Different Dysphorias

[Unlabeled]

One of the better things about the internet has been enabling people who feel unique, alone, or isolated to get online and realize they aren't unique or alone. As a kind of self-help therapeutic tool the internet is perhaps the best human invention of all time. Now we can google our thing and instantly realize there's thousands of others just like us.

I've always viewed the "X-Men" superhero comics and movies as a metaphor for people who feel isolated alone. And when the first movie had the scene where Prof. Xavier is using Cerebro with Wolverine and shows him humanity on a global scale saying, "The white dots are humans. The red dots are mutants. So you see, you're not as alone a syou thought" That metaphor was confirmed. In the real world (sigh hehe) we don't have Cerebro, but we do have the internet. :)

[pitchblackonyx]

My mom always tells me to use the stain cleaner and I think, why? The water practically eliminates it. Unless it's deep in the fabric. I definitely don't change very often because of my super bladder, which I know is a bad thing. I put off washing due to dysphoria and later I even go, oh well, I couldn't clean off the entire thing, whatever. For some reason, even with wings, it moves too much. I totally do this wrong.

two pairs of underwer, one to have the pad attach the other ot hold the first in palce. alternatively to second pair, maybe some undershort s or similir

should als o have explained the poin t of my post about poor Unulckly above because i forgot to. point was thought exercies to provok thought about whta it is that makes a person.

i could have carried on with the nasty kidnnappy peopl attemping to remove Unluky's left kidney and being resciued at htat momet and reciving emergency medicl care inclugind blood transfusion (blood used from many people of different sexes) and a kidney transplant (donor kindey from a person of a different sex to Unlucky). now that Unluckys' body has more than one chomosomal arrangement in it, how many pepl eis Unlucky? now that Uluck;ys has no genitals nad does have chromosomes from different sexes, is Unlkucy now intersex? or the same person as before with (considerably) more medical issues?

[noparlpf]

Raises an interesting question how we are our brains independent of the rest of our bodies. Ever since I learned of it as a reality and not horror movie plot, I've wondered what happens if you transplant a person's head onto another person's body? Or just the brain?

They've successfully transplanted dog and Rheese's monkies heads from one to another (dog to dog, monkey to monkey, not the other way hehe) as far back as the 70s. But what if you only 'swapped' brains? Wouldn't that be a kind of virtual immortality? When you get old and your body begins failing, just swap the brain for a new younger body. Either grown ala the avatars in "Avatar" or you know the other more Franensteinian way, "Are you done using that? Can I have it?" :)

In which case, are individuals still individuals in completely different bodies?

Judaism says our souls are in our blood. Hence the dietary prohibitions against eating blood. Obviouisly that's wrong, just as with our thoughts and emotions come from our heart. But how would we as a people, society, and culture regard each other in totally different bodies? "Son! Son! It's Daddy! I know I"m in the body of a twenty-five year old, but it's still me!" Are we prepared for that?

Or what if instead of an organic flesh and blood body our brains are put into an artificial body liuke an android? Have artifical organs and limbs already, full body is the logical progression. If aritifical limbs and organs come to work even etter than the originals, isn't it likely that at some point people will opt (athletes, etc.) for artifical 'superior performing' bodies?

Well, in the examples where they've managed to sew heads onto other bodies, they couldn't connect the foreign brains to the host bodies' nervous systems. They just managed to connect enough blood vessels to act as life support. If you take the head off one dog and put another dog's head on the body, you'll still just have a quadriplegic dog. It can't experience any sensation from the body.

Maybe one day we'll be able to connect nerves well enough to manage something like that properly, which should be interesting (from a neurobio perspective anyway). I suspect the results would be similar to phantom limbs or body dysphoria, because the brain's map of the body in the somatosensory cortex won't quite match what's physically there and will have confusing signals it's not quite wired to receive coming in.

As for swapping brains into new bodies, even though the brain is where the personality is, it's still a lump of meat and wears out in around a hundred years. One of my neurobio professors in college was doing research on Alzheimer's and neuron aging, but we're a long way from figuring out how to cure old age.

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to android bodies. I just had wrist surgery and even though I know that it's healing amazingly (the surgeon and PA were both very impressed by my progress at my five-month checkup a few weeks ago) it's hard not to be impatient. I'd rather just replace defective body parts with better parts instead. Modern organ and limb prostheses are coming along pretty well but they're not quite up to the sci-fi level I expect yet. We're still a very long way from being able to digitise a brain. I just hope they manage direct neural-to-computer connections in my lifetime so we can have full-immersion VR by the time my body is too old to do real-world stuff.

[Heart]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

[Unlabeled]

Raises an interesting question how we are our brains independent of the rest of our bodies. Ever since I learned of it as a reality and not horror movie plot, I've wondered what happens if you transplant a person's head onto another person's body? Or just the brain?

They've successfully transplanted dog and Rheese's monkies heads from one to another (dog to dog, monkey to monkey, not the other way hehe) as far back as the 70s. But what if you only 'swapped' brains? Wouldn't that be a kind of virtual immortality? When you get old and your body begins failing, just swap the brain for a new younger body. Either grown ala the avatars in "Avatar" or you know the other more Franensteinian way, "Are you done using that? Can I have it?" :)

In which case, are individuals still individuals in completely different bodies?

Judaism says our souls are in our blood. Hence the dietary prohibitions against eating blood. Obviouisly that's wrong, just as with our thoughts and emotions come from our heart. But how would we as a people, society, and culture regard each other in totally different bodies? "Son! Son! It's Daddy! I know I"m in the body of a twenty-five year old, but it's still me!" Are we prepared for that?

Or what if instead of an organic flesh and blood body our brains are put into an artificial body liuke an android? Have artifical organs and limbs already, full body is the logical progression. If aritifical limbs and organs come to work even etter than the originals, isn't it likely that at some point people will opt (athletes, etc.) for artifical 'superior performing' bodies?

Well, in the examples where they've managed to sew heads onto other bodies, they couldn't connect the foreign brains to the host bodies' nervous systems. They just managed to connect enough blood vessels to act as life support. If you take the head off one dog and put another dog's head on the body, you'll still just have a quadriplegic dog. It can't experience any sensation from the body.

Maybe one day we'll be able to connect nerves well enough to manage something like that properly, which should be interesting (from a neurobio perspective anyway). I suspect the results would be similar to phantom limbs or body dysphoria, because the brain's map of the body in the somatosensory cortex won't quite match what's physically there and will have confusing signals it's not quite wired to receive coming in.

As for swapping brains into new bodies, even though the brain is where the personality is, it's still a lump of meat and wears out in around a hundred years. One of my neurobio professors in college was doing research on Alzheimer's and neuron aging, but we're a long way from figuring out how to cure old age.

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to android bodies. I just had wrist surgery and even though I know that it's healing amazingly (the surgeon and PA were both very impressed by my progress at my five-month checkup a few weeks ago) it's hard not to be impatient. I'd rather just replace defective body parts with better parts instead. Modern organ and limb prostheses are coming along pretty well but they're not quite up to the sci-fi level I expect yet. We're still a very long way from being able to digitise a brain. I just hope they manage direct neural-to-computer connections in my lifetime so we can have full-immersion VR by the time my body is too old to do real-world stuff.

Think short of an outright break in alaw of physics or other science, if you can imagine it, it's only a matter of time before someone makes it a reality.

H.G. Wells imagined atomic weapons in a novel from 1914 think it was. About 30 years later it was reality.

[Unlabeled]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

[Heart]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

Wow, thanks! You have timed that well, I just finished re-reading Dune and was looking for another good book :D

[nerdperson777]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

I've been totally thinking to replace my left leg. My kneecap and ankle are a bit faulty, gimme that boy leg! I recall a friend sending me a pic of a Tumblr post of people customizing body parts of the male and female symbols commonly found on bathroom doors. First reply was about someone claiming that they were the blue man with a pink leg. Second reply was a drawing that someone imagined with a huge manly guy with a huge girl leg wearing tights and high heels. Then sometime later a comic type thing of a guy with a female hand struggling to not to do the feminine ("whatever" hand wave?) and his hands turned pretty with sparkles.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

Wow, thanks! You have timed that well, I just finished re-reading Dune and was looking for another good book :D

I also liked Eternity and Legacy, but Eon was just the best. I liked his Darwin's Radio series very much, too.

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

John Varley's Steel Beach wasn't terrible, but I *really* liked Titan, Wizard and Demon. The Gaby and Cirroco Jones characters are great!

[SignerJ]

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

I second The Left Hand of Darkness. It's pretty great.

A shame that LeGuin didn't use gender-neutral pronouns in the book, though. The constant usage of "he/him/his" always bugs me.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

I second The Left Hand of Darkness. It's pretty great.

A shame that LeGuin didn't use gender-neutral pronouns in the book, though. The constant usage of "he/him/his" always bugs me.

It did me, too. But I kinda understand, and I think she did so out of a sense of not going too far against the mores of the era in which it was written. Her doing that did put off some feminists of the time, who liked the fiction of Joanna Russ somewhat better. But the male dominated sci-fi fandom sure didn't! OMG, you can't believe the stir When It Changed and The Female Man caused. She got accused of being an angry feminist, which at the time was the way that feminists were marginalized and held up to contempt.

Never mind that works like Harlan Ellison's Dangerous Visions was far more subversive, the gender wars were in full swing back then. Hard to believe we were once that way as a society.

[Heart]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

Wow, thanks! You have timed that well, I just finished re-reading Dune and was looking for another good book :D

I also liked Eternity and Legacy, but Eon was just the best. I liked his Darwin's Radio series very much, too.

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

John Varley's Steel Beach wasn't terrible, but I *really* liked Titan, Wizard and Demon. The Gaby and Cirroco Jones characters are great!

*takes copious amounts of notes*

THANKS! :D

Another gender-bending suggestion for anyone who likes sci-fi and/or fantasy: Stone, by Adam Roberts. It's written in first person, so not so many pronoun issues, and I really enjoyed how you aren't told the gender or sex of the main character for the first while. The blurb uses pronouns, but the book doesn't ;) at least, no one really uses pronouns in the book to my memory; it's been years since I read this book, and I really need to dig it back up and read it again, I remember it feeling so good to read a book with gender-fluid themes

(or at least... sex-fluid?).

Spoiler for details that might spoil the plot ;)

Edited August 2, 2015 by Heart
spoilers aren't much use unless they work :P

[Unlabeled]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

Wow, thanks! You have timed that well, I just finished re-reading Dune and was looking for another good book :D

I also liked Eternity and Legacy, but Eon was just the best. I liked his Darwin's Radio series very much, too.

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

John Varley's Steel Beach wasn't terrible, but I *really* liked Titan, Wizard and Demon. The Gaby and Cirroco Jones characters are great!

(googles) "Legacy?" Didn't know there was a third entry. Do now. Thanks. :) Last time I read anything about Eon was on some fan site everyone wanting a movie version. Consensus being now that CGI's advanced to where it has, a visual representation of some of the Way geometry and characters would be possible. I'd settle for an animated version like "Final Fanasy: Spirits Within" best human animated version I've seen yet and that was 15 year old tech.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

Wow, thanks! You have timed that well, I just finished re-reading Dune and was looking for another good book :D

I also liked Eternity and Legacy, but Eon was just the best. I liked his Darwin's Radio series very much, too.

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

John Varley's Steel Beach wasn't terrible, but I *really* liked Titan, Wizard and Demon. The Gaby and Cirroco Jones characters are great!

*takes copious amounts of notes*

THANKS! :D

Another gender-bending suggestion for anyone who likes sci-fi and/or fantasy: Stone, by Adam Roberts. It's written in first person, so not so many pronoun issues, and I really enjoyed how you aren't told the gender or sex of the main character for the first while. The blurb uses pronouns, but the book doesn't ;) at least, no one really uses pronouns in the book to my memory; it's been years since I read this book, and I really need to dig it back up and read it again, I remember it feeling so good to read a book with gender-fluid themes

(or at least... sex-fluid?).

Spoiler for details that might spoil the plot ;)

For all us bigender and genderfluid people, being able to swap out body components on a thought would be kinda a dream come true... *sigh*

I don't even care all that much about the rest of the implications. Just give me the ability to have a male body one day, a female one the next, and a neutral one other days, and I would be through the roof :P

You might enjoy "Eon" by Greg Bear, huge part of the story though absent the sexual orientation or related aspects. If you like 'realistic' sci-fi. :)

Wow, thanks! You have timed that well, I just finished re-reading Dune and was looking for another good book :D

I also liked Eternity and Legacy, but Eon was just the best. I liked his Darwin's Radio series very much, too.

But if you're looking for a genderfluid tie-in, a must read is Usula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

John Varley's Steel Beach wasn't terrible, but I *really* liked Titan, Wizard and Demon. The Gaby and Cirroco Jones characters are great!

*takes copious amounts of notes*

THANKS! :D

Another gender-bending suggestion for anyone who likes sci-fi and/or fantasy: Stone, by Adam Roberts. It's written in first person, so not so many pronoun issues, and I really enjoyed how you aren't told the gender or sex of the main character for the first while. The blurb uses pronouns, but the book doesn't ;) at least, no one really uses pronouns in the book to my memory; it's been years since I read this book, and I really need to dig it back up and read it again, I remember it feeling so good to read a book with gender-fluid themes

(or at least... sex-fluid?).

Spoiler for details that might spoil the plot ;)

Thanks for the tip, Heart! I'll look for it :::::writing down title/author in notebook:::: And don't worry about spoilers, I'm pretty much immune to them. Great Sci-fi is like a fine wine-- the spoilers are irrelevant because you *experience* it by consuming it yourself. One develops an empathy and affinity for the characters that no spoiler could ever .... spoil.

That said, I don't think it would be a spoiler to tell you that I'd bet you'll simply ADORE the Titanides in the first Gaea novel, Titan. :)

[SignerJ]

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering, is it normal for the severity of someone's disphoria to vary from day to day?

[noparlpf]

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering, is it normal for the severity of someone's disphoria to vary from day to day?

Seems like it is.

[nerdperson777]

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering, is it normal for the severity of someone's disphoria to vary from day to day?

Absolutely! Sometimes areas of your body are more prominent on one day more than the other. For a DFAB like me, I feel more dysphoric if my chest doesn't feel flat enough or if I'm having bottom problems. I have a friend who has been getting her face lasered to destroy her facial hair and after a day she said that her upper lip was really dark, putting her dysphoria on high since she requires several treatments to get to a comfortable position. As for social dysphoria, maybe something one did made them pass less if they're trying to present as a binary gender. I can't remember the other dysphoria categories right now, hmm..

[Heart]

Thanks for the tip, Heart! I'll look for it :::::writing down title/author in notebook:::: And don't worry about spoilers, I'm pretty much immune to them. Great Sci-fi is like a fine wine-- the spoilers are irrelevant because you *experience* it by consuming it yourself. One develops an empathy and affinity for the characters that no spoiler could ever .... spoil.

That said, I don't think it would be a spoiler to tell you that I'd bet you'll simply ADORE the Titanides in the first Gaea novel, Titan. :)

*gets out my own notepad and pencil*

And you're right; books ARE like a fine wine. I feel similarly, but I know others are sensitive to spoilers, so I am always careful anyway ;)

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering, is it normal for the severity of someone's disphoria to vary from day to day?

Mine certainly does, dramatically. I mean, being genderfluid makes that statement a bit obvious, but even within one gender it will fluctuate. Sometimes, in my more male states, the gender won't change, but certain situations will trigger the dysphoria more than others. Like being hit on by a straight guy. Or being hit on by a gay guy; that's like anti-dysphoria ;)

Some people seem to experience constant levels of dysphoria, but from a completely anecdotal viewpoint, the majority of people I've talked with have fluctuating levels.

Also, this is probably more on topic than books, if we think about it :P Though books are not off topic, since this is supposed to be everything about dysphoria, including the casual :)

Edited August 3, 2015 by Heart

[butterflydreams]

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering, is it normal for the severity of someone's disphoria to vary from day to day?

Mine certainly does, dramatically. I mean, being genderfluid makes that statement a bit obvious, but even within one gender it will fluctuate. Sometimes, in my more male states, the gender won't change, but certain situations will trigger the dysphoria more than others. Like being hit on by a straight guy. Or being hit on by a gay guy; that's like anti-dysphoria ;)

Huh...I never considered what fluctuating dysphoria would be like as a genderfluid person. That's interesting. I got hit on by a gay guy once like 3 years ago. I didn't realize what had happened for almost 24 hours :P but it's not like I'm ace or anything ;)

Have you ever been inside a hydro plant? Inside the turbine room? Usually it's this big open room. Bigger than a high school gymnasium in many cases, but there doesn't seem to be much in it. On the floor are the turbines, but only a small portion of them actually sticks out above the floor. That's it. But let me tell you, everywhere you walk in that room...on the stairs, the catwalks, literally everything is vibrating. It's not overtly loud, or strong, and if you're there for more than 10-15 minutes, you might stop noticing it, or at least get used to it. But it's all around you. And when you walk back outside, the sudden contrast of quiet and lack of vibration makes you feel grounded and amazing for a brief moment before you adjust to the regular world outside again.

I always hesitate to call my experience dysphoria, but if I had to describe it, that's how I'd describe it. So I guess it doesn't fluctuate much for me. It's this constant droning that never seems to stop, and I got incredibly used to it, even if it was slowly vibrating me to pieces (see: vibration harmonics). Until one day I stepped outside the turbine room for a brief moment.

[butterflydreams]

Semi-followup question: what of dysphoria denial?

[Kappamaki]

Semi-followup question: what of dysphoria denial?

I mean, it's possible that I did this for a decade just because I didn't recognize anything as a legitimate reflection of my identity and didn't have the language to call it 'dysphoria' anyways.

When I first called a moment 'gender dysphoria' and mentally recognizing it as such, it was still over half a year before I would first let myself ID as trans. It was sort of a weird "Huh, that happened, and it felt super wrong, and it seems like gender dysphoria from what I hear from trans people, but cis people don't get that and I'm cis even though I'd ideally not be, but I am and it can't be helped" moment. In the oncoming months I began to recognize bouts of gender dysphoria as a recurring thing, but still didn't think I could let myself be trans. It was only after I first ID'd as trans that I recognized the background noise variety of dysphoria lasting for years and years as such and acknowledged a lot of my habits and personality as reactions to that.

[nerdperson777]

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering, is it normal for the severity of someone's disphoria to vary from day to day?

Mine certainly does, dramatically. I mean, being genderfluid makes that statement a bit obvious, but even within one gender it will fluctuate. Sometimes, in my more male states, the gender won't change, but certain situations will trigger the dysphoria more than others. Like being hit on by a straight guy. Or being hit on by a gay guy; that's like anti-dysphoria ;)

Huh...I never considered what fluctuating dysphoria would be like as a genderfluid person. That's interesting. I got hit on by a gay guy once like 3 years ago. I didn't realize what had happened for almost 24 hours :P but it's not like I'm ace or anything ;)

Have you ever been inside a hydro plant? Inside the turbine room? Usually it's this big open room. Bigger than a high school gymnasium in many cases, but there doesn't seem to be much in it. On the floor are the turbines, but only a small portion of them actually sticks out above the floor. That's it. But let me tell you, everywhere you walk in that room...on the stairs, the catwalks, literally everything is vibrating. It's not overtly loud, or strong, and if you're there for more than 10-15 minutes, you might stop noticing it, or at least get used to it. But it's all around you. And when you walk back outside, the sudden contrast of quiet and lack of vibration makes you feel grounded and amazing for a brief moment before you adjust to the regular world outside again.

I always hesitate to call my experience dysphoria, but if I had to describe it, that's how I'd describe it. So I guess it doesn't fluctuate much for me. It's this constant droning that never seems to stop, and I got incredibly used to it, even if it was slowly vibrating me to pieces (see: vibration harmonics). Until one day I stepped outside the turbine room for a brief moment.

Hadley, this isn't Heart's intro thread! No, jk you can talk about that. :D

I guess for a while I did just have to get used to it. I would I say I was stuck in that room you described for a while. The sound won't go away no much how I wish for it. What's the point? Then finding the exit door and realizing that a life like that is so much better. But that room always drags you back in until you proactively do something about it. When I discovered that exit door, I kept striving to get to the outside of it and starting to hate the room sound more and more, even though it didn't bother me for the longest time.

Semi-followup question: what of dysphoria denial?

I guess that for me is when people ask me if I hate something, and I refuse to admit it? As one who always thinks of others before my own, I tend to say whatever makes another happy and not disappoint them. Since I was never really open about my dysphoria, I didn't really tell much of anyone about it. The most detailed I never got was probably commenting on these forums. I don't even "talk" about it since I don't even like thinking about certain descriptions of it.

[butterflydreams]

It was sort of a weird "Huh, that happened, and it felt super wrong, and it seems like gender dysphoria from what I hear from trans people, but cis people don't get that and I'm cis even though I'd ideally not be, but I am and it can't be helped" moment.

Oof, this. Especially the "can't be helped" part. At least you seemed to have had a good idea of what trans people were. All I "knew" was that trans women were just super, super gay And I was "definitely" attracted to women (perpetually pending proof). Oh, what's that? You spent inordinate amounts of time thinking that if you just wished hard enough, you'd become a girl? Pfft, everyone does that. It's a fetish thing.

Hehehe, I am a real piece of work.

[Heart]

Semi-followup question: what of dysphoria denial?

Yup. I used to be really good at that! Like, A+.

Then some little voice in my head asked "What if... what if that's what this is?" And I said "shut up."

And then... a damn broke.

And now I forget how to deny it. I can't hold back the flood. I used to be able to take a day off, say "oh, it's just really bad period cramps" (because "period cramps" can totally come at any time of the month...and not just be a localised physical pain... right?) and curl up in the foetal position for a day until the worst passed, then put on baggy clothes and get on with my life. But now, now things are different. The lion refuses to go back into its cage. Now, I can't just tell myself it's period cramps any more, I know I'm lieing to myself and that voice in my head refuses to take it. So I'm still finding new ways of coping with it, and even maybe celebrating it to a certain extent. I mean, who else can claim to have such variety in their gender? Like, seriously. I get to be different genders in different weeks and months. Very few other people get the chance to experience that! I mean, cross dressers still dress in drag, but man. I get to be drag. How cool is that? I am a body with breasts and a vagina some times. And I look good in dresses. And other times, I am a person who was supposed to have a flat chest. And I look danged good in a vest and binder. But out of place in a dress. Because that was so "last gender swing". And sometimes? Sometimes I'm equally at home in both. Because I'm just awesome like that. Never a dull moment.

But yeah. I was a dysphoria denial ninja at one point. Like, the mental gymnastics and double think that was going on there was remarkable. Big Brother convincing its population that 2+2=5? Amateur play. I was convincing myself that +2 was actually -2. My life was 1984 in a nutshell, applied to gender.

And then one day a crack appeared, and even if I ever wanted to go back, I don't think I ever could :P

[nerdperson777]

Yeah, considering how much I was bullied when I was younger, I was convinced someone painted my underwear red when I wasn't looking, no matter how improbable that sounded. And then later it had to be the truth. I didn't like that.

The other day I thought, hmm..this thing has no wings......YES! (That kind normally has wings.)

[Densoro]

Semi-followup question: what of dysphoria denial?

For me, it wasn't anything as overt as denial. I just always over-estimate the things that other people experience. I was eventually able to find peace with my body, whereas the trans people I was most familiar with needed surgery. I figured, if I didn't have to go that far, I couldn't say I was dealing with the same thing they were.

...I'm really worried about insulting people by hopping onto their wagon :'D

But then I realized that I'm only really comfortable with my body when I keep it to myself. The pieces, the hair and whatever lose their gendered meaning and I can just see this body as one point in a continuum of meat frames. But the idea of showing or using my bare body in somebody else's presence makes me squeamish, because of their reaction or relationship to it. For example, I've stopped going around the house shirtless, because #freethenipple type stuff made me more conscious of the double-standard and I don't like being associated with it. Plus, even if I'm comfortable with my body hair, that doesn't mean anybody else has to be. So I keep it covered out of courtesy.

It's things like that which very recently made me conscious of my dysphoria...along with maybe catching a bit of gender-policing over the years haha...

[AshenSilence]

I've felt dysphoria for as long as I can remember -- I've always acted masculine, but from a young age my parents tried to discourage it, buying me dresses and barbies and all sorts of "girls toys." I began to realise that the way I was acting was somehow wrong, that it made my parents upset.

From then on I've made a huge effort to act like a girl, wear "girly" clothes, talk about celebrities, boys, fashion and all that jazz. I always felt like I was a fake. I could never relate to any on the girls my age and because of that I've had social anxiety for a long time now...

...Until I stumbled upon a post on tumblr talking about preferred pronouns. It made me stop and think for a while because I've never felt comfortable being referred to as a she, and the thought of being referred to as a he filled me with such an unbelievably happy feeling I had to stop and mull over my thoughts for a while. Since finding out about the whole trans community I've decided to act more like myself. I've started wearing pants and baggy tops, stopped censoring my actions, and even tried to get my hair cut into a short boyish hairstyle (Though when I say "short boyish hairstyle" my parents somehow hear "shoulder length feminine cut")

My family still tries to get me to act more feminine, and that's resulted in all this deep anger whenever I talk to them that I try and control because I know they don't mean to hurt me, but it all just explodes and I've started pushing them away. It makes me sad that my happiness means that it's harder to get along with my family. Sometimes I feel like a bad person for taking that mother/daughter relationship away from my mum, especially because I'm asexual - whenever my mum talkes about crushes or boys it just makes me feel really awkward - not just because she's my mum and it's embarassing, but because anything more than hugging seriously grosses my out. (My dad says I stopped letting them kiss me on the cheek/forehead when I was about three years old xD)

So. That's my experience with dysphoria.

[SignerJ]

It was sort of a weird "Huh, that happened, and it felt super wrong, and it seems like gender dysphoria from what I hear from trans people, but cis people don't get that and I'm cis even though I'd ideally not be, but I am and it can't be helped" moment.

Oof, this. Especially the "can't be helped" part. At least you seemed to have had a good idea of what trans people were. All I "knew" was that trans women were just super, super gay And I was "definitely" attracted to women (perpetually pending proof). Oh, what's that? You spent inordinate amounts of time thinking that if you just wished hard enough, you'd become a girl? Pfft, everyone does that. It's a fetish thing.

Hehehe, I am a real piece of work.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's felt these ways. :)

I also often worry that I'm just a cis person merely fooling myself into thinking that I'm trans and somehow I'll end up de-legitimizing other people's experiences. Logically I know it's not true, but logic seems to only goes so far. <_<

[Valiant]

I'm hesitant to define what discomfort I experience as dysphoria. Whether this is because it would make the dysphoria valid, and therefore make me more susceptible to its impact on my wellbeing, I don't know. What I do know is that the feelings I do have aren't typical for someone of my sex configuration.

Separating insecurity about my body weight, about my bodily functions unrelated to reproductive organs and insecurity regarding my gender identity and the body I have is difficult and often ends in more stress than I can tolerate, so I disconnect from those feelings. Right now I can say with confidence that I do not appreciate the mammary tissue on my chest, and would very much prefer that they had never developed. I wear baggy clothes both to better hide my chest and to better hide my hips. Even before realising I was trans, I was uncomfortable with my chest. Binding eases this sense of disgust, but I'm all too aware binding doesn't work as well with my body as it does with others.

My hips are another source of discomfort, but only when I look at them or touch them when showering. Otherwise I tend to avoid looking at or touching my hips as they seem quite prominent even in baggy clothes. I have no use for wide hips, I don't ever want to birth children and the idea of having a parasite inside my body for nine or so months is horrifying. That's another thing, children. The expectation that I, as someone in possession of particular organs should bring forth children into this world is disturbing. I do not want biological children, nor do I wish to carry any. Thinking of the possibility that my body could carry a child brings upon a deep seated sense of dread. I don't think I would come out of that experience with anything other than negative feelings.

Most of my "dysphoria" is felt around social settings, though I don't know if that's the depression, anxiety or dysphoria talking... knowing my luck, it's probably all three vying for front row tickets to the train wreck that I am when talking to other people in situations where I am already uncomfortable. It makes me feel really uneasy just typing it out, so for now I'll leave my post as is.

[Light02]

I've never actually had any dysphoria because of my hips but that's because I don't even know what having wide hips or wide shoulders means. I just see no difference in male and female hips and shoulders. I guess I'm blind when it comes to that, lol.