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Different Dysphorias


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I just love it when a program finally manages to compile without errors <3 ;)

If you want there to be someone out there for you, then it'll take a good amount of looking. It always does. But, Hadley, you're such an awesome person that I feel like there just has to be some lucky person out there who will get the chance to be a partner that you deserve. There's no way to say how a relationship will go before giving it a shot, but you already know this.

Since yesterday, I hate my body even more.

I'm sorry to hear that :(

Some internet cake to help. We're all here for you :cake:

g_1247494022cake_is_awesome_11.jpg

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butterflydreams

Aww, thanks, Heart! I just had some experiences recently that really made me think about how easily dysphoria could manifest for me with a partner, especially if I just started following old patterns and paradigms.

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Here's one of mine:

Being put in very gendered situations (like "boys in this line, girls over there"), being called cute when I'm dressing in a masculine way, and being ma'amed. Also when my men's fit clothing don't fit properly, because of boob or whatever.

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I only know two kinds of disphoria:

1. My body.

Only if I look into the mirror: my hips. I'm not really built like a "real" woman, small breasts, slender but short. However, I'm still biologically female, so my hips have some kind of curve. And that is what really bugs me. Concerning my breast - if I feel like it, I just put on a sports bra. It really works. Furthermore, my lower part is something I'm even ashamed of. Especially on those wonderful days every month - makes me feel really bad. I'm just not supposed to have it, I probably won't get any children and my body is not made for giving birth. I mean, that's the purpose of women having it, right? It and me - we don't belong together. I'm on my way to a better relationship with my body, but I don't know if I can ever accept this part of it.

2. How others treat me.

I realized it's not as bad as I first thought it would be. "Privileges" like "ladies first" are perfectly fine by me. I still appreciate it, I know it's meant in a polite way. My "natural" pronouns don't affect me, I'm used to them. It would be weird if someone called me "he" or "them" (in German there's a neutral pronoun, but you only use it for animals and things, so it's kinda derogatory). However, some things that piss me off are 1. calling me a woman (girl is okay, but woman is a no go! I feel very uncomfortable with it) 2. pigeon-holing me with women in general (I'm sure no one really likes that anyways. A teacher did that once - "You've forgotten your password; figures! Women." and I thought I'd explode. I'm not a woman!!)

aaaand 3:

Being put in very gendered situations (like "boys in this line, girls over there")

although it happens that I don't care. Depends, I guess.

I have to add that I don't feel disphoria all the time. It just comes and goes. A few things stay though - my hips for example (I don't know why they're my biggest problem!!)

Wow, writing all of this down is refreshing in some way.

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I'm a 17 year old female, but sometimes (i mean quite a lot actually), I don't feel all that female... However I've been 'blessed' with wide hips, unmissable curves... and a rather large set of boobs.

From a young age I have dressed in boys clothes, had "boyish" qualities and I'm sick to death of hearing phrases like "be more ladylike" or "that's not what girls do". Some days I practically identify as a boy, those days I find my boobs super super triggering. I cover up ALL the time, and phrases from family and friends, particularly my nan, who always points out that she'll "never understand why i hid that gorgeous figure" tear me up because I hate the way I am. Makeup is another thing, MAKEUP IS GENDERLESS and i don't understand why people can't understand that, some days I wear makeup on a more boy day THIS IS FINE some days i don't wear makeup THIS IS FINE.

Overall i'm just really struggling with my body and the way I present myself right now and it's starting to really get to me and I don't know what to do:////

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However I've been 'blessed' with wide hips, unmissable curves... and a rather large set of boobs.

Feel free to PM me on clothing. I wrote a really large post on it some time ago, I'd just have to look for it and copy.

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However I've been 'blessed' with wide hips, unmissable curves... and a rather large set of boobs.

Feel free to PM me on clothing. I wrote a really large post on it some time ago, I'd just have to look for it and copy.

I'd like that

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I only know two kinds of disphoria:

1. My body.

Only if I look into the mirror: my hips. I'm not really built like a "real" woman, small breasts, slender but short. However, I'm still biologically female, so my hips have some kind of curve. And that is what really bugs me. Concerning my breast - if I feel like it, I just put on a sports bra. It really works. Furthermore, my lower part is something I'm even ashamed of. Especially on those wonderful days every month - makes me feel really bad. I'm just not supposed to have it, I probably won't get any children and my body is not made for giving birth. I mean, that's the purpose of women having it, right? It and me - we don't belong together. I'm on my way to a better relationship with my body, but I don't know if I can ever accept this part of it.

2. How others treat me.

I realized it's not as bad as I first thought it would be. "Privileges" like "ladies first" are perfectly fine by me. I still appreciate it, I know it's meant in a polite way. My "natural" pronouns don't affect me, I'm used to them. It would be weird if someone called me "he" or "them" (in German there's a neutral pronoun, but you only use it for animals and things, so it's kinda derogatory). However, some things that piss me off are 1. calling me a woman (girl is okay, but woman is a no go! I feel very uncomfortable with it) 2. pigeon-holing me with women in general (I'm sure no one really likes that anyways. A teacher did that once - "You've forgotten your password; figures! Women." and I thought I'd explode. I'm not a woman!!)

aaaand 3:

Being put in very gendered situations (like "boys in this line, girls over there")

although it happens that I don't care. Depends, I guess.

I have to add that I don't feel disphoria all the time. It just comes and goes. A few things stay though - my hips for example (I don't know why they're my biggest problem!!)

Wow, writing all of this down is refreshing in some way.

I'm a 17 year old female, but sometimes (i mean quite a lot actually), I don't feel all that female... However I've been 'blessed' with wide hips, unmissable curves... and a rather large set of boobs.

From a young age I have dressed in boys clothes, had "boyish" qualities and I'm sick to death of hearing phrases like "be more ladylike" or "that's not what girls do". Some days I practically identify as a boy, those days I find my boobs super super triggering. I cover up ALL the time, and phrases from family and friends, particularly my nan, who always points out that she'll "never understand why i hid that gorgeous figure" tear me up because I hate the way I am. Makeup is another thing, MAKEUP IS GENDERLESS and i don't understand why people can't understand that, some days I wear makeup on a more boy day THIS IS FINE some days i don't wear makeup THIS IS FINE.

Overall i'm just really struggling with my body and the way I present myself right now and it's starting to really get to me and I don't know what to do:////

For what it's worth, you're already a mile and a half ahead of most people in realising that make up is not inherently gendered. Nothing is inherently gendered. If you're a boy and own clothes, then those clothes are a boy's clothes by default, because you own them and you're a boy, even if it's a bright pink dress ;)

And, like both of you, my hips cause problems. I don't get dysphoric about them directly, but man are they annoying when all I want to do is go out and wear men's clothing from the men's department. NONE OF THE THINGS WILL FIT OVER MY HIPS! And hips are particularly annoying, because they're in the middle of the body, so they affect how shirts and pants fit. And at least with the chest, I can bind and sorta mostly fix that one well enough for the clothing I want to fit, but hips are harder <_< I have no good suggestions for that, I'm still working on it myself.

*sighs and whistfully thinks of one day finding a dapper suite that would actually fit me, with a vest and everything, and super formal, because dang people of all genders look just so FINE in suites!*

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For what it's worth, you're already a mile and a half ahead of most people in realising that make up is not inherently gendered. Nothing is inherently gendered. If you're a boy and own clothes, then those clothes are a boy's clothes by default, because you own them and you're a boy, even if it's a bright pink dress ;)

And, like both of you, my hips cause problems. I don't get dysphoric about them directly, but man are they annoying when all I want to do is go out and wear men's clothing from the men's department. NONE OF THE THINGS WILL FIT OVER MY HIPS! And hips are particularly annoying, because they're in the middle of the body, so they affect how shirts and pants fit. And at least with the chest, I can bind and sorta mostly fix that one well enough for the clothing I want to fit, but hips are harder <_< I have no good suggestions for that, I'm still working on it myself.

*sighs and whistfully thinks of one day finding a dapper suite that would actually fit me, with a vest and everything, and super formal, because dang people of all genders look just so FINE in suites!*

I have the hips problem too... It's a tricky one. I'm thin and wear xs or s tops, but bottoms - m. Like, realy, most of my body mass is in hips and tights!

I have found straight leg cut of trousers to work. I have only trousers form women's department, but it's possible to find ones that have a pretty gender neutral look. These are the ones that look like the most classic jeans, for example. I have no idea about other kinds of trousers thoguh. Loose fit is definitely a not good idea, a tight one - not good either. I have only a pair of chinos that I like but look hippy, so not to the topic. And some shorts.

The way a person walks and stands makes a big difference too. If you spread your legs wide and generally keep them vertical on their axes, and keep the path of the hips stable, but let legs wander, and walk on two diffenrent paths for the two legs, slouching a bit, the figure loks less hippy than when you walk on one like and turn your hips a lot while walking, and keep the legs together.

And on the topic of suits, I have one from the women's department, and it looks just clasic and is cut for a more hourglassy figure (a simple black/dark grey suit), but it's a matter of looking for it for more than a year. Lots of women's clothing seems too feminine, but if you look for what you want long enough, it's possible to find items that 1. look pretty gender neutral and classic 2. fit the figure, unlike men's clothing most of which is made for people with narrower hips and broader shoulders.

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I recently realized that while she pronouns don't bother me, people describing me with words like "girl", "woman", "girlfriend", "future wife", "future mother", etc. make me very uncomfortable.

This is my exact situation, only with "boy," "boyfriend," "future husband," "future father," etc. Or when people make a generalization about boys and say "your kind." It has to be one my biggest sources of dysphoria.

Yeah, once I was getting a ride from school to the airport to go home early after finals, and the person who was in the vehicle with me was on my same flight so I just talked to her for a bit. When we were waiting for our flight, she called her friend and I heard something about scaring away her future husband. Then I thought, well okay, that's awkward. I'll go away now.

I'm not sure if I asked this somewhere on the forum before but what about when friends joke around and say "I want to have your babies."

"I want to have your babies."

Oh wow, would I have some very select semi-snarky responses to that one. Anyone close to me would understand the remarks, but people on this forum don't know me that well, so I'll just leave it as... oh, I would know just what to say to that one. :)

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J. van Deijck

I just love it when a program finally manages to compile without errors <3 ;)

If you want there to be someone out there for you, then it'll take a good amount of looking. It always does. But, Hadley, you're such an awesome person that I feel like there just has to be some lucky person out there who will get the chance to be a partner that you deserve. There's no way to say how a relationship will go before giving it a shot, but you already know this.

Since yesterday, I hate my body even more.

I'm sorry to hear that :(

Some internet cake to help. We're all here for you :cake:

g_1247494022cake_is_awesome_11.jpg

Aww thank you <3

The thing that annoys me the most is that even if I wear all male clothes, just like today, there's always someone who calls me "that woman". What the hell am I doing wrong?

Periods are a separate thing, I want to get rid of them.

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butterflydreams

For what it's worth, you're already a mile and a half ahead of most people in realising that make up is not inherently gendered. Nothing is inherently gendered. If you're a boy and own clothes, then those clothes are a boy's clothes by default, because you own them and you're a boy, even if it's a bright pink dress ;)

Of course this is true, but know that it's an uphill battle if you want to take that attitude to its logical conclusion. I also always tell people, "you see all those guys on the tv news? They're covered in makeup. Set lights make you look really unnatural if you don't have at least some makeup on. You wanna look like Nixon in the Kennedy/Nixon televised presidential debate?"

I know from experience if you're AMAB and you go out wearing a dress, or a skirt, you are going to take shit for it. Not saying it's right, but it's most likely gonna happen. If you want to go out there and insist "makeup isn't gendered" more power to you, but make no mistake, it will be incredibly difficult and a large number of people will be unable to be convinced. The other side of it is that people like me, who've taken a large amount of shit, even in college, for dressing any which way, might be wholly unable to even attempt these kinds of things. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Just want to say that while some people can feel free to define their own reality, for others like me, it's physically impossible. I will become sick if I try. For some of us with upsetting histories on this stuff, we have to play by the rules.

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Calligraphette_Coe

I know from experience if you're AMAB and you go out wearing a dress, or a skirt, you are going to take shit for it. Not saying it's right, but it's most likely gonna happen. If you want to go out there and insist "makeup isn't gendered" more power to you, but make no mistake, it will be incredibly difficult and a large number of people will be unable to be convinced. The other side of it is that people like me, who've taken a large amount of shit, even in college, for dressing any which way, might be wholly unable to even attempt these kinds of things. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Just want to say that while some people can feel free to define their own reality, for others like me, it's physically impossible. I will become sick if I try. For some of us with upsetting histories on this stuff, we have to play by the rules.

But we play by different rules and definitions. Like courage. Sometimes courage is the ability to take crap and keep on taking it. And I think women are better at it. With alpha males, it's like a bank account-- they make constant withdrawals but no deposits. Because they don't have to take crap. And eventually, they go bankrupt. For those of us who deposit this crap by taking it and taking it and taking it, we finally get so resolute we can quietly go up against a hurricane of disapproval and other crap.

Trust that it gets easier, Hads. You reach a tipping point where the world will see what you see in the mirror, and you can get rid of those deposit slips to your Ability to Take Crap Account.

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butterflydreams

I know from experience if you're AMAB and you go out wearing a dress, or a skirt, you are going to take shit for it. Not saying it's right, but it's most likely gonna happen. If you want to go out there and insist "makeup isn't gendered" more power to you, but make no mistake, it will be incredibly difficult and a large number of people will be unable to be convinced. The other side of it is that people like me, who've taken a large amount of shit, even in college, for dressing any which way, might be wholly unable to even attempt these kinds of things. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Just want to say that while some people can feel free to define their own reality, for others like me, it's physically impossible. I will become sick if I try. For some of us with upsetting histories on this stuff, we have to play by the rules.

But we play by different rules and definitions. Like courage. Sometimes courage is the ability to take crap and keep on taking it. And I think women are better at it. With alpha males, it's like a bank account-- they make constant withdrawals but no deposits. Because they don't have to take crap. And eventually, they go bankrupt. For those of us who deposit this crap by taking it and taking it and taking it, we finally get so resolute we can quietly go up against a hurricane of disapproval and other crap.

Trust that it gets easier, Hads. You reach a tipping point where the world will see what you see in the mirror, and you can get rid of those deposit slips to your Ability to Take Crap Account.

Isn't there a saying about the best way to defeat your enemies is to keep standing up? They knock you down, and you just keep standing up over and over and over again. Or something like that. The worst part of it was back in college, I wasn't even being my complete self. I was being who I thought wouldn't get noticed and as plain as possible. No way in hell I could do even a fraction of what I've done now when I was in college.

I see what you're saying with the deposits thing, but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't eventually create a person who's both strong and extremely fragile at the same time. Because that's how I feel.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Isn't there a saying about the best way to defeat your enemies is to keep standing up? They knock you down, and you just keep standing up over and over and over again. Or something like that. The worst part of it was back in college, I wasn't even being my complete self. I was being who I thought wouldn't get noticed and as plain as possible. No way in hell I could do even a fraction of what I've done now when I was in college.

I see what you're saying with the deposits thing, but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't eventually create a person who's both strong and extremely fragile at the same time. Because that's how I feel.

I sometimes look at my own emotional fragility as though it came about in much the same way as finely tempered steel. The higher the temperature, the more elastic the result, and the more intricate the tempering, the more useful the end product in some applications. It think is fascinating to compare the study of proportion and harmony of the sometimes fragile state of dysphoria to Young's modulus and Hooke's Law while looking at characteristics of a material in 3D space. That's it's both a mingling and compromise of proportion and harmony, so as not to confuse strength with elasticity, hardness with toughness, so as not to become emotionally brittle with our fellow travellers.

I know I sometimes wake up at night in the throes of a PTSD flashback, and even when my eyes are open, I still don't feel like I've escaped. It sometimes takes a few minutes to shake it off. I guess for me, it's not so much a matter of standing up to the agents of harm as it is phasing out of their reach. Of going to a higher dimension where they can't follow, like a stick man drawn on paper can't jump of the paper at you if you turn it edgewise.

What doesn't kill us may make us strong, and, I think, what doesn't make us brittle stays us against the temptation of becoming an iron fist in a velvet glove. Back in the 90's, there was a gender variant group known as The Transsexual Menace, and their motto was 'Confront With Love.'

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I'd rather be in band.

Physical

  • I hate my chest the most. It's never flat enough. Ever. I could have the flattest chest out of anyone in the entire world and it still wouldn't be flat enough.
  • I hate my hips. It's almost impossible too pass when my hips are as wide as they are. If I wear big enough clothes, though, it almost looks like they aren't as large as they are.
  • I hate my thighs in general.
  • My hands are too small and dainty.
  • My eyelashes are too long.
  • My lips are too big.
  • Bottom dysphoria comes and goes, but I usually can ignore it because I don't have to see that when I look in the mirror. However, it bothers me from time to time.

Physical dysphoria is always the worst for me I always have to do something to alleviate it. At its worst, the discomfort feels like things are literally crawling beneath my skin. Naturally, this sensation brings on a panic attack if it persists. I usually end up cutting my hair even shorter.

Mental/Social

  • I hate how I always make hand motions, but I've actually started to get a handle on it.
  • Misgendering always makes me feel a small stab in my chest.
  • Bathrooms suck. Like, seriously.

This stuff just makes me feel upset, but I can feign confidence still if this is all that bothers me. I kind of just feel empty after a while. I guess a disconnect is a good way to describe it. I had to stop hanging out with some of my old friends because they misgendered me and treated me like a woman and it made me feel empty all the time, which isn't a way to be.

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I'm guessing that the transformation super power is a frequent hope among trans people. When I was a kid, that was always the power that I wanted. I even knew that I wanted it because I wanted to look more like a boy, sometimes it boggles my mind that it took me so long to figure out what the problem was.

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J. van Deijck

I can't say my hands are too small, I have the slight achromachia and my fingers are quite long and thin. But people automatically associate it with women ._. and hearing how "tender and feminine" my hands are makes me sick.

I'm guessing that the transformation super power is a frequent hope among trans people. When I was a kid, that was always the power that I wanted. I even knew that I wanted it because I wanted to look more like a boy, sometimes it boggles my mind that it took me so long to figure out what the problem was.

This is the story of my life.
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I hate my lips SO MUCH, I feel like they are what makes my face so female. I look at pictures of myself before puberty and I wish I had the same thin lips.

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Another thing is when you feel like your body is a waste because some cis person somewhere would "kill to have [my] looks" (stuff relatives say), and you feel like you'd be destroying it getting any surgery you want.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Another thing is when you feel like your body is a waste because some cis person somewhere would "kill to have [my] looks" (stuff relatives say), and you feel like you'd be destroying it getting any surgery you want.

Then there's the one when you're presenting congruent and passing. I was bowled over one time when some female friends saw me dressed to the nines in a pretty elegant dress and dark hose and said, "You! I'd KILL to have legs like those! It's not fair!", as they were telling me that my calves were classic.

And then I had to take off all the trappings, used Ponds on the makeup and go back to being drab. Because I had to go to work the next day in my toad form.

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For some reason the postman, despite delivering my mail clearly addressed to Mister, whizzed by on his bike a couple times and called me a feminised version of my name. :/ the first time I couldn't believe my hearing (I am part deaf in one ear) but the second time I ran after him and corrected him. Lol (And that's my exercise for the month)

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J. van Deijck

Oh the people >.> I am partially deaf in both ears, but it really doesn't justify them ._.

My bf says I have a masculine face. It feels somehow comforting to me :o

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I'm guessing that the transformation super power is a frequent hope among trans people. When I was a kid, that was always the power that I wanted. I even knew that I wanted it because I wanted to look more like a boy, sometimes it boggles my mind that it took me so long to figure out what the problem was.

This. This is a thing. Such a thing!

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I'm guessing that the transformation super power is a frequent hope among trans people. When I was a kid, that was always the power that I wanted. I even knew that I wanted it because I wanted to look more like a boy, sometimes it boggles my mind that it took me so long to figure out what the problem was.

This. This is a thing. Such a thing!

One word: Mystique.

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I just love it when a program finally manages to compile without errors <3 ;)

Don't tell me about compile errors :lol: I open the thread and "compile error" is on the top of the page :P This is what I'm procrastinating, seeing more compile errors...

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@Heart, I remember a while ago you said you were going to cut your hair short soon. Have you done so yet and if yes, how do you feel about it? I'm just curious.

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For what it's worth, you're already a mile and a half ahead of most people in realising that make up is not inherently gendered. Nothing is inherently gendered. If you're a boy and own clothes, then those clothes are a boy's clothes by default, because you own them and you're a boy, even if it's a bright pink dress ;)

Of course this is true, but know that it's an uphill battle if you want to take that attitude to its logical conclusion. I also always tell people, "you see all those guys on the tv news? They're covered in makeup. Set lights make you look really unnatural if you don't have at least some makeup on. You wanna look like Nixon in the Kennedy/Nixon televised presidential debate?"

I know from experience if you're AMAB and you go out wearing a dress, or a skirt, you are going to take shit for it. Not saying it's right, but it's most likely gonna happen. If you want to go out there and insist "makeup isn't gendered" more power to you, but make no mistake, it will be incredibly difficult and a large number of people will be unable to be convinced. The other side of it is that people like me, who've taken a large amount of shit, even in college, for dressing any which way, might be wholly unable to even attempt these kinds of things. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Just want to say that while some people can feel free to define their own reality, for others like me, it's physically impossible. I will become sick if I try. For some of us with upsetting histories on this stuff, we have to play by the rules.

Anyone who's spent time in theater knows that everyone wears make-up on stage/on camera. :) But like everything, it's about context. Make-up isn't gendered, but certain types of make-up, certain styles, and certain contexts for it most certainly is. /shrugs/

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J. van Deijck
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Today's trigger- Men who help you because they see a "female" and assume you need help.. 😡 Was hauling my cart of laundry up the front steps of my building. Random male walking by, without asking, picks up my cart and carries it up the steps. In the name of not being an asshole, I'm forced to accept said help and thank them for it.. When I really just want to tell them to leave me the f*#$&@ alone... I can deal with what I am outside of moments like that (and being hit on, my other dysphoria trigger), but these types of things make me hate myself and everyone else who makes blind assumptions based on gender presentation.. Sigh...

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