Different Dysphorias

[LiteratureNerd]

I know I am a bit late to this conversation, but it is comforting to find some other people who are dealing with eating disorders (though I was also very confused that health care professionals in the US call them EDs). Working on recovering from mine has made me feel a bit more stuck? Confused? I am gaining weight again and some of it goes to filling out and some of it goes to muscle. I have more muscle mass and am taller than is expected for women due to genetics, but I also like having breasts and wearing dresses, so I am still figuring some stuff out. Lots of stuff out. Who knew eating could be so complicated?

[Parent of Questioning Teen]

Last night my teen asked me if it was weird for a boy to wear nail polish.

I said...

It depends. Does the boy want to wear the nail polish?

My child said yeah.

I said...

Well then... Of course there's nothing weird about a boy who is wearing nail polish if he wants to be wearing it. Now it would be weird if he didn't want to be wearing it and he was.

 

Then my teen (I'm sure by now you've guessed my teen was assigned male at birth), asked if he could paint his nails. I said sure, of course, and I got up to find some nail polish. Within minutes I was asked about makeup, clothing, accessories, and shoes. So, I gathered up some makeup and my teen went through my clothes, purses, and shoes.

 

Is this considered a gender dysphoria? If so, how do I educate myself on this so I can be supportive and resourceful? If not, where would I find information about what my child is experiencing so I can be supportive and resourceful?

Edited November 21, 2018 by Parent of Questioning Teen
I just read it's defamatory to say "born male/female" and AMAB or AFAB is correct. I apologize.

[Bloc]

3 hours ago, Parent of Questioning Teen said:

Last night my teen asked me if it was weird for a boy to wear nail polish.

I said...

It depends. Does the boy want to wear the nail polish?

My child said yeah.

I said...

Well then... Of course there's nothing weird about a boy who is wearing nail polish if he wants to be wearing it. Now it would be weird if he didn't want to be wearing it and he was.

 

Then my teen (I'm sure by now you've guessed my teen was assigned male at birth), asked if he could paint his nails. I said sure, of course, and I got up to find some nail polish. Within minutes I was asked about makeup, clothing, accessories, and shoes. So, I gathered up some makeup and my teen went through my clothes, purses, and shoes.

 

Is this considered a gender dysphoria? If so, how do I educate myself on this so I can be supportive and resourceful? If not, where would I find information about what my child is experiencing so I can be supportive and resourceful?

From my limited understanding dysphoria is a state of discomfort and gender dysphoria is feeling uncomfortable with the assigned gender. This can be a week discomfort which can be ignored for quite a long time and tried to be overcome by trying to conform more to your assigned gender. This is my experience for many years of not feeling man enough. Dysphoria can be strong and painful and leave you with deep sadness. It is common for dysphoria to change in strength and how it manifests.

 

I don't know If your child experiences dysphoria. Your child may be gender non-conforming and explores expressions which are seen as feminine without questioning being male. Maybe your child will realize they are trans. Your child has to explore it by themself how they feel with feminine expression and their gender. You should let your child to explore their feelings and identity in their own way and speed and don't try pressure them to find a conclusion. They will tell you when they are ready. Just be there when they need you. In your other post you wrote your child is also struggling with sexual orientation. Here the same applies, don't pressure them to find a conclusion and let them explore.

 

Do you have support groups for trans, gender non-conforming and queer youth in your area, where your child will find a safe space to explore and other teens with similar experiences? A starting point for finding support groups could be local LGBTQ+ organizations. They may also offer counseling for parents.

 

You may also have look in this thread for links to more information:

 

And welcome to AVEN.

 

I hope this answer helps a bit, but this is just my limited experience and I am still figuring out where I am in the gender wise and how it relates to my (a)sexual orientation.

[OttRInvy]

On 11/21/2018 at 12:28 AM, Parent of Questioning Teen said:

Last night my teen asked me if it was weird for a boy to wear nail polish.

I said...

It depends. Does the boy want to wear the nail polish?

My child said yeah.

I said...

Well then... Of course there's nothing weird about a boy who is wearing nail polish if he wants to be wearing it. Now it would be weird if he didn't want to be wearing it and he was.

 

Then my teen (I'm sure by now you've guessed my teen was assigned male at birth), asked if he could paint his nails. I said sure, of course, and I got up to find some nail polish. Within minutes I was asked about makeup, clothing, accessories, and shoes. So, I gathered up some makeup and my teen went through my clothes, purses, and shoes.

 

Is this considered a gender dysphoria? If so, how do I educate myself on this so I can be supportive and resourceful? If not, where would I find information about what my child is experiencing so I can be supportive and resourceful?

Your child could be experiencing gender dysphoria, or they're simply interested in feminine gender expression and want to branch out and experience a side of fashion they haven't yet. Either way, you've made a great first step simply by accepting and allowing your kid to express the way they want to. My mom recognized my gender variant behavior when I was younger and responded with discouragement and shame, and that set me back big time when it came to finding a comfortable way to express and be myself. Listening to your kid and encouraging your kid are the two absolutely essential, amazing things you can do right now. I agree with Bloc in that support groups in your area could be very helpful. I would also suggest explicitly telling your kid that A) they can talk to you about their experience and thoughts on gender and you will accept them, no matter what and B) if they're not comfortable talking to you about their gender, they can talk to a support group/online forums/therapist/any other resources that you can provide them.

 

A friendly reminder: if your kid does experience some hardship involving their gender expression or identity, do what you can to mitigate it, but also allow them to feel that pain. My mom was very uncomfortable with me telling her about my dysphoria, as she internalized my pain and thought of it as a failing on her part. Even if you do all the right things: support your kid, drive them to support groups, encourage their expression and identity, they might still have a hard time (either due to dysphoria, social treatment, or a mix of both). This isn't a failing on your part. Allow your kid to vent to you, don't take every complaint or sad feeling as an accusation that you could be doing more. Sometimes kids just need to complain to feel better.

 

There is tons and tons more advice I could give involving having a trans kid, but it sounds like your kid is in the very early stages of figuring things out and they might end up identifying one way or a complete other, and so I'm refraining from typing out too much. =P I think listening and encouraging your child is really the number one thing. Also, don't interrogate your kid or anything, but asking a couple of questions (while clarifying that your kiddo doesn't have to answer) can be really nice. Respectful questions can feel like your parent really accepts who you are, rather than just tolerates it, because it shows an interest and encouragement in their gender explorations and identity.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

11 hours ago, OttR.Invictus said:

it sounds like your kid is in the very early stages of figuring things out and they might end up identifying one way or a complete other,

Second this. Make sure that your kid knows that being transfeminine is 100% OK, but being a boy who wears makeup and "girl's " clothes is equally OK. 

[Ms. Carolynne]

@Parent of Questioning Teen I would not say it is dysphoria, nor would I assume whether or not they experience it. However, I can understand your concern that they may.

 

The real question is whether their interest in such things stems from gender dysphoria. It is entirely possible your child is cis but gender non-conforming, and / or enjoys crossdressing (or wants to experiment).

 

It's also possible they actually do, and such things can help to alleviate it, and that could be why they wish to experiment.

 

I'd say you're on the right track being open with your child on these matters. Don't pressure your child or try to assume too much, they have to come to their own conclusions, but continue to be there for them and listen.

[Kimmie.]

@Parent of Questioning Teen as Carolynne said it ´could have to do with it. The only thing i think you have to do it to support your child in there self exploreation.

[Axel Cole Campbell]

Hi!! Soooo I'm honestly not sure if what I have is gender dysphoria...

 

I sometimes dislike my chest, but I dont really hate it, just enough to not want to look at it. 

 

I also HATE being called my birth pronouns. It makes me cring and feel ... Sad??? Ig that's the word. And when someone 'misgenders' the gender that I am portrayed as (calls me a guy) I feel happy... 

 

 

Sooo yea...

 

 

[Celyn: The Lutening]

2 hours ago, Axel Cole Campbell said:

 

I also HATE being called my birth pronouns. It makes me cring and feel ... Sad

That's called social dysphoria, my dude.

[Axel Cole Campbell]

8 hours ago, Celyn said:

That's called social dysphoria, my dude.

Thanks... Ive been trying to figure out what it was ...

[Celyn: The Lutening]

4 hours ago, Axel Cole Campbell said:

Thanks... Ive been trying to figure out what it was ...

Glad to be of service!

[no-longer-in-use]

On 11/26/2018 at 9:06 PM, Axel Cole Campbell said:

Hi!! Soooo I'm honestly not sure if what I have is gender dysphoria...

 

I sometimes dislike my chest, but I dont really hate it, just enough to not want to look at it. 

 

I also HATE being called my birth pronouns. It makes me cring and feel ... Sad??? Ig that's the word. And when someone 'misgenders' the gender that I am portrayed as (calls me a guy) I feel happy... 

You sound like you experience gender dysphoria to me. If you prefer he/him pronouns, you might want to look into being a trans guy. If you feel like you'd prefer neutral pronouns (e.g. they/them), you could be non-binary. I wish you the best of luck with figuring yourself out.

[Ms. Carolynne]

On 11/26/2018 at 10:06 PM, Axel Cole Campbell said:

 

I also HATE being called my birth pronouns. It makes me cring and feel ... Sad??? Ig that's the word. And when someone 'misgenders' the gender that I am portrayed as (calls me a guy) I feel happy.

 

 

On 11/27/2018 at 12:31 AM, Celyn said:

That's called social dysphoria, my dude.

Yes, and when you're "misgendered" and called a guy, that is gender euphoria.

 

I've had that happen. Not often mind you, I don't present female, but apparently I can be "mistaken" as a girl under the right circumstances.

 

It happened more often when I was a kid though, but in some of my old photos I did look like a girl. I have no idea how I've managed to get read as female as an adult.

[Kimmie.]

1 hour ago, Ms. Carolynne said:

, but apparently I can be "mistaken" as a girl under the right circumstances.

That is a super power in this case. Whn you feel safe enough to start that will really help you.

And yes the first times i was could her here without me asking for it, It feelt so good i could not stop smiling.

[Brahmacarya]

On 11/11/2018 at 8:30 PM, Katie15 said:

 

Nevermind, I'm behind the times!

[General]

I experience dysphoria when I'm referred to as "This/That person."

 

Yes, I am a person.  However, when someone is making it clear that they don't know what I am or what to call me, that makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable.  I can't stand awkward, embarrassing situations.  It's not that difficult to say something like, "I'm helping this customer" or "I'm assisting this student."  I almost feel like they're trying not to call me an "it" so they opt for "person."

 

You can use gender neutral terms without pausing, stammering, and contorting your face making it obvious that you're confused about someone's sex/gender. 

[Celyn: The Lutening]

1 hour ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

I experience dysphoria when I'm referred to as "This/That person."

See I love the term "person". But I  agree that in certain contexts "customer" or other words that describe your role in the interaction would be better.

[General]

1 hour ago, Celyn said:

See I love the term "person". But I  agree that in certain contexts "customer" or other words that describe your role in the interaction would be better.

It's also the way they say the word person.  They make it obvious to everyone around that they're at a loss for terms.  It makes me feel unacknowledged, like a generic human being instead of actually me.  They might as well just call me an "entity."

 

Even though I'm nonbinary (neither man or woman exclusively in my case), I still can't bring myself to use They/Them pronouns.  It just doesn't feel right.  It sounds like the individual is talking about someone else and not me.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

1 minute ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

It's also the way they say the word person.  They make it obvious to everyone around that they're at a loss for terms.  It makes me feel unacknowledged, like a generic human being instead of actually me.  They might as well just call me an "entity."

 

Even though I'm nonbinary (neither man or woman exclusively in my case), I still can't bring myself to use They/Them pronouns.  It just doesn't feel right.  It sounds like the individual is talking about someone else and not me.

I'd love being called an entity, it would make me feel like I have sinister magical powers!

 

There are other enby pronouns, like E/Em/Eir, might be worth havinga look for ones that fit.

[General]

10 minutes ago, Celyn said:

I'd love being called an entity, it would make me feel like I have sinister magical powers!

 

There are other enby pronouns, like E/Em/Eir, might be worth havinga look for ones that fit.

Oddly enough I'm perfectly fine using She/Her pronouns.  I only feel like I shouldn't because I am not a woman.  It also gets confusing trying to explain to people that I'm nonbinary and use binary pronouns.

 

Once cis people use She/Her for me, it seems like they just feel free to use other terms that make me want to crawl out of my skin such as lady, ma'am, little girl, etc.  The only terms I'm comfortable with are She/Her and female in the medical sense of the word.

 

It's definitely a struggle. 

[Finn.]

I dreamed that I was going to get top surgery so now I'm sad. And I woke up doing the thing I started doing a lot: putting my hands on my lower ribs (right below my chest) so it kinda feels like I am flat-chested. It's a good feeling.

[aerodynamicAce]

On 1/1/2019 at 12:15 PM, Finn. said:

I dreamed that I was going to get top surgery so now I'm sad. And I woke up doing the thing I started doing a lot: putting my hands on my lower ribs (right below my chest) so it kinda feels like I am flat-chested. It's a good feeling.

I had a dream that non-binary bathrooms were normal and that people received male/female hormones for free, haha. 

 

I can't explain exactly if what I feel is dysphoria, and if it is what type, but it feels like I'm uncomfortable in own skin sometimes (not all the time, and with varying degrees of intensity). It makes me feel kinda icky and unpleasantly vulnerable. I don't necessarily dislike my birth sex or want to change it but sometimes I wished I didn't have one at all. Sometimes it bothers me if someone sees me as female, sometimes it bothers me if someone sees me as male and sometimes I don't give a shit what gender they perceive me as. But then sometimes I'm happy to be seen as either male or female, although I like to be seen as ambiguous the most. I don't know, I just kinda feel like an alien.

[General]

1 hour ago, aerodynamicAce said:

I had a dream that non-binary bathrooms were normal and that people received male/female hormones for free, haha. 

 

I can't explain exactly if what I feel is dysphoria, and if it is what type, but it feels like I'm uncomfortable in own skin sometimes (not all the time, and with varying degrees of intensity). It makes me feel kinda icky and unpleasantly vulnerable. I don't necessarily dislike my birth sex or want to change it but sometimes I wished I didn't have one at all. Sometimes it bothers me if someone sees me as female, sometimes it bothers me if someone sees me as male and sometimes I don't give a shit what gender they perceive me as. But then sometimes I'm happy to be seen as either male or female, although I like to be seen as ambiguous the most. I don't know, I just kinda feel like an alien.

Wow, the nonbinary bathrooms and free hormones would be amazing.  I wish!

 

I'm a masculine afab nonbinary person who definitely experiences dysphoria.  I don't want people to be able to look at my body and know what my sex assigned at birth is.  I'd rather my physique appear androgynous, leaning towards masculine.  Socially, I don't want to be treated like a woman/man or referred to as either.  I am a masc-gender outside of the conventional binary.  

 

I'm just a human with masculine qualities.  That's how I'd like to be seen and treated.

 

 

[nerdperson777]

On 1/8/2019 at 12:16 PM, AceOfHearts_85 said:

I'm just a human with masculine qualities.  That's how I'd like to be seen and treated.

I go with masculine person, but I have more feminine tendencies now than I did when I was trying to be hypermasculine so people would take me seriously.  I remember there was a group cosplay that I didn't get to be in where there were 5 girl characters, 9 people in the group, so the guys did the "genderbent" versions.  No one wanted to be the pink guy and I had thought back then that I actually wouldn't have minded being the pink guy.  Now I'm feeling for sure about that.  If they ever do the group again, I could complete all the characters for them by being this pink guy.

[General]

2 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

I go with masculine person, but I have more feminine tendencies now than I did when I was trying to be hypermasculine so people would take me seriously.  I remember there was a group cosplay that I didn't get to be in where there were 5 girl characters, 9 people in the group, so the guys did the "genderbent" versions.  No one wanted to be the pink guy and I had thought back then that I actually wouldn't have minded being the pink guy.  Now I'm feeling for sure about that.  If they ever do the group again, I could complete all the characters for them by being this pink guy.

Ah I see, very interesting.

 

Personally I've never been feminine.  Never had to exaggerate masculinity because being masc came very natural to me.  I've been this way since I was a child.  I recall always wanting to be a male or gender neutral character for every Halloween.  lol

[nerdperson777]

8 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

Ah I see, very interesting.

 

Personally I've never been feminine.  Never had to exaggerate masculinity because being masc came very natural to me.  I've been this way since I was a child.  I recall always wanting to be a male or gender neutral character for every Halloween.  lol

I've only allowed myself to be more feminine in recent years.  I guess it shows that my true self is a bit of "both".  My costumes were male or gender neutral also.  The first costume I made, was a male character who happened to be a ladies' man, that quality did not make me like the character though.  My dad asked me why I don't modify it to make a feminine version with a skirt.  Uh, I hate skirts?  My next costume was a girl dressed as a guy, which I had while I was questioning.  My next one after that would've been a girl with a really neutral outfit if I was still cis.  But I got depressed so I haven't made any costumes for myself recently.  I was making one for a friend as a birthday present but I started too late and now I'm going to be another year late on that.

[Ivory__]

It's been very confusing for me over the past few years trying to understand if I've experienced dysphoria in different aspects of my life, so it's slightly relieving to see my experiences confirmed even if I feel like they're on the lower end of the scale. That's not to say I'm relieved by the discomfort of others, but the fact I can prove to myself I'm not just confused or lying about how I identify. This is confusing in itself since I don't necessarily believe you need dysphoria to identify differently, but when it comes to myself I 'review' everything so much more harshly than I would with others since I just love being my biggest critic.

 

CW : Past dysphoria.

Spoiler

I've definitely experienced social dysphoria. Sometimes certain pronouns make me feel like a mask is being thrown on me that I can't take off, among other things. Body dysphoria, very rarely - a few times in the past like when I had a video taken and was suddenly hit with a sick feeling of not liking my lower body heavily for the first ( and luckily last, as of now ) time. I've also noticed I've been unconsciously comparing my body shape to a more masculine type again recently, even though my body isn't exactly 'gendered' in nature. I'm not sure if I explained correctly, but I can't come up with a better way of saying it and still link these experiences to other things such as body dysmorphia and blatant confusion in my head when I have the evidence there. 

 

I have a similar problem with second-guessing my asexuality sometimes even though I know I have never felt sexual attraction in my life. Fun.

 

[TrippleL]

I’m a biologically male androgyne and I feel a mix of male and female, or in between a man and a woman.

 

I have a mix of what I think might be different dysphorias, but I’ve never thought of them as such:

 

I don’t like using male public toilets BUT I also don’t want to use female ones (neutral would be good)

 

I don’t like it when people call me “a man”, BUT I don’t mind being called “a guy” or being referred to as “he” (and I am just as happy with “she” or “they”)

 

I don’t like my male hands, hips or body hair, BUT I do like my male muscly arms and chest and body overall

 

I don’t like my male parts, BUT I wouldn’t want female parts instead (some sort of retractable tube for standing up peeing would be a good compromise 🙂)

 

I wouldn’t physically change my body in any way, BUT given the chance to swap it in it’s entirety for a female body I probably would (but I’d want the option of going back, as I think I prefer the idea of a biologically male body overall)

 

I feel overall the above cancel each other out in some way, if that makes any sense.

 

Can anyone relate to this? Are these dysphorias?

[SeeYa]

1 hour ago, TrippleL said:

I’m a biologically male androgyne and I feel a mix of male and female, or in between a man and a woman.

 

I have a mix of what I think might be different dysphorias, but I’ve never thought of them as such:

 

I don’t like using male public toilets BUT I also don’t want to use female ones (neutral would be good)

 

I don’t like it when people call me “a man”, BUT I don’t mind being called “a guy” or being referred to as “he” (and I am just as happy with “she” or “they”)

 

I don’t like my male hands, hips or body hair, BUT I do like my male muscly arms and chest and body overall

 

I don’t like my male parts, BUT I wouldn’t want female parts instead (some sort of retractable tube for standing up peeing would be a good compromise 🙂)

 

I wouldn’t physically change my body in any way, BUT given the chance to swap it in it’s entirety for a female body I probably would (but I’d want the option of going back, as I think I prefer the idea of a biologically male body overall)

 

I feel overall the above cancel each other out in some way, if that makes any sense.

 

Can anyone relate to this? Are these dysphorias?

I personally think dysphoria goes a bit deeper than simple physical/mental/social preferences. However all of these are things that can be symptoms of dysphoria.
It's not that strange that you have a bit of a mixed bag if you sit in the neutral gender range, there is a lot of room for variation here after all.

I guess if you are wondering if these are symptoms of dysphoria or not you need to ask yourself: Are these simply preferences? Or do you feel dysphoric when something reminds you that you are not matching these things? Or perhaps even euphoric when you are reminded of matching something?

Either way, you don't have to have dysphoria to be androgyne, or indeed any non-binary or transgender. So even if it isn't dysphoria it doesn't invalidate you k?

[Calligraphette_Coe]

2 hours ago, TrippleL said:

 

 

I feel overall the above cancel each other out in some way, if that makes any sense.

 

Can anyone relate to this? Are these dysphorias?

With certain examples, some. For me, dysphoria is like a psychological auto-immune disease-- I feel like my inner feelings want to tear my body apart. Whereas a physical disease would have inflammation where the body tries to repair it self, I feel the auto-immune dysphoria's analogue would be shame and grief.

 

It's like I want to sell my soul to the devil to get congruent, and he comes back with " Fifteen dollars of androgyny is the best I can do." Since I have already have ten dollars worth of natural androgyny, I lick my wounds and don't take him up on it. In my grief, I tell myself that I'm doing the best that I can-- it's never enough, but it's something.

 

YMMV. ( Your Mileage May Vary).