Let's Talk Compromise and Accomodation - May get Graphic

[walrus]

As a sexual married and deeply in love and physically attracted to an asexual I realize that life will always be one series of compromises after another. Of course, that may well describe all relationships irrelevant of conflicting sexual orientations ... LOL.

Over the months, I have seen many people alude to and slightly describe different manners in which they and their SO have reached a compromise or failed to do so. My wife and I are trying to feel our way around (pun intended) and figure out what will work for us.

Before I found this thread, my 'long face' became such a problem that I fear it may have contributed to her becoming even more asexual than before. Finding ways to keep our relationships alive without reflecting pain and frustration are both painful and frustrating, but they are also rewarding.

We live in a "snow flake" world. No two of us are identical, but if we share ideas, hopes and goals, maybe we can help each other gain more happiness and fulfillment in life. Before I found this website, my marriage was headed for a train wreck. We were deeply in love but both were totally misinterpreting every action and word of the other. We are still working on getting past my wants and her indifference (turned somewhat to dislike.)

I realized earlier today that I have really slacked off on some of the little things I used to do ... ie, have a romantic dinner ready when she comes in; surprise her with a fresh bouquet of roses; hide a little piece of jewelery under her pillow, spontaneously provide a good long foot massage, etc. I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that I know there isn't going to be a pay-off ... ie, a romp in the hay. I have gotta work on that.

We haven't actually reached verbal agreement on any compromises. Once a month in the shower ... once a year in bed ... whatever. I don't want to hand out any guilt trips, punishment or anything negative, but it would be nice to be able to get some solid sleep now and then and to regain some of the drive that has been subjugated in order to not be too aggressive in getting a minor modicum of physical and emotional satisfaction.

Is anyone willing to share how they have compromised and what it took to reach agreements?

[McBuh]

I'm not in a romantic relationship, so I can't tell you how we compromised. I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents that I don't like the word "compromise"--it suggests that two people can't enjoy working with their differences.

[Doc]

I was in a relationship with a sexual. My thought was it's no more her fault that she's sexual than it's my fault that I'm asexual. She has her needs. IF it's going to work out for us I was willing to do that little chore. That's all it was to me. A chore. It didn't disgust me or make me ill or anything. I'd just rather be doing something else like read a book or something. I dunno. To me it was as mundane as taking out the trash. This also becomes a problem, though.

I suppose the 'act' isn't really anything unless both people can get into it. Unfortunately for both of us this was the case and I could not fulfill her needs. Not to mention endless questions from me, lol. For most people I'm sure the act just comes freely and it's the most natural thing in the world. I felt like an actor on stage who hasn't read any of his lines and continually having to ask the director for feeders.

In the end it ended badly. It made me learn that my having a relationship with a sexual is probably not a good idea....for me anyways. I have many methods of my own to express love, but that just doesn't seem to work, lol.

It's evident that you love her dearly. More than the world. That makes me smile. I can also understand all the frustrations you must be feeling. As you can see compromise didn't really work out in my case, lol, but I gave you an asexual perspective on compromise.

Don't stop what you have been doing, though. Everyone loves a nice romantic dinner and little surprises every now and then. Who knows, maybe she'll have one for you!

I wish you both the best of luck.

-Doc

[Rabger]

I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that I know there isn't going to be a pay-off ... ie, a romp in the hay. I have gotta work on that.

You're right, you do, but its cool that you're trying! Where you need to work on it is that to all the things you mentioned, there IS a pay-off. You're wife's happiness, her love and affection, and perhaps some intimacy along the way. Isn't that supposed to be the biggest pay-off of all?

Anyway, unfortunately, I can't tell you how my ex and I compromised. The reason for this is that we had an agreement even before we got together that we wouldn't discuss certain aspects of our relationship one way or another. People, particularly sexuals that we know, just seemed too nosey about it, ya know? Were we having sex? Weren't we? Etc. It's like, its none of your business and it doesn't concern you, get over it *L* Anyway,yeah, however, I can tell you that it CAN work. We were both happy. Yes, there are misunderstandings sometimes, but that's a part of all relationships. It's kind of like two sexuals, but with different levels of sexual drive, or how they see sex, etc. The thing is, communication is a BIG key to things. There needs to be respectful and open talking about all sorts of things, including sexual aspects. Sometimes its hard to understand where the other person is coming from, and that's okay, but both parties at least need to be willing to try. Some people will be able to compromise in certain ways, others, others, etc. However, every person is different and people have different comfort levels, and its important to identify where that line is and not push it too much.

Sort of a rant, but there ya go. Good luck!

[walrus]

Thanks to all who have responded. Any relationship is certainly a very unique event between two people. I guess I'm just trying to get other ideas that we might be able to incorporate.

FF, I certainly appreciate your agreement with your partner. It has always really rackled my feathers to hear folks discussing too much about their intimacy with their spouse, especially if it was done in a 'cheap' manner. I believe that the forum is very important and for whatever reason feel that discussing things here is very much unlike a couple of the guys (or the gals) shooting the bull about what they did to, or with, their spouse last night.

I have always believed that sex should be an extension of love. Sex does not equal love and love does not equal sex, but they can be mutually inclusive and enhance the relationship. That is a big part of my problem. I grew up believing that marital sex was the icing on the cake ... but I really love the icing.

I imagine having sex with someone I didn't love would NOT be much different from the trusty Braun Vibrator. All physical and no emotional. Maybe I'm living in a prehistoric world. This is all so confusing.

[Cate Perfect]

[CONTAINS LANGUAGE WHICH MAY BE OFFENSIVE]

Walrus, first off I have to say that we need more understanding sexual people like you!

As for compromises in the physical relations question--it's really going to be about how much she's comfortable with. (And you are a great guy to not want to unintentionally put pressure on her.) Perhaps she could make a list of things she'd be all right with and how frequently--always with the understanding that if she's not holding to her 'oral once a month' clause it's ok (it's not a binding contract signed in blood) and that simple affection does have to lead to sex.

Sometimes just knowing that your partner understands and accepts your asexuality is enough to help you relax. If she knows that you know that just because she doesn't like sex doesn't mean she doesn't love you then she may (not certainly, but perhaps) feel more affectionate. From an asexual's point of view it seems like, 'If I do it this once he'll expect it all the time,' so it's important that she gets that you're not going to turn into a nympho.

Cate

[walrus]

Hi Cate. First let me say that I have read many of your posts and have also gotten a real kick out of those by Cate's Mom. I suspect that 'boredom' and 'the mundane' have never been associated with either of you. LOL.

You make an excellent point that any agreement is not a contract signed in blood. In a relationship, it seems to me that any codification of desires, behavior and expectations should be really just be a generalization. Too much specificity turns the entire matter into something that is too rote and rigid. I can see that one of the great challenges of all this is going to be maintaining spontaneity. Bill Clinton was a master of pre-planned spontaneity ... lol. Right now I thinking that the best course will be one in which we just set forth a few generalities and not put any performance figures or expectations with them.

Thanks ......

[Cate Perfect]

Right now I thinking that the best course will be one in which we just set forth a few generalities and not put any performance figures or expectations with them.

That's exactly what I was trying to say--you just stated it better.

Now that we have this spiffy new forum hopefully more partners will come in and give one another support. It'd be great if you could stick around--we need more people like you. You wouldn't believe some of the people we get here.

Cate

[Amcan]

It's great to see a sexual like yourself being understanding and trying to find common middle ground.

Well done.

I have no real advice other than that which has already been given I just wanted to say it's nice to come across an attitude like yours.

I wish you luck.

[mkt]

As a sexual in a relationship with a person who is totally indifferent to sex, here are the things I have wished we could do that *I* see as a compromise to intercourse (and yes this will be graphic, but you asked and there is no other way to honestly propose ways to compromise). Some are sexual, some are not, but all would lmake me feel better about *not* having spontaneous, no-holds-barred sex, without limits, and with a lot of passion and creativity - which is what I really want (and often!). Some asexuals may see some of these as unacceptable - of course it is up to the two people involved to decide what is ok for both. Not a single one of these suggestions will always work, but any single one might function as a way to be close soem time or another:

Give the person wanting to be sexual a sensual backrub/footrub/headrub - or exchange backrubs, or footrubs (I suggest a talk before hand so both people know where this will end)

have a romantic night out - dinner, talking, walking, cuddling

just touch each other - maybe just sensually and not sexually, maybe sexually but with whatever limits the asexual person wants (no intercourse? no orgasm? touching only above the waist? etc Again, important to know before hand what is acceptable and what is not)

one person touch the other only, with whatever degree of sexual seems okay (see previous list)

listen to the other's heartbeat with both people laying naked together - this is wonderfully bonding

use sex toys to substitute for the asexual person's body/touch, but have the asexual person present physically and emotionally

the person who doesn't want sex hold the other person while he/she masturbates

phone sex, talking "dirty"

With a little creativity the list can go on and on... it can get pretty untraditional. How about a menage-a-trois with minimal participation from the asexual? Or a polyamorous relationship? Or indulging in porn together? The catch seems to be whether or not the asexual person is willing to participate - and enjoy, or at least tolerate the activity... I think many sexual people just can't enjoy anything sexual if their loved one is trying to watch tv or obviously bored or disgusted - or resentful. Even if the asexual person isn't physically aroused, I think it could still be a loving interaction - if the asexual person feels loving toward the sexual person (and vice-versa of course) and is willing to show it just by being physically and emotionally present - not being aloof or withdrawn during the experience. From what I read on this list, that seems impossible for some asexuals.

[mouri_shin]

I do wish you luck but I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't go into this thinking it'll end perfectly. Do keep on being understanding, that's really the best thing but i've got a sad story...

I'm asexual and my ex was real intent on finding some way to compromise but I found out I couldn't deal with it after a few months talking, revising, etc. It really seemed that the more we talked about compromise at all the more sick it made me feel about our whole relationship. We, obviously, broke up but he was completely heartbroken and hasn't seen anyone since. Fidelity is really one of his best qualities.. but things just weren't going to work out. :cry:

But, you may get lucky and an agreement may work, won't know till you try :D

[mkt]

Mouri-shin, can you explain why "things just weren't going to work out? It sounds to me like you gave up on trying to work things out - you didn't have it in you, it wasn't working for you? Are you saying you didn't care about your partner enough to compromise, or that you wanted to, but couldn't? I don't understand. or was there some other factor that made you realize it couldn't work?

[confusedme]

I know that everyone mentions compromise in regards to a sexual/asexual pairing (and that's probably a frequently used word on every relationship message board!) We've tried compromises:

I pretended to be into it for years. I agreed to do it more frequently than I wanted, but said I wasn't going to fake it anymore. We agreed to do it twice a month whether I wanted to or not. We did other things (besides intercourse) for awhile. We've been only having sex when I truly want to for awhile, so that I'm truly into it and emotionally present (which ends up being about once a month.) None of this is good enough for my husband. He wants sex AND for me to want it too. And that's not something I can control.

So it's great to hear from a man who is both open and honest about how you really feel, but who also has respect for your wife and her differences.

When it comes to compromise, sometimes doing it for the sake of the other person can feel like pimping yourself out. I know that it made me feel even less connected to my husband. I just felt used. I guess inside I thought that if he knew I didn't want to, that it was uncomfortable for me, etc..., then he shouldn't want to do it either. Or that even if he did physically want to do it, that knowing that I didn't want to would change his mind. I don't know. I really think men and women operate differently on so many levels!

Have you made any compromises yet?

[walrus]

Confusedme, I read you post earlier and ever since I have had Dan Hills song "Sometimes When We Touch" reverberating thru my head. I've always thought that and Shake Russells "Silver Hearts" are two of the most beautiful love songs ever written and recorded.

You ask me if I love you, and I choke on my reply.

I'd rather hurt you honestly than mislead you with a lie.

I'm going to say something that is not intended to be cutting, but it may come across that way. It is certainly the "other side" of this conflict.

You said:

When it comes to compromise, sometimes doing it for the sake of the other person can feel like pimping yourself out. I know that it made me feel even less connected to my husband. I just felt used. I guess inside I thought that if he knew I didn't want to, that it was uncomfortable for me, etc..., then he shouldn't want to do it either. Or that even if he did physically want to do it, that knowing that I didn't want to would change his mind. I don't know. I really think men and women operate differently on so many levels!

It seems to me that if a person attaches no great importance to sex and doesn't feel any of the emotional and spiritual connections to their partner when they have sex, then why is having sex with your spouse any different from giving him/her a great one hour massage starting at the feet and culminating on the scalp? Should I feel "used" when I provide that kind of massage for my wife. She doesn't get as many as she used to. I am still willing to give them, even tho the result is that I will find myself in a highly aroused state that requires a shower, a sleepless night or a date with Rosey Palm and her five sisters. Heck, even giving her a good foot massage brings me to attention, but giving one to other women doesn't.

I absolutely do not consider that I am USING my wife when we have sex any more than I feel she is using me when I provide physical contact and muscle relaxation in the form of a massage. It is just an extention of intimacy in our relationship and is rooted in love ... not a purely physical act that would be the same with just any other woman. I probably need to tell her that tonight.

We have not sat down and reduced our relationship to a series of entries on a legal contract ... I just can't believe that will be the answer. Yes, we have both made compromises, but we have not formally made them binding. Frankly, I do not want to have that kind of relationship. I think some others have done so and it was the best answer for them.

From my view, I can not stand a relationship where intimacy is a bargaining chip and a commodity for me and a sentence for her. I wish I had the answer, but my crystal ball is cracked. I only know that I don't feel that only doing it when she feels like it is a compromise. However, I do not want her to have to live a lie.

[confusedme]

Well, for me the difference is that intercourse is an "invasion" of my body. It has too many mental connections to pornography, in my mind. I have an aversion to it. And sometimes it physically hurts. But those aren't the same reasons as someone who just feels lukewarm about sex may have. I know I have issues. Because I feel this strongly about it, it HAS been a compromise for me. My issues with sex are a lot deeper than just a low sex drive. Do I even have a low sex drive, I've wondered? I get turned on once or twice a week-but I prefer to masturbate, because that's what feels good. And that comes without the feeling used and/or discomfort part.

I'm sorry if it seemed in my post that I don't care what my husband needs or wants. I feel very guilty about not meeting his needs. I feel like a failure of a wife. But in order to give him what he wants/needs, I'd have to pretend and lie. I tried that for years. And it doesn't work. Because he doesn't just want weekly (or more) sex-he wants ME to want it too.

Maybe you touched on another one of the real problems-with your song references. Would you mind elaborating? (I like your posts and I value your opinion and experience.)

Here is the painful truth: I've never been sexually attracted to my husband. Sex for me has always been wrapped in some kind of power issue. I was with a guy for 4 years before my husband. I "loved" (read: was infatuated with) him and we had good sexual chemistry. We had sex every other day-and I was ok with that. Then I had an abortion (very painful physically and emotionally) and that changed. We broke up a couple years later and it was a painful breakup. When I finally felt ready to date again, I chose a guy who was the complete opposite of the guy I'd been with-a guy who wasn't my "type." I wanted there to be no way I'd fall so hard for a guy again. I wanted to be the one with the upper hand in the relationship. I wanted a SAFE guy. I know that's not fair to him-but that's the truth.

Then in my mid-20s, I started remembering all these attempts by different guys and men to molest me while I was growing up. I hadn't remembered. (I'm sorry for sharing too much here, but I feel it's important for background info.)

And since this is anonymous, I'll go ahead and say that part of the reason I sometimes have pain with intercourse is that I have Crohn's Disease (a gastrointestinal illness that can have anal and rectal symptoms) and some form of "vulvar dystrophy." That's something like abnormal blood flow to the vulva or something. I have no labia minora-just the outer lips (sorry if that offends.) There's a thin, flat, permanent white line where I assume the labia minora was when I was little. I was and am my husband's one and only sexual partner, so he never knew the difference! I just thought those women on pornos had all that "stuff" down there because they had too much sex. I really, really thought that. I am a college educated woman in my 30s and I didn't know I was "missin' somethin'" until about 4 years ago. I don't look strange really, just don't have that "meaty" (ick) look down there. It's more of a smooth, streamlined area! Ha-ha. I can't believe I'm saying this! :shock: The purpose of sharing that with you is to tell you that this vulvar dystrophy thing can cause pain in the area of the vaginal opening. A pinching or tugging feeling.

ANYWAY-you're probably grossed out and if so I'm sorry. I guess I'm just unloading all this unmentionable stuff because there's finally a place to. It's actually a relief. Oh, and while I'm at it, I'll go ahead and mention that I'm kinda attracted to some lesbians...

MY HUSBAND SURE IS A LUCKY ONE, HUH? :(

(Maybe I have too many issues for this website.)

[walrus]

You've moved this into an entirely different ballpark. Physical pain and severe discomfort adds an entirely different dimension to the problem. I remember telling my wife that if she had physical problems, that would give me a totally different view of our problem. I'm sure that having psychological pain is no different from physical pain, but the physical is easier to accept. I trust you have shared and discussed that with your husband. If not, maybe you should think about doing so. I know that it would make it far, far easier for me to accept if that was the case with us.

The same for traumatic events from the past. Believe me, I have had more than my share of very, very traumatic events and can understand what they can do to a person. For instance, I have very good friends who are homosexual, but there is always a deep seated feeling of concern that date back to an attempt that was made on me when I was a teenager. My wife cannot identify any such events in her life, but I also accept that she may have varying degrees of repressed memory .... and again, that makes this entire matter easier for me.

If you get a chance, pick up a copy of Dan's song ... or the version by Mark Grey and Tammy Wynette. Almost every verse may offer some additional insight into your relationship. Maybe listen to it with your husband and discuss verses that seem to have an application. I'll bet you'll find several of them. Now that I've given you this sage advice, I'm going to take it myself and talk to my wife about some of them.

In your posts, I'm hearing some feelings of inadequacy or inferiority. Your first mission is to get rid of them. You need to realize that for the most part us guys aren't attracted to your aspects of perfection (whatever the heck that is). It is those little differences that we love.

It seems that all of us bring garbage from the past into our relationships and our partners pay the bill. You may need to work on some of those issues and you also need to get rid of any feelings of guilt for the current situation ... unless of course you got to where you are because you wanted to be there. You can rest assured that your husband has some issues that spill over into the relationship.

I fully understand the need to "get it all out into the open." Finding this forum and being able to ventilate has been of immeasurable benefit for this old geezer.

[walrus]

confusedme, here are the lyrics to Sometimes When We Touch ...

Sometimes When We Touch - Dan Hill

You ask me if I love you

And I choke on my reply

I'd rather hurt you honestly

Than mislead you with a lie

And who am I to judge you

On what you say or do?

I'm only just beginning to see the real you

And sometimes when we touch

The honesty's too much

And I have to close my eyes and hide

I wanna hold you til I die

Til we both break down and cry

I wanna hold you till the fear in me subsides

Romance and all its strategy

Leaves me battling with my pride

But through the insecurity

Some tenderness survives

I'm just another writer

Still trapped within my truth

A hesitant prize fighter

Still trapped within my youth

And sometimes when we touch

The honesty's too much

And I have to close my eyes and hide

I wanna hold you til I die

Til we both break down and cry

I wanna hold you till the fear in me subsides

At times I'd like to break you

And drive you to your knees

At times I'd like to break through

And hold you endlessly

At times I understand you

And I know how hard you've tried

I've watched while love commands you

And I've watched love pass you by

At times I think we're drifters

Still searching for a friend

A brother or a sister

But then the passion flares again

And sometimes when we touch

The honesty's too much

And I have to close my eyes and hide

I wanna hold you til I die

Til we both break down and cry

I wanna hold you till the fear in me subsides

[Melon]

Is anyone willing to share how they have compromised and what it took to reach agreements?

Me (asexual) and my husband (sexual) have just been through this process. We decided that we would have to be very concrete and very precise and specific about what I could and could not cope with and he about what was most important to him. We actually had to do some thinking first as to what very specific factors in various activities made us feel loved and what made us feel uncomfortable or didn't matter that much to us. I think this is such an individual thing. It has to be tailored precisely to each others comfort zones and needs. I got to say what made me feel loved and so did he, and we worked out what we had that was common ground between us. Stuff that we both could feel comfortable with. Cuddles and (for me, non-genitally focused) stroking pleased us both, kisses (for me, with both mouths closed) pleased us both, I had to be specific that it was kisses with tongues, anything to do with genitals and bodily fluids or oral sex that I can't hack, and that I can feel a desperate need to escape if I try penetrative sex and can end up feeling desolate afterwards. I had to tell him that sometimes I feel quite panicked but can't actually say so, frozen, and that if he is caught up in passion I feel he can't read that frozen body language. I had to tell him that the worst thing for me is when a nice cosy intimate cuddle (which for me IS lovemaking) turns into sex. If there's a gap in between, if I have turned over and started to read a book, and he then asks me to hold him whilst he masturbates, then that is fine and I can enjoy being with him and stroking the rest of his body. The agreement is that only I will ever initiate penetrative sex, should I ever feel the need. I was surprised to find him quite happy to forgoe certain things I had thought he would think essential, or even that he hadn't liked them that much himself or found them too intense. I was also suprised to find it was being held and stroked that were the really important things to him, not by what method he thereafter orgasmed. You have to put aside all other concerns and go for absolute and concrete honesty.

[AVENCakes]

Me (asexual) and my husband (sexual) have just been through this process. We decided that we would have to be very concrete and very precise and specific about what I could and could not cope with and he about what was most important to him. We actually had to do some thinking first as to what very specific factors in various activities made us feel loved and what made us feel uncomfortable or didn't matter that much to us. I think this is such an individual thing. It has to be tailored precisely to each others comfort zones and needs. I got to say what made me feel loved and so did he, and we worked out what we had that was common ground between us. Stuff that we both could feel comfortable with. Cuddles and (for me, non-genitally focused) stroking pleased us both, kisses (for me, with both mouths closed) pleased us both, I had to be specific that it was kisses with tongues, anything to do with genitals and bodily fluids or oral sex that I can't hack, and that I can feel a desperate need to escape if I try penetrative sex and can end up feeling desolate afterwards. I had to tell him that sometimes I feel quite panicked but can't actually say so, frozen, and that if he is caught up in passion I feel he can't read that frozen body language. I had to tell him that the worst thing for me is when a nice cosy intimate cuddle (which for me IS lovemaking) turns into sex. If there's a gap in between, if I have turned over and started to read a book, and he then asks me to hold him whilst he masturbates, then that is fine and I can enjoy being with him and stroking the rest of his body. The agreement is that only I will ever initiate penetrative sex, should I ever feel the need. I was surprised to find him quite happy to forgoe certain things I had thought he would think essential, or even that he hadn't liked them that much himself or found them too intense. I was also suprised to find it was being held and stroked that were the really important things to him, not by what method he thereafter orgasmed. You have to put aside all other concerns and go for absolute and concrete honesty.

Wow, it sounds like you're a repulsed asexual- and you still managed to find a compromise. :) That's really impressive, gives me hope.

[starcat]

..

[Melon]

I tried so hard to bring myself to the point of "giving". I have to talk myself into it so I prepared all day. But my body rejected it all even though my mind was willing. So I don't understand anymore. (I have to include that the next day I was fine. Pains gone)

I am so at a loss for understanding and compromising :(

Does hubby know what you'd planned? (might mean a lot to him that your mind was willing) And could you talk to him about what happened when you got to the brink of carrying out your plan, and how you felt about that?

My guess is that you are terribly emotionally and mentally worn down from coping with a dilemma you can't cope with any more at the moment, and your mind is saying "no more" through your body.

I wonder what might happen if for an agreed period of time you had a "holiday" from the issue, and just both agreed to be romantic and cuddley with no prospect of sex looming on the horizon. If your hubby wanted to masturbate the agreement might be he do so without your knowing during this period. Then what might happen if you moved in baby steps towards just being present with him whilst he masturbates, stroking his hair and telling him you love him. By baby steps I mean starting even from stroking his hair and kissing him and telling him to enjoy himself before disappearing off somewhere whilst he satisfies himself, and then next time staying for a couple of minutes. You might find it doesn't work out, but if it does, it might be a point to start from. Whatever you decide, big hugs. This is so very very hard, I know.

[Sally]

This is said from the point of view of someone who used to be able to participate, albeit without any real pleasure, but who has now come to the point (slowly) of not being able to tolerate anything to do with sex. I really hate to see someone try to force their body and mind to do something they doesn't want to do. If I were to imagine myself trying to compromise with a partner who really wants sex, I immediately feel sick. If you are at that stage, Starcat, I don't know what you can do. Trying to "sneak up on it" by doing little steps wouldn't work for me, I know, because I wouldn't be able to mentally hide from the fact that the goal is full-blown sex.

This obviously isn't any help, just an acknowledgement that you are not alone in how you have come to feel.

[starcat]

Does hubby know what you'd planned? (might mean a lot to him that your mind was willing) And could you talk to him about what happened when you got to the brink of carrying out your plan, and how you felt about that?

Yes I did finally tell him after I broke down about it all going wrong. I really did try hard and he knew it. He was very supportive and grateful that I would even think about it..let alone try. But he was concerned about how sick I got over it.

I think your suggestion of having a holiday from the issue, hit the nail on the head. We have never really had one. I guess I am wearing down and trying too hard to work something out. I can't say that I will be able to get to the point of being with him while he masturbates, but I get the jest of the direction your going with that. Thank you so much for your insight.

Thank you for your acknowledgement too Sally. Means alot :)

[Melon]

Trying to "sneak up on it" by doing little steps wouldn't work for me, I know, because I wouldn't be able to mentally hide from the fact that the goal is full-blown sex.

But do we have to make the goal full-blown sex? My hubby just wanted my affectionate touch, stroking, and me with him, accepting his sexual self, whilst he sorted matters out for himself. I don't even have to look (grin). I don't have to touch bits I don't want to. I can just stroke his hair if that's all I want to, and tell him I love him. Hell I can just read a book if I want and snuggle up with my back to him, if I am feeling that's all I want to do, after giving him a kiss and a wink that tells him its ok to be himself. He says my being there makes a huge difference to him emotionally. For me, this solution, with its cast iron guarantee from him of no penetrative sex, no oral or manual sex, no need for me to touch anything I don't want to or be touched unless I ask to be, has taken all the pressure off and made me feel loved for myself. Funnily enough and to the delight of both of us, I am now five times as touchy feely and affectionate with him generally than I was. We came to this after a big problem in our marriage over issues of sex that brought it home to us how much we both wanted to stay together, closely followed by a "holiday" when he abstained completely for many months and then my finding Aven, which led to lots of realisations, honesty and a deep mutual desire to find a solution that left both of us ok with who we were, that included affectionate touch, and that didn't mean me doing anything that made me feel yucky.

I don't suggest anyone force themselves to do anything they feel uncomfortable with, but if the only other solution was for my hubby to go elsewhere I think if it was me, I'd give it a try to see whether it was less traumatic than I anticipated. The only other solution is for the sexual partner to masturbate alone or learn to live without entirely and whilst my hubby actually gave that a good go as he was determined we were staying together, I could see it left him feeling lonely.

[Sally]

I think you are extremely lucky, Melon, in having a very accommodating spouse. There are others on AVEN who do also. In my case, I had to cut any kind of sexual expression off completely because my partner was too disturbed by going only halfway, and I did not want to feel like I was constantly putting on the brakes. By withdrawing from that arena, I of course realized that he might go elsewhere, because that expression was extremely important to him. Our "compromise" was that he didn't expect me to do anything; I didn't expect him to go without and accepted whatever he needed to do. Others -- you included -- have easier compromises.

[Melon]

I think you are extremely lucky, Melon, in having a very accommodating spouse. There are others on AVEN who do also. In my case, I had to cut any kind of sexual expression off completely because my partner was too disturbed by going only halfway, and I did not want to feel like I was constantly putting on the brakes. By withdrawing from that arena, I of course realized that he might go elsewhere, because that expression was extremely important to him. Our "compromise" was that he didn't expect me to do anything; I didn't expect him to go without and accepted whatever he needed to do. Others -- you included -- have easier compromises.

I agree, I am very very lucky in having the kind of hubby I have. I am also lucky in that I could handle this solution. When I think about the possibility of a compromise such as you had to arrive at, I don't think I could have handled it.

[Sally]

I agree, I am very very lucky in having the kind of hubby I have. I am also lucky in that I could handle this solution. When I think about the possibility of a compromise such as you had to arrive at, I don't think I could have handled it.

That's because you are you and I am I; different people have to choose different avenues. I couldn't handle your compromise, either. Along with being self-acknowledged asexuals, we all are very different people in the larger context. We define loss in different ways.

[starcat]

I don't suggest anyone force themselves to do anything they feel uncomfortable with, but if the only other solution was for my hubby to go elsewhere I think if it was me, I'd give it a try to see whether it was less traumatic than I anticipated.

Problem for me is, I have gone the route of giving when I can. It has just gotten harder to keep doing each time. Now I'm at the point where I can't "do" at all anymore. We went from full on sex, to no penetration (because of pain issues), then down to focusing only on him (my choice), then down to oral only (to him), and also tried just laying beside him and not touching at all when he masturbates. It has progressively gotten worse on my end. I really don't want to have anything to do with sex of any kind.

So it feels like we've had baby-steps backwards...not forwards. So how can I condem him for seeking out that sexual closeness with someone else?

I'm really hoping that by taking a holiday from all this it might produce some positive results. But I just don't know anymore.

[Sally]

and support to you in whatever you end up deciding or doing, Starcat. It is such a difficult journey. I ended up where you are now about 2 years ago. I haven't gone back the other way, but that doesn't mean that you won't be able to. Everyone's different.

[starcat]

Thanks Sally. The way things have progressed, I doubt I will be able to go back either :(