Apogender? How would you describe that?

[Otohime]

Has anyone here heard of or identity with Apogender? What does that mean to you? I don't want to be use the term, if I'm not using it the way other people interpret it.

Here's the definition I got online. Apogender: Greek prefix apo, meaning away from, separate, at the farthest point; a subset of agender in which you feel not only genderless but entirely removed from the concept of gender.

Here's my thing. I do feel removed from the concept of gender, so much I don't know if I "feel" genderless, because even that's a funk in my mind.

For years, the way I saw gender was by appearance, because that's all it meant to me. I was born a girl, so I was told I was a girl, I never changed my appearance or felt the need to, so I'm still the same. But when gender is talked about as an identity or a feeling, I just get confused. Looking back over my years, I've never felt connected to any group and I don't feel it on a personal level. I don't feel anything towards any gender. I observe it in other individuals and how they socialize, but it doesn't resonate with me.

In truth, I don't feel human. I mean, if you are talking intellectually. I know I have a human body, so my mind is in order. I've had a lot of trouble identifying or connecting with anything human or of thinking of myself in that way. It's all foreign, and I tend to categorized it as all separate from me. I have a body, but that's not me. That disassociation has been a problem, if I forget to eat or sleep (I also don't understand sex but that's less of a problem). Anyway, it's like it's like I have to constantly remind myself that I'm a physical person to take care of myself. Also, I have dysphoria, but it's mostly not specific to gender (which is also confusing because most people talk about gender dysphoria but I don't even know how to describe me... human dysphoria?).

The issue is when it comes to looks and gender. If Apogender is the futherest away to genderless, would that mean the "ultimate genderless" should look genderless? I understand looking genderless in theory, but when I think about looking genderless, it just feels like another gender. Like agender is the gender (I know it isn't exactly but that's how it feels... if it accompanied looking a certain way. It's saying I don't identity with this group or that group, so I'm neutral. Neutral it still something if it's a physical something).

I look female. Not feminine per se, as I stick with the natural look (no make-up or frills). Being physically female and being thought of as female has caused me no more dysphoria than if I imagine looking any other way. I don't mind - I guess even prefer it to anything else, because there's no right way they could think of me. So long as they don't place importance on gender (they can think of me as female in passing but the second they use that as a defining way or an attempt to think they understand me, I'll get upset. )

Does that sound like apogender? Something else?

[Opaliz]

Wow, I didn't even know about that term! :redface:

I can't really contribute with anything other than saying I can relate... Well, I hope someone else can answer your question! I'm curious myself.

[AveSatanas]

It sounds to me like you have put a lot of thought into this. I would say that your research counts as much as any one else's opinion. I would give yourself the credit you obviously deserve and use the term if it makes sense to you. I am NOT a big fan of identity policing and I think if you have found a meaningful word and studied the heck out of it, you should use it. Your argument for applying it to yourself is sound, if that's what you want to know.

[Star Bit]

If you're agender then just go by that. Apo means away/off/separate/free from/derived from, so one of those is all that Apogender should mean. It can mean lack/absence but we already have a name for that; agender. Apo doesn't mean all those things at once (so it shouldn't be usd as such), but that's how the word can be used/how it's been streched.

[Dodecahedron314]

I kind of get what you're saying here. I've come across the term before--there's a Tumblr with a massive list of gender identities, but I can't remember what it's called--and have contemplated identifying that way myself, because I have a similar sort of disconnect going on, though I don't know if it's ever been so strong as to qualify as dissociation. I just kind of forget that I have a physical manifestation altogether sometimes--I feel like more of a Boltzmann brain than anything. However, my understanding of agender is slightly different than yours--the concept of "agender as a gender" seems more like neutrois to me, i.e. having a gender, just a neutral one, while I consider agender to be exactly that--the state of not having a gender. I suppose that could be a spectrum just as much as having a gender--there are fully gendered people, there are less gendered demigender people, and then perhaps apogender would be the greatest degree of removal, just like the spectrum of sexuality from allo to demi/gray to ace, or romanticism from allo to demi/gray to aro? Agender would then perhaps be the "umbrella term", much like asexuality encompasses graysexuality and demisexuality as well as asexuality itself. (Uh oh, the ace spectrum is a set that contains itself. Be on the lookout for Bertrand Russell.)

[nerdperson777]

I was thinking about third gender. A gender that isn't on the spectrum or isn't agender is not something I understand but it's there. I talked to an ace at school who didn't really think they fit any gender so I created gender meh. But since you don't even feel human, that might be another thing. Might be off-topic, but sometimes I look at the English language and think that certain words really do sound made up to me. I know language is a human constructed thing but I can sometimes look at a word and see gibberish, usually simple one syllable words. But anyway, we just get even more complex with the genders.

[Otohime]

I just kind of forget that I have a physical manifestation altogether sometimes--I feel like more of a Boltzmann brain than anything.

I had never heard of a bolzmann brain before - very interesting. I can related to that a bit.

For me, I see myself as a spirit. When people talk about their ideal form, that's mine. Just energy with no sex or gender - and neither of those should I ever have to be concerned with. And when I really think about deeper identity, that's how I see myself - light and color. I have human form to interact with this world, but it's like my mind hasn't quite caught up with it... so sometimes I struggle grasping things that seem to come intuitively to others.

Agender would then perhaps be the "umbrella term", much like asexuality encompasses graysexuality and demisexuality as well as asexuality itself.

I could see this. I'd definitely say "neutrois" is under the agender umbrella. I'm not sure where, if anywhere, apogender would fit in, if we are comparing it to sexual orientation. After all:

If asexual = no attraction and futherest away from having any sexual attraction

Then agender = no gender and furthest away from having any gender.

Unless, there was also aposexual. I suppose that could be a term, and it would be even further removed from asexual. Aposexual would be like.. having no concept of sexual attraction or no ability for sex / attraction (not necessarily both of those, but I'd definitely say it means away from the concept of attraction.). In an extreme example, if there was an alien species that did not and could not have sex and had no ability to even understand attraction, they would be aposexual. And also, assuming they still reproduced, they would also be asexual in the literal sense.

I was thinking about third gender. A gender that isn't on the spectrum or isn't agender is not something I understand but it's there. I talked to an ace at school who didn't really think they fit any gender so I created gender meh. But since you don't even feel human, that might be another thing.

I don't think I'm trying to describe a third gender but it could be related. To me (and other people might feel this differently. I'm only relating to this in theory) - to me, if a person identifies as a third-gender, they are basically associating with something not commonly felt by people. Okay, so I imagine a foreign world where there was more than two genders -- there could be a world with infinite genders, but let's stick with the three: Male, Female, Meh. Someone who is gender Meh comes to earth, and then is expected to identify as either Male or Female (or both, none, or on the scale in there). But this person who is gender Meh does identify as a gender. There's just no word on earth to describe it because it's not something most humans recognize.

I relate to that concept because that's how I feel. Not the third gender part but no gender. I feel like I came from a world where there was no gender, not even a concept of it. Technically, agender fits the definition of what I'm looking for, but it still feels strange, like I don't know why I'm even on the no binary part of the binary. Which doesn't even make sense if I'm looking at that logically. Agender should fit me, so I don't know why I feel apathetic towards thinking of myself that way.

Apo means away/off/separate/free from/derived from, so one of those is all that Apogender should mean.

OMG. "Free from." That's what I want. I don't know that I am free from gender, because I live in a world that has gender, but that's my wish!

[Star Bit]

No, Aposexual is Lithsexual's new term; having sexual attraction but reacting badly or indifferently to IRL sexual reciprocation; more specifically over time or immediately it causing indifference, loss of interest, or repulsion, which are all under Apo's meaning.

[Dodecahedron314]

No, Aposexual is Lithsexual's new term; having sexual attraction but reacting badly or indifferently to IRL sexual reciprocation; more specifically over time or immediately it causing indifference, loss of interest, or repulsion, which are all under Apo's meaning.

Huh? I thought akoisexual was what was replacing lithsexual, just like akoiromantic and lithromantic.