FTM Transgender - Can you take testosterone and NOT end up all manly?

[Ronan2202]

The reasons I didn't want to take testosterone:

I want to be an androgynous GUY

I don't want lots of body hair

I don't want a beard

I don't want massive muscles

I don't want to go bald

I don't want to be unrecognizable to family or myself

I thought it was inevitable that if I took testosterone I'd turn into this, like, "definition of manliness" and start growing a massive beard and have loads of body hair. Not that there's anything wrong with that, that's just not ME. xD

But THEN, still arguing with myself over T, I saw this video:

I don't understand how he looks so amazingly androgynous after over a year on T! (He said he was on and off it, but lots of transguys don't look that androgynous) What genes make you look like that? I barely have any hair on my body (My mother is asian and little body hair is common), so maybe I won't get a lot more on T? But I don't know... I want and don't want T at the same time because I'm afraid it'll change me too much.

Is there some kind of gene that will affect the way I look on T? If so, what? xD I heard to look at my mother's side of the family for hair loss, I don't know if it's true or not, her dad still has hair to be expected of someone in their 90s and her brothers still have hair.

Basically, is T even worth it if I want to stay androgynous? (But the guy in the video is on T and still androgynous xD) I just don't want to regret an irreversible decision, but I also don't want to regret NOT doing something that would make me happy. Oh god, I'm so confused.

And don't call me just a "genderqueer woman," someone told me that when I said I was transgender and didn't want to be manly... :(

[ChangelingGirl]

Do you see a doctor who would be prescribing the hormones if you were to start testosterone? You could ask them about prescribing a lower dose. I am cis so have little knowledge of this, but I've heard some intersex people use a much lower dose of hormones to start looking masculine. Therefore, I reckon it should be possible to start on a low dose and see how it makes you look/feel. Unfortunately, some gender teams )the health clinics that provide the treatmetns for trans people, here in the Netherlands that's what they're called) are particularly binarist and against genderqueer/androgynous/anything not traditoinally male or female. Therefore, they might say you're not "really" trans if you want to be an androgynous guy. Which is, of course, quite a bit of bullcrap.

[zabz]

Deep breath!

Okay. So.

T is not a magical pill that induces huge, drastic, holyfuckwhatthehellisthis changes unless you work with it to do that. Transguys who look super manly have worked with T to become that way. T is like...a gateway to let you come off like a super manly guy if you want. Other people -- loads of people -- take T but don't want to look like The Rock, and so don't adopt a lifestyle to let that happen.

Think of it as if when you start taking T, you become a boy. If a boy sits playing video games all day, he is never-ever-ever going to look like a bodybuilder, even if he's got more testosterone in his blood than a lab at a major pharma company. It just won't happen. The same way a girl who eats her own body weight in chips every day is never going to look like Gwyneth Paltrow.

How your appearance changes on T is enormously dependent on your lifestyle. And it's slow. T is very slow-acting -- this guy has only been on it for a year, I would recommend looking at guys who've been on it for two or more years for a really accurate gauge of what it's done to them. One guy I know went seven months before his voice started to drop. It's not a quick thing. And a lot of its effects come on just as slowly, like body hair.

And bear in mind that a lot of transguys go on T and want to become manly, so they're working with that in mind. That's why it seems like it makes you manly, it's just that the majority of people on it want to look manly.

So your list (skipping androgyny, I'm afraid, as I'm not andro so I can't comment on that) --

I don't want lots of body hair -- this is based in genetics, so you will never truly 100% know this one until you do it. But lasering, waxing and shaving are all available to men too, and even the same family doesn't result in the same patterns. My brother has super hairy legs, nobody else in the whole family does. (I think he's a dustbin baby, but that's just me...) The hair will come on slowly so if it is getting a bit much, you could stop T or you can find ways of dealing with it over time. Little bushes won't just pop into being overnight, it's cool.

I don't want a beard -- shave. Initially it'll be all wispy and thin anyway at the beginning so you'll have lots of time to learn. Again, this takes a fair amount of time to come in properly. It's kind of like when a boy hits puberty. A cisgender boy who's going through puberty isn't just babyfaced one day and then BAM, looks like a LOTR dwarf. Same for transgender people going on T.

I don't want massive muscles -- if you don't work out, you won't get them. End of story. T makes it easier to build muscles, they don't just appear. A woman can be as muscular as a man if she works out in the right way, it just takes longer. T just shortens the amount of time it takes. The guy in that video is not doing weights down the gym six nights a week, so he isn't muscular. If you're a professional boxer and you're going on T, you're going to hulk out. It's that easy, it's just lifestyle and no different from the way it is right now.

I don't want to go bald -- genetics, and again, you won't know until the day comes, I'm afraid. Again, though, while T may make your hairline look more masculine, baldness doesn't seem to come on earlier in transgender folks than cisgender folks, so don't overstress about it.

I don't want to be unrecognizable to family or myself -- that is more a lifestyle thing than T. T will not overly change your physical build if you don't let it (e.g. musculator) and things like facial shape barely change at all. Your features won't change, your hands and feet don't grow, and if you wear similar clothing to what you do now, the biggest and most noticeable difference will probably be your voice.

Why are you considering T? (Sorry if this sounds rude, I don't mean it to!!) Like, what's your 'pros of going on T' list?

And relax! ^_^ It is confusing, but just do more research, talk to people in that scenario, get on sites like ftmuk and support forums and stuff, talk to people who've been there or are going through it now. They're really happy to talk to others about their experiences, the trans* community is really very good for that.

[Certified Cake Decorator]

Man i wish i had money for an endo appointment.

I want to look androgynous because I'm Neutrois.

I was thinking about using creme or gel from The International womens Clinic that sells the creme for like $30 a month without insurance!

Maybe try low dose creme or gel. That way you can immediately stop if you dont like the effects?

[zabz]

Man i wish i had money for an endo appointment.

I want to look androgynous because I'm Neutrois.

I was thinking about using creme or gel from The International womens Clinic that sells the creme for like $30 a month without insurance!

Maybe try low dose creme or gel. That way you can immediately stop if you dont like the effects?

Seriously, don't take medication without being under the care of someone who knows what they're doing. A doctor, a gender specialist, an endocrinologist, someone. Do not self-prescribe stuff that does enormous change to your bodily systems. You don't know how you will react or whether it's even safe for you to take it. T can cause a lot of side effects you will not know about until they happen, which is why you must consult an expert who knows your situation before you take it. I will have to have my blood pressure monitored when I start due to family history of circulation problems; a friend of mine from university was told he can't have it at all due to a problem he has with blood clots. It's not like popping a single aspirin, it's a long-term thing, it has medical consequences beyond becoming more masculine, and it reacts with your body and changes you, not always in a good way.

WARNING = POSSIBLE TMI BELOW

For example, T can make your clitoris grow a lot. Some guys have had to chuck out all their jeans and buy looser ones, it can grow that much and chafe against clothes that used to fit fine in the crotch. And if you don't like that, and come off T? It won't go back to the size it was before. It may not even shrink at all.

[ObsessedWithCats]

Yeah, what you're looking for is almost certainly possible but should absolutely and only be done under the guidance of someone whose job is to know and help you avoid any potential risks and pitfalls of this stuff.

I'm in a similar place* but I'm pretty sure the NHS only acknowledges binary transitions and I'm very much not binary >_< I'd like my voice a bit deeper but I'd not like to overshoot the ambiguous zone, and most of the other effects of T are meh to eww for me. Easier muscles would be cool though :3

eta *in terms of wanting some but not all of the effects of testosterone

[zabz]

Yeah, what you're looking for is almost certainly possible but should absolutely and only be done under the guidance of someone whose job is to know and help you avoid any potential risks and pitfalls of this stuff.

I'm in a similar place* but I'm pretty sure the NHS only acknowledges binary transitions and I'm very much not binary >_< I'd like my voice a bit deeper but I'd not like to overshoot the ambiguous zone, and most of the other effects of T are meh to eww for me. Easier muscles would be cool though :3

eta *in terms of wanting some but not all of the effects of testosterone

Obsessed, the NHS is veeeeeeeeery slowly waking up to nonbinary identities. At the minute, I believe it's more or less impossible to get surgery without hormone treatment, but you can get hormone treatment without surgery. I think. It's worth approaching them anyway, and you can always ask to be referred to an NHS gender specialist and further talk the matter through with them. They can advise on everything properly, whereas GPs tend to have little idea because they just don't see many transgender patients.

[ObsessedWithCats]

Yeah, what you're looking for is almost certainly possible but should absolutely and only be done under the guidance of someone whose job is to know and help you avoid any potential risks and pitfalls of this stuff.

I'm in a similar place* but I'm pretty sure the NHS only acknowledges binary transitions and I'm very much not binary >_< I'd like my voice a bit deeper but I'd not like to overshoot the ambiguous zone, and most of the other effects of T are meh to eww for me. Easier muscles would be cool though :3

eta *in terms of wanting some but not all of the effects of testosterone

Obsessed, the NHS is veeeeeeeeery slowly waking up to nonbinary identities. At the minute, I believe it's more or less impossible to get surgery without hormone treatment, but you can get hormone treatment without surgery. I think. It's worth approaching them anyway, and you can always ask to be referred to an NHS gender specialist and further talk the matter through with them. They can advise on everything properly, whereas GPs tend to have little idea because they just don't see many transgender patients.

Too right on GPs - I had the 'but 'they' is for groups of people' conversation with my GP last time I spoke to her :/ In any case top surgery is a bigger priority for me at the moment because I am absolutely 100% sure that every effect it has will be right for me. And like you said they're being slow but it looks like they'll catch up eventually - at the moment I'm waiting, hoping for a bit of progression on that and at least finishing dealing with exams before making any appointments. Probably useful to know about the relative likelihood of the possible order of things though, thanks :)

[Ronan2202]

Thanks for all the advice, it's really helpful! :D

And, yeah, the pros list, I forgot about that, lol:

Deeper voice - (I am kind of worried how deep it'll go, like, I don't want it as deep as Benedict Cumberbatch because that's too deep for me and would be weird since I'm short xD)

Fat re-distribution

"Lower region" growth - (I have a LOT of bottom dysphoria)

Breast shrinkage

Menstrual cycles stop - (I get an overwhelming amount of shame about this... I'll just start cutting myself so I can blame the blood on something other than that in case someone were to somehow find out)

I know choosing to transition without T doesn't make you any less male, but for me, I feel a bit sad when I see transguys on T and can't help but "wish" I were them:

[Ronan2202]

Would taking androgel (I'm not a fan of stabbing myself with needles O_O) every other day or once a week limit the "manliness?"

[Guest]

I do not agree that our flesh = our gender.. My gender is my personality.

I have body hair

I have beard

I don't have muscles

I am going bald

I don't want to be unrecognizable to family or myself
I see myself as a spirit. My body is just a shell. My body does not make me who I am. I think that TV and youtube give people bad ideas of what they should look like and the sort. No one has a right to tell me what I should look like to be who I am. About what is below the waist. I find myself having a lot of issues. I alway wear cloths that never fits tight. I am lucky I have no muscles. As a person who is feminine I do not mind being who I am.

[zabz]

Yeah, what you're looking for is almost certainly possible but should absolutely and only be done under the guidance of someone whose job is to know and help you avoid any potential risks and pitfalls of this stuff.

I'm in a similar place* but I'm pretty sure the NHS only acknowledges binary transitions and I'm very much not binary >_< I'd like my voice a bit deeper but I'd not like to overshoot the ambiguous zone, and most of the other effects of T are meh to eww for me. Easier muscles would be cool though :3

eta *in terms of wanting some but not all of the effects of testosterone

Obsessed, the NHS is veeeeeeeeery slowly waking up to nonbinary identities. At the minute, I believe it's more or less impossible to get surgery without hormone treatment, but you can get hormone treatment without surgery. I think. It's worth approaching them anyway, and you can always ask to be referred to an NHS gender specialist and further talk the matter through with them. They can advise on everything properly, whereas GPs tend to have little idea because they just don't see many transgender patients.

Too right on GPs - I had the 'but 'they' is for groups of people' conversation with my GP last time I spoke to her :/ In any case top surgery is a bigger priority for me at the moment because I am absolutely 100% sure that every effect it has will be right for me. And like you said they're being slow but it looks like they'll catch up eventually - at the moment I'm waiting, hoping for a bit of progression on that and at least finishing dealing with exams before making any appointments. Probably useful to know about the relative likelihood of the possible order of things though, thanks :)

Definitely see if you can wing an appointment with Gendercare then, Dr. Lorimer is really good about discussing doing things 'out of order' like that. I'm the same, I need the top surgery before the voice drop and the hair start showing up, or I'm in big trouble when it comes to passing. I don't know if they do NHS as I'm going private but if they don't, give them a ring anyway and ask if they can recommend an NHS specialist who is open to non-binary identities as they'll definitely know someone :)

[zabz]

[i'm off to work but I will pop back into this thread when I get home :) ]

[zabz]

Thanks for all the advice, it's really helpful! :D

And, yeah, the pros list, I forgot about that, lol:

Deeper voice - (I am kind of worried how deep it'll go, like, I don't want it as deep as Benedict Cumberbatch because that's too deep for me and would be weird since I'm short xD)

Fat re-distribution

"Lower region" growth - (I have a LOT of bottom dysphoria)

Breast shrinkage

Menstrual cycles stop - (I get an overwhelming amount of shame about this... I'll just start cutting myself so I can blame the blood on something other than that in case they were to somehow find out)

I know choosing to transition without T doesn't make you any less male, but for me, I feel a bit sad when I see transguys on T and can't help but "wish" I were them:

It won't go that deep ;) Cumberbatch has a deep voice even for a man, most transguys hit the middle range rather than very deep.

Bear in mind your 'lower region' is likely going to be super-sensitive once the T takes effect. Have a good long think about how that may affect you -- like for me, it wouldn't bother me at all beyond 'note to self: looser jeans' but for some ace people it might be potentially upsetting if the sensation gets more intense down there.

Your breasts as well might not actively shrink, and unfortunately the muscle across your chest will thicken slightly and push them out a bit. I've started working out (I'm going to get top surgery, and apparently the surgeon's job is a lot easier and your result is better if you have some chest muscle for the surgeon to work with re: where your nipples need to go after) and the muscle building under my breasts is pushing them out from my chest and making them look bigger. Bear that in mind too. If you're small enough you can wear a binder, you should be fine, but it's something to consider that in the long term they might actually look bigger, not smaller.

The rest is fairly non-problematic :) And don't let anybody tell you what you ought to do, be or feel in order to be trans! If you feel you need to take T to see yourself as a guy, then don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. This is about how you feel, what makes you happy with yourself, and what you need. Not other people.

[nerdperson777]

I feel the exact same thing about transition that you do. My gender identity is that of a pre/teen boy so I do not need the facial hair. My plan for transition is to take low dose T so the changes are slow. No plans for surgery since I have a pretty small chest and I bind, and my parents want grandchildren to pass on genes. I talked to my school's gender doctor, and she says that she has not seen hair loss for anyone so she's not too worried about that. I'm full Asian so my only visible body hair is leg hair if someone was actually staring directly at them from a few inches away. The doctor didn't expect too much hair from "my culture" either and you can shave it off like anyone can. Unfortunately, I can't tell you how I'll get to transition since my mom will not support me in that way, mainly because she thinks I'm going to turn into a man, which I'm not.

[J. van Deijck]

I want exactly the same, except that I'd love to grow some beard. One more thing thatmakes me hesitate is the fact that T makes sex drive increase reasonably, and that would be like a suicide to me. In fact, I still keep looking for the answer to al lthese questions.

[nerdperson777]

I want exactly the same, except that I'd love to grow some beard. One more thing thatmakes me hesitate is the fact that T makes sex drive increase reasonably, and that would be like a suicide to me. In fact, I still keep looking for the answer to al lthese questions.

Well, I think it depends on how your sex drive is currently. I don't think I even have one, so that never crossed my mind.

School gender doctor explains side effects, including sex drive.

Me: What if I don't have one?

Doctor: .... I'm not sure.

[J. van Deijck]

That's a question. If even doctors don't really know the answer, then how about us? Actually, my own sex drive is equal to 0 + I take SSRI meds, which are known for decreasing sex drive rather permanently.

[Jake25]

I do not agree that our flesh = our gender.. My gender is my personality.

I have body hair

I have beard

I don't have muscles

I am going bald

I don't want to be unrecognizable to family or myself

I see myself as a spirit. My body is just a shell. My body does not make me who I am. I think that TV and youtube give people bad ideas of what they should look like and the sort. No one has a right to tell me what I should look like to be who I am. About what is below the waist. I find myself having a lot of issues. I alway wear cloths that never fits tight. I am lucky I have no muscles. As a person who is feminine I do not mind being who I am.

I think it's good for people to express how they feel on the inside. Sometimes people need to alter themselves in order to do that. That's why I'm trans.

[Jake25]

I want exactly the same, except that I'd love to grow some beard. One more thing thatmakes me hesitate is the fact that T makes sex drive increase reasonably, and that would be like a suicide to me. In fact, I still keep looking for the answer to al lthese questions.

I have worried about the same thing with taking testosterone and sex drive. I guess I'll have to just ignore it or masturbate more.

[Guest Sheka4]

You could see a doctor and discuss with them about adjusting the dose of testosterone that you're getting to balance out what it is that you do and don't want.