One of these days I'm going to cut my dick off ... [Trigger Warning/ TMI]

[Light02]

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to transition and should learn how to get rid of their dysphoric thoughts instead?

I'm not a doctor, and I'll admit don't know much about transgenderism, so I won't say people shouldn't be allowed to transition. But I think a doctor should think very carefully about advising any kind of non-essential surgery for a patient.

However, I would also stress that I spoke about irrationality of dysphoria. Wanting to have sex reassignment surgery is not irrational. The reason is so the patient can be perceived as the opposite sex. The The OP's case is different, as he has no pressing *reason* to receive the surgery he desires. It seems to be irrational.

That is not the only reason. Another reason that people wish to transition is because they have body dysphoria. I don't know if it's irrational or not but I know that it's a serious issue for a lot of people and they can't just "get over it". It causes them panic attacks, depression and many other problems. I once spoke with a trans girl who told me that when she was five she took a pair of scissors and tried to cut off her penis. Body dysphoria is not just something that is in your head that you can get over with therapy. It's a real problem.

[Titus Oates]

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to transition and should learn how to get rid of their dysphoric thoughts instead?

I'm not a doctor, and I'll admit don't know much about transgenderism, so I won't say people shouldn't be allowed to transition. But I think a doctor should think very carefully about advising any kind of non-essential surgery for a patient.

However, I would also stress that I spoke about irrationality of dysphoria. Wanting to have sex reassignment surgery is not irrational. The reason is so the patient can be perceived as the opposite sex. The The OP's case is different, as he has no pressing *reason* to receive the surgery he desires. It seems to be irrational.

That is not the only reason. Another reason that people wish to transition is because they have body dysphoria. I don't know if it's irrational or not but I know that it's a serious issue for a lot of people and they can't just "get over it". It causes them panic attacks, depression and many other problems. I once spoke with a trans girl who told me that when she was five she took a pair of scissors and tried to cut off her penis. Body dysphoria is not just something that is in your head that you can get over with therapy. It's a real problem.

Mental problems ARE real problems. They originate in the brain, and that's where I would advocate doctors treating first. Dysphoria doesn't originate in the unwanted limb or appendage.

[Prairie]

Well, in general that kind of thinking is regarded as a kind of illness - if somebody hated their legs, or their nose, and wanted them to be cut off, do you think doctors should comply?

We can't all have what we want - sometimes we don't want what's good for us. People get preventative treatment to remove certain organs that may be prone to disease, but even that is often seen as extreme.

Rather, you should try to understand why you have those kind of urges and only then can you begin to look for a solution.

Ewww, why should it be up to others whether a person is allowed to modify their own body? Sure, doctors can't be required to assist, but to assume that a person is ill and must be restrained for their own good even though they aren't a threat to anyone strikes me as some kind of illness of the restrainer, not the restrainee. One only needs to look at history to see individuals hiding behind society to impose their view of health on those they deem unhealthy.

Some people might want to cut off their genitals for all kinds of reasons - perhaps they were taught as a child that they were the origins of all their sinful thoughts and that rather than suffer from temptation it's better to just cut it off. Should a doctor comply in that case? Or should she go deeper and use her professional judgement about what is best for the patient?

A person should never be forced to perform any procedure on anyone; it should always be voluntary. In my ideal world, a person who doctored others ("a doctor") would use their own judgment on a case-by-case basis, and if they didn't think they would help the client, they would simply say so "Sorry, I think this would make you worse-off, so I am not willing to perform it." rather than something like "This would harm you and you should go to a psych because you've got mental issues." which denies that this is simply the doctor's own assesment. The doctor's own assesment is all that's necessary for guiding the doctor's actions; no objective god-like view is necessary to pretend having.

Your privates are there for a number of reasons, and only one of those is sexual. Your other organs depend on those parts for several reasons.

This is my main objection to having any changes done (by a doctor, not DIY!) to my body. I've had good health and disrupting that permanently could be far worse than having what I think I want my body to look like. Now I'm not advising anyone else to take my path, because I recognize that they might benefit from body modification, or that I am overly squeamish about it, or whatever. I wouldn't be judgmental about someone else choosing a different path than me.

[Heart]

Why don't you go into science an do lots of biology , and learn about amputation and saftey , and get all the right thread , then maby you can DIY , sorry you feel this way . Hugs and cake :)

I'm going to pipe in here and STRONGLY discourage DIY surgery. Even if you were a professional surgeon with years of experience, getting ahold of all the right equipment and drugs needed for something like this is no small feat. Not to mention that doing surgery on yourself is worlds away from doing it on others; the drugs would be messing with your coordination, with your perception, with everything. And that's if you went through years of med school and residency. Just learning biology doesn't mean you can change your own in any safe manner.

Having said that, I know it can be tempting. It's all too tempting. I'm well known with one of my partners for telling him about my fantasies of cutting out my own uterus with an old, dull, rusty knife. That's how much hate I harbour against my own uterus when I swing towards the masculine side of my gender. It's hard, I get it.

Please though, please please please be safe.

~~~~

As another, unrelated note, I wanted to put in a notice about content to clear up a little misunderstanding I see on this thread. A thread like this is very much allowed on AVEN, especially in the gender forum. Talking about experiences with gender and body dysphoria are a part of why we're here. I appreciate that there is a trigger warning in the title, and that is how it should be. As long as we make it clear to all other members that the thread will contain graphic ideas of body changes, then this makes AVEN a safer place for those who would be triggered by such a discussion. Some members will choose to not come into this thread, because of that, and it is good that they were given the warning that they needed to make that decision and keep themselves mentally comfortable.

Let's keep AVEN as positive and safe a space as we can folks! I quite like it here :)

[Calligraphette_Coe]

This is my main objection to having any changes done (by a doctor, not DIY!) to my body. I've had good health and disrupting that permanently could be far worse than having what I think I want my body to look like. Now I'm not advising anyone else to take my path, because I recognize that they might benefit from body modification, or that I am overly squeamish about it, or whatever. I wouldn't be judgmental about someone else choosing a different path than me.

Like you, I'm for anyone taking any path as long as there is informed consent. I'm always somewhat saddened about the backlash that often comes from saying for oneself that My Mileage Varies, Both *I* AND my doctors agree I'm a perfectly BAD candidate for this. Or, in my case, hormones, too. People think you're making a political statement and react in manner almost partisan sometimes-- like you're an enemy who needs erasure.

I have yet to find an active online community of Non-Op, No HRT trans-individuals. The only one I know in existence right now hasn't gotten a post for a very long time. They're often targeted, too, by people who see them as a threat and send socks to disrupt them.

I'd be in anyone's debt if someone could steer me to a safe one? I sometimes come sooo close to going off the rails with my unrequited GID and could use someone who I know has been where I've been, felt what I felt, and won't take my lack of a transition as a repudiation of their path.

[butterflydreams]

This is my main objection to having any changes done (by a doctor, not DIY!) to my body. I've had good health and disrupting that permanently could be far worse than having what I think I want my body to look like. Now I'm not advising anyone else to take my path, because I recognize that they might benefit from body modification, or that I am overly squeamish about it, or whatever. I wouldn't be judgmental about someone else choosing a different path than me.

Like you, I'm for anyone taking any path as long as there is informed consent. I'm always somewhat saddened about the backlash that often comes from saying for oneself that My Mileage Varies, Both *I* AND my doctors agree I'm a perfectly BAD candidate for this. Or, in my case, hormones, too. People think you're making a political statement and react in manner almost partisan sometimes-- like you're an enemy who needs erasure.

I have yet to find an active online community of Non-Op, No HRT trans-individuals. The only one I know in existence right now hasn't gotten a post for a very long time. They're often targeted, too, by people who see them as a threat and send socks to disrupt them.

I'd be in anyone's debt if someone could steer me to a safe one? I sometimes come sooo close to going off the rails with my unrequited GID and could use someone who I know has been where I've been, felt what I felt, and won't take my lack of a transition as a repudiation of their path.

I'm very much in agreement with Prairie's assessment here. I'm glad to see someone else voicing that. All things considered, my body does operate pretty reasonably day-to-day without medical intervention. Maybe it comes from having parents who both needed day-to-day medical intervention to live (my mom in particular...it's very scary), but the idea of voluntarily putting myself in that position, even if it would improve my life substantially...I definitely balk at the idea. I guess it's a psychological thing, because even the antidepressants I take (that basically keep me even-keeled enough to not do bad things) make me uncomfortable. That's the hangup I have when thinking about hormones...to say nothing of GRS. I think that's an ok hangup to have. Working through my depression though has shown me that those feelings aren't immutable.

So yes, you can even have real fears and hesitations about things despite KNOWING they do or would improve your life. Those are things we all have to work though.

And Zen, obviously I'm not going to doubt or give anyone crap based on how they decide to transition. The notion that anyone would is ludicrous to me. How does that help anyone? It doesn't help the individual. It doesn't help the trans community. It doesn't help create allies. And it doesn't help people who are just starting to question themselves. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

I wish I knew of some community or forum that was more targeted to non-op, non-HRT, trans people. Unfortunately, I can imagine them being targeted as you describe. I don't even know why a community, especially one made up primarily of trans people would even distinguish between non-op, non-HRT, or whatever. You tell me you're trans? You're trans. Why would you lie about it? For all the great stock options and profit sharing benefits?!?!

Your transition, and your body are none of my business or anyone else's. That's between you, yourself, and maybe your doctor.

[Prairie]

obviously I'm not going to doubt or give anyone crap based on how they decide to transition. The notion that anyone would is ludicrous to me. How does that help anyone? It doesn't help the individual. It doesn't help the trans community. It doesn't help create allies. And it doesn't help people who are just starting to question themselves. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

A bullied-turn-bully pattern I've noticed before comes to mind here. People are oppressive towards you. You see them as having power over you and give in to them. Then you see people who are like you but are not giving into pressure to conform. The resentment at thinking you have to conform comes out as bullying of those who aren't, who seem to be avoiding the bully while you bear the cost.

[dash]

obviously I'm not going to doubt or give anyone crap based on how they decide to transition. The notion that anyone would is ludicrous to me. How does that help anyone? It doesn't help the individual. It doesn't help the trans community. It doesn't help create allies. And it doesn't help people who are just starting to question themselves. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

A bullied-turn-bully pattern I've noticed before comes to mind here. People are oppressive towards you. You see them as having power over you and give in to them. Then you see people who are like you but are not giving into pressure to conform. The resentment at thinking you have to conform comes out as bullying of those who aren't, who seem to be avoiding the bully while you bear the cost.

THIS, thank you.

Also chiming in to say how sad I am to see how much "this is mental problem and you should get mental help" is being voiced here. I'm not against counseling -- by someone who actually understands gender diversity and will act as an ally for their clients/patients -- but I am bothered by armchair psychologizing about trans lives, especially by cis people.

Also, the other problem with "it should be up to the individual doctors" is that when there is a very strong cultural bias toward "no," the effect is a complete denial of services by default (unless one has oodles of money to travel for surgery). Similar though also different: actual (versus on paper) access to abortion services in the US today.

How many surgeons have the training to do this surgery? If the few in your area all say no, you have no access. (And then when trans people kill themselves, the system goes "oh, they had mental health problems, it was their illness, not our refusal to treat them!")

[Kurage]

This discussion has gone in the direction I was suspecting.

Moving this thread from Asexual Musings and Rantings to Gender Discussion.

Steph

Asexual Musings and Ratings Moderator.

Cheers steph. ¦ )

[Kurage]

Why don't you go into science an do lots of biology , and learn about amputation and saftey , and get all the right thread , then maby you can DIY , sorry you feel this way . Hugs and cake :)

I dunno who you are but i love you. I haven't laughed quite this hard in a a bit but nah. Long story short there are quite a few reasons why surgery isn't usually self-performed the least of which is the part where you're literally having to psyche yourself up to cut off a considerable chunk of yourself by yourself and that's not a very common ability. Cheers anyway charlotte. ¦D

[Kurage]

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to transition and should learn how to get rid of their dysphoric thoughts instead?

I'm not a doctor, and I'll admit don't know much about transgenderism, so I won't say people shouldn't be allowed to transition. But I think a doctor should think very carefully about advising any kind of non-essential surgery for a patient.

However, I would also stress that I spoke about irrationality of dysphoria. Wanting to have sex reassignment surgery is not irrational. The reason is so the patient can be perceived as the opposite sex. The The OP's case is different, as he has no pressing *reason* to receive the surgery he desires. It seems to be irrational.

Well i suppose I can think of a few rather more pressing reasons to get rid of the aforementioned bits but if we were already moved o the TMI section i'd dread to think where we'd end up if I went into too much detail. Just trust that it's safe to say that not all the reasons for me liking this idea are cosmetic.

[Kurage]

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to transition and should learn how to get rid of their dysphoric thoughts instead?

I'm not a doctor, and I'll admit don't know much about transgenderism, so I won't say people shouldn't be allowed to transition. But I think a doctor should think very carefully about advising any kind of non-essential surgery for a patient.

However, I would also stress that I spoke about irrationality of dysphoria. Wanting to have sex reassignment surgery is not irrational. The reason is so the patient can be perceived as the opposite sex. The The OP's case is different, as he has no pressing *reason* to receive the surgery he desires. It seems to be irrational.

That is not the only reason. Another reason that people wish to transition is because they have body dysphoria. I don't know if it's irrational or not but I know that it's a serious issue for a lot of people and they can't just "get over it". It causes them panic attacks, depression and many other problems. I once spoke with a trans girl who told me that when she was five she took a pair of scissors and tried to cut off her penis. Body dysphoria is not just something that is in your head that you can get over with therapy. It's a real problem.

[Kurage]

This is my main objection to having any changes done (by a doctor, not DIY!) to my body. I've had good health and disrupting that permanently could be far worse than having what I think I want my body to look like. Now I'm not advising anyone else to take my path, because I recognize that they might benefit from body modification, or that I am overly squeamish about it, or whatever. I wouldn't be judgmental about someone else choosing a different path than me.

I have yet to find an active online community of Non-Op, No HRT trans-individuals. The only one I know in existence right now hasn't gotten a post for a very long time. They're often targeted, too, by people who see them as a threat and send socks to disrupt them.

Pardon my ignorance but do you mean that people send other people socks to disrupt them or am I missing a vital detail here? Usually I'd think being sent socks would be an alright thing unless they were sent in copius amounts/the wrong size/terrible colour choices etc.

[Kurage]

I am already seeing a psychologist on an unrelated matter and she seemed quite perturbed at the amount of research I've put into this (i.e any at all) and yet was still perfectly comfrotable with discussion the situation with me after confirming that I wasn't at risk of all of a sudden hacking away at them at them. She seemed to note it interesting that I refer to them as bits whereas if I talk about anyone else's genitalia I'll give use g rated colloquials or scientific terms.

I remember even before the ... sleepover incident someone referred to my area as my "happy place," to which I had the reaction of wanting to go and sit in the nearest rubbish bin for not feeling like a normal person (some more context may be necessary).

All in all it's too much of a hassle to even think about trying to get anything done about it anytime soon (unless my psych can come up with something) so most of the arguments about it are fairly moot until genital removal becomes a less squicky idea and perhaps medical science/technology becomes sufficiently advanced to allow for transplant/donation to become viable.

[jimerman]

i don't want to be to critical or insult you in any way, but wanting to be someone else is one thing hatting a part of you and wanting it removed just to get rid of it is another. mainly "because they frequently anger and/or disgust me." that sounds like something really important that you need to figure out why you feel so bad about a part of yourself. i have many trans friends who just feel like they are in the wrong body but i don't know about outright disgust of yourself.

[Titus Oates]

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to transition and should learn how to get rid of their dysphoric thoughts instead?

I'm not a doctor, and I'll admit don't know much about transgenderism, so I won't say people shouldn't be allowed to transition. But I think a doctor should think very carefully about advising any kind of non-essential surgery for a patient.

However, I would also stress that I spoke about irrationality of dysphoria. Wanting to have sex reassignment surgery is not irrational. The reason is so the patient can be perceived as the opposite sex. The The OP's case is different, as he has no pressing *reason* to receive the surgery he desires. It seems to be irrational.

That is not the only reason. Another reason that people wish to transition is because they have body dysphoria. I don't know if it's irrational or not but I know that it's a serious issue for a lot of people and they can't just "get over it". It causes them panic attacks, depression and many other problems. I once spoke with a trans girl who told me that when she was five she took a pair of scissors and tried to cut off her penis. Body dysphoria is not just something that is in your head that you can get over with therapy. It's a real problem.

But, like I said, no other type of dysphoria is EVER treated by removing the body part in question. Because it's not the body part causing the distress, it's the brain.

[Kurage]

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to transition and should learn how to get rid of their dysphoric thoughts instead?

I'm not a doctor, and I'll admit don't know much about transgenderism, so I won't say people shouldn't be allowed to transition. But I think a doctor should think very carefully about advising any kind of non-essential surgery for a patient.

However, I would also stress that I spoke about irrationality of dysphoria. Wanting to have sex reassignment surgery is not irrational. The reason is so the patient can be perceived as the opposite sex. The The OP's case is different, as he has no pressing *reason* to receive the surgery he desires. It seems to be irrational.

That is not the only reason. Another reason that people wish to transition is because they have body dysphoria. I don't know if it's irrational or not but I know that it's a serious issue for a lot of people and they can't just "get over it". It causes them panic attacks, depression and many other problems. I once spoke with a trans girl who told me that when she was five she took a pair of scissors and tried to cut off her penis. Body dysphoria is not just something that is in your head that you can get over with therapy. It's a real problem.

But, like I said, no other type of dysphoria is EVER treated by removing the body part in question. Because it's not the body part causing the distress, it's the brain.

So you're saying I should get my brain removed?

[Calligraphette_Coe]

This is my main objection to having any changes done (by a doctor, not DIY!) to my body. I've had good health and disrupting that permanently could be far worse than having what I think I want my body to look like. Now I'm not advising anyone else to take my path, because I recognize that they might benefit from body modification, or that I am overly squeamish about it, or whatever. I wouldn't be judgmental about someone else choosing a different path than me.

I have yet to find an active online community of Non-Op, No HRT trans-individuals. The only one I know in existence right now hasn't gotten a post for a very long time. They're often targeted, too, by people who see them as a threat and send socks to disrupt them.

Pardon my ignorance but do you mean that people send other people socks to disrupt them or am I missing a vital detail here? Usually I'd think being sent socks would be an alright thing unless they were sent in copius amounts/the wrong size/terrible colour choices etc.

'Socks' is shorthand in Internet parlance for 'sock puppet', or a sham account/user name which can be used in a 'false flag' operation by people wanting to shut a site down because they vehemently oppose it. They can also be used to gather information on people the bad guys/stalkers later intend to doxx ( out by publishing personal details, etc, etc). It can also be like a political form of spear phishing.

I think there's a forum at the bottom of the list where the mods publish people who have been banned? There are a lot of accounts exposed and booted for being 'socks'. So, it happens here, too.

Some people hate so gladly and so much they'll resort to almost anything. It's one of the things that makes being even a little out as trans very dangerous.

[Prairie]

But, like I said, no other type of dysphoria is EVER treated by removing the body part in question. Because it's not the body part causing the distress, it's the brain.

So you're saying I should get my brain removed?

Hahahahahahaha.

Seriously, you just need to have your very core being/mind/brain changed so that your precious body can be kept pristine in order to not upset those around you. On the other hand, if you want to have fat removed, your face rearranged, or fake fat added to your chest (unless you have the wrong genitals for that, then it's your brain at fault again), etc. then come on into our offices tomorrow and we'll start making plans! /sarcasm

[dash]

i don't want to be to critical or insult you in any way, but wanting to be someone else is one thing hatting a part of you and wanting it removed just to get rid of it is another. mainly "because they frequently anger and/or disgust me." that sounds like something really important that you need to figure out why you feel so bad about a part of yourself. i have many trans friends who just feel like they are in the wrong body but i don't know about outright disgust of yourself.

There are many different experiences of gender dysphoria. Just because some trans people don't feel the same way as the OP, doesn't mean the OP's experience of gender/body dysphoria is somehow "less valid" than the other people's experiences, or that the OP "needs therapy to find out why" they feel that way any more than another trans person does.

Trans activist Janet Mock takes on the "wrong body" narrative of transness here:

http://janetmock.com/2012/07/09/josie-romero-dateline-transgender-trapped-body/

[Calligraphette_Coe]

Some days, if feels like I'm a political prisoner of The Evolutionary Psychological Hegemony, under constant writ of habeas corpus.

[Kurage]

After much deliberation, introspection and an amount of discussion with a psychologist I can safely say that my bits are the root (pun accidental) cause of 80% of my problems involving interactions with other human beings.

I crave physical and emotional affection because of intermediate to high levels of stress and also because apparently that's how I was put together. Because of a unintended lessons in youth, mixed in a with a healthy dose of peer pressure and a dash of overexaggerated social awareness It's something that I, subconciously, am unable to accept, even when willingly proffered.

You tell your child that the worst thing you can do to someone is touch their 'special areas,' even by accident and not mentioning that some people in the future may actually want/ask you to do so ...

When a family member sees you don't have a shirt on, because it's summer and the heat is unbearable, or are wearing shorts and you're starting to grow leg hair and they say "No one wants to see that."

Telling a child who is holding on to their groin, because they need to go to the bathroom, that they're being a grot/being a gross child/doing something shameful.

You wouldn't joke to a bulimic person that they're looking a little chubby.

Small decisions on your part can lead to the formation of another person's entire life (or end one prematurely) and it's usually done offhandedly.

One of the biggest reasons I'd love to be rid of these things between my legs is that they're keeping me from being close with people I love. I can't sleep comfortable around another person let alone next to them for fear that they'll see it rearing it's ugly head of a morning (as happens with most guys) or, even worse I wake up and it's touching them/they're touching it. This may seem like an uncontrollable thing but that's what the problem is. The last time someone else touched there I was nearly crying because of how shameful/disgusting/uncomfortable it was felt to me (and that wasn't even because it was non-consentual).

I could keep going on and on about why I would be actually able to live my life quite happily (possibly moreso than before) without them but this is already a wall of text and I feel like enough of a disturbed individual, who should be happy with/more appreciative of what I have, already.

TL;DR I vehemently dislike my bits and would be glad to donate them.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

One of the biggest reasons I'd love to be rid of these things between my legs is that they're keeping me from being close with people I love. I can't sleep comfortable around another person let alone next to them for fear that they'll see it rearing it's ugly head of a morning (as happens with most guys) or, even worse I wake up and it's touching them/they're touching it. This may seem like an uncontrollable thing but that's what the problem is. The last time someone else touched there I was nearly crying because of how shameful/disgusting/uncomfortable it was felt to me (and that wasn't even because it was non-consentual).

Yeah, that's a toughie. I have no good advice on how to deal with it, I struggle with that too as an untransitioned transgendered person. Every which way you turn, it seems sometimes, you hit the brick wall of Evolutionary Psychology hard wired into most people and we're like an unintended variable in that equation that doesn't compute. It's a minefield of pheromones, sexual tension, gender territorialism and a few others. But mostly, it's that brick wall in 3D space.

It's a bit different online, and you may have just really lucked out when you decided to sign up for AVEN. Asexuals are a bit more likely to be able to compartmentalize the sexual tension so that it doesn't interfere with the platonic relationships you seek.

It's almost like those bits come to be no more important than one's appendix is--- nobody asks "Do you still have yours?" because the question is mostly irrelevant. And not even a factor.

[Prairie]

It's almost like those bits come to be no more important than one's appendix is--- nobody asks "Do you still have yours?" because the question is mostly irrelevant. And not even a factor.

What a great way of framing it. People tend to view the appendix (and tonsils) as useless (because SCIENCE!) so relating it to that really undercuts their argument about how messed up one must be to want to get rid of *those* bits (not those, ANYTHING BUT THOSE!!!!). Ahem. Much worse than an appendix anyway, because it gets in the way of clothing, etc. constantly.

[Kurage]

This is why I love forums (especially this one) and getting external opinions because sometimes I just can't cobble the right words together to form a coherent and easy to understand analogy for how something feels and why it is that way. Thank you all so much for being here. If it doesn't seem too corny I'd like to say that I love you all for taking time to engage in this conversation and for letting an overemotional adolescent to realise they aren't completely bonkers for feeling the way they do.

I'm going be able to much more easily and thoroughly discuss this with my psych and sleep better after getting more than a few weights off my chest (no puns intended but welcomed).

Cheers all.

[Prairie]

I'm going be able to much more easily and thoroughly discuss this with my psych and sleep better after getting more than a few weights off my chest (no puns intended but welcomed).

In the past the few times I had gone to counselors, I was so self-censoring and uneasy that I couldn't really assert myself with confidence. Having confidence that you are sane makes it far easier to talk coherently and not get sidetracked worrying whether the other person is even believing it. Nowadays I can usually not even care whether they believe it, and view it entirely as their own limitation if they respond with puzzlement. There are other people out there if this one is unable to hear. Maybe I can help them understand, but if they show too much resistance, they have personal work to do and it's not my obligation to be their therapist just so I can get an open mind to listen. :)

[Calligraphette_Coe]

It's almost like those bits come to be no more important than one's appendix is--- nobody asks "Do you still have yours?" because the question is mostly irrelevant. And not even a factor.

What a great way of framing it. People tend to view the appendix (and tonsils) as useless (because SCIENCE!) so relating it to that really undercuts their argument about how messed up one must be to want to get rid of *those* bits (not those, ANYTHING BUT THOSE!!!!). Ahem. Much worse than an appendix anyway, because it gets in the way of clothing, etc. constantly.

That, and nobody defines anybody else because of the state of having or not having those vistigial organs, which for those of us with GID * is * a defining body part. Unfortunately for us, those bits serve other vital systems and purposes. That still doesn't obviate the fact that they cause us sorrow and discomfort. I soooo wish science would find a safe and effective neutrosis-functional hormone/agent for those of us who can't go the regular route.

This is why I love forums (especially this one) and getting external opinions because sometimes I just can't cobble the right words together to form a coherent and easy to understand analogy for how something feels and why it is that way. Thank you all so much for being here. If it doesn't seem too corny I'd like to say that I love you all for taking time to engage in this conversation and for letting an overemotional adolescent to realise they aren't completely bonkers for feeling the way they do.

I'm going be able to much more easily and thoroughly discuss this with my psych and sleep better after getting more than a few weights off my chest (no puns intended but welcomed).

Cheers all.

Imagine growing up in a time and place before the internet, of having to sort this all out on one's own in shame and secrecy, thinking one was the only one who felt this way. I used to bury notes in a bottles in remote cornfields, hoping that some future generation would find them.

I recently saw a bumper sticker that brought tears to my eyes:

Never again will one generation of _______ people abandon another.

I said it before and it bears repeating: For those of us who went this alone, it is the First Duty to help those who come along later to understand that others came before you and you no longer have to feel alone and abandoned.