Mietsiekat Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hello Everyone... I read through numerous threads in the past week and came to realize that alot of questions are centered around either 'what sexuals see in sex', 'what is it with sexuals and sex(also boobs,butts etc)' or 'why they need sex'. I feel the need to express myself on this issue in the context of marriage especially. (Why in marriage esp? Because of the fact that two individuals made a consentuous decision that they want to spend the rest of their lives with one person in particular.)! By writing this I want to express my feelings and views on sex as a sexual, give a little more insight to asexuals on the subject of sex and maybe give sexuals a better way to explain their feelings to their partner. I am not a psychologist, but a real sexual (woman) who deals with alot of these emotions daily. I am sure some people will agree and some won't! I am also not attacking anyone in any way!!! So here goes... I would like to start by explainig what marriage means to me... When two people marry they have make a decision that they choose one person to be their life long companion. That means a best friend, a support system, a lover, a shoulder to cry on, someone to listen when no one else wants to, someone who will protect your heart, and most importantly someone you can trust to be honest even in the worst of circumstances. Sex to sexuals(in this context) is not seen as a physical deed, something that we do only to get physical gratification. It's more complicated than that. This is where sex is no longer just sex anymore, and then turns into making love with your partner. Okay so I see alot of eyerolling and thoughts that these two things are the same. They however are not. The latter means that emotions are connected to our every action during this process we share with our partners. And you might think so it is with kissing, holding hands, cuddling spending time with your partner...Then I ask asexuals what then seperates your husband or wife from your dearest friend whom you greet with a kiss, your sister who's hand you held as a child and the mother you cuddled when she went through a bad seperation? The answer is physically NOTHING! When sexuals share a sexual act with a spouse we break down our strongholds, we lay our emotions bare for the world to see, we become totally vunerable in the hands of that one person. We give ourselves to you completely as and act of the deepest emotionally connected form of love possible. This is the closest form of intamacy for us. This one thing we share with you seperates us from the rest. It is not the act of sex but the feeling of intimacy that we crave. Why does a lack of sex upset us so much? Well mostly because we share ourselves wholeheartedly and with rejection we feel that our spouses dont share our level of love and emotions. This is heartbreaking. This to us is the most pure form of love. And we are giving it only to recieve nothing in return. We become self concious and self esteem drops and then we start looking for a solution...'am I too fat, does my breath smell, am I generally not attractive enough'...and all because we need that extra intimacy which we are denied because sex is seen as a 'fruitless unpleasureable act'. We need and crave deeper intimacy, we are not nymphomaniacs, or sex obsessed sociopaths. And some of us love your butt because its your sexiest asset or your boobs because they make you feminine etc. We are not born with a sex manual in hand, so when we do something a bit rough or too often(due to a lack of experience), educate us and experiment with us until we discover what works best for both of us rather than rejecting us. Relationships are about 50% compromise on both sides concerning all aspects! So why does your asexuality suddenly get classed as something with more substance than his/her sexuality? For example: You absolutely love the outdoors, but your partner has recently admitted he/she is too jealous to have anyone else see you. He/She locks you in a room and only lets you out on his/her terms once a month...would you feel loved and respected? (Edit - Lets say ignore the above example and use the following as this is something we can relate to: You have always enjoyed eating steak with your partner,because its something that they proved to you could be enjoyable when they introduced you to it. After years of good steak memories your partner goes vegan an does not want you to cook steak anymore. They give you no reason and leave you wondering and yearning for steak. I am suddenly afraid to say this in fear of being attacked again. But maybe its a better example) This is what 'ALLOWING' your partner sex once a month feels like. I say the word compromise again. Is it really so much to ask for something we emotionally crave once a week. To show us the love we hear about but rarely truely intimately experience. That is 52 days a year where you share yourself with us in comparison to the 313 days we suffer emotionally. Even an unfair compromise like that would sit just fine with our hearts. (Here by allowing I was referring to statements made in previous threads by people which yes made me think of a calender...i feel its unfair to do it that way. I for one would never force my husband into anything...but he doesnt have a problem with sex just frequency issues...I am begging for a bit more compromise from him here...But in the confusion of not knowing what is going on it is very possible to think of sex daily in trying to find some type of solution! I maybe phrased it wrong not knowing it came out harsh.) We love you everyday of our sexual lives because you are our one and only. Our beginning and our end. The box where our hearts lie. Please try to understand our weird ways and help us where we go wrong. (Edit as promised) I never intended to attack anyone of a special orientation...simply to explain that sex is not just sex to us. Before meeting my husband I was in a sexually and verbally abusive relationship where I was forced into believing I liked things that I hated. I completely understand what it feels like to find sex demeaning. I met my husband and he showed me how beautiful it could be if and when someone handles you with care. I married a man who is a wonderful person but he suddenly after marriage stopped showing me affection. I never for one second new what I had done or what the reason was for it. I was lucky enough (and even now) to maybe once in two months! so by no means am I sex obsessed. He recently identified as Gray. I would even be happy with once in two weeks if that. So please everyone I do understand both sides and I am sorry for making it seem one sided) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 ... Relationships are about 50% compromise on both sides concerning all aspects! So why does your asexuality suddenly get classed as something with more substance than his/her sexuality? For example: You absolutely love the outdoors, but your partner has recently admitted he/she is too jealous to have anyone else see you. He/She locks you in a room and only lets you out on his/her terms once a month...would you feel loved and respected? ... Comparing lack of sex with something that sounds like a prison might be a bit harsh, don't you think? Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainPugwash Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 At the end of the day I think you are comparing apples and oranges. I would never be in a relationship with someone who wanted sex ( and I would never get married for different reason although connected) for me it's that simple...but its glaringly obvious how different every man and women is with this topic. Best thing is to know someone is asexual before getting too far down the road. Link to post Share on other sites
Dragon Wolf Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It's good to see different sides when it comes to these matters, but it's not as simple as you make it out to be. I don't believe the majority of sexual people suffer every single day they do not get to have sex. Not every aspect of a relationship can be compromised in a way that both parties are satisfied. Say you have a sexual, who prefers to have sex at least three times a week, but is willing to compromise to once a week. That may seem fair enough or even a bit unfair to the sexual, but imagine that this particular asexual is repulsed by sex, and feels very uncomfortable and upset when forced to partake in it. In a situation like this, it would be completely wrong to pressure the asexual to have sex with you, even if you felt your offering was justified, when it would cause them so much distress. It would not be an act of love, as this would be using the asexual for your own personal gain, when they clearly were not getting anything but bad feelings from it. If the asexual did not mind sex and was willing to compromise for the sake of the relationship then fine, but forcing someone to have sex when they are so unwilling is actually rape, regardless of whether you are married to them or not. This is why it is important to establish boundaries before any such commitment is made, and if things don't work out, then it would be in the best interest of each person to go their own separate ways. Link to post Share on other sites
Fire & Rain Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The answer is physically NOTHING! When sexuals share a sexual act with a spouse we break down our strongholds, we lay our emotions bare for the world to see, we become totally vunerable in the hands of that one person. We give ourselves to you completely as and act of the deepest emotionally connected form of love possible. This is the closest form of intamacy for us. This one thing we share with you seperates us from the rest. This is just me though. I don't hug or cuddle or kiss with anyone else but my partner because they are the only one in this whole world I'm sensually attracted to. I've given to him the level of emotional and physical intimacy that I've never given to anyone in my life. So from my point of view sex is still not important and it's possible for an asexual to have non-sexual exclusivity with a sexual partner. Just my two cents :P Link to post Share on other sites
Mietsiekat Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Okay let me quickly clarify... I am speaking purely to those who arent repulsed by sex, find it demeaning etc. Maybe more to those who do enjoy sex to some extent just prefer less of it for whatever reason. LOL..yes my example might be exaggerated, but its just an example not a comparison. Link to post Share on other sites
Fire & Rain Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Okay let me quickly clarify... I am speaking purely to those who arent repulsed by sex, find it demeaning etc. Maybe more to those who do enjoy sex to some extent just prefer less of it for whatever reason. LOL..yes my example might be exaggerated, but its just an example not a comparison. The level of their libido might be a factor. Link to post Share on other sites
Tessc Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Maybe it's the fact that I'm so open to sex despite not needing it, but I think this is actually mostly worded quite well. I agree with your definition of marriage and the emotional connection there. The intimacy of the emotional connection of only being with one person is understandable as well. Having different opinions on this site is something that's actually quite needed (in my opinion, anyway.) However, a lot of aces I've seen who have sex with their sexual partners don't really complain about it. It's something they don't crave or need, but if they're willing to have sex then obviously they're not repulsed by it. Maybe I just read it wrong, but anyone who is repulsed or really unwilling to have sex probably shouldn't get into a relationship with a sexual. It's simply not fair. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneMoon Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Relationships are about 50% compromise on both sides concerning all aspects! So why does your asexuality suddenly get classed as something with more substance than his/her sexuality? For example: You absolutely love the outdoors, but your partner has recently admitted he/she is too jealous to have anyone else see you. He/She locks you in a room and only lets you out on his/her terms once a month...would you feel loved and respected? This is what 'ALLOWING' your partner sex once a month feels like. I say the word compromise again. Is it really so much to ask for something we emotionally crave once a week. To show us the love we hear about but rarely truely intimately experience. That is 52 days a year where you share yourself with us in comparison to the 313 days we suffer emotionally. Even an unfair compromise like that would sit just fine with our hearts. We love you everyday of our sexual lives because you are our one and only. Our beginning and our end. The box where our hearts lie. Please try to understand our weird ways and help us where we go wrong. You're right that relationships are about compromise but you can't speak for every sexual or every asexual when you contrast them and comparing a lack of sex to violating human rights is perhaps not the best choice for describing your feelings. I understand you wanted to describe to the point just how important sex feels to you, but it's a given that if you use a comparison like locking someone in a room, people are going to interpret it as saying "sexual people's feelings are more important than asexuals' so asexuals owe others sex, because they're the ones lacking a normal human trait." I understand you probably didn't mean it like that but that's how we are made to feel everyday by the majority, so saying things that way doesn't really help most asexuals who have a hard time getting over the guilt they feel because they think there's something wrong with them if they can't satisfy their partners, even when they technically already know they shouldn't feel like that, and that their feelings matter too. Maybe you do understand this, but it would help if you also showed more understanding for the asexual part in your description. Like, do you understand how it feels to hear a partner say they don't feel loved? It definitely doesn't hurt any less than not feeling loved hurts you. It's just unfortunate that in certain cases even when people do love each other just as deeply, they're sometimes not willing to understand the laguage the other one uses to express it and sometimes they're just not capable of understanding it. Of course, this applies to all other areas of a relationship as well. But yeah, maybe you should clarify your message is meant specifically to asexuals who personally feel like they don't understand their partner's needs AND are indifferent/positive towards having sex. Link to post Share on other sites
aisu_hawk Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Maybe it's the fact that I'm so open to sex despite not needing it, but I think this is actually mostly worded quite well. I agree with your definition of marriage and the emotional connection there. The intimacy of the emotional connection of only being with one person is understandable as well. Having different opinions on this site is something that's actually quite needed (in my opinion, anyway.) However, a lot of aces I've seen who have sex with their sexual partners don't really complain about it. It's something they don't crave or need, but if they're willing to have sex then obviously they're not repulsed by it. Maybe I just read it wrong, but anyone who is repulsed or really unwilling to have sex probably shouldn't get into a relationship with a sexual. It's simply not fair. Although I do feel that some of this original post is worded pretty strongly, and the example is a bit too far - I do agree with some of what is being said. The only reason I can say that is because I'm demisexual and not strictly asexual (or repulsed - as stated above it's simply not fair for a repulsed to get into a relationship with a sexual (unless maybe they're poly and it's all consensual and their partner can have their needs met elsewhere) - and I understand the wanting of sex....eventually. I like sex, it's fun, and intimate - but by no means do I suffer every day that I don't get any from my partner. I absolutely consider myself a single view among many within this topic, and can clearly see both sides - which is why I agree that the relationship (all relationships, in theory) should be a 50/50 compromise. However as a final statement: no one should ever be forced to do something they do not want to do, including sex even when married, and a main part of any relationship is communication. Link to post Share on other sites
Fajita with Pretty OK Hair Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I still don't get it. Link to post Share on other sites
Zapstileon Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Relationships are about 50% compromise on both sides concerning all aspects! So why does your asexuality suddenly get classed as something with more substance than his/her sexuality? For example: You absolutely love the outdoors, but your partner has recently admitted he/she is too jealous to have anyone else see you. He/She locks you in a room and only lets you out on his/her terms once a month...would you feel loved and respected? Of course relationships are about compromise. And here's how that worked when I was in a relationship with a sexual; they got sex whenever they wanted it. If I didn't want sex, I suddenly didn't care about them enough to "even give them that". My asexuality has never taken precedence over someone's sexuality. But others sexuality has always taken precedence over my asexuality. I have always had to do something I don't want in order to compromise. Okay, so I am not sex repulsed. That is not to say it doesn't make me uncomfortable to be in that situation. I am not repulsed by blood either, but if I were in a situation with someone bleeding out on the floor, I wouldn't exactly be comfortable. The thing with putting it like this: "You absolutely love the outdoors, but your partner has recently admitted he/she is too jealous to have anyone else see you. He/She locks you in a room and only lets you out on his/her terms once a month...would you feel loved and respected?" You are basically ignoring that if we compromise with you, and do have sex, then we become the outdoorsy people trapped in a room, only to get out on our partners' terms. A compromise does not work like that. If two people, one sexual and one asexual cannot figure out a way not to trap each other in rooms, ultimately, that relationship is not healthy. A compromise means that one person is not necessarily happy with the outcome. In a balanced relationship, it would mean you were both trapped in a room, and you both had to go outside for a given period of time a few times a month. That's how we meet half way. If you compare a compromise on sex to a jealous lover who keeps their partner locked in a room, then I don't think you've been doing it right. :P For me, a compromise would be that we meet halfway. But I've already tried 'mixed' relationships, and I've found they end worse than they start off. I am sure there are people who can make it work, but I am not one of them. Unless my partner is willing to be in an open relationship of some sort, where they can go and have sex with people other than me, or alternately that they have sex with someone and I just... I dunno, sit nearby with a book (because that's totally not creepy...), then I can't be with a sexual person, because I don't much like being uncomfortable for the sake of someone else's comfort. Occasionally, maybe. But not as often as it seems sexuals would like. There is another point to this, the "feeling loved" part. I am personally really bad at telling people I care for them. I am not likely to say "I love you" because those words, to me, mean nothing. I am not likely to hug you or kiss you or lavish you with gifts. I am likely to forget anniversaries and Valentine's days, or to ignore birthdays (the purpose of which I have never comprehended). I am likely to appear disinterested and cold (I have been told). None of this means I don't deeply care about someone. I might show it differently, however. I've had relationships end because partners thought I didn't care about them at all. They did not feel loved. But I did everything in my power to show them I did care. I wanted them to be a part of my world. I showed them things I cared about, I took them places I loved. I didn't know how else to do it. I could repeat the words "I love you" like a parrot, they meant nothing to me. Hearing them made no difference either. We just couldn't communicate on that front. I wanted to share my world with them. They wanted to hear the words. Words that didn't mean anything to me. So as for not feeling loved... I cannot, and will not, show that I love someone by having sex with them. I am likely to terminate a relationship if it turns out we cannot agree on something as simple as showing each other that we love each other. Showing affection should not be a compromise. Compromise is a form of caring, yes, but in my books, it is not the kind of affection you need to show in order to express to someone that you love them. Otherwise it can quickly become a case of doing things just because your partner wants it, and while that works for some, it's a nightmare for others. Sex and love are not necessarily interchangeable terms. I understand that sexual partners might show love through sex. I show love through a passionate conversation, through a walk in the wilderness, by putting a bandaid on you if you hurt yourself. I don't show love by sacrificing my own happiness. And frankly, I don't think anyone else should either - I would not feel very loved if someone was unhappy on my account. Compromise, yes. By all means, compromise. But not so far as to figuratively lock each other away in rooms. Link to post Share on other sites
Ricecream-man Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I want to address two ideas that you've put forth and the way that they work (or don't work )together. First you state that sex in a relationship is more than just sex and is a type of intimacy and emotional bonding. I agree with that from what I've seen around me and the few gray moments I've had. The problem comes when you talk about compromise and the metaphorical prison. While I agree that scheduling sex just sounds painful and awkward, having more doesn't make it any better. If an asexual and sexual couple have more sex but the asexual doesn't enjoy it, then the emotional "love making" component is no longer there. Now you're just satisfying a physical need at your(the asexual's) expense. Link to post Share on other sites
Fire & Rain Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I want to address two ideas that you've put forth and the way that they work (or don't work )together. First you state that sex in a relationship is more than just sex and is a type of intimacy and emotional bonding. I agree with that from what I've seen around me and the few gray moments I've had. The problem comes when you talk about compromise and the metaphorical prison. While I agree that scheduling sex just sounds painful and awkward, having more doesn't make it any better. If an asexual and sexual couple have more sex but the asexual doesn't enjoy it, then the emotional "love making" component is no longer there. Now you're just satisfying a physical need at your(the asexual's) expense. This part really rings true. Don't want to sound a high moralist or whatever cuz I can't find a proper term for it. I don't see how anyone can enjoy it fully while the partner is not really into it. My partner also feels it's a turn off when I'm not in the mood and they would immediately back off. We don't do schedule cuz it won't work for both of us. Link to post Share on other sites
Bad_Mr_Tree Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So as for not feeling loved... I cannot, and will not, show that I love someone by having sex with them. I am likely to terminate a relationship if it turns out we cannot agree on something as simple as showing each other that we love each other. Showing affection should not be a compromise. Compromise is a form of caring, yes, but in my books, it is not the kind of affection you need to show in order to express to someone that you love them. Otherwise it can quickly become a case of doing things just because your partner wants it, and while that works for some, it's a nightmare for others. I absolutely agree with MoonWish on this. I was once an adherent to the view that compromise and communication make relationships work. I do believe that you need a lot of communication, but I don't believe compromise to be as constructive as I once did. The whole temple of "compromise makes a good relationship" seems to me built around the idea of "partner as a village": that individuals should seek and demand things primarily from a single individual, and that individual must deliver it even if they are not genuinely interested in it to make the other person happy. I tried that, and it turned into a hell. I've come to understand that life is so complex, so full of twists and turns that we do ourselves a huge disservice by attempting to get as much as we can from those who are closest to us. Maybe we can provide a lot of what our partner needs at a given time of our life in a genuine and caring way, but that isn't to say that should or always will remain so. Instead I'm trying to embrace a relationship paradigm of love as seeing and helping others to grow. This means that I understand my partner has needs that I can't meet, but I don't force myself to give it to them. I give as much as I can happily give from my initial position. If they need more, and many times they do, it is not my responsibility to be that person for them. They have the responsibility to understand their own needs and to find ways in which they can be met. I have the responsibility to understand my own needs, limitations and boundaries and to communicate that with them as much as I can. Of course I will want to help them in whatever way I can, but if they want to see a movie I have no interest in seeing, it seems silly to force myself to spend two hours imagining myself somewhere else. No one is locking anyone in any room as long as they are communicating their own boundaries and understandings honestly to their partner. The door is always open, whether or not people choose to go out and find a means to their desired ends is their own responsibility. And if they do feel themselves a prisoner, it is more often or not the expectations of the greater society that should be taken to task not that their partner hasn't given more than what they are comfortable giving. Link to post Share on other sites
*killer*queen* Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If one party is not into it, or just very indifferent, it kind of ceases to be anything intimate. For the one it's just a chore or something to try and bear through. Link to post Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If the objective is to be sincere with each other to the extent of total vulnerability, why do you need genital contact for it? I guess a similar level of intimacy can be achieved by cuddling, even with clothes on (naked bodies repulse me), if you stop to think about it and try not to do the default job of taking clothes off and penetration like the culture teaches us. Or at least you can first break the emotional barriers by letting the partner penetrate (if you feel that your genitals are such a 'forbidden fruit' that letting the partner in means a higher level of intimacy to you than just letting him stroke you intensely in other areas of the body or French-kiss you) but then try to achieve not orgasm but enlightenment (as in 'tantric' 'sex'). The touch or, more so, kiss (hypothetical) of a woman to whom I'm aesthetically attracted is significantly more meaningful to me than the touch of my friend or brother or even mother. And still, I don't look forward to penetrative sex. You may laugh at me again, but I'll repeat that I still see little difference between sex and mutual psychotherapy (apart from mutual stimulation and orgasm induction that you say isn't key). Regarding the frequency of sexual compromise: I'm sorry if you're too horny, but what I've heard is that most sexual people, especially older ones or workaholics, are OK with having sex two or three times a week. So if a mixed orientation couple sets the frequency of sex to once a week, the sexual still gets their needs satisfied by a third or half of what they'd get from a typical sexual partner. It of course depends on how often sex is craved. But the desire usually isn't omnipresent. While I adore cake and pizza and my mood is a bit elevated by depictions of them on AVEN, I don't crave them badly 24/7, not even every day. I think it's the same with sex - people have a lot of things to think about besides it. Link to post Share on other sites
Lydian Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I read this hoping for something insightful but expecting a whiney self-entitled bitchfest and you started as the first then trasitioned into the other. First of all how dare you imply that nothing separates lovers from friends or family because we don't have sex? Expressing your own feelings about sex is fine, but what's your problem that you feel the need to imply that because we're just not into sex we somehow don't love our partners as much or can't truly love them because we don't want sex. Maybe you should focus less on trying to make US understand YOU and take some time to understand people who are asexual. I realize that sometimes you might feel less desireable even though logically you know your partner is just asexual, sometimes you can't stop from feeling that way. You also need to realize as someone who's asexual, we CAN'T just start finding you sexually attractive and make you feel sexy because you asked. That wont work so well, believe me. Moving on from that, the part where you're saying that your partner's asexuality shouldn't trump your sexuality! TRUE! However why does YOUR sexuality trump your partner's discomfort with sex? Have you ever TALKED to an asexual who doesn't have sex before? Because they're probably repulsed by it and you're basically telling them to do something that leaves them feeling violated and uncomfortable just for their partner's sake. Sorry but no. That's not ok and as others have stated, you wont get the intimacy you want. Just because it's not a big deal for you doesn't mean people should just have sex for their partner's sake, if they're not having it it's probably because IT MAKES THEM VERY UNHAPPY TO FORCE THEMSELVES TO DO SO. So because you're unhappy, your partner should make THEMSELVES unhappy instead because they love you! :D News flash, if you need sex and your partner is sex-repulsed you either need to work around that or BREAK UP. They're not obligated to fuck you, I don't care what you think. You're not entitled to your partner's body ever. "This is what 'ALLOWING' your partner sex once a month feels like. I say the word compromise again. Is it really so much to ask for something we emotionally crave once a week. To show us the love we hear about but rarely truely intimately experience. That is 52 days a year where you share yourself with us in comparison to the 313 days we suffer emotionally. Even an unfair compromise like that would sit just fine with our hearts." Yeah. It IS that bad. You know what else sucks? I had to break up with my very loving boyfriend because the thought of having sex with him made me cry myself to sleep sometimes because I'm so repulsed by the idea. BUT YEAH. NO BIG DEAL! Get over yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Mietsiekat Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think what I will do is not edit my original post but add additional comments for everyone to understand better. The emphasis was never so much the metaphorical prison but an example to explain how I feel in my situation! I feel that I also have a right to express my feelings as I was never made aware of the fact that my husband was Gray-(more sexual than asexual) and neither was he. The 'prison' example is what bothers everyone in that context so I will add another. So please bear with me and I do ask read my original post as I add comments... I also never intended to imply that anyone should be forced into anything but compromise accordingly! Link to post Share on other sites
Phaetion Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I wanted to respond to this sooner but I found myself struggling to think of a response primarily because of the comments and thinking of my oath (getting to that in a moment). First of all, I do find it wrong that I held the assumption of sexuals being "sex machines." I confess I held this thought for some time. That was precisely why I made the oath to never date a sexual...plus not wanting kids. After reading through the comments, I do need to echo the sentiments shared here. Everyone, asexual or sexual, has needs and wants. Sexuals desire intimacy/sex but not all aces can give that (I might be sex-repulsed, so I myself am not sure if I can give a sexual such intimacy...though sensual stuff is good with me. Secondly, communication is key in all relationships but even more so in poly relationships and, relevantly, ace-sexual relationships. However, what everyone wants depends on the individual. Some sexuals, for example, are sex repulsed...or some are hypersexual. Similar deal with asexuals. Some do not like the thought of having sex but others do. At the end, it almost sounded like you came off as someone who was telling us asexuals to have sex with sexuals. Almost like a plea. The thing is, again, that it depends on the individual, as explained above. I think what I will do is not edit my original post but add additional comments for everyone to understand better. The emphasis was never so much the metaphorical prison but an example to explain how I feel in my situation! I feel that I also have a right to express my feelings as I was never made aware of the fact that my husband was Gray-(more sexual than asexual) and neither was he. The 'prison' example is what bothers everyone in that context so I will add another. So please bear with me and I do ask read my original post as I add comments... I also never intended to imply that anyone should be forced into anything but compromise accordingly! I saw where you're coming from originally. I won't mention it unless you want me too (I had it in my head but I'm not sure if I put it to words, correctly if anything. And I did put an effort to make my response as inoffensive as possible. Compromise is needed in such relationships, which is why I made that statement that communication is absolutely key in ace-sexual relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Mietsiekat, I'm sorry for editing my previous post for too long (half an hour); you might want to see what extra paragraphs I added there, especially the last one regarding frequency. I'd like to add a bit more here about the latter: "This is what 'ALLOWING' your partner sex once a month feels like. I say the word compromise again. Is it really so much to ask for something we emotionally crave once a week. To show us the love we hear about but rarely truely intimately experience. That is 52 days a year where you share yourself with us in comparison to the 313 days we suffer emotionally. Even an unfair compromise like that would sit just fine with our hearts." Yeah. It IS that bad. You know what else sucks? I had to break up with my very loving boyfriend because the thought of having sex with him made me cry myself to sleep sometimes because I'm so repulsed by the idea. BUT YEAH. NO BIG DEAL! Get over yourself. Mietsiekat, you need to consider that the desired frequency of sex lies on a continuous spectrum, from zero to many dozens of times a week (in some weeks of my youth I masturbated over 50 times, no joking). Imagine that you desire sex 7 times a week, while your partner - 28 times a week. Now imagine that your partner starts the blame game, chastising you for satisfying only 25% of their needs*. If you love them, will you still opt to stick with doing 'it' 7 times a week? I bet you won't; you'll increase the frequency to 14 times a week. * Edit: which is actually false because, the rarer you have sex, the more pleasure each act gives. With an adequate amount of foreplay and anticipation, you can get about as much total pleasure from rare sex as from indulging yourself all the time. Think about sailors' wives who don't see their husbands for months - do they complain as much as or more than you do? Generally, no, because they know how to extract maximum pleasure and enlightenment in the rare times when their husbands are on land. By agreeing to have sex (an activity that's sometimes totally alien to them) once a week, your asexuals partner already make a big (sometimes infinitely big!) step towards the compromise. Why don't you agree to reduce your frequency by a few times, find other things to think about instead of desiring sex, sublimate your energy into making more money for the family, after all? Link to post Share on other sites
Mietsiekat Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Edits are above everyone...Hope this helps a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Lydian Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Edits are above everyone...Hope this helps a bit. (Edit - Lets say ignore the above example and use the following as this is something we can relate to:You have always enjoyed eating steak with your partner,because its something that they proved to you could be enjoyable when they introduced you to it. After years of good steak memories your partner goes vegan an does not want you to cook steak anymore. They give you no reason and leave you wondering and yearning for steak. I am suddenly afraid to say this in fear of being attacked again. But maybe its a better example) It's not because you can just eat steak by yourself and leave your partner out of it. Steak is not a shared experience that requires two people and obviously your partner would have no place refusing to let you eat what you want. You can cook your own stupid steak. That is 52 days a year where you share yourself with us in comparison to the 313 days we suffer emotionally. If you're suffering and compromise isn't possible, leave. It's not your partner's job to suffer emotionally in your stead for those other days. Obviously you have no idea how much guilt a person feels when they can't offer their partner the thing they want without emotionally damaging themselves. The fact you feel "attacked" by people pointing out that sexual compromise isn't just a simple matter of 'just doing it' for so many people shows you obviously haven't learned anything from what people are telling you. I literally told you the idea of having sex made me cry myself to sleep. Any mention of something sexual made me feel sick to my stomach and I started hating myself for being asexual. You don't get it. Some people can compromise but others can't. If it's not fair to tell you to "just go celibate" then why is it fair for you to tell us to suck it up and do something equally emotionally damaging for us? Link to post Share on other sites
Mietsiekat Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Phaetion you are more then welcome to share your view.. I can see why people feel the way they do...also that it was a bit misinterpreted...and yes it is a plea to please understand our view. Never would I say do something you dont want to or just have sex to please your partner while you suffer, but instead that if you indeed enjoy sex when it comes to it, please be a bit more giving. A loving partner would never objectify you...please dont see sex as that. But also in my case dont introduce me to something wonderful and then later reject me until Im on my knees like a beggar. Grandmaster Bard... Clearly you are one very angry person. If what I said bothers you then stop returning to this thread...maybe reading my last edit at the bottom slipped by you completely... Any view other than yours does not matter to you. There is no need for name calling. I have my opinion on this subject and you have yours...My opinion I gained through experience and I wanted to share it, but according to you it is not allowed. I have never had a problem with peoples sexual orientation... As far as crying...I have also done that before...because of being sexually violated...That is the same emotional feeling. Link to post Share on other sites
Zapstileon Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 A loving partner would never objectify you...please dont see sex as that. But also in my case dont introduce me to something wonderful and then later reject me until Im on my knees like a beggar. Personally, I see sex as an act between consenting adults. If both parties agree, then whether or not one is asexual doesn't matter, since asexual people can, and often do, enjoy sex. Asexuality is about attraction. Objectification has nothing to do with it. As for your issues with your husband and how frequently you two have sex... well... I mean, if the frequency is the issue he has, then he's probably already doing his best to satisfy your need, which is no easy feat while avoiding your own discomfort in a case like this. I'd suggest finding a way to meet him halfway. I do understand that you want this wonderful thing. I also understand that he probably doesn't want to deny you this wonderful thing. Frankly, I think most asexuals understand that sex is a wonderful thing for sexual people that sexual people want. And if we don't understand it, then at the very least we accept that that's how things work. The problem is that if your husband has sex with you more often, there is a chance he will come to be uncomfortable in the process. It might be too much for him, just like too little sex is too much for you. As a side note: I don't think there was anything wrong with your original post, Mietsiekat. Your point was very clear, even if the example was a bit on the harsh side, since I doubt your husband is tying you to a bed and denying you any sexual release except once a month (though if that is the case, then leaving might be a good option). You have cried for being sexually violated. I have cried because of a compromise gone wrong with a partner who wanted sex far too often for me to deal with. Sex is emotional for me too, even if I don't have the attraction. It's emotional in - I suspect - a very different way, however. If I have sex too often, I cry because I am depressed. Because I feel like I am in a situation I cannot escape from. You can think of yourself and your husband as polar opposites. A fish and a bird. You need to meet half way, or one gets uncomfortable. Where you two are now - the compromise I have understood from your post - is making the fish breathe air. The other way around, you would make the bird breathe water. Also not good. Better is to station the bird at a cliff by the ocean, and let the fish leap out of the water or the bird dive in than to take the fish out or trap the bird beneath. If you go too far from one end of the pole to the other, one of you will suffocate. Because I understand that it is hard for a sexual person to be sexually abstinent. Like for us it would be hard to go fully sexual, it is hard for you to be celibate. Neither is impossible, but both are uncomfortable. And a compromise that makes one person uncomfortable is not a very good compromise. A compromise that makes a sexual person hurt is as bad a compromise as one that makes an asexual person hurt. I do hope you didn't consider my previous post an attack, but it seems to me that you are on the polar end of a very difficult situation, and I hoped then (and now) to help resolve that. Some people are very good at compromising. Some relationships work out amazingly because the people involved know how to meet halfway. Just on the comfort zone, not beyond it. Your plea for us to understand is entirely justified, and I do understand. I should hope most people do. But it can be very difficult (as you are experiencing with your sexual needs) to accommodate someone's needs when those needs are so very opposite of your own needs. This goes both ways. For the sexual and the asexual alike. Link to post Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Grandmaster Bard... Clearly you are one very angry person. If what I said bothers you then stop returning to this thread...maybe reading my last edit at the bottom slipped by you completely... Don't be too hard on Timbre (it's their display name by which they're addressed here; 'Grandmaster Bard' is their title; your own name is Mietsiekat and your title is Junior Member so far, and it will change automatically as your post count grows, until you make 100 posts outside of Arcade, when you'll be able to change your title in the settings panel or to keep the default titles, which are actually quite funny but perhaps not suited for sexual posters). Timbre is probably too angry with the lack of compromise (which, in their case, pretty much like in mine, would be total celibacy) from their partner; I usually discourage aces with negative attitudes to sex from entering a relationship with a sexual (unless carefully chosen), as it seems to cause frustration most of the time and the partner has to be very awesome and caring and willing to make concessions to compensate for that. You're quite lucky with that your husband turned out grey-sexual, in particular, sex-positive; some aces, however, are sex-repulsed, and to them, any amount of sex is already a big concession on their part. Link to post Share on other sites
dissolved Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If in a relationship or marriage someone demanded sex from me, I would be more than happy ending said relationship because: 1. it proves they know nothing about me, or were not listening during what was very likely one of the first conversations we had; 2. they probably do not understand that sex doesn't really add anything for me intimacy wise; 3. ultimately I will refuse to do anything I don't want to do, and would never force them to do anything they didn't want to do so equality counts for nothing. Or so I personally believe. Link to post Share on other sites
Bad_Mr_Tree Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Never would I say do something you dont want to or just have sex to please your partner while you suffer, but instead that if you indeed enjoy sex when it comes to it, please be a bit more giving. In addition to that, it is helpful if people and sexual partners understand that the ability for someone to give depends on where they are in their own life. What stresses they are dealing with, what issues they have, these things change and what is comfortable in year number one of a relationship might very well not be a comfortable place for them in year number eight. Communication means communicating your understandings as they change, and being able to listen attentively and compassionately. Communication doesn't mean trying to guilt trip or beg someone to violate their own boundaries and limits. When I was young I could have pizza four nights a week without any issues, now if I have it more than once a month I'll vomit. This means don't go shoving pizza in my face and then accuse me that I'm with holding anything because I used to eat it more often before. Life is filled with joy, and many difficulties, and as the purpose of my life isn't to craft myself into some sort of sexual pleasing automaton I might need to redirect some of those energies spent pleasing my partner into taking actions that make me happy. I don't expect my partner to be all that I need, I expect them to be honest, compassionate and passionate; in regards to their own goals, self and me. Link to post Share on other sites
Phaetion Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Phaetion you are more then welcome to share your view.. I can see why people feel the way they do...also that it was a bit misinterpreted...and yes it is a plea to please understand our view. Never would I say do something you dont want to or just have sex to please your partner while you suffer, but instead that if you indeed enjoy sex when it comes to it, please be a bit more giving. A loving partner would never objectify you...please dont see sex as that. But also in my case dont introduce me to something wonderful and then later reject me until Im on my knees like a beggar. And I'd be willing to give it if I truly loved the person and they wanted it. Just not often please. I'll be willing to negotiate on it, however. I'm just nervous overall about dating sexuals because my mind is set in stone about them wanting sex and children. The former I can provide. The latter? Not in a million years. I would need to date a sexual again to make my verdict. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon...unless I get a surprise. Link to post Share on other sites
Purnkin Spurce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Although I can see your point in this, one thing I do disagree with is how you said asexuals who prefer showing love and connection through cuddling and hand holding isn't physically different from how they show affection to their family or friends. It IS different. It's different in that we don't see our family and friends romantically. It's a deeper level of trust and love. IT's a whole different kind. Sure, it's JUST as strong and important, but completely different. And it feels diffeerent for any individual who experiences it. We don't need sex to feel loved because we get that from other things. But when we do show we love someone I truly believe it's still just as important as say two sexual people having a deeply romantic sexual experience. Both bring strong emotions into the mix. I don't mean to offend, but I think snuggling hugging and holding hands romantically with your said partner is the purest form of love you can share with that person. I'm sure I won't understand what it feels like to share a spiritual sexual experience with someone. I'm sure it's also a very vulnerable place. It takes time and effort to get to know someone, especially when it comes to knowing them in their truly naked form, sharing bodies with each other. I can see how that is such a deep experience. But I don't think it's the only one two people can share. When somone decides to let you into their world, their life and their hearts, is that not breaking a wall? Is not sharing everyday with that person, getting to know them better and understanding them on deeper levels not also baring all of their emotions? Does deep passionate love always have to be about sex between two people? Sex can be very personal but it's not the only personal form of sharing love. Again, not saying one is more important than the other. But when you're with an asexual, their way of showing love is much different than a sexual would. Sharing secrets, being there for you, holding hands and kissing you is the deepest they can go sometimes. I can definitely understand where you're coming from. I am sex repulsed but I do get how it is emotionally important for sexual people to get that stuff. It's just very sad there is this one significant thing that drives such a wedge between two people. If you're in fact dating someone who's asexual, remember that. THey can only do so much that's out of their comfort zone, EVEN for their partners. Sex is personal and important for you, sex for some asexuals is an unnecessary chore when there are other ways we show love much better. But some of us do it to make you happy. That can be difficult for them I can imagine (depending on the situation and their level of comfortableness with sex) Ever considered what it's like for an asexual to give sex to their partners? The vulnerability they must feel, the walls they put down for you in order to make you happy. I wonder that myself because I've never done that for anyone but I imagine it's quite the experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.