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Autochorissexual/Aegosexual? Heard of it?


Flemming

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Sleepy Skeleton

I appreciate this discussion and I don't know why people rush to dismiss it. Personally, I'm always looking for new vocabulary - the more words I can find to help me describe something as weird and squiggly as feelings, the better - even if it's only in my own head. I don't think anyone's expecting a bunch of new terms to be adopted by the Public At Large. At least not any time soon. So, there's no such thing as having too many words, in my opinion - but then, I'm a huge word nerd. Come to think of it, is there a word for being sexually aroused by extremely precise vocabulary? Because I think I might have that kink. ;)

I completely agree with you. I don't get why a lot of people both here and in real life have such an aversion to new words. I mean, in English we have like 10+ different words for pants/trousers. Yet new words to describe something that is actually complex (sexuality) are suddenly too much to handle?! With all words, you can choose which ones you are comfortable with using. No one says you have to use these new identities that are created in this community. But understanding what they mean and why there seems to be a need for them to exist is not exactly a bad thing.

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I'm not the kind of person who will say stuff like "ZOMG I'm aegosexual, not asexual! Stop erasing my identitiy!!!1" I honestly don't expect people outside of Tumblr, Twitter, or AVEN to understand what every little word means, nor am I going to wear my obscure identities like badges and show off to everyone. If I see a term I like, I'm going to add it to my own personal collection. That's it.

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  • 4 weeks later...
WoodwindWhistler

But seriously, folks... I'm beginning to realize something about myself, and I'm finding it hard to explain. Basically, what it boils down to is, I love to fantasize, I spend a substantial part of my free time doing so, but in order to enjoy it at all, I have to remove myself, 100%, from the fantasy. I'm not a participant, I'm not even a voyeur/witness/whatever in the scenario, I am just not there. I never have been.

I totally get this, because I have this too. I pass a lot of time fantasizing, but can never imagine myself into a scenario in any form.

Dissociative experiences even happen in real life. When I bring up a memory of a cuddly moment (that I was enjoying!) I somehow get a picture of seeing us as if I was a third person observer, as if I were an artist drawing us. It is very strange!

Fantasizing, I have to think of my body as one of the characters. Sometimes, even male ones. As "me," I cannot even get excited much about it. I also feel reeeeally awkward every time I've even considered the idea of fantasizing about real life people. I've only done that a couple of times, for someone I was already pretty involved with.

I appreciate this discussion and I don't know why people rush to dismiss it. Personally, I'm always looking for new vocabulary - the more words I can find to help me describe something as weird and squiggly as feelings, the better - even if it's only in my own head. I don't think anyone's expecting a bunch of new terms to be adopted by the Public At Large. At least not any time soon. So, there's no such thing as having too many words, in my opinion - but then, I'm a huge word nerd. Come to think of it, is there a word for being sexually aroused by extremely precise vocabulary? Because I think I might have that kink. ;)

I completely agree with you. I don't get why a lot of people both here and in real life have such an aversion to new words. I mean, in English we have like 10+ different words for pants/trousers. Yet new words to describe something that is actually complex (sexuality) are suddenly too much to handle?! With all words, you can choose which ones you are comfortable with using. No one says you have to use these new identities that are created in this community. But understanding what they mean and why there seems to be a need for them to exist is not exactly a bad thing.

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I'm not the kind of person who will say stuff like "ZOMG I'm aegosexual, not asexual! Stop erasing my identitiy!!!1" I honestly don't expect people outside of Tumblr, Twitter, or AVEN to understand what every little word means, nor am I going to wear my obscure identities like badges and show off to everyone. If I see a term I like, I'm going to add it to my own personal collection. That's it.

THIS. Inuits have tons of words to describe different snow. Yet when we come to something that is very, very worthy of elaboration- a deeply human and individualized experience- we balk at creating a focal vocabulary??? Nope, nope, and nope. Take your logophobia elsewhere, please. I don't expect the general public to learn these words (I'd be happy with them just accepting asexuality) but I do expect there not to be pushback from the specialized community itself!!

Heard about it, all over the damn place

Still don't get what makes it different from just saying "I'm a libidoist asexual that just doesn't want to have sex"

Um, how about libido is what happens when you're walking around in your daily life doing nothing particularly sexy, and this happens when you're viewing something intentionally sexy??? There are worlds of difference, here.

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  • 3 weeks later...
awkwardfeminist

I think it's a great term - I just refer to myself as ace, but I probably wouldn't have come to that conclusion or embraced that term without seeing the definition of autochorissexual first. It might not be a widely used term, but if it helps people understand themselves it's not "un-necessary".

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Um, how about libido is what happens when you're walking around in your daily life doing nothing particularly sexy, and this happens when you're viewing something intentionally sexy??? There are worlds of difference, here.

Hmm, being that I don't tend to experience anything in either department, it's harder for me to understand the difference. To me, I would have seen "viewing something intentionally sexy" as being a result of libido, otherwise why would you be looking for it?

Based on how you describe it though, I wonder if this is something my partner would understand better.

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Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all autochorissexualism ace's have a libido but not all asexuals who have a libido are also autochorissexuals (for them, I guess, it's just a bodily function - like going to the toilet - without any sexual thoughts at all).

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MinorThreatGirl

I can absolutely relate to this, as I am predominantly interested in sex as an idea, not an action. I get turned on easily, but it always comes with some degree of detachment from myself. I don't know how to explain it, but it's like I imagine that I am someone else or become vicariously entwined with someone else. I can look at strangers and imagine, "I bet they have a great sex life!" or watch a movie and think, "Good for that couple!" or even play a Sims game and get excited by the interactions that my characters are having. It's very strange.

But I also simply suffer from a detachment from reality in general, i.e. I often don't feel like a real person. I occasionally feel shocked upon looking into a mirror and seeing myself as though I occupy some out of body energy most of the time. I'm not on drugs, not schizophrenic, etc. I just feel that way a lot.

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Hooded_Crow

Um, how about libido is what happens when you're walking around in your daily life doing nothing particularly sexy, and this happens when you're viewing something intentionally sexy??? There are worlds of difference, here.

Hmm, being that I don't tend to experience anything in either department, it's harder for me to understand the difference. To me, I would have seen "viewing something intentionally sexy" as being a result of libido, otherwise why would you be looking for it?

Based on how you describe it though, I wonder if this is something my partner would understand better.

Actually I'd say libido is a tendency to get aroused. When I say my libido is working up, I mean to say I tend to get aroused easily and to want to get aroused and to relieve that arousal.

I may then as a result be more inclined to seek out stuff that will arouse me. But yeah... I don't call myself autochorissexual because it's the same for me as being a libidoiat ace. I can see that some people get aroused randomly but that sexual content such a erotic scenes turn them off. And that autochorissexual means more "enjoys sexual content but no attraction to other people" but that seems too nuanced a distinction to justify a different word.

How about "I have a libido but erotic stuff turns me off" or "I have a libido and erotic stuff turns me on but not other people"?

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Actually I'd say libido is a tendency to get aroused. When I say my libido is working up, I mean to say I tend to get aroused easily and to want to get aroused and to relieve that arousal.

I may then as a result be more inclined to seek out stuff that will arouse me.

Hm. The point where that differs from my experience is that I don't want to get aroused. If arousal simply became organically impossible (like, severe and chronic ED) I'd feel relieved of a chore and burden. I sure wouldn't feel like anything worthwhile had gone missing.

I still consider myself definitely libidoist simply because I can get aroused, and because that arousal is often at the "this won't go away by itself, it needs to get dealt with (i.e., I need to masturbate)" level... not because there'd be any want or enjoyment involved with it.

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I've heard several nonlibidoists here claim that pretty much anyone that doesn't experience some sort of sexual dysfunction (themselves included) can potentially experience arousal with the proper stimulation. It seemed to me that the libido relates more to one's desire to seek out such stimulation (in other words, sex drive) rather than one's capability of experiencing said stimulation.

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I've heard of it and I thought it related to me.

Then I realized that smut fanfics weren't something I ever looked for and what I considered sexual was actually sensual. ^^;

Also, the current definitions for asexual as an orientation are:

A person who does not experience sexual attraction or to refer to individuals with low or absent sexual desire or attractions, low or absent sexual behaviors, exclusively romantic non-sexual partnerships, or a combination of both absent sexual desires and behaviors.

And for gray-ace:
A person who experiences sexual attraction rarely, only under specific circumstances or a person who experiences sexual attraction but not strong enough to act on or simply has no interest in sex.

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Purnkin Spurce

I think it fits me, whether it's an orientation or a kink, it fits me. I relate and glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've always been interested in reading erotica, or love stories. But I don't necessarily put myself in those fantasies. If I actually try to picture myself in these scenarios I am pretty repulsed and turned off.

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I use the label quoiromantic autochorissexual to describe myself, and I wouldn't say these labels are unnecessary at all. I find it tough to dismiss the use of a particular label when it fits me. Not only that, but a simple Google search can give you all the information you'll need about a particular label.

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I've heard several nonlibidoists here claim that pretty much anyone that doesn't experience some sort of sexual dysfunction (themselves included) can potentially experience arousal with the proper stimulation. It seemed to me that the libido relates more to one's desire to seek out such stimulation (in other words, sex drive) rather than one's capability of experiencing said stimulation.

Note that I included the "it needs to get dealt with" in my description. While you are correct in saying that even nonlibs can (usually) get aroused as a strict organic/biomechanical function, I really don't think you can call someone nonlib if they feel a need/strong urge to masturbate if and when said arousal happens. It makes no sense to me.

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Does it matter?

Does it matter that there's another word to describe the ever-growing spectrum of sexuality? Does it really?

Does it matter if of autochorissexual people want to be categorized as asexual or bi/hetero/homosexual?

People use this word because they feel it describes them best. If you think the word is pointless, then don't use it.

If you think that autochorissexuals should be in one category or another, just let the autochorissexual decide which category to fall under.

The new word sounds interesting, does anyone happen to know what the latin roots for it are?

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The new word sounds interesting, does anyone happen to know what the latin roots for it are?

Autochoris- is Greek:

Auto = self; choris = apart, separate from

Anego- is Latin:

A- (an- if the second morpheme starts with a vowel, so the word must correctly be anego-, not "*aego-") = not, without; ego = I (i.e., first person singular)

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Oh God, what a wonderful word! I love it. I think being able to sum up something that's actually quite complex in a single word is just fabulous (the Germans are very good at it, I believe).

I don't know if I'd use outside of AVEN as some users have said (not that I really have conversations where I would need to?!) but I like that it exists. I would definitely use it to describe myself.

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I'm just glad that there is a word that I can identify with - a word that I can say describes me really well.

Because I get super aroused by erotica/erotic fanfics (though for erotica it is really only if I can believe that the characters would have a good romantic connection as well, so I guess that means that I see romantic-ness as necessary for sex? even though that is probably not the case for most allosexual ppl?). And also I have several detailed fantasies that I've been constructing for years, but if I try to think about myself in them I am instantly turned off. And also when I try to imagine having sex I can't imagine anything more than the other lightly running their hands along my arms/legs/sides. Like I get SO turned off if I try to imagine anything further than that (and I have tried).

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WoodwindWhistler

I can absolutely relate to this, as I am predominantly interested in sex as an idea, not an action. I get turned on easily, but it always comes with some degree of detachment from myself. I don't know how to explain it, but it's like I imagine that I am someone else or become vicariously entwined with someone else. I can look at strangers and imagine, "I bet they have a great sex life!" or watch a movie and think, "Good for that couple!" or even play a Sims game and get excited by the interactions that my characters are having. It's very strange.

But I also simply suffer from a detachment from reality in general, i.e. I often don't feel like a real person. I occasionally feel shocked upon looking into a mirror and seeing myself as though I occupy some out of body energy most of the time. I'm not on drugs, not schizophrenic, etc. I just feel that way a lot.

That "Good for that couple" thought usually pertains to romance for me (as in, sometimes I think romance is cute when it's not visibly dysfunctional and I'm happy to see people happy. Other times it induces gagging.)

Oh my gosh, I have that mirror thing, too! Sometimes I look at my face and think, oh yeah, that's what other people see when they meet me. Weird! Even though I can recognize people on sight, I also can't reliably reconstruct their faces in my memory some of the time. (then again, I have poor visualization skills in the first place) I think about their personality and their words more . . .

I guess perhaps you and I are just more aware that we are a soul inhabiting a body, not just a body. Honestly, I felt more "real" after I connected to people I clicked with. Though, not "real" in a physical sense so much as real . . . I don't know how to describe it.

Um, how about libido is what happens when you're walking around in your daily life doing nothing particularly sexy, and this happens when you're viewing something intentionally sexy??? There are worlds of difference, here.

Hmm, being that I don't tend to experience anything in either department, it's harder for me to understand the difference. To me, I would have seen "viewing something intentionally sexy" as being a result of libido, otherwise why would you be looking for it?

Based on how you describe it though, I wonder if this is something my partner would understand better.

Same reason a true blue asexual might be looking for more sex after experimenting, experiencing it once and liking it. There's no inherent attraction/drive/horniness, but they remember that it was pleasant, so they want to do it again.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all autochorissexualism ace's have a libido but not all asexuals who have a libido are also autochorissexuals (for them, I guess, it's just a bodily function - like going to the toilet - without any sexual thoughts at all).

No. As I just explained, auto- and libido are separate concepts. And remember, complete null of sexual thoughts (like purely a bodily function) is not what autochorissexual means. It means engagement with sexual material and thoughts (and even potentially emotionally invested in characters), but not having you, yourself directly involved in the fantasy.

I've heard several nonlibidoists here claim that pretty much anyone that doesn't experience some sort of sexual dysfunction (themselves included) can potentially experience arousal with the proper stimulation. It seemed to me that the libido relates more to one's desire to seek out such stimulation (in other words, sex drive) rather than one's capability of experiencing said stimulation.

Note that I included the "it needs to get dealt with" in my description. While you are correct in saying that even nonlibs can (usually) get aroused as a strict organic/biomechanical function, I really don't think you can call someone nonlib if they feel a need/strong urge to masturbate if and when said arousal happens. It makes no sense to me.

I think what Mysticus is saying that *if* you stimulate, (i.e., masturbate) you will get aroused, if you don't have sexual dysfunction. (it might be an issue of finding what you like, or course) Which, I guess I could go along with. A nonlib of course, *can* masturbate if they decide to. (Exhibit A: Me.)

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@ WoodwindWoman: that is what I'm trying to say.. The difference between * just * having a libido (bodily function) and being autochorissexual (sexual thought / content).

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I might get hate for this but I don't think autochoris.. etc belongs with asexuality. It's a sexual who just doesn't want to have sex, for various reasons. It's used to describe people who get attracted to fictional characters/cartoons etc, right? That's still sexual attraction. So, in my opinion, if you're autochoris you are not ace. (Shrug)

The issue is though I identify as this but I'm not sexual? Imagining myself having sex with a person is very forced and very uninteresting. Now imagining that person having sex with someone else is an entirely different story. It doesn't even necessarily have to be them, but they're like models for me. I'm not really sexually attracted to them. I feel like it could definitely fall under gray-a, but it's not really a sexual person who doesn't want to have sex sort of deal.

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Betty Badinbed

Like a few of you here, I really like that this term exists. I have seen, often bandied about, the question "do we really need another term?" Well Yes. I Do. And maybe other people who experience autochorrisexual behaviour do too. As someone said here earlier on (I am too lazy to go back and grab a quote!), it's so good to be able to name the squiggly feels. And I like that something I've experienced since I was a teen (and I'm now 48) is also experienced by others,which has come up because of discussions like this. It helps me feel less alone.

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It's worth noting that Anthony Bogaert coined the word after seeing an AVEN thread where people were discussing the phenomenon it describes. So people have been talking about it for a long time, even though there wasn't a word for it.

One time someone contacted me looking for words that might fit them. I pointed them to writing on kinky asexuals, as well as writing on autochorissexualism, and they found something to identify with in the latter. Well, if it helps someone, I support it.

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I'm still not getting the difference, to be honest.

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I'm still not getting the difference, to be honest.

Lemme put this way...

A libidoist asexual doesn't need to fap to a target, but an aegosexual on the other hand have the need to fap to a target. Therefore, a libidoist asexual is not neccessarily an aegosexual, but an aegosexual is a libidoist asexual

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but an aegosexual is a libidoist asexual

Thanks, that's all I really needed to know.

Everyone has their own different "methods" of doing things; I don't feel like it means they all need their own individual names

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Since I'm new to the concept of choosing what sexuality I relate most to, both terms just add to the confusion of finding my identity and I feel like I don't want to use either although it's totally what I feel like.

I'm also fantasize a lot, but never include myself to these fantasies. I can watch porn and find the act arousing but never the people so I want to be a part of it. I'm glad I'm not alone with this feeling. So far nobody got what's going on in my head...

But still, I'm fine with choosing none of these terms to describe what I am and feel like. The terms I have already are enough. :)

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Kiara_Pyrenei

I'm still not getting the difference, to be honest.

I think one of the defining factors that makes saying autochorissexual different from just saying libidoist asexual is that being autochorissexual is characterized by a dissociation from your own fantasies, not just your actions. For example, an asexual with a libido might have no fantasy at all to accompany masturbation, or maybe have a fantasy about themselves having sex with someone, and then have no desire at all to act on it. However, someone who is autochorissexual would have a fantasy but not that kind of fantasy, because their fantasies don't include themselves at all. People who are autocchorissexual almost eclusively fantasize in the third person, about situations that dont involve them participating personally, usually about sexual acts between other two people. This isn't out of a fetish for voyeurism, but rather a fundemental dissociation from their fantasies. In other words, the fantasy isn't about watching two other people have sex, the fantasy simply IS the two other people having sex. These people are almost always someone the person doesn't know in real life, not any sort of real life romantic interest (this is where the fictional characters come in as a common topic of fantasy for autochorissexuals). In fact, their fantasies have basically nothing to do with themselves or their lives at all, which is why autochorissexualism is also called "Identity-less sexuality". It's generally correlated with being on the asexual spectrum, probably because that feeling of not being a participant in your own sexual fantasies often goes hand in hand with not feeling a need to be a participant in real life sexual acitvities. However, it also implies having and enjoying sexual fantasies.

So yes, people who are autochoris are basically a subset of libidoist asexuals, however, not all libidoist asexuals think about sex the way someone who is autochoris would. (And I highly disagree that the difference is in having a target to masturbate to, autochorrisexualism has nothing specifically to do with thinking about someone while you get off, it's about NOT thinking of yourself as a part of your own sexuality.)

It's not a sexuality on its own, but rather is considered a paraphelia, an atypical way of experiencing arousal that is common specifically in asexuals. Either way, it's something that is a unique way of experiencing sexual attraction, and I think its amazing there's a term for it!

I certainly think finding that term was hugely important to me personally, because I am highly autochorissexual; while I have a very high libido and fantasize very often, I have literally NEVER had a fantasy about a real person that I knew, or any fantasy that included me as a person. Which was very confusing for a long time, especially as I talked to more and more people and discovered that I was unusual, that most people fantasized often about themselves with their significant other, or a crush, or any other person they found hot. It made me feel wierd and awkward, and I thought maybe there was something wrong with the way I thought, especially as I struggled with being interested in sex in real life. At the time, I thought I was sexual, but that the way I fantasized was the thing that was keeping me from having realistic sexual desire. Hearing the term autochorrisexual was the first time I had seen evidence that this was something that happened to more than just me, and learning that it was most commonly associated with asexuality was what made me first start actually exploring that I could be asexual. So its definitely a very important term to me! I consider it a huge and fundemental aspect of my orientation.

Of course, this is all based on what I know mixed in with my personal experience with autochorissexualism, so some people might be slightly different! :D

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