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nerdperson777

Trans Moments?

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nerdperson777

Hadley, can it possibly be a shoulder bag? If it's a purse, maybe it's just a purse. Idk, I'm a dude, I don't know anything about women's fashion. :P

Hehe, I'm not sure! The style is definitely called "cross-body" bag. I just don't know how to refer to it when talking to people. Bag is probably good enough. I hesitate because when I first mentioned that I wanted to get one to a friend, she was like, "oh, like a man-purse?" and I really hate that term. What's a "man-purse"? A regular purse but with missiles, footballs, motorcycles and muscle cars embroidered on it? Why can't it just be a purse? No, it's just a woman's-style whatever, and I like it, because it makes me feel more feminine and looks great. Even if they made a purse with missiles, footballs, motorcycles and muscle cars on it, I wouldn't want it.

I think I've also heard of a manbag. I usually just think these things are just non-flashy versions that are possibly made of more durable material. That would be fine with me if I had a bag. Normally I just carry around my chunky backpack. Right before my first year of college, my mom made me get a purse during a Coach sale. A lot of things were at least half off. I didn't want a bag but she begged me to get one for social events. I still haven't used it. I just stuff it under my bed and let it collect dust. :P I myself don't see the point of carrying a super tiny bag. I'd think there would be a wallet, phone, whole lot of makeup, and some other stuff that's needed in the bag which not everything would fit in. But I know you're on the opposite side of what I am so we all have our own thoughts. ;)

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butterflydreams

Hadley, can it possibly be a shoulder bag? If it's a purse, maybe it's just a purse. Idk, I'm a dude, I don't know anything about women's fashion. :P

Hehe, I'm not sure! The style is definitely called "cross-body" bag. I just don't know how to refer to it when talking to people. Bag is probably good enough. I hesitate because when I first mentioned that I wanted to get one to a friend, she was like, "oh, like a man-purse?" and I really hate that term. What's a "man-purse"? A regular purse but with missiles, footballs, motorcycles and muscle cars embroidered on it? Why can't it just be a purse? No, it's just a woman's-style whatever, and I like it, because it makes me feel more feminine and looks great. Even if they made a purse with missiles, footballs, motorcycles and muscle cars on it, I wouldn't want it.

I think I've also heard of a manbag. I usually just think these things are just non-flashy versions that are possibly made of more durable material. That would be fine with me if I had a bag. Normally I just carry around my chunky backpack. Right before my first year of college, my mom made me get a purse during a Coach sale. A lot of things were at least half off. I didn't want a bag but she begged me to get one for social events. I still haven't used it. I just stuff it under my bed and let it collect dust. :P I myself don't see the point of carrying a super tiny bag. I'd think there would be a wallet, phone, whole lot of makeup, and some other stuff that's needed in the bag which not everything would fit in. But I know you're on the opposite side of what I am so we all have our own thoughts. ;)

Hahaha, yup! I actually really wanted to get one with a fun color, or interesting pattern. I really liked the Vera Bradley ones (they have lots with floral patterns, some of which are really fun!) but they weren't the right size I was looking for. I needed it to hold my tablet, so I guess mine is kind of big, but it's very thin, which makes up for it.

Don't tell anyone, but sometimes when hanging out with my friend from college (and some other female friends over the years), she'd ask or I'd offer to hold her purse for her. She would laugh and say, "hahaha, look at you with your man purse" or "people are going to think I've got you completely whipped" but I actually really liked it and wanted to hold it. I'd respond with things like, "you're just jealous because it doesn't look this good when you're holding it" :P

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pitchblackonyx

recent trans moment when disiussing my clothing ith my partner. i can't win lol, if i'm wearing a binder he moans that I don't have boobs, but if i#'m wearing a bra, he moans because I'm not being my true self lol.

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nerdperson777

Haha, yeah. Last year, my parents and I went to a clothing store in Las Vegas and I ended up holding my chunky backpack, my dad's backpack, and mom's handbag. I refuse to say that was killing me.

And just an hour ago, I had a practice for a martial arts demo with my group. We were going with a Mulan theme so we had a costuming discussion. Tacky Asian hats were mentioned, like the straw hats. The guys should have those hats with the ponytails on them or put them in the dresses that they used to beat up the enemies. One girl said we should even have mustaches. And I said, yeah, we're supposed to be guys in the army! No one knows that I would really have wanted that. :D My friend is the only one that knows I'm queer and she wasn't here today so a little joke for myself!

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littlepersonparadox

A few trans moments personally.

1) I got a new laptop bag for myself a little whiles back. I'm DFAB so I get called mam a lot sometimes when i'm buying stuff. So I am at my school walking down the hall when a guy came up to me and asked me where i got the bag and that he wanted one himself. :) You know you got a good neutral item when both genders are asking for it (some girls did the same thing)

2) Waiting in line at timmies in the middle of the line and everyone in front of me is female and I turn around and everyone behind me is male and im this androgynous neutral person literally between the two sides.

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dash

Family wedding photos when the photographer says "men on the left and women on the right" (or whatever) and I'm just going UH WHAT DO I DO and panicking because I'm not out to most of these people and so I try to get myself in the middle somehow but that's reserved for the bride and groom and their parents and so I end up shoved to the side with the women anyway hugely against my will and then having to force smiles for the photos. (I was wearing a men's suit, too.) Also the family members I am out to saying NOTHING because they didn't want to cause a scene at the other folks' wedding and also don't want to come out about me, either -- this is a side of the family that would NOT understand.

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Kappamaki

So I was talking with another student after class today, whom I'm not out to, and she asked me which name she should use for me - my legal name or my preferred name (I'd awkwardly stopped the teacher and switched him to using my preferred name after the first class, so everyone in that class heard it). After telling her to go with the latter, I wound up inventing on the fly a whole made-up origin story for my preferred name while presenting it as a ubiquitously used nickname, along with justifications for why my legal name sounds weirdly uncomfortable, all without coming out because there were like twenty people in that room.

+50 EXP to the Speech skill.

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littlepersonparadox

I remember my ex-boyfriend was FTM and I wanted to try his binder and this was BEFORE i knew i was genderqueer. Also Realising your not entirely cis when your boyfriend ask if he can call you his boyfriend as a joke when your in ties and then start daydreaming about it not being a just a joke thing.

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dash

lolwut

Me, overhearing my mom in the other room, "I swear on my daughter's life, I swear on my daughter's life...!"

Thinking, "yeah, there's a meaningless oath..."

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nerdperson777

Well, sometimes I'm wondering why my underwear keeps riding up. Then I realize that I have a butt.. Curse this body. Must also be the reason why my zipped jacket always slides up after a while.

One time I almost misread something in my email. So for a class, we got separated into 6 groups. I almost thought I was in Group 5 because I saw my chosen name there and then I remembered that my given name was under Group 4.

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butterflydreams

Realized last night that I tend to up the pitch of my voice inadvertently when talking to people on the phone or ordering something at a restaurant. I wonder how long this has been going on.

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nerdperson777

Someone I met at a trans* trip came out as genderfluid on Facebook. Then I remembered on that trip, our bus got lost getting to the site, which was in the middle of nowhere. So our choice was to wait for a ride there or hike up a hill/mountain thing. When I got there, I heard people talking about sweaty binders. Then the next day someone said they saw someone take their shots. Only here can all that happen.

I guess I have another one but sometimes I wonder if I'm posting private conversations and I shouldn't be doing this. My MtF's FtM friend offered to give me some guy clothes if he ever comes to visit my school. He asked what my waist measurement was. "Okay, I have a bigger waist than you and you wear looser clothes than me." I like my clothes really loose! I can fit a size S but I normally go for size M.

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iff

Realized last night that I tend to up the pitch of my voice inadvertently when talking to people on the phone or ordering something at a restaurant. I wonder how long this has been going on.

i've posted before elsewhere about my anxiety on the phone various time

before i had came to better terms in this regard, i had to phone the doctor on call for a brother of mine (nothing serious, he hurt himself with a car door and his hand), but when explaining it to the hurse on the phone, the nurse says "and you're his sister" which had upset me at the time, which i corrected her on the phone, probably as i didn't want to look at the inside of myself in depth, it upset me, it really shouldn't have and now if it happened, i wouldn't have corrected her in saying it, it is just not something i wanted to think of.

reflecting has brought a tear or two to my eye :(

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butterflydreams

Realized last night that I tend to up the pitch of my voice inadvertently when talking to people on the phone or ordering something at a restaurant. I wonder how long this has been going on.

i've posted before elsewhere about my anxiety on the phone various time

before i had came to better terms in this regard, i had to phone the doctor on call for a brother of mine (nothing serious, he hurt himself with a car door and his hand), but when explaining it to the hurse on the phone, the nurse says "and you're his sister" which had upset me at the time, which i corrected her on the phone, probably as i didn't want to look at the inside of myself in depth, it upset me, it really shouldn't have and now if it happened, i wouldn't have corrected her in saying it, it is just not something i wanted to think of.

reflecting has brought a tear or two to my eye :(

I'm sorry to hear that, iff. Please don't cry. It's ok. *hugs* And you're definitely not the only one with phone anxiety. I've had it horribly in the past, and I frequently still do. It's made worse by the fact that my friend told me I sound like I'm unhappy on the phone, and like I didn't want to talk to her. Neither of which were true. It just made me more self-conscious about using the phone.

Hopefully things have improved for you since then :)

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iff

thanls hadley. It wasn't a proper cry, it was just a tear or two, i hadn't expected the memory to have an emotional affect at all, so it took me by surprise. I think most part for phone is that i have a little speech problem so this leads to anxiety.

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dash

Dealing with customer service people over the phone.

There was one who called me ma'am, even when I repeatedly asked them to not call me that. They did it like twenty, maybe more times, over and over, like after every single sentence. It went like this, practically a dark comedy routine.

"Don't call me ma'am."

"As you wish ma'am."

And then there was the whole "but we're trained to do so!" excuse which is such bs because when a customer repeatedly asks you to stop calling them something, you stop calling them that. This wasn't me getting mad on the first time, or the second.

I filed a complaint (there were several other issues as well, which is why I was calling customer service in the first place), and ended up getting directed to the Best Customer Service Agent In The World who solved all the problems and talked me back from "I am leaving this company for good, that is the purpose of this call" into staying as a customer. (I wrote her boss a letter about how good she was.) So it's not all bad. But that one person... egads. I ended up talking to his boss and they said they would review the tape of the call (it's all recorded) for better training purposes. When someone says "please stop calling me that," you stop!

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littlepersonparadox

Right before my first year of college, my mom made me get a purse during a Coach sale. A lot of things were at least half off. I didn't want a bag but she begged me to get one for social events. I still haven't used it. I just stuff it under my bed and let it collect dust. :P I myself don't see the point of carrying a super tiny bag. I'd think there would be a wallet, phone, whole lot of makeup, and some other stuff that's needed in the bag which not everything would fit in. But I know you're on the opposite side of what I am so we all have our own thoughts. ;)

I remember my mom got me a coach purse for Christmas as a congrats for getting a 3.59 GPA in my first semester. I convinced her to get me all 4 volumes of batman no mans land in exchange for it. She agreed and got her to pay all $120. (The store really doesn't understand the value of its products Spider-Man volume 1 only cost me $80.) To this day when we talk about it we both think we got the better deal. She's happy because she gets to use it all the time and I'm happy because I got a set of amazing comics I'll cherresh and re-read forever.

Just thought of another one just this evening. I was packing up to go back to my dorm when I noticed my boxers (that mom thinks I use for sleeping purposes only and not actual undies) was in the to stay pile. I moved them into the to go bag hidden under some hoodies.

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dash

I can only imagine what was said in the training session as they listened to, "Don't call me ma'am." "I'm sorry, ma'am." "DON'T CALL ME MA'AM." "I'm sorry, I can't help it ma'am."

I'M TALKING TO A MA'AM BOT.

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nerdperson777

Realized last night that I tend to up the pitch of my voice inadvertently when talking to people on the phone or ordering something at a restaurant. I wonder how long this has been going on.

According to my relatives, I sound a lot like my older cousin. If we compare our physical appearance at the same age (her at 12 and me at 12), we look the same too. Once I called my aunt to pick me up from school when my dad couldn't one day. So I talked over when, but may not have said school. So after talking to her for 2-3 minutes, she says, "Oh! You're not [cousin's name]!" It's happened several times before, I think with my mom too.

Another time that cousin was coming to visit me at school. I told my friend that we sound alike so I wanted to see what she thought about it. After a few hours, my friend said that my cousin talks higher pitched and clearer while I'm lower and I mumble a bit. I guess that was another tip I didn't pick up that I wasn't cis.

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dash

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

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Calligraphette_Coe

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

I'm short and have passed pretty well a lot of the time. But beyond that, and this is really awkward for me to ask, but I've often thought of saying to people who call me 'ma'am' and then on a third look, say... "Oh! Sorry", "Well, just between you and me, I was born female and am transistioning to male."

Would that be crass appropriation? Would F2M folks find my doing that really offensive? I've always wanted to ask, but even when I was still hanging out in the community, there were never many transguys around in the spaces I watched to ask.

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dash

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

I'm short and have passed pretty well a lot of the time. But beyond that, and this is really awkward for me to ask, but I've often thought of saying to people who call me 'ma'am' and then on a third look, say... "Oh! Sorry", "Well, just between you and me, I was born female and am transistioning to male."

Would that be crass appropriation? Would F2M folks find my doing that really offensive? I've always wanted to ask, but even when I was still hanging out in the community, there were never many transguys around in the spaces I watched to ask.

I'm not a trans man so I can't speak for them but I'm somewhat uncomfortable with this.

Plus that person might also be trans and then lots of confusion would result.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

I'm short and have passed pretty well a lot of the time. But beyond that, and this is really awkward for me to ask, but I've often thought of saying to people who call me 'ma'am' and then on a third look, say... "Oh! Sorry", "Well, just between you and me, I was born female and am transistioning to male."

Would that be crass appropriation? Would F2M folks find my doing that really offensive? I've always wanted to ask, but even when I was still hanging out in the community, there were never many transguys around in the spaces I watched to ask.

I'm not a trans man so I can't speak for them but I'm somewhat uncomfortable with this.

Plus that person might also be trans and then lots of confusion would result.

I guess I wouldn't mind if the situations were reversed, but I thought that that would be the answer. I just didn't want to ever do anything taboo and make people uncomfortable. That's why I'm asking.

I guess I try to think of any possible way ahead of time of finding something to say to get out of a tense situation without getting beat up, and I thought this was a possibility.

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butterflydreams

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

I'm short and have passed pretty well a lot of the time. But beyond that, and this is really awkward for me to ask, but I've often thought of saying to people who call me 'ma'am' and then on a third look, say... "Oh! Sorry", "Well, just between you and me, I was born female and am transistioning to male."

Would that be crass appropriation? Would F2M folks find my doing that really offensive? I've always wanted to ask, but even when I was still hanging out in the community, there were never many transguys around in the spaces I watched to ask.

I've read about people saying things like that, but only before they're "out" or "full time". So, for example, they're undergoing some kind of transition process (let's say MtF) and they're still operating in "boy-mode" for a large chunk of the time. Obviously, they have some pretty feminine features at this point, so while in boy mode, it's not really clear at all what the story is. Androgynous male, tomboyish female, transitioning FtM...it might be hard to say. I don't think I've seen anything where someone MtF would've specifically said they were actually FtM, but it is one of the impressions people get, and some people do seem to roll with it.

I personally can't imagine being bothered by it, because you're leveraging what you can to help yourself out in some situation, and I wouldn't believe you'd say that unless you felt you had no choice. Like, if we were talking, and you told me you were trans MtF, and I was cool with that*, there's no reason for you to say you're actually FtM. Potential for abuse and/or appropriation? Absolutely. Likely? I don't think so.

*hypothetical me, obviously :) If someone told me me they were trans, I'd probably high-five them and go right on with whatever we were talking about, which would probably be aliens.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

I'm short and have passed pretty well a lot of the time. But beyond that, and this is really awkward for me to ask, but I've often thought of saying to people who call me 'ma'am' and then on a third look, say... "Oh! Sorry", "Well, just between you and me, I was born female and am transistioning to male."

Would that be crass appropriation? Would F2M folks find my doing that really offensive? I've always wanted to ask, but even when I was still hanging out in the community, there were never many transguys around in the spaces I watched to ask.

I've read about people saying things like that, but only before they're "out" or "full time". So, for example, they're undergoing some kind of transition process (let's say MtF) and they're still operating in "boy-mode" for a large chunk of the time. Obviously, they have some pretty feminine features at this point, so while in boy mode, it's not really clear at all what the story is. Androgynous male, tomboyish female, transitioning FtM...it might be hard to say. I don't think I've seen anything where someone MtF would've specifically said they were actually FtM, but it is one of the impressions people get, and some people do seem to roll with it.

I personally can't imagine being bothered by it, because you're leveraging what you can to help yourself out in some situation, and I wouldn't believe you'd say that unless you felt you had no choice. Like, if we were talking, and you told me you were trans MtF, and I was cool with that*, there's no reason for you to say you're actually FtM. Potential for abuse and/or appropriation? Absolutely. Likely? I don't think so.

*hypothetical me, obviously :) If someone told me me they were trans, I'd probably high-five them and go right on with whatever we were talking about, which would probably be aliens.

Gender and sexuality tap into something primal and something almost invariably binary. You're either/ or. If what you were doesn't fit with what you are, you have to go from one 'or' to the other or. If you don't, there is something 'wrong' about you and you need to get fixed. (Please, YMMV so don't shoot me.) It's been *my* experience that in the M2F community I grew up in, Androgyne was not a valid choice. I've heard it said that being an XY androgyne was 'bullshit'....that people like me are 'wannnabes', too gutless to do what has to be done. (Of course, none of the people saying it had ever spent 12 hours on the floor alone in convulsions, almost choking to death like being waterboarded on their own bodily fluids).

Sometimes at night in my dreams, I just beseech the Management of Existence for a biological sign that I could point to, like I could point to in my MRIs for my other condition that makes my life a living hell, like those birthmark scars that the people in Cloud Atlas had, that said: "This person is Transgendered".

" And BTW, see that second birthmark? They are absolutely Asexual, too. "

But in a hierarchal, patriarchal, Binary, Primal Evolutionary Psychology driven world, would they be more like The Scarlet Letter than a biological, USDA-approved meat puppet mark? Would you still be outnumbered and dare not make a stand?

We now return Control of your Transvision device to you. This Dangerous Vision will terminate in 5....4.....3.....2...

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Maelstrom_17

When you send your friend into a bathroom first to make sure it's clear so you wont get harassed.

Trans moments

Hopefully you don't mind my question, but can individuals with neutrosis get harassed in bathrooms?

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dash

When you send your friend into a bathroom first to make sure it's clear so you wont get harassed.

Trans moments

Hopefully you don't mind my question, but can individuals with neutrosis get harassed in bathrooms?

Anyone of any gender identity can get harassed in bathrooms if people read them as in the "wrong" bathroom.

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Heart

Telling people I'm trans and having them think I'm a really, really well-passing MtF person because I'm so tall. (As opposed to a DFAB nonbinary person who happens to be very tall.) >>_<<;;;

I don't recall how it came up, but I know people have thought this and it was Awkward. (Yes I got to be misgendered and told how well I "pass" as that gender, at the same time!)

I'm short and have passed pretty well a lot of the time. But beyond that, and this is really awkward for me to ask, but I've often thought of saying to people who call me 'ma'am' and then on a third look, say... "Oh! Sorry", "Well, just between you and me, I was born female and am transistioning to male."

Would that be crass appropriation? Would F2M folks find my doing that really offensive? I've always wanted to ask, but even when I was still hanging out in the community, there were never many transguys around in the spaces I watched to ask.

I read this and thought about it, and I don't think I'd have a problem with it. But, like dash, I am not ftm, so my opinion is not definitive. However, I would hope that even if the person you were talking to is trans themselves, then they would rspect whatever you say about yourself. Sometimes, mis-labelling yourself in the real world is a closer form of truth than using the "normal" label. You may not be ftm, but you are also not cis. So, to the general public that is not aware of non-binary genders, then maybe ftm is "closer" to the truth. In that sense, I think it is ok to use that in every day conversation with someone you will likely never even see again. Yes, it is a misappropriation, but maybe the lesser of two evils? And heck, if the person you are talking to is trans, then you just met a potential ally! You can decide if you want to come out fully then (not all trans people are people you'd want to come out to, so it's still your choice).

I don't know. Maybe I'm just fed up with cis being the "default" lie. If I have to lie about my gender because the person I'm talking to doesn't know about nonbinary stuff, and I don't have time or inclination to explain and/or don't feel comfortable explaining, then why should my lie always be that I am cis? Why can't I lie on the other side of the spectrum every once in a while?

Then a little voice pops up in my head saying "because trans people are oppressed and cis people aren't." Yes, they are. I should respect that.

I think I just talked myself in a circle. I'm back to "I don't know" again :P

An alternative? Maybe say "Thank you! I've always been fascinated by Japanese culture and recently I've been trying to emulate the fashion of passing as androgynous. I'm flattered that I'm getting better!" ?

And dang. I derailed a fun thread and made it more serious. As appologies, here's some cake :cake: This would be a good topic to talk about though.... *contemplates making my own thread to talk about it*

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butterflydreams

I'll get this thread back on track for you, Heart ;)

I don't know. Maybe I'm just fed up with cis being the "default" lie.

Is it a trans moment to read this and have all of my now daily gender struggling, second guessing, and triple guessing quieted down for a moment? Like one of those trains that clears the snow from the tracks. This made me feel really calm about things when I read it :)

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Calligraphette_Coe

I don't know. Maybe I'm just fed up with cis being the "default" lie. If I have to lie about my gender because the person I'm talking to doesn't know about nonbinary stuff, and I don't have time or inclination to explain and/or don't feel comfortable explaining, then why should my lie always be that I am cis? Why can't I lie on the other side of the spectrum every once in a while?

Sad thing is, if the rest of the human race wasn't so hung up on sex and gender, one wouldn't have to 'lie' to stay safe. But as EP (evolutionary psychology) is an immuteable fact of life, I think we sometimes have to take a 'Ask me no secrets, and I'll tell you no lies' stance to maintain the safety. And then George Bernard Shaw came along with 'There are no secrets but those that keep themselves'.

What's best?

Is 'Passing' the biggest lie, or the the most personally profound truth. Is 'Stealth' a survival technique or something else?

All these problems and dilemmas, just because sex and gender are so primal. :(

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