After sex for a sexual

[Guest]

You guys crack me up. You're totally derailing this thread, but c'est la vie I suppose. Poor RAZ will just have to wade thru this sloggy mess...

@Skullery Maid

Real reality check: asexuals are approximately 1-5% of the population. In fact, you are the majority. Yes, this is AVEN and most posters are on the ace spectrum, but out in the real world, we're not even anything close to the majority.

Silly and irrelevant. The only thing that matters in this thread is that on AVEN, you're the majority and you guys should act more respectfully as such. If you prefer to don your victim hat, go hang out in the real world where you're a minority. But on here, accept that you have the power and the heft of population on your side.

With regards to my...how did you say it? Personal philosophy? Yeah.

Anyway, seeing as you ignored my previous non-sexual example (because this doesn't only apply to sex, it applies to pretty much all interpersonal interactions), let me try some very basic, general examples. Generous but not required: donating to charity. Poor people do want to eat and clothe their children. Obligatory and respectful: not stealing from the poor. I don't think they want what little they have taken from them. Generous but not required: holding a door for somebody. Obligatory and respectful: not slamming a door in somebody's face as they walk behind you. Et cetera.

These examples are meaningless and irrelevant. You can call anything "generous" or "obligatory"... these are personal preferences that you're making up and they have literally no relevance to anything. BTW... obligatory and respectful are not in any way synonyms. In any case, it certainly doesn't prove anything if I say "generous: not having sex with your spouse, Obligatory: having sex with your spouse".

Do you see that making personal declarations of opinion as if it is fact is... well, nothing but personal declarations of opinion.

The thing is, I'm not "getting what I want." (Well, for the record, I'm not even entirely aro/ace. Check the sidebar.) I'm not having something I don't want forced upon me (by an individual, by social pressure, &c.; and keep in mind that even if you do not actively pressure your partner for sex, there is a strong social pressure there, and as many of us have mentioned, the asexual partner will often feel bad because they can't give you something you want, so they create their own guilt/pressure there). There's a big difference.

But see, you can use language to say anything you want it to say. Sexuals can just as easily say that they're having celibacy forced upon them. See how that works? IT'S LIKE MAGIC.

Better thing is to stop trying to convince yourself that your sexual orientation somehow gives you moral superiority.

Oh yeah, and another aside: I've been on both sides of this. Both of the two girls I've ever liked are solidly asexual. My ex liked to cuddle but couldn't deal with kissing, let alone sex. My sex drive is pretty minimal, but further into that relationship I did occasionally start to want more. The friend I currently like is totally aro/ace and can't even reciprocate emotionally, although she basically treats me as furniture, which can make things very painful for me sometimes. Conversely, a straight friend who liked me in high school was so frustrated that she actually tried to force herself on me when she was very drunk; meanwhile, I felt bad that I couldn't reciprocate because I liked her platonically but couldn't force romantic or sexual interest, and I didn't even blame her for what she tried. Another friend in undergrad liked me and again I couldn't force romantic interest (although she was much more reserved and didn't express any sexual interest at the time).

[Guest]

2) if your partner declines sex, don't try again the next day and the next day. This one is harder for me to remember because, in my mind, it's like "but we haven't had sex for so long!" but to her, it's like "I've had to deal with this sex thing every damn day!" For me, I try to think of it like making plans. I'm fairly anti-social, so when someone asks me to hang out and I defer, and they ask the next day and I defer, and they ask the next day, I feel exhausted. I know that from their perspective, we've never hung out, but from my perspective, all I've done for 4 days was fret over their invitations. So, I think it's helpful to space it out.

Yep, that one is pretty important imo. When my partner asks for sex, I say no, well.. I still had to deal with sex that day. I don't think of it as a "sex free day" because I had to reject him, feel guilty for it, put up with his feeling frustrated and rejected and then... next day "Well, we didn't have sex, so sex?" Argh. Just asking is enough to make me feel exhausted and not interested in it at all if it's too much.

It's like when I joked about the Married sitcom line when the husband said to just cut everything off because he doesn't need it and the woman said "I'm OK with that" ...

Have you guys talked about Married??! I came back to start a thread on the topic but everyone was real hostile about how SHE'S NOT REALLY ASEXUAL.

Still though, my lady and I loved the show, watched it religiously. It make us uncomfortable, but in a good way I think.

I watched it because of your thread, actually. I posted in it, but yeah, it was going a bit off topic about her not being asexual. She used to be a "normal" sexual, now she never wants it and honestly... I could relate to her even if she had some level of sexuality to her. So, I don't think her not being "true asexual" really mattered in it for the mixed aspect. I totally know how it feels for someone to be like "Dirty talk to me, dirty talk to me!" and her bored reaction while reading the magazine during that scene was how I feel about sex in general. haha

My partner never watched it. I don't think he would want to. I try to not talk about AVEN, asexuality or anything much around him. It ends up making us both annoyed, because he says something ignorant and it ruins his self-built illusion (that he knows is an illusion, but he does it anyway) that sex isn't totally boring for me. No matter how many times we've talked about it, he still prefers to think I "enjoy it"... *sigh* So, shattering his illusion just makes him grumpy, kinda like your partner would prefer to think you just don't want sex. I don't think understanding is really something some people can do about things so vastly different than their way of thinking. No matter how many times you tell them how you feel about something.

[RAZS]

Ok wow thats a lot of reading lol

As it turns out you guys made my head spin worse than my sweetie does lol. And when I called her from work on my lunch tonight I was straight with her that I'm sttarbing for affection from her. She apologized and said she didnt realize how much it was affecting me and that she would make more of an effort because she doesn't want me to hurt. We didnt talk about sex I'm not going to push my luck lol but I think she heard me about the affection aspect and we will see what happens.

[Xavy]

I didn't like the video.

Ditto

[Frigid Pink]

I found this site a few weeks ago looking for some answers to what is (not) happening in my life but right now I have to say Im reading some of these posts and I think maybe she resents me wanting her as much as I resent her not wanting me. Feeling like the person you love most and want to be close to wants nothing to do with you is a huge hurt that doesnt go away and isnt getting any better. Its frustrating - I get offers but the only person I want to touch me wants nothing to do with me in that regard. I think that unless you have been on either side of this issue yourself you cant possibly understand how that person feels. I cant possibly understand how an asexual person feels and I would never claim that I can. But an asexual person has NO idea how a sexual person feels either.

I think whether or not your partner feels resentment depends on a lot of factors. My gut feeling says that if sexual partners are telling their aces things like "but sex is normal, you have try" or "you don't love me if you don't want to have sex with me", that will create resentment quickly. I don't think anyone means to do it intentionally, but backing someone into the corner and making them "prove" their love or commitment or whathaveyou... that has resentment written all over it. If a sexual partner doesn't acknowledge the other's feelings and needs, that would create resentment.

I don't think it's significantly different from anything else in a relationship. If cleaning the house every day without thanks, without acknowledgement, and without any effort on your spouse's behalf would make someone resentful, then that's going to be true about sex too. If a sexual decides that sex "just is" part of the relationship and considers it an unquestionable fact, that's going to breed resentment.

But, everybody is different.

Here are two things, for what its worth, that I've found helpful re: curbing resentment from the asexual partner:

1) sexuals should turn down sex sometimes, even if you don't want to turn it down. It really is surprisingly helpful.

2) if your partner declines sex, don't try again the next day and the next day. This one is harder for me to remember because, in my mind, it's like "but we haven't had sex for so long!" but to her, it's like "I've had to deal with this sex thing every damn day!" For me, I try to think of it like making plans. I'm fairly anti-social, so when someone asks me to hang out and I defer, and they ask the next day and I defer, and they ask the next day, I feel exhausted. I know that from their perspective, we've never hung out, but from my perspective, all I've done for 4 days was fret over their invitations. So, I think it's helpful to space it out.

But, I also recognize I can't make him LIKE what I want. So, my options are deal with the incompatibility or leave. And those options suck, but they are the only ones when someone truly doesn't enjoy something, cause you can get them to do it, but you can never get them to want it/enjoy it.

Totally!

I was just thinking this morning that for me personally, acceptance is the only real option. There is no compromise for us, unfortunately... she doesn't want to have sex when she doesn't feel like it, and honestly, I don't want her to. And I could sit and wish I had a different set of circumstances in front of me, but all the wishing in the world won't make it so. Dealing with things as they are is surprisingly easy. It's accepting that things are how they are that's the hard part.

As an "asexual" in a "mixed" relationship, I actually agree with (and relate to) this and think it's pretty sound (and wise) advice.

I didn't like the video.

Ditto

My main criticism has been about the video and the way it came across to me and the feelings I had in response to it. Regardless of whether the partners in the video are asexual or sexual or something else, it's still the same principle. I don't like the video or the attitude(s) portrayed in it, regardless of anyone's sexuality in it.

[Guest]

Ok wow thats a lot of reading lol

As it turns out you guys made my head spin worse than my sweetie does lol. And when I called her from work on my lunch tonight I was straight with her that I'm sttarbing for affection from her. She apologized and said she didnt realize how much it was affecting me and that she would make more of an effort because she doesn't want me to hurt. We didnt talk about sex I'm not going to push my luck lol but I think she heard me about the affection aspect and we will see what happens.

Haha sorry, we can sometimes write walls in an effort to explain ourselves clearly enough. I'm glad you two talked though. Communication is really all it boils down to. :)

[Guest]

Still don't think you know what bigoted means.

No comment <_<

But see, you can use language to say anything you want it to say. Sexuals can just as easily say that they're having celibacy forced upon them. See how that works? IT'S LIKE MAGIC.

Better thing is to stop trying to convince yourself that your sexual orientation somehow gives you moral superiority.

^^^This is what you seem to have been getting at, this entire thread: That asexuals seem to think we are morally superior (and have victim complexes). You seem to have been taking this concept, and applying it to everything I (and others) say, in your own round-about, rather hostile way,

If an asexual started a thread saying ''YAY I haven't had sex with my sexual partner for FOUR WHOLE MONTHS, new record, go me!!'' I can't imagine any one of us would jump in and say ''yay! go you that's awesome!'' .. we'd have questions regarding the partners feelings, of course. And you may then get one or two people jumping in going off at us (the way that you are, just on the opposite side of the fence) saying ''how dare you question the partners feelings?! this person is happy who are you to question their happiness?! how dare you just automatically assume this person is a cold, heartless arsehole for not having had sex with their partner for four months, sex is not an obligation! you're promoting rape culture!'' but it's not about questioning their happiness, it's not about saying ''you should be giving your partner sex'' ..No one would be saying that regardless of how some people choose to interpret what we are saying. (ie what you are doing: You are interpreting what we are saying in ways we never initially meant, to support your own arguments and to reinforce the beliefs you have surrounding our ''morally superior'' mindsets. That's what I have been noticing with your replies to me anyway)

The reason we would ask about the sexual partners feelings, is that we believe both partners have a right to be happy, and if the sexual is possibly miserable while the asexual is celebrating, then we wouldn't feel right celebrating the asexuals joy with them because their joy would possibly be at the detriment of their sexual partner (we don't know this though, as we haven't been given enough info one way or the other - and no, this is not to say we are demanding more info, we just don't know so we can't automatically assume the sexual is happy, just as we cant automatically assume they are miserable. All we can do is ask after the sexual partner before we make the decision to be happy with the asexual or not).

If they then expanded on the story to say ''well my partner is really depressed because we haven't been having sex, I can tell he/she is miserable but seriously, I really don't like sex, it makes me miserable and my partner knows this and is respecting my feelings.. we don't want to break up because we love each other, I seriously just feel so happy that we have been able to go without sex for so long even though yes I know my partner is unhappy'' we'd suggest maybe an ace friendly marriage counselor or something, so that they can try and find a healthy balance (that does not involve sex if it upsets the ace that much) maybe it means giving the sexual partner a long sensual massage three times a week or something, some solution that they can both be happy with. Maybe it would be unfair of us to question their relationship and to be 'raining on the ace's parade', but as this a public website, and they have just made their thread available to over 60,000 members and anyone else who happens to be passing by, it stands to reason that there will be a few people who are going to automatically say ''how is your partner feeling, are they happy too?'' ... that's life. That's how it goes.

And I can guarantee you there may be a few sexual partners and allies who have a thing or two to say as well. I can't imagine that every sexual person who see's a comment like that will sit on their hands and say ''well this is a website about asexuality, who am I to judge? their partner is possibly rather miserable right now, but I'm not going to say anything because this ace is obviously very happy, good for them not having sex for so long!'' .. that's not going to happen because clearly there are two people in this situation, and both their feelings matter.

I am imaging you may be going to jump in and say something like: ''who are you to question their relationship? what gives you the right to demand details?'' However, no one is demanding details, just voicing concern for the sexual partners feelings, as this is a relationship and it's about both people's happiness and well-being. No one would be saying the ace has to start having sex to please their partner, we would want to encourage them to try and find solutions that they can both be happy with, for the benefit of both partners and their relationship as a whole. Now you may be going say ''but it's none of your business, just leave them alone!'' but the fact is, like I said above, they have just posted a comment in a public forum with over 60,000 members, of course there are going to be multiple and varied responses. And hey, maybe the ace will come back and say: well actually we had such a long talk about it a while back, and we have been doing other things to satisfy his/her intimate needs that don't involve sex, honestly it's working out so wonderfully for us both we are really happy with this compromise!'' then we would all say ''wow yea that's so awesome good for you guys!'' and give them heaps of cake because that really is awesome.

Not saying the situation I presented above (an ace making a celebration thread about not having had sex with a sexual partner despite the fact that the partner is miserable) would ever actually happen, but who knows? I was merely trying to present a situation on the opposite side of the fence because you seem so intent on proving that we a victim and/or a moral superiority complex, when really all you are doing is displaying bigoted opinions about the way aces think based on your own personal, mistaken assumptions. Oh wait I just used that word again even though apparently I don't know what means, oops.

There was actually a thread started recently about an article in which a self-identified asexual woman is reveling in the fact that she worked out how to have orgasms for herself and promptly dumped her sexual partner of 3 years because 'what asexual needs a partner when you have a set of AAA batteries?' lets just say her article has not been met with enthusiasm from the vast majority of asexuals who viewed it here, or who commented on the article itself (due to the awful way she treated her sexual partner, not because she enjoys masturbating, just to be clear). I only point this out to clarify the fact that no, (most) asexuals do not have the moral superiority complexes and/or victim complexes you seem to think we do, we actually do care about how sexual partners feel as well (obviously) but it's a two way thing. (And as to those aces who do have moral superiority complexes and/or victim complexes, that's an individual thing, not an asexual thing. There are just as many sexual people per head of population who have superiority complexes, moral, victim or otherwise)

You guys crack me up. You're totally derailing this thread, but c'est la vie I suppose. Poor RAZ will just have to wade thru this sloggy mess...

The only thing that matters in this thread is that on AVEN, you're the majority and you guys should act more respectfully as such. If you prefer to don your victim hat, go hang out in the real world where you're a minority. But on here, accept that you have the power and the heft of population on your side...

And you should just get off your 'minority high horse'. Do asexuals have any more right to be tiptoed around in the real world just because we are a vast minority? nope. So why should we tiptoe around you here in the hopes we don't say anything that might upset you, despite the fact that most of your frustration is coming from your own personal interpretations of what we are saying, not what we are actually saying. I saw one person's comment here that did possibly imply actual disrespect towards the OP, one. The rest are about the video, or my comments in which I no way was implying disrespect, or that no consent was given, or anything of the sort! Yet you went out of your way to turn them (practically all the comments here actually) into something malicious and in doing so, have completely derailed the thread. Then you say it's us derailing the thread, when all any of us have done is reply to your malicious attempts to twist the meanings behind our comments, see how this is working???

So I tried to be supportive of the OP at the same time at being supportive of the wife's feelings, whatever they were. Apparently that is a massive issue for you, but meh, I say again, it's a public forum, there will potentially be many varied opinions in reply to any post made, regardless of who makes the post.

[RAZS]

Haha sorry, we can sometimes write walls in an effort to explain ourselves clearly enough. I'm glad you two talked though. Communication is really all it boils down to. :)

The painful truth is that I have talked to her about this before - many times and many tears in the first 3 years we were together. And I have heard this response before as well. And every time I hope and hope and for a week or two it will be better and then it will be the same again.

I think whether or not your partner feels resentment depends on a lot of factors. My gut feeling says that if sexual partners are telling their aces things like "but sex is normal, you have try" or "you don't love me if you don't want to have sex with me", that will create resentment quickly. I don't think anyone means to do it intentionally, but backing someone into the corner and making them "prove" their love or commitment or whathaveyou... that has resentment written all over it. If a sexual partner doesn't acknowledge the other's feelings and needs, that would create resentment.

I have never said any of those things to her. And I never would. I have cried and asked if shes even attracted to me - and she insists she is. Truthfully I dont even KNOW if shes at all resentful - it never occurred to me that she might be until I started reading different threads on here.

If you don't mind me asking, how often do you guys have sex now, and how many times do you get rejected before it actually happens? What does your gf say about her sexual appetite?

Its been more than 7 months since she let me touch her. And more than 13 months since she touched me.

And I DONT ask - I learned in the first 3 years that asking will always result in a no.

About a week after our first night together she told me she had never been all that interested in sex - 2 months later - when it finally happened again - we got out of bed and literally less than an hour after sex she was telling me again that she had never been all that interested in sex. But then went on to say that she was interested in sex with me. I know - she told me that she had never been all that interested. I didnt understand that shes just not interested AT ALL.

Weve been together almost 5 years and Im lucky if once every 6 months I get to have sex. We are in and out of bed in 20 minutes or less - she rarely touches me - its pretty one sided.

The last 18 months have been even more difficult because she has completely withdrawn from me. I get a kiss (more like a peck) when she leaves for work in the morning and another one on our way to bed at night. Thats it. Thats the extent of the physical contact in my house. She sits in the armchair at the computer desk across the room from me all evening and thats it. My granddaughters have beautiful crocheted blankets and my dog sure gets lots of snuggles because of it. But I feel like Im losing my mind. All Im asking for is a little affection. She used to be able to do it. It hurts that she just wont give me an inch. Its all got to be her way and my feelings seemingly dont matter.

[My alias]

Let just put the whole rapist thing aside and agree that from the information that I have provided and from what you know about me, that I am not a rapist.

It has gotten from "did it and it has been a while" to that....

Yes it seems that you've sparked a war of massive passive aggressive paragraphs

[Lady Girl]

This thread is being locked for a 3 day cool down period. When it opens again, I would like to ask that responses take on a more civil tone or it will be permanently locked. In the mean time, please refrain from starting new threads to discuss the issues that are causing tension in it right now. Thanks.

Lady Girl, Moderator