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Help me update the definitions master list!


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Hey AVENites!

I am currently in the process of attempting to update the definitions master list. Our dearest Nalle Neversure wrote it back in 2010 for us, and we appreciate all the work put in to it; it has been a valuable resource for many of us. So now I am going to try to update it; we are a quickly evolving community that constantly is growing and expanding, and part of that is the creation of new terms and re-definition of some of the old ones. While some issues have already been brought up with the admod team, I know there are probably others out there.

Help me with suggestions of new terms to add, and definitions. If you think there are any old definitions that need changing, please post here as well with your thoughts. I will do my best to encorporate as much of your input as possible in my new definitions list, so post away!

In the meantime, I will be drafting the new one. Wish me luck!

Sincerely, your friendly local moderator.

Heart

Gender Discussions Moderator

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1 Good luck

2 The definition of cisgender includ post-op transsexual, it would be better defined with gender assigned at birth.

3 A definition for gender assigned at birth.

4 genderqueer as idendity or third gender or something that won't make look the list of possible gender idendity as a gender Stroms model.

5 Your definition of chromosome is false for chromosome isn't a part of the human genom but all the human genom.

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1 Good luck

2 The definition of cisgender includ post-op transsexual, it would be better defined with gender assigned at birth.

3 A definition for gender assigned at birth.

4 genderqueer as idendity or third gender or something that won't make look the list of possible gender idendity as a gender Stroms model.

5 Your definition of chromosome is false for chromosome isn't a part of the human genom but all the human genom.

1 - Thank you! I think I'll need it...

2 - Noted, thank you.

3 - I've added in AFAB, AMAB and AIAB (Assigned female/male/intersex at birth). Are there any others that are in common usage?

4 - Ok, also noted.

5 - Oops. I'm not a biologist, so I'll work on it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!

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Much luck in revising it!! : )) I hope you get more responses about edits/adds, too. :cake:

For androgyne, I think adding a bit from the gender wiki would be helpful. Especially regarding the difference between androgyne and bigender because I've seen several people question that.

Also perhaps specify that androgyne is a genderqueer/non-binary gender identity that includes a mix of masculine/feminine traits or somewhere in between the two that's less defined. Because I know it gets confused with being purely a gender expression, when it is an identity, too! Not all androgynes present androgynously, and not all androgynous-looking people identify as androgyne. : )

Thanks, and I hope it made sense lol! And that other androgynes/androgynous people agree.

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Awesome. I have made a note to update the definition of androgyne to make it more explicit how it is different from bigender, and also to add that androgyne can be either a gender or a gender expression, and that the two do not need to align.

Thank you for the feedback!

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hi! this is a great idea! there are a couple things on there that i'd change...
for demiguy and transfeminine, i'd write out the full definition instead of "the reverse of ___." i feel like the current format kinda reinforces the binary. :)
also, genderfluid is different from genderless. genderfluid people feel their gender is fluid or in flux; one day, they may feel more male/masculine/man-ish, the next day, they may feel more genderless, and the next day, they may feel more female/feminine/woman-ish. their gender state is not set, it's mutable.
also, have you considered putting non-binary identities on there, such as agender, non-binary, genderless, neutrois? so many ace people identify somewhere on the non-binary scale that it might be worth thinking about. :)
(i also noticed that "chromosome" is misspelled. :) )
anyway, great list, and i'm glad you're updating it!

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hi! this is a great idea! there are a couple things on there that i'd change...

for demiguy and transfeminine, i'd write out the full definition instead of "the reverse of ___." i feel like the current format kinda reinforces the binary. :)

also, genderfluid is different from genderless. genderfluid people feel their gender is fluid or in flux; one day, they may feel more male/masculine/man-ish, the next day, they may feel more genderless, and the next day, they may feel more female/feminine/woman-ish. their gender state is not set, it's mutable.

also, have you considered putting non-binary identities on there, such as agender, non-binary, genderless, neutrois? so many ace people identify somewhere on the non-binary scale that it might be worth thinking about. :)

(i also noticed that "chromosome" is misspelled. :) )

anyway, great list, and i'm glad you're updating it!

Thank you! I have added these to my to-do list. And you've actually hit on the whole reason I wanted to update it; I noticed the bias towards binary definitions, so I started this whole thing with the mind to put in agender and genderless, and how they are different... But I'm still struggling with how to put into words the difference :P If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears!

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  • 2 weeks later...

1 Take aways "who is bron as male/female" from the definition of transmen and transwomen and from everywhere else. (AMAB and AFAB are better)

2 I don't really agree with AIAB because intersex people will still be assigned a binary gender at birth. AMAB and AFAB sould not be used as a politically correct way to speak about so called "Biological sex". The idea behind "biological sex" end gender assigned at birth are and should stay different. What "gender assigned at birth" meen is well explain here.

3 I would separate he "pronom" from "she" pronom in the pronom list for is sorta marginalizing every other pronom.

4 Maybe a list of gender presentation just after the definition of gender presentation (femme/feminine, butch/masculine, androgynous, genderfuck)

5 Dysphoria

6 Separate gender idendity from desirs to transition or dysphoria in genderless and neurtrois

7 Good luck again

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1 Take aways "who is bron as male/female" from the definition of transmen and transwomen and from everywhere else. (AMAB and AFAB are better)

2 I don't really agree with AIAB because intersex people will still be assigned a binary gender at birth. AMAB and AFAB sould not be used as a politically correct way to speak about so called "Biological sex". The idea behind "biological sex" end gender assigned at birth are and should stay different. What "gender assigned at birth" meen is well explain here.

3 I would separate he "pronom" from "she" pronom in the pronom list for is sorta marginalizing every other pronom.

4 Maybe a list of gender presentation just after the definition of gender presentation (femme/feminine, butch/masculine, androgynous, genderfuck)

5 Dysphoria

6 Separate gender idendity from desirs to transition or dysphoria in genderless and neurtrois

7 Good luck again

Thank you so much for the suggestions! I will read more about the difference between "born as female/male" and AFAB/AMAB. However, I have a few questions about some of the other suggestions... forgive me.

My first question is what is genderfuck as a presentation? And, I've heard many different opinions on the definitions of femme, feminine, butch and masculine, but I'd love to also hear yours.

And, for number 5, what do you mean by "Disphoria"? I don't quite understand what you would like done...

Thank you for taking the time to help with this!!!

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Thank you so much for the suggestions! I will read more about the difference between "born as female/male" and AFAB/AMAB. However, I have a few questions about some of the other suggestions... forgive me.

My first question is what is genderfuck as a presentation? And, I've heard many different opinions on the definitions of femme, feminine, butch and masculine, but I'd love to also hear yours.

And, for number 5, what do you mean by "Disphoria"? I don't quite understand what you would like done...

Thank you for taking the time to help with this!!!

At mycurrent understanding of the world,

Genderfuck would be a gender presentation/expression with very gendered element coming from both masculine and feminine gender presentation/expression in a goal to subvert gender.

Feminine and Femme is a gender presentation/expression associated with women

Masculine and Bucth is a gender presentation/expression associated with men

Disphoria is a feeling of unhappyness toward one assigned gender. Disphoria make people want to transition. I didn't see it discibed in the old definition master list but I think it sould be in the new one

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Awesome!! Thank you for the clarifications. I shall add those points to my to do list. :cake:

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Where is cis-genderless? A term that is recognized in here for a while, and it defines people who identifies with their birth certificate without having a feeling associated with gender or having the lack of conception of gender as if it comes like that. The term was invented for gender-minded people to know that there are people who identifies with their birth sex without ever having a feeling of gender.

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I see it's been mentioned, but I would find it very important to further elaborate on transgender being an umbrella term and that androgynous, agender or indifferent people can fit under it, if they want to. Many people seem to think that either transgender and transsexual are synonymous or that transgender people are transsexuals who won't be having surgery. That bothers me a lot and I know for a fact that that's the reason why so many who fit under the umbrella shun the term transgender and came up with agender specifically instead. It would be interesting to hear from AVENites what they feel the difference between agender, genderless and nongender is. The terms do mean the same thing, but people have had different definitions.

I think something we would all benefit from is the inclusion of phile (Ancient Greek for lover, appreciator, friend). We have the art term X-sexual, coined a few centuries ago. And then we very recently started to use X-romantic, too. Didn't that even start on AVEN? Anyway, here's what I'm talking about.

Heterophile, lover of the opposite sex or gender

Homophile, lover of the same sex or gender

Panphile, lover of all sexes or genders

Etc. Legit terms, original meaning, correct etymology, even still used in other languages. I did not make this up. Makes no mention of whether your non-platonic attraction is romantic or sexual or whether it's geared towards a sex or a gender specifically. I think that is very sweet for people who are aware of co-existing different forms of attractions and the differences between sex and gender. I think straight aces could appreciate that as much as the many non-straight aces could. When I am referred to as a homosexual, that is simply not true. Imagine people calling you heterosexual just because your romantic orientation is hetero. Homophile, on the other hand? You bet that's a term I feel comfortable with.

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Where is cis-genderless? A term that is recognized in here for a while, and it defines people who identifies with their birth certificate without having a feeling associated with gender or having the lack of conception of gender as if it comes like that. The term was invented for gender-minded people to know that there are people who identifies with their birth sex without ever having a feeling of gender.

I have just made a note to add in cis-genderless in my list. Thanks for pointing this out! I can't believe I almost left it out.

I see it's been mentioned, but I would find it very important to further elaborate on transgender being an umbrella term and that androgynous, agender or indifferent people can fit under it, if they want to. Many people seem to think that either transgender and transsexual are synonymous or that transgender people are transsexuals who won't be having surgery. That bothers me a lot and I know for a fact that that's the reason why so many who fit under the umbrella shun the term transgender and came up with agender specifically instead. It would be interesting to hear from AVENites what they feel the difference between agender, genderless and nongender is. The terms do mean the same thing, but people have had different definitions.

I think something we would all benefit from is the inclusion of phile (Ancient Greek for lover, appreciator, friend). We have the art term X-sexual, coined a few centuries ago. And then we very recently started to use X-romantic, too. Didn't that even start on AVEN? Anyway, here's what I'm talking about.

Heterophile, lover of the opposite sex or gender

Homophile, lover of the same sex or gender

Panphile, lover of all sexes or genders

Etc. Legit terms, original meaning, correct etymology, even still used in other languages. I did not make this up. Makes no mention of whether your non-platonic attraction is romantic or sexual or whether it's geared towards a sex or a gender specifically. I think that is very sweet for people who are aware of co-existing different forms of attractions and the differences between sex and gender. I think straight aces could appreciate that as much as the many non-straight aces could. When I am referred to as a homosexual, that is simply not true. Imagine people calling you heterosexual just because your romantic orientation is hetero. Homophile, on the other hand? You bet that's a term I feel comfortable with.

I will also work on the trans definitions, and see what I can do about that. As for the "phile" ones, I shall have to see whether that fits in here in gender. That might be a better one to bring up in either romantic orientations or asexual Q&A. I see gender as more of a "how you wish to perceive yourself and interact with society" while attractions are more of a "who you feel a pull towards, in some way" kind of thing. I will see how long my list gets, and I will consider it, but make sure to use these words in other subfora if you want them to catch on :)

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Yeah, they obviously have nothing to do with gender identity by any means, I just think that they are useful for people aware of gender variety and those who want to work around "I'm not homosexual" and that's why I wanted to bring it up ;) Intersexual was brought up and that has nothing to do with gender, either.

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Ok, thanks! I'll keep it in mind.

Keep them comments coming! I'll keep taking comments for a couple more weeks, then I'll release a draft and take comments on that too :D

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butterflydreams

I thought of this on my way to work this morning. I've never heard this before, and maybe it overlaps with some other term I'm unaware of, so feel free to ignore if it does.

You know how they often refer to a politician as a RINO or DINO? Republican In Name Only and Democrat In Name Only respectively. I was thinking you could have something similar for gender. Like, MIBO or FIBO, being Male In Body Only and Female In Body Only respectively. Seems like it might be helpful to someone just exploring their gender for the first time. All they might be sure of is that they're male in body. Other than that...they could be still figuring it out.

I dunno, maybe it's too close to AMAB and AFAB. Anyway, had the thought, remembered your list, figured it was worth throwing it out there. I'm excited for the new list ^_^

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I thought of this on my way to work this morning. I've never heard this before, and maybe it overlaps with some other term I'm unaware of, so feel free to ignore if it does.

You know how they often refer to a politician as a RINO or DINO? Republican In Name Only and Democrat In Name Only respectively. I was thinking you could have something similar for gender. Like, MIBO or FIBO, being Male In Body Only and Female In Body Only respectively. Seems like it might be helpful to someone just exploring their gender for the first time. All they might be sure of is that they're male in body. Other than that...they could be still figuring it out.

I dunno, maybe it's too close to AMAB and AFAB. Anyway, had the thought, remembered your list, figured it was worth throwing it out there. I'm excited for the new list ^_^

Wow! I'm so honoured you remembered my list!! I can't tell you how warm and fuzzy that makes me feel :cake:

I like the idea. I don't know if there is a demand for terminology like that, because it is very similar to AMAB/AFAB, but there's no harm in including it. Who knows, maybe you've started a trend and it'll catch on ;)

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I'll just make a comment on everything in the whole list.. Mostly, these won't be full re-definitions, but more like advice on it.

First thing I notice about the whole list: It's really empty.

"regular chromosomes"

Having several of X or Y sex-chromosones isn't having "non-regular" chromosones, it's having aditional sex chromosones.

"resemble a sex other than its birth sex"

What is the "its" refering to here, anyway?

Chromosones are really just a chain of DNA codes, the chromosones in this context are the sex-chromosones X and Y.

Agender: Having no gender.

Bigender: Having two genders.

Isn't genderless the same as agender?

Gender fluid: This should probably be re-defined, but I think actual gender fluid people should make a comment on that one.

Transmasculine, cross out the female part, it can just be a person whose gender is mostly masculine.

Cisgender: Someone who conforms to the gender they were assigned to at birth and are comfortable with their sex, and do not desire any form of transition.

I think we should all take our time to discuss the meaning of gender, try to remain as simple and objective as possible with the definition of gender.

I feel "Gender: one’s nonphysical identity (it does not have to be similar to your biological sex), often the sex one feels one should be" is wrong though, it doesn't sound like any definition I've heard of, obviously similar, but I think this one should be re-defined.

I think cross dressing, transvertism and drag queens/kings should be included, as well as gender roles, but only to clarify and differentiate and clear up missunderstandings with their relation to gender.

I think you should honestly just try to reword everything, it seems a bit messy, unclear and empty.. Maybe add some examples? You should also try linking to different sort of wikis, or check em out for yourself, do some research, well, I mean this is research, but I mean more article-esque research.

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I'll just make a comment on everything in the whole list.. Mostly, these won't be full re-definitions, but more like advice on it.

First thing I notice about the whole list: It's really empty.

"regular chromosomes"

Having several of X or Y sex-chromosones isn't having "non-regular" chromosones, it's having aditional sex chromosones.

"resemble a sex other than its birth sex"

What is the "its" refering to here, anyway?

Chromosones are really just a chain of DNA codes, the chromosones in this context are the sex-chromosones X and Y.

Agender: Having no gender.

Bigender: Having two genders.

Isn't genderless the same as agender?

Gender fluid: This should probably be re-defined, but I think actual gender fluid people should make a comment on that one.

Transmasculine, cross out the female part, it can just be a person whose gender is mostly masculine.

Cisgender: Someone who conforms to the gender they were assigned to at birth and are comfortable with their sex, and do not desire any form of transition.

I think we should all take our time to discuss the meaning of gender, try to remain as simple and objective as possible with the definition of gender.

I feel "Gender: one’s nonphysical identity (it does not have to be similar to your biological sex), often the sex one feels one should be" is wrong though, it doesn't sound like any definition I've heard of, obviously similar, but I think this one should be re-defined.

I think cross dressing, transvertism and drag queens/kings should be included, as well as gender roles, but only to clarify and differentiate and clear up missunderstandings with their relation to gender.

I think you should honestly just try to reword everything, it seems a bit messy, unclear and empty.. Maybe add some examples? You should also try linking to different sort of wikis, or check em out for yourself, do some research, well, I mean this is research, but I mean more article-esque research.

Thank you a lot for the thoughts! I have in fact been trying to look up wikkis and such as part of the research, and I think I'm getting some good material. I see the problem with "regular chromosomes", and I'll try to make the other one more clear by replacing "its" with something a bit more explicit.

As for the difference between agender and genderless, I don't really know... I know that I have met some people who say that there is a difference, but I have always struggled a little to figure out what that difference is. I'll be doing more research into it when I get to that section of the definition.

In the meantime though, if anyone has suggestions or ideas for a better definition of "gender" or "agender vs genderless", I would LOVE to hear them! Any help is appreciated!

*makes mental note to also include gender roles and presentations, and some examples to make it an easier read

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As for the difference between agender and genderless, I don't really know... I know that I have met some people who say that there is a difference, but I have always struggled a little to figure out what that difference is. I'll be doing more research into it when I get to that section of the definition.

It's a bit like discussing the practical differences between bisexual and pansexual. But it could be actualy synonyms, though things are rarely that and are actually just very often just extremely similar. Some of these are really just things people are still discussing.

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Additional note about cis-genderless, I'd put it under a variation of cisgender or genderless seeing as some would perceive a cis-genderless person as a genderless person seeing as the person in question has 0 feelings associated with gender while other would perceives a cis-genderless person as a cis person because of definition of gender being used is identity.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Awesome.

A HUGE thank you to everyone who gave me their comments!!!! I am going to lock this thread for now, so I can focus on writing the new definitions master list. If anyone has anything pressing to contribute though, feel free to PM me. Once I've got a working draft up and running, I'll put it up for more comments before making it the final definitions thread.

Once again, thank you to everyone who is helping out. I really appreciate all the aid I can get, and you have all been super helpful and patient in your suggestions and contributions! I will do my best to do this project justice :D

Heart

Gender Discussions Moderator

PS - this is taking a bit longer. Please be patient, I'm on it :)

Edit 2: As sometimes happens, life gets in the way of some things. I've been dealing with a lot, and as many of you have probably noticed, not produced a draft. I'm about half done, and I just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten! I'm on it, but I no longer have any idea how long it will take. Time, I guess, of some form ;)

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