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Kink, BDSM, and Cake


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On 3/17/2022 at 7:41 AM, Arson said:

It took me a lot of time to know that I am ace because I am VERY sex positive, I am into BDSM, I love talking about kinks and sex and everything,

Opposite. It took me a long time to explore my kinky side because I was afraid I would be expected to have sex/ at least have a large sexual component. Luckily now I get to do lots of platonic kink and really enjoy it.☺️

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Sister Mercurial

Well, the munch went OK, I think, except I forgot what time my coach home was, missed it and had to get a train, which then got cancelled and I had to get another one.  At least the Delay Repay meant it wasn't much more expense.  And I don't know how I got that freaking drunk on Ruddles (3.8%).  The discussions went reasonably well, though.  At least, I think.  Starting to learn more about certain technical aspects.  Don't know how soon it'll translate into an event for it, though.  

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RandomAce8701
13 hours ago, SaturnOOO said:

Opposite. It took me a long time to explore my kinky side because I was afraid I would be expected to have sex/ at least have a large sexual component. Luckily now I get to do lots of platonic kink and really enjoy it.☺️

In private or only at events? How did you meet your current play partner(s)? Are you top/dom or bottom/sub? I don't see how I can get any kink without either a) going to events (significant covid risk), or b) dating with a view to doing kink privately (significant personal safety issues, plus from their point of view me not being part of the local scene is a red flag traditionally)?

Edited by Matthew42
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1 hour ago, Matthew42 said:

In private or only at events? How did you meet your current play partner(s)? Are you top/dom or bottom/sub? I don't see how I can get any kink without either a) going to events (significant covid risk), or b) dating with a view to doing kink privately (significant personal safety issues, plus from their point of view me not being part of the local scene is a red flag traditionally)?

I definitely hear you and I think this is a really common issue especially if you are masc presenting. In answer to your questions:

1. Both in private and at play parties, but mostly play parties.

2. I switch.

 

I have a few things going for me in this regard. 

-I am pretty femme which I do feel gives me an easier "in." People don't view me with as much suspicion.

-In my "local" community (I do events in the nearest big city which is 2.5 hrs away from where I actually live,) there is a person who runs queer events who is very ace friendly and really makes an effort to welcome queer newbies. Because I am attracted to women and femme presenting people, don't desire sex from anyone, will play with anyone but have way more limits with cismen than other genders... I dunno I just feel very comfortable in the environment this person creates to be my own weird brand of ace/queer. 

-said person is also immunocompromised so her play parties follow stricter covid measures than the general government guidelines including continuing to require a vaccine passport even after provincial mandates were dropped.

-Finally I was lucky enough to make a friend online who is also ace and she introduced me to some of her other ace friends/play partners. 

 

Even with all this, my first couple events was mostly just standing around feeling awkward like I would at any party. Personally I do feel that in person events is really the way to meet people/gain recognition and trust in the community though. I also find that events are the places that I find more like minded people. Ie online it seems like everything is about sex and everyone is paired off into their het relationships. In person I find there is actually A LOT of platonic kink that goes on and people are more flexible than they appear online. Maybe as the weather gets warmer you could see if there are any outdoor events going on in your area? 

 

I do find it depends very heavily on the event you go to what kind of atmosphere it is though. I have gone to some that are not really my cup of tea which is why I go almost exclusively to said queer events. If you are masc, you will probably need to work a bit harder to advertise yourself as someone who is NOT looking for sex... Which may actually work in your favour because at least you would distinguish yourself from the hoards of dudes looking to get laid. 

 

Hopefully there was some useful information in this response. 

 

Edit: classes in whatever area of kink you are interested in are also a great way to meet people in a low pressure environment. Not only that but you are showing the people around you that you care about growing your skill set and are not just there to pick up "easy" kinky women. XD

Edited by SaturnOOO
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3 hours ago, Notaradish said:

Haaaah... I wonder how much this translates into gay male spaces. Where your partners are other men. No het, or women. I'm sure the basic gists still apply, but I fear being aroace and no sex becomes a little more detrimental in that scenario.

TBH I don't know! For all it seemed the queer presence in general was hard to find for me, the gay male presence seems to be nonexistent. I'm positive this is not the case, but they must be hanging out in different spaces. :( 

But  yeah, not going to lie I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. 😕 

I can only speak to my own little group, but for sure there are some men who go to the general queer events that would be open to non-sexual kink with another man. I don't know of any men who are gay (though that doesn't mean there aren't any as I'm still pretty new,) but there are several who are bi/pan and interested in male kink partners. 

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Sister Mercurial
3 minutes ago, SaturnOOO said:

For all it seemed the queer presence in general was hard to find for me, the gay male presence seems to be nonexistent. I'm positive this is not the case, but they must be hanging out in different spaces. 

According to a gay guy I used to know, they are - but being female and therefore understandably not welcome in those spaces, I didn't enquire further.  

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RandomAce8701

Yeah, being vaguely LGBTQIA+ spectrum but not being able to identify as gay is somewhat tricky. :) I mean as a grey ace I'm plausibly the enemy - occasionally attracted to women (not bothered whether they are cis- or not), pan- as far as play goes, but worst of all some sexual fluidity... I've avoided LGBT+ events, even when they've bothered to include the +/Q (let alone A). I do find asking men for play awkward though, maybe some internalised homophobia, but I have played with men several times at rope events or where they were staff specialists. Also partly because of complexities/lack of clarity over what I want out of a personal connection (friendship with play benefits? non-sexual partnership?). And even more complicated because I'm not actually 100% sex repulsed (but repulsed enough to not allow a conventional relationship)... "Squashed hetero" rather than ace? That could be questioning, but equally it could be fluidity, and the *existence* of sexual fluidity is a threat to the mainstream gay community.

 

As for playing in private ... Fet posts suggest sexual coercion of rope bottoms / bunnies is pretty common. That also has gendered aspects, but I wouldn't risk it with a top of *any* gender, unless I'd known them for years...

 

As far as the mainstream/straight kink play party/munch scene goes ... I'm probably going to have to wait until I'm comfortable with the pandemic, which is probably at least 5 years. Although outdoor events might be a possibility if my immediate situation changes.

Edited by Matthew42
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RandomAce8701
5 hours ago, Notaradish said:

@Matthew42

That's a very long time to wait. What makes you say 5 years in particular?

Sorry, just my usual pessimism. Ignore me and continue with your kinky depravity. :)

Edited by Matthew42
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1 minute ago, Sky Tune Rein said:

5 years isn't unusual for me to open up to friends

I either never open up to you or you know 80% of my life's story within a day or so. 😂

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RandomAce8701
18 hours ago, Sky Tune Rein said:

5 years isn't unusual for me to open up to friends, let alone engage in kink play with anyone. I'm not worried about the coronavirus though.

Not what I meant. I just meant that it will be a long time before I'm prepared to socialise again. I consider the risk to be unacceptable - to myself, to my vulnerable relatives, and to people I don't know (with 100 deaths a day consistently since "freedom day").

 

Which unfortunately means I can't engage in kink in any form for the time being. But maybe it was just something I used to worry about that turned into a hobby.

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  • 1 month later...

Yes 

 

Hello! 

 

:D 

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13 hours ago, Sister Mercurial said:

Hello, @Reindeer!  

Hello yourself. 😉

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello! I had a question for the kink/specifically the bdsm community. I'm into to bdsm, specifically the bondage aspect, though much more in fantasy than in real life. 

I enjoy being dominate in the bedroom because I'm mostly seen as innocent and I love the power and control it gives me in uncomfortable circumstances.

I am also in an interracial relationship. (I'm white, my partner is black). This can make the little experimenting with bdsm... Uncomfortable. We were playing around with handcuffs in the store and when she put them on it was an immediate "Oh no. No. This is wrong." We settled for rope which didn't offend as much.

But does anyone know how to explore this with being sensitive to race issues. Especially with the slave/master aspect.

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RandomAce8701
23 hours ago, Demitone said:

Hello! I had a question for the kink/specifically the bdsm community. I'm into to bdsm, specifically the bondage aspect, though much more in fantasy than in real life. 

I enjoy being dominate in the bedroom because I'm mostly seen as innocent and I love the power and control it gives me in uncomfortable circumstances.

I am also in an interracial relationship. (I'm white, my partner is black). This can make the little experimenting with bdsm... Uncomfortable. We were playing around with handcuffs in the store and when she put them on it was an immediate "Oh no. No. This is wrong." We settled for rope which didn't offend as much.

But does anyone know how to explore this with being sensitive to race issues. Especially with the slave/master aspect.

I'm privileged (although also autistic and ace), but my 2p:

  • Do you understand the difference between dominance/submission (who's in charge, possibly a relationship i.e. lifestyle) and top/bottom or rigger/bunny (who's *doing* the thing)? Is your relationship D&S, or could it go that way? If not, how can you ritualise this so that it's clearly only in play? Is dominant bottom / submissive top a possibility (e.g. they are in charge, but you are tying them as they requested)?
  • Is this your limit or hers? Political limits should be respected - both yours and hers. I wouldn't dominate a woman or a black person (especially not lifestyle), but then I tend to be bottom (or possibly submissive) anyway so far.
  • Some people do reclaim this. Putting handcuffs on a black woman doesn't make you a cop and doesn't mean they're going to die in custody. After talking to age players, I no longer regard age play as offensive, though it's not my kink. In other words, while your consent matters, she's the expert here on what is and isn't racism.
  • When you say "slavery", do you mean as a strict 24x7 D&S relationship or do you mean short-term play?
  • Rope and handcuffs aren't the only options for restraint. Look into good kink suppliers e.g. Bondatrix. Also, if you are using rope, get to some online or in-person rope workshops and learn how to do it safely.

Hope somebody more relevant answers, sorry if I've mansplained/whitesplained too much here; it has come up as something I've worried about at least.

 

PS I would have said ask on the relevant Fetlife group but they're not as obvious as for other things and there's a big problem with fetishisation; one (BIPOC Kinksters) linked this, which seems to argue against D&S and for top/bottom play: https://africanarguments.org/2021/05/what-does-it-look-like-to-decolonise-bdsm/ ... I've never really been comfortable with D&S.

 

PPS Apologies for length. Autistic + nervous -> I would have written a shorter answer if I was less uncertain ... Hope you find what you need anyway.

Edited by Matthew42
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  • 4 weeks later...
The Butterfly Composer

Ok, this is a little unexpected, though I'm not entirely sure why. I suppose kink is like any other fantasy...and asexual people can have sex just as much as everyone else, and like it. Still, was a little surprised to see this thread (is that a common reaction? I feel a little bad).

 

So...um...hi?

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RandomAce8701
28 minutes ago, The Butterfly Composer said:

Ok, this is a little unexpected, though I'm not entirely sure why. I suppose kink is like any other fantasy...and asexual people can have sex just as much as everyone else, and like it. Still, was a little surprised to see this thread (is that a common reaction? I feel a little bad).

 

So...um...hi?

Welcome to the thread! 🎂

 

Asexuality is a complicated spectrum. So is kink, which can be entirely non-sexual or very much sexual or anything in between. Neither is anything to be ashamed of. Personally I'm repulsed by what most people would consider "sex" but I'm interested in other things, and kinky (mostly in a non-sexual way). I used to be ashamed of my kinks, but they're just a quirk of who I am, which has to be managed safely and consensually like everything else. Sometimes I think kink is a hobby. Sometimes I think it's a way to find a compromise for a mixed relationship, though I have my doubts about that strategy. Sometimes it's just good non-sexual fun. Sometimes it's self-exploration.

 

Anyway, welcome to AVEN and welcome to this thread.

 

PS Make sure you're up on definitions. I'm on the grey asexual spectrum because I'm *sometimes* attracted to people. I'm also partially sex repulsed, which is related to asexuality but it's not "asexual" as such. Sorry if this is obvious to you.

Edited by Matthew42
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The Butterfly Composer

I'm up on most lingo...Well, ace lingo, not BDSM stuff. But thank you for making sure. Always good to start out making sure everyone is on the same page.

 

So what is the difference between any other non sexual hobby and a kink?

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RandomAce8701
2 hours ago, The Butterfly Composer said:

I'm up on most lingo...Well, ace lingo, not BDSM stuff. But thank you for making sure. Always good to start out making sure everyone is on the same page.

 

So what is the difference between any other non sexual hobby and a kink?

Well first off D&S isn't a hobby really, it's a style of relationship. But let's call the rest (bondage, sadism and masochism, etc) "play".

 

Some of it is illegal? That's one difference - but also true of plenty of other hobbies e.g. Urbex.

 

Some of it involves close physical contact and some degree of trust? There are probably other hobbies I could name.

 

Making friends with people with a common interest ... again common with hobbies.

 

Arcane equipment? Definitely a hobby. Doing things with bodies? That one is much less clear I grant you ... maybe kink is a sport?

 

Play parties = places you travel to to gather with other kinksters and play in a relatively safe, relatively public/exhibitionist way? Again you could see analogies with other hobbies - and play parties are generally much cheaper than a lot of other hobbies, though you may need to bring your own equipment.

 

I don't think we can entirely rule out the sexual aspect. While many play parties don't allow sex, nudity is often tolerated, and some of the people present will enjoy it in different ways. Some couples go to play parties to play with their partner simply because there is better equipment there, and people to talk to, without expecting to play with anyone else. Also, some kink is non-sexual for me, but some kinks are more sexual, and some of my attitudes to kink are related to sexuality (i.e. planning or negotiating a scene or fantasy or kink porn could be arousing even though there's nothing resembling sex). Anyway, that doesn't necessarily make it not a hobby, especially if it's not the main focus.

 

IMHO going to kink play parties, munches, rope workshops, which tend to make up "the scene", could be seen as a hobby (though it may have a sexual aspect). However, kink relationships (D&S), and private play are more problematic, especially on the asexual spectrum, mainly because the idealised model of consent and negotiation may not be respected by people who are "a bit kinky" but basically vanilla, or because predators exist everywhere.

 

My 2 cents as a former kinkster. :)

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The Butterfly Composer
7 hours ago, Matthew42 said:

IMHO going to kink play parties, munches, rope workshops, which tend to make up "the scene", could be seen as a hobby (though it may have a sexual aspect). However, kink relationships (D&S), and private play are more problematic, especially on the asexual spectrum, mainly because the idealised model of consent and negotiation may not be respected by people who are "a bit kinky" but basically vanilla, or because predators exist everywhere.

I was following until the end here. Can you go through what these terms mean (you explained play parties above).

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Sister Mercurial

Munch = Kinky people meeting up in street clothes and a non-kinky situation (usually a pub or restaurant) to socialise and talk about their kink.  As far as I understand it (anyone who knows better want to clarify?), a workshop is where you learn techniques used in kink in order to practise it safely.  

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RandomAce8701
1 hour ago, The Butterfly Composer said:

I was following until the end here. Can you go through what these terms mean (you explained play parties above).

Vanilla = not kinky. Or at least, not part of the scene, not done their research. Worst case, have some vague ideas about things to do during sex, think kink is all about sex, and don't take consent and negotiation seriously. Hence my point; if I see kink as a compromise physical intimacy for mixed allo/ace relationships (especially mixed degrees of repulsion), playing on a date (private play as opposed to at a play party) is especially dangerous for grey-asexual spectrum ace kink bottoms such as myself (though not as risky as if I was the opposite gender).

 

Any other terms?

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The Butterfly Composer
30 minutes ago, Matthew42 said:

Vanilla = not kinky. Or at least, not part of the scene, not done their research. Worst case, have some vague ideas about things to do during sex, think kink is all about sex, and don't take consent and negotiation seriously. Hence my point; if I see kink as a compromise physical intimacy for mixed allo/ace relationships (especially mixed degrees of repulsion), playing on a date (private play as opposed to at a play party) is especially dangerous for grey-asexual spectrum ace kink bottoms such as myself (though not as risky as if I was the opposite gender).

 

Any other terms?

 

1 hour ago, Sister Mercurial said:

Munch = Kinky people meeting up in street clothes and a non-kinky situation (usually a pub or restaurant) to socialise and talk about their kink.  As far as I understand it (anyone who knows better want to clarify?), a workshop is where you learn techniques used in kink in order to practise it safely.  

Thanks.

 

Kink relationships (sounds self explanatory but go on) and private play (ditto).

 

I'm interested because 

A) the general idea is unknown to me beyond vague (extremely vague) pop culture stuff, and thus interesting to learn about

And

B) legally speaking, it's an area that UK fears to tread but has also come down heavily upon, and in somewhat questionable ways (mostly regarding consent and extreme sado masochism).

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RandomAce8701
49 minutes ago, The Butterfly Composer said:

Thanks.

 

Kink relationships (sounds self explanatory but go on) and private play (ditto).

 

I'm interested because 

A) the general idea is unknown to me beyond vague (extremely vague) pop culture stuff, and thus interesting to learn about

And

B) legally speaking, it's an area that UK fears to tread but has also come down heavily upon, and in somewhat questionable ways (mostly regarding consent and extreme sado masochism).

Okay, lots to cover here...

 

D&S: Ask somebody who knows, but I have opinions. :)

 

Many kinksters want "dominance and submission" style relationships. This involves one party consensually giving up control, potentially not just for a scene but accepting that the other party is "in charge" over their entire day to day life (24x7, total power exchange) - similar to traditional gender roles but agreed to rather than coerced into by society. I know many people have loving consensual relationships with their dominant, but I have avoided this, partly for political reasons. In extremes this can include punishment dynamics, high protocol (speak only when spoken to, dom controls who sub can talk to (!) ), play can include "consensual non-consent", etc. Other related terms include "slavery" and ageplay (big/little, DDLG).

 

Dominating or submitting for a short period, e.g. a scene, a session with a professional dominatrix, is really just a form of play with a bit less negotiation. What I've done has been strictly top/bottom play. I may even be accused of being a dominant bottom looking for a service top. There is detailed negotiation for the specific scene.

 

Anyway, I'm not an expert on D&S. Look it up. I've had concerns that 1) it interacts with gender, race and other power relationships in a way that I can't disentangle, 2) that in general I want any relationship to be reasonably egalitarian (and maybe that's just how I am; it doesn't have to be political), 3) in some extreme cases it may make it more difficult if a relationship becomes abusive, especially with e.g. high protocol and punishment issues; there is law about "coercive control" for a reason, and 4) Lack of experience.

 

Hopefully there's somebody here who can give more of a first hand account on D&S!

 

Legal: this sucks

 

Re legal, it's not just "extreme sadomasochism". Any injury beyond "trivial and trifling" potentially qualifies as ABH and therefore may be illegal regardless of consent. Which is sad because impact play is actually relatively safe. In practice not prosecuted very often, but expect this to increase after it was re-enforced in the Domestic Abuse Act. More likely to run into licensing problems in practice - finding somewhere to host a play party etc can be difficult. See the legal boards on Fet.

 

Some kinks are pretty much always dangerous (e.g. many forms of breathplay). Some kinks are dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, e.g. e-stim, rope. The forms of play that are illegal and those that are dangerous often aren't closely linked, although doing something illegal clearly increases your risk - not just of prosecution but also of having difficulties if you have to go to the authorities because the relationship becomes abusive or some other serious harm happens.

 

Private play (trigger warnings abuse/anxiety)

 

Spoiler

Re private play ... My point was just that I tend to be a bottom, i.e. the person receiving the technique - being tied up, hit, or whatever. And generally I find bondage makes a scene much more intense. I can relax in a sleep sack, or just focus on dealing with the pain when being flogged, I don't need to worry about anything else. At a play party I can do this relatively safely, since I can safeword and there are other people around. But if I was to date somebody, I'd expect to play in private, i.e. in my own or their home, at some point. This expresses trust, it's a way to have some physical intimacy - and I'm repulsed by most traditional forms of "sex", so it may be a compromise. But I can't go to play parties thanks to the pandemic; dating is safer. And I gather the modern expectation here is for sex on a third date. If I propose an alternative, such as being tied up and flogged, there is a significant risk of a major consent violation, especially if playing with a man but even in the other cases. If they're "vanilla", and in my age group, they may think they're doing me a favour. It's a much bigger risk for other genders, but autism (particularly issues with communication) and grey-asexual spectrum make it a risk for me too.

 

Sorry for writing such a long response. I didn't have time to write a shorter one. Hope others answer your questions too. Strongly recommend you do some reading.

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The Butterfly Composer

Cool. Thanks very much.

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RandomAce8701
1 hour ago, The Butterfly Composer said:

A) the general idea is unknown to me beyond vague (extremely vague) pop culture stuff, and thus interesting to learn about

As for what people actually do in kink ... do some reading. There's a huge range, D&S, bondage and sadomasochism covers most of it but certainly not all. Fetlife is a useful resource although there's a lot of porn and people are not always friendly (women get spam constantly). Many of the boards are great though for asking questions. Almost anything can be a kink really, especially if it involves other people, often some loss of control, and feels unusual.

 

Main things I've done are bondage (rope, sleep sacks, wrapping), impact play (flogging mostly, on shoulders or bottom). I hope to one day experience electrical play, breathplay is a bit of a kink in the sexual sense for me that I don't indulge because of safety issues, although there are "safer" ways to do it (hint: never do it solo!), but it's one of the main reasons I got into kink in the first place. I hope to top tickling one day. I've met lots of people into ageplay. I've seen body writing and wax as kinks. And so on. Partly it was a way of exploring and being more accepting of myself, putting to bed the nagging doubts that I'm broken. No I'm not, I just have some weird psychosexual quirks but I can manage them. And have fun with people who understand consent and limits, while making new friends. Then the pandemic happened. :(

 

One typical non-sexual kink ritual I used to do was encapsulation. Some of the play parties have staff who specialise in particular techniques. So I'd always go and get wrapped in tape or cling film, or strapped into a sleep sack. Both sleep sacks and wrapping have some interesting sensory input - pressure all over like a big hug, maybe this is an autistic thing. Surprisingly relaxing, though with wrapping I always eventually get too hot, so it's not for as long. Also, there's an interest in whether it's escapable. There's an exhibitionist aspect to all this - but I don't need to relate to a large group at once. And the person wrapping me is a staff member, I don't have any sort of relationship with him except that he's an authority figure, that there are lots of other people around, and that I have the beginnings of a friendship. While I am occasionally attracted to people, I'm not attracted to that particular person - except that they're pleasant and respectful and may one day be a friend. So it's not "sexual" for me.

 

Spoiler

However in the same room, couples are using similar equipment - often vac beds, which sadly I can't use - for much more sexual purposes, i.e. sticking partner in a vac bed and then teasing them with a vibrator. Which I'm more than a little tempted by - I'm not totally opposed to sexual kink, but I'm repulsed by *penetration*. There's a bunch of complexity there...

 

To summarise, when I did go to play parties, it was partly self-exploration/validation, partly being able to have physically intimate fun in a relatively safe environment with people who understand consent and limits, without the expectation of or demand for sex, partly making new friends.

 

Hope this message isn't too much detail.

Edited by Matthew42
Gave some more examples
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