Defining asexuality - a better definition?

[purplemutant]

This thread is one of those that make me really love AVEN: people seriously considering how they feel, how they define something, and what they've experienced, and trying to clearly state all that to other thread posters.

:cake: :cake: to everyone!

Yea this thread is pretty important. If we can't agree on what asexuality is; how are we supposed to explain to other people. Of course there will be people who will disagree. We just need to get most aces to agree on a definition.

[Guest 80814]

And most people just don't have sex with people thay aren't attracted to. Not all allosexuals are sex-obsessed like those people who think "I want to have sex, so I'll f*** the next person I meet". There are some people who don't take attraction much into account, but they aren't the majority at all, so please don't apply that case to everyone.

You're complaining about a point that wasn't even made.

[Guest]

Except that if there is an innate desire for partnered sex but no one is sexually attractive, there's a problem. So both have a role.

What's 'sexually attractive' though? People have sex for aaaaaall sorts of reasons. Finding someone attractive in a 'sexual' way (whatever the heck that even is as it's different from person to person - one might become sexually aroused by looking at that person, another may only become aroused by physical interaction with that person etc etc) is only one of them (and that experience - ''I find you hot I want to fuck you'' - is in my opinion no way what determines someones sexual orientation, some people never experience that, but are still homosexual (as an example) because they only desire partnered sex once in love, and are only romantically attracted to people of the same sex. Its that experience, the innate desire to connect with people of a certain gender/s that defines sexual orientation. Nothing to do with who you find attractive in a way that makes you want to fuck them. That's only an experience some people have, not all.

Sexual attraction = the desire to connect sexually with another person for sexual pleasure. regardless of whether or not one finds that person ''attractive'' to look at/regardless of whether or not one is made aroused by looking at that person.

You want to pick up a random in a bar for sex, the second you pick up a particular person and take them home and fuck them, or just do it in the loo at the bar, even if you don't find them aesthetically attractive (ie you just needed/wanted to fuck someone) you are still directing sexual attraction at them: the desire to connect with them (with another person, whoever the hell it is) sexually. If you didn't experience that, then you wouldn't have sex with them. No innate desire to connect sexually with that person, regardless of who they are or what they look like, then you are not experiencing sexual attraction toward that person (and on the flipside, if you find them uber-sexy/attractive/hot and don't desire to connect sexually with them, it's still not sexual attraction. That's just strong aesthetic and/or sensual attraction)

Desire to connect sexually (desire to fuck, relieve arousal), then sexual attraction. No desire to connect sexually, not sexual attraction.

People (in the ace community anyway) base way too much importance on this whole ''looking at someone and finding them attractive in a sexual way'' thing. Even if you look at them and experience arousal, if you don't have any desire to actually have sex with them, It's not sexual attraction. It's just someone's body (hormones) reacting naturally to the external stimuli (ie an asexual man becoming aroused by the sight of naked large breasts. No desire to have sex with the woman attached to them, just spontaneously becomes aroused by seeing large breasts naked and can't help that, as one example)

I suppose you can walk around with an innate desire for partnered sex (a desire inside oneself to fuck others for sexual pleasure) but if that desire is literally never, ever, ever directed at another person (ie no desire to connect sexually with anyone, despite having that urge inside you) then yeah, that person in my opinion would still fall on the ace spectrum if they wished to. As soon as the person innately desires partnered sex, and has sex with another person as a result of that innate desire (regardless of whether or not they think the person is remotely 'attractive') that's sexual attraction. They are desiring to connect with another person sexually and acting on that desire.

Sexual attraction: The innate desire to connect sexually with another person for sexual pleasure. Nothing to do with finding people attractive in a 'sexual way'

(and that's just my opinion, I understand that there are plenty who disagree with it)

(EDIT: and yeah, like some others here I hate the term 'sexual attraction' as it is so easily misunderstood and can be/is pretty much interpreted however the hell anyone wants to interpret it. Whereas ''the innate desire for partnered sex'' is a term much more easily understood. If it was up to me, the term 'sexual attraction' would be scrapped from the face of the earth so as to put and end once and for all to the confusion on AVEN over what asexuality is and is not.)

You aren't talking about sexual attraction. You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire. Is that so crazy, so absurd to think that sexual attraction and sexual desire may be 2 different things, just because some people don't understand it ?

And most people just don't have sex with people thay aren't attracted to. Not all allosexuals are sex-obsessed like those people who think "I want to have sex, so I'll f*** the next person I meet". There are some people who don't take attraction much into account, but they aren't the majority at all, so please don't apply that case to everyone.

There was a time where everybody agreed with this definition, which takes separation between sexual attraction and sexual desire into account, and which is in the Wiki now :

I am saying that the innate desire for partnered sex is what makes a sexual person sexual, and that the innate desire for partnered sex exists to some extent or another, at different periods of sexual persons life, regardless of whether or not ''attraction'' is present. It's the desire for partnered sex, and the direction of that desire, that determines sexual orientation. The attraction is secondary to the innate desire to seek partnered sexual contact with other people.

I never once applied one case to everyone, not sure where you got that from. I said that for some sexual people, they only have sex with people they are attracted to, others will have sex with people regardless of whether or not they are attracted to them, because its the desire for sex that drives them, some people only have sex with people they are romantically attracted to, regardless of whether or not they find their partner ''attractive in a sexual way'' ..There are many varying reasons that sexual people will seek partnered sex, the one thing they all have in common is that at some level, they innately desire partnered sex (which is what makes them 'sexual' as opposed to 'asexual' which means without any innate desire for partnered sex ever)

You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire

No I am not confusing anything (believe me, I am far from confused).

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, so I do not even wish to go against AVEN's definition of asexuality as such (ie an asexual is a person who has no innate desire for partnered sexual contact) I just want the definition at the top of the page clarified so people can actually understand it instead of hunting out random obscure definitions of sexual attraction and basing their asexuality around that. That's all I want. A definition that people can actually understand and that is crystal clear in what asexuality is and is not.

[Kalidas]

Except that if there is an innate desire for partnered sex but no one is sexually attractive, there's a problem. So both have a role.

What's 'sexually attractive' though? People have sex for aaaaaall sorts of reasons. Finding someone attractive in a 'sexual' way (whatever the heck that even is as it's different from person to person - one might become sexually aroused by looking at that person, another may only become aroused by physical interaction with that person etc etc) is only one of them (and that experience - ''I find you hot I want to fuck you'' - is in my opinion no way what determines someones sexual orientation, some people never experience that, but are still homosexual (as an example) because they only desire partnered sex once in love, and are only romantically attracted to people of the same sex. Its that experience, the innate desire to connect with people of a certain gender/s that defines sexual orientation. Nothing to do with who you find attractive in a way that makes you want to fuck them. That's only an experience some people have, not all.

Sexual attraction = the desire to connect sexually with another person for sexual pleasure. regardless of whether or not one finds that person ''attractive'' to look at/regardless of whether or not one is made aroused by looking at that person.

You want to pick up a random in a bar for sex, the second you pick up a particular person and take them home and fuck them, or just do it in the loo at the bar, even if you don't find them aesthetically attractive (ie you just needed/wanted to fuck someone) you are still directing sexual attraction at them: the desire to connect with them (with another person, whoever the hell it is) sexually. If you didn't experience that, then you wouldn't have sex with them. No innate desire to connect sexually with that person, regardless of who they are or what they look like, then you are not experiencing sexual attraction toward that person (and on the flipside, if you find them uber-sexy/attractive/hot and don't desire to connect sexually with them, it's still not sexual attraction. That's just strong aesthetic and/or sensual attraction)

Desire to connect sexually (desire to fuck, relieve arousal), then sexual attraction. No desire to connect sexually, not sexual attraction.

People (in the ace community anyway) base way too much importance on this whole ''looking at someone and finding them attractive in a sexual way'' thing. Even if you look at them and experience arousal, if you don't have any desire to actually have sex with them, It's not sexual attraction. It's just someone's body (hormones) reacting naturally to the external stimuli (ie an asexual man becoming aroused by the sight of naked large breasts. No desire to have sex with the woman attached to them, just spontaneously becomes aroused by seeing large breasts naked and can't help that, as one example)

I suppose you can walk around with an innate desire for partnered sex (a desire inside oneself to fuck others for sexual pleasure) but if that desire is literally never, ever, ever directed at another person (ie no desire to connect sexually with anyone, despite having that urge inside you) then yeah, that person in my opinion would still fall on the ace spectrum if they wished to. As soon as the person innately desires partnered sex, and has sex with another person as a result of that innate desire (regardless of whether or not they think the person is remotely 'attractive') that's sexual attraction. They are desiring to connect with another person sexually and acting on that desire.

Sexual attraction: The innate desire to connect sexually with another person for sexual pleasure. Nothing to do with finding people attractive in a 'sexual way'

(and that's just my opinion, I understand that there are plenty who disagree with it)

(EDIT: and yeah, like some others here I hate the term 'sexual attraction' as it is so easily misunderstood and can be/is pretty much interpreted however the hell anyone wants to interpret it. Whereas ''the innate desire for partnered sex'' is a term much more easily understood. If it was up to me, the term 'sexual attraction' would be scrapped from the face of the earth so as to put and end once and for all to the confusion on AVEN over what asexuality is and is not.)

You aren't talking about sexual attraction. You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire. Is that so crazy, so absurd to think that sexual attraction and sexual desire may be 2 different things, just because some people don't understand it ?

And most people just don't have sex with people thay aren't attracted to. Not all allosexuals are sex-obsessed like those people who think "I want to have sex, so I'll f*** the next person I meet". There are some people who don't take attraction much into account, but they aren't the majority at all, so please don't apply that case to everyone.

There was a time where everybody agreed with this definition, which takes separation between sexual attraction and sexual desire into account, and which is in the Wiki now :

I am saying that the innate desire for partnered sex is what makes a sexual person sexual, and that the innate desire for partnered sex exists to some extent or another, at different periods of sexual persons life, regardless of whether or not ''attraction'' is present. It's the desire for partnered sex, and the direction of that desire, that determines sexual orientation. The attraction is secondary to the innate desire to seek partnered sexual contact with other people.

I never once applied one case to everyone, not sure where you got that from. I said that for some sexual people, they only have sex with people they are attracted to, others will have sex with people regardless of whether or not they are attracted to them, because its the desire for sex that drives them, some people only have sex with people they are romantically attracted to, regardless of whether or not they find their partner ''attractive in a sexual way'' ..There are many varying reasons that sexual people will seek partnered sex, the one thing they all have in common is that at some level, they innately desire partnered sex (which is what makes them 'sexual' as opposed to 'asexual' which means without any innate desire for partnered sex ever)

You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire

No I am not confusing anything (believe me, I am far from confused).

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, so I do not even wish to go against AVEN's definition of asexuality as such (ie an asexual is a person who has no innate desire for partnered sexual contact) I just want the definition at the top of the page clarified so people can actually understand it instead of hunting out random obscure definitions of sexual attraction and basing their asexuality around that. That's all I want. A definition that people can actually understand and that is crystal clear in what asexuality is and is not.

And with what you said (as I mentioned) I feel people use those words interchangably, sometimes without even realising it. Which causes debates like this.

[purplemutant]

You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire

No I am not confusing anything (believe me, I am far from confused).

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, so I do not even wish to go against AVEN's definition of asexuality as such (ie an asexual is a person who has no innate desire for partnered sexual contact) I just want the definition at the top of the page clarified so people can actually understand it instead of hunting out random obscure definitions of sexual attraction and basing their asexuality around that. That's all I want. A definition that people can actually understand and that is crystal clear in what asexuality is and is not.

If sexual attraction and sexual desire are the same thing; why don't we just say sexual desire to avoid confusion? The definition I have been using is less confusing.

An asexual is someone who does not experience an innate desire for sex with other people.

Of course a desire based definition has it's own level of confusion. Some people seem to use desire as a synonym for want. A desire is much stronger than a want. So some people think that if you have ANY interest in sex then you aren't asexual. Lack of desire is what makes someone an ace; not the lack of interest.

[Kalidas]

You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire

No I am not confusing anything (believe me, I am far from confused).

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, so I do not even wish to go against AVEN's definition of asexuality as such (ie an asexual is a person who has no innate desire for partnered sexual contact) I just want the definition at the top of the page clarified so people can actually understand it instead of hunting out random obscure definitions of sexual attraction and basing their asexuality around that. That's all I want. A definition that people can actually understand and that is crystal clear in what asexuality is and is not.

If sexual attraction and sexual desire are the same thing; why don't we just say sexual desire to avoid confusion? The definition I have been using is less confusing.

An asexual is someone who does not experience an innate desire for sex with other people.

Of course a desire based definition has it's own level of confusion. Some people seem to use desire as a synonym for want. A desire is much stronger than a want. So some people think that if you have ANY interest in sex then you aren't asexual. Lack of desire is what makes someone an ace; not the lack of interest.

Axactly I want sex with my wife (for a number of reasons that actually dont have to do with sex). But desire? No sex is OKAY but it aint that special,how people get obsessed with it is beyond my understanding (DUH I am asexual)

And here is the thing the words mean almost the same thing DEPENDING ON THE CULTURE. So in America desire will cause that want=desire issue, but else where attraction=sexual desire is an issue.

To boil it down simply. If you are born with a craving for sex with people for the sake of having sex with people(as in were not regarding romance, partner pleasure etc etc) you are allosexual. What causes this is attraction. Sexual attraction is a PRETTY BIG sign that you are allosexual though. If you look at a person and think "boy I could have sex with them. That craving had to be there first.

[Guest]

You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire

No I am not confusing anything (believe me, I am far from confused).

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, so I do not even wish to go against AVEN's definition of asexuality as such (ie an asexual is a person who has no innate desire for partnered sexual contact) I just want the definition at the top of the page clarified so people can actually understand it instead of hunting out random obscure definitions of sexual attraction and basing their asexuality around that. That's all I want. A definition that people can actually understand and that is crystal clear in what asexuality is and is not.

If sexual attraction and sexual desire are the same thing; why don't we just say sexual desire to avoid confusion? The definition I have been using is less confusing.

An asexual is someone who does not experience an innate desire for sex with other people.

Of course a desire based definition has it's own level of confusion. Some people seem to use desire as a synonym for want. A desire is much stronger than a want. So some people think that if you have ANY interest in sex then you aren't asexual. Lack of desire is what makes someone an ace; not the lack of interest.

As far as I'm concerned "I want partnered sex because I enjoy it and it feels so good and it's a great bonding experience" (as a random example of a 'want' statement) is absolutely no different from how *many* sexual people feel about sex. Asexuality, in my opinion, is the lack of that experience, the "I want sex for sexual pleasure" .. Sure "I want sex because it makes my wife happy" "I want sex because we are trying for a baby" things like that are different because it's not the sex one wants primarily, it's the desired outcome (baby, happy wife, etc) that one desires. But "I want sex because I enjoy it and it's fun" to me, as I said, is absolutely no different from how many sexual people feel about sex. And yes, I agree that one can have an interest in sex without actually wanting to have sex with anyone. However an interest in sex isn't ''wanting partnered sex'' .. only wanting partnered sex is wanting partnered sex.

How many homosexual men do you meet who say "I want sex with women because I enjoy having sex with them, it feels good and it's fun" .. I personally haven't met any homosexual men like that. They may *have* sex with women, for varying reasons (to keep up appearances, got married before they knew their sexual orientation etc) but it's not a want for the sake of wanting sex itself.

And that's why you would word it " a lack of the innate desire to seek partnered sexual contact" or my preferred one "a lack of desire to connect with other people on a sexual level" .. All other factors are variable (ie thinking about sex, watching porn etc) but it's that desire to actually *connect* with another person on a sexual level, to actually seek out and have sex for the sake of partnered sexual pleasure (as opposed to wanting to experiment to see if they like it, wanting to fit in etc) that makes someone a sexual person. "I want sex" = sexual person. "I am a woman I want sex with men" = heterosexual person.

If you say "an asexual person has no innate desire to connect with others on a sexual level" then that, in my opinion, really gets down to the heart of it.

However, in saying all of that, I have spent waaaay too many hours in this thread, and others like it, explaining these same basic things repeatedly. No matter how many words I use (I've used thousands and thousands) no matter how clear I make my language etc etc, nothing can change the fact that some people *want* asexuality to include people who seek partnered sexual contact with others for sexual pleasure.

I can't change what other people think/want (though I do believe that it was confusion over AVENs current definition that lead to this conclusion about asexuality i.e. "hey I can want and seek partnered sex as long as I don't find anyone attractive") all I can do is state my own opinion. I feel I have done that enough now, in enough varied ways, that I shouldn't spend too much more time on AVEN doing it as it really does seem pointless (despite the fact that all I'm doing is actually supporting AVENs definition, not trying to change it, just trying to simplify the meaning of it) :)

[Kalidas]

You're confusing sexual attraction with sexual desire

No I am not confusing anything (believe me, I am far from confused).

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, so I do not even wish to go against AVEN's definition of asexuality as such (ie an asexual is a person who has no innate desire for partnered sexual contact) I just want the definition at the top of the page clarified so people can actually understand it instead of hunting out random obscure definitions of sexual attraction and basing their asexuality around that. That's all I want. A definition that people can actually understand and that is crystal clear in what asexuality is and is not.

If sexual attraction and sexual desire are the same thing; why don't we just say sexual desire to avoid confusion? The definition I have been using is less confusing.

An asexual is someone who does not experience an innate desire for sex with other people.

Of course a desire based definition has it's own level of confusion. Some people seem to use desire as a synonym for want. A desire is much stronger than a want. So some people think that if you have ANY interest in sex then you aren't asexual. Lack of desire is what makes someone an ace; not the lack of interest.

As far as I'm concerned "I want partnered sex because I enjoy it and it feels so good and it's a great bonding experience" (as a random example of a 'want' statement) is absolutely no different from how *many* sexual people feel about sex. Asexuality, in my opinion, is the lack of that experience, the "I want sex for sexual pleasure" .. Sure "I want sex because it makes my wife happy" "I want sex because we are trying for a baby" things like that are different because it's not the sex one wants primarily, it's the desired outcome (baby, happy wife, etc) that one desires. But "I want sex because I enjoy it and it's fun" to me, as I said, is absolutely no different from how many sexual people feel about sex. And yes, I agree that one can have an interest in sex without actually wanting to have sex with anyone. However an interest in sex isn't ''wanting partnered sex'' .. only wanting partnered sex is wanting partnered sex.

How many homosexual men do you meet who say "I want sex with women because I enjoy having sex with them, it feels good and it's fun" .. I personally haven't met any homosexual men like that. They may *have* sex with women, for varying reasons (to keep up appearances, got married before they knew their sexual orientation etc) but it's not a want for the sake of wanting sex itself.

And that's why you would word it " a lack of the innate desire to seek partnered sexual contact" or my preferred one "a lack of desire to connect with other people on a sexual level" .. All other factors are variable (ie thinking about sex, watching porn etc) but it's that desire to actually *connect* with another person on a sexual level, to actually seek out and have sex for the sake of partnered sexual pleasure (as opposed to wanting to experiment to see if they like it, wanting to fit in etc) that makes someone a sexual person. "I want sex" = sexual person. "I am a woman I want sex with men" = heterosexual person.

If you say "an asexual person has no innate desire to connect with others on a sexual level" then that, in my opinion, really gets down to the heart of it.

However, in saying all of that, I have spent waaaay too many hours in this thread, and others like it, explaining these same basic things repeatedly. No matter how many words I use (I've used thousands and thousands) no matter how clear I make my language etc etc, nothing can change the fact that some people *want* asexuality to include people who seek partnered sexual contact with others for sexual pleasure.

I can't change what other people think/want (though I do believe that it was confusion over AVENs current definition that lead to this conclusion about asexuality i.e. "hey I can want and seek partnered sex as long as I don't find anyone attractive") all I can do is state my own opinion. I feel I have done that enough now, in enough varied ways, that I shouldn't spend too much more time on AVEN doing it as it really does seem pointless (despite the fact that all I'm doing is actually supporting AVENs definition, not trying to change it, just trying to simplify the meaning of it) :)

the only problem with this is it may cause some people to think. "Uh oh I actually enjoyed sex! I'm not an asexual!" Which I don't think is true. Your genitalia will STILL respond to the stimulus (A straight man getting sexual favors from a man will still orgasm). Example a person may want to drink every once in a great while for the feeling. That doesn't make them an alcoholic, what makes one an alcoholic is that need to fulfill that desire for alcohol. BUT I think you are getting REALLY close to the right answer, just maybe the wording could cause some issues.

[Guest]

the only problem with this is it may cause some people to think. "Uh oh I actually enjoyed sex! I'm not an asexual!" Which I don't think is true. Your genitalia will STILL respond to the stimulus (A straight man getting sexual favors from a man will still orgasm). Example a person may want to drink every once in a great while for the feeling. That doesn't make them an alcoholic, what makes one an alcoholic is that need to fulfill that desire for alcohol. BUT I think you are getting REALLY close to the right answer, just maybe the wording could cause some issues

Well if they are confused over that aspect of my preferred definition or any desire-based definition (whether ''the desire to seek partnered sex'' somehow means ''had sex once and enjoyed it'' or whatever) they could just ask. That would be far preferable to the repeated ''am I experiencing sexual attraction?'' threads posted here weekly, which have multiple different answers in every individual thread depending on the different people that reply (as so many people have different and greatly varying opinions of what sexual attraction is based on what they have read etc)

Remember no matter what the definition is, people will always have questions.

[Guest]

I can't deny that it still baffles me that people actually confuse enjoyment and desire. That's two very clearly different things, to me.

That doesn't make them an alcoholic, what makes one an alcoholic is that need to fulfill that desire for alcohol.

And that is true even if the alcoholic doesn't enjoy the drink itself anymore, and just downs the bottle of vodka with loathing, only to sate the withdrawal symptoms. That's why this is a good example.

(...but it's problematic because it parallels being sexual with a disease/addiction. *sigh* )

[Kalidas]

the only problem with this is it may cause some people to think. "Uh oh I actually enjoyed sex! I'm not an asexual!" Which I don't think is true. Your genitalia will STILL respond to the stimulus (A straight man getting sexual favors from a man will still orgasm). Example a person may want to drink every once in a great while for the feeling. That doesn't make them an alcoholic, what makes one an alcoholic is that need to fulfill that desire for alcohol. BUT I think you are getting REALLY close to the right answer, just maybe the wording could cause some issues

Well if they are confused over that aspect of my preferred definition (whether ''the desire to seek partnered sex'' somehow means ''had sex once and enjoyed it'' or whatever) they could just ask. That would be far preferable to the repeated ''am I experiencing sexual attraction?'' threads posted here weekly, which have multiple different answers in every individual thread depending on the different people that reply (as so many people have different and greatly varying opinions of what sexual attraction is based on what they have read etc)

Remember no matter what the definition is, people will always have questions.

Super good point. No matter what I feel I fit the title so I honestly could care less haha. I can see that people are attractive but never to the point I want to have sex with them. I have no innate desire for sex with people, and the only time I even have sexual activities with another person is when in a close emotional relationship, and it's not about fulfilling this desire I don't possess but about spending time with said person in a very intimate way and well it makes them super crazy happy (not sure why sex feels like complicated masturbation to me).But I do understand the need for this conversation because some people may not work under the old or new definition if ti happens.

I can't deny that it still baffles me that people actually confuse enjoyment and desire. That's two very clearly different things, to me.

That doesn't make them an alcoholic, what makes one an alcoholic is that need to fulfill that desire for alcohol.

And that is true even if the alcoholic doesn't enjoy the drink itself anymore, and just downs the bottle of vodka with loathing, only to sate the withdrawal symptoms. That's why this is a good example.

(...but it's problematic because it parallels being sexual with a disease/addiction. *sigh* )

I know it makes the comparison, and I felt a little sick doing it. Here disclaimer "Allosexuals are not sexaholics!" better?

[Guest]

I know it makes the comparison, and I felt a little sick doing it. Here disclaimer "Allosexuals are not sexaholics!" better?

Sure! I wasn't annoyed at you, I was just preempting the complains that would be guaranteed to come had I just said "excellent comparison".

[Kalidas]

I know it makes the comparison, and I felt a little sick doing it. Here disclaimer "Allosexuals are not sexaholics!" better?

Sure! I wasn't annoyed at you, I was just preempting the complains that would be guaranteed to come had I just said "excellent comparison".

I find it funny we went from bitter arguing enemies to down right liking each other lol

But yes this whole thing is confusing. Esspecially since in sexuals attraction and desire go hand in hand, so they kinda became a synonym for one another. Which caused this very real problem of uh oh there are people with no desire for sex with humans? Um do you just find people to be ugly? "no some are pretty". Oh so you want to have sex with them then, "what?! uh ew no! Why would I want to do THAT?" But how can you find someone attractive and NOT want to have sex with them? "Because sex is boring?"

In the past it wasn't an issue all other orientations have been defined by positive qualities, now were trying to define ourselves by negation... definitions by negation are notoriously problematic. Hell the conservative feel that homosexuality must be defined by negation "You just haven't found the right man/woman yet", "no you bloody wanka I just don't want sex with them!". Imagine a group where there can NEVER be "the right person"... it's difficult.

[Guest]

I find i funny we went from bitter arguing enemies to down right liking each other lol

This is the kind of thread where such things happens more than once. ^_^

[Guest]

the only problem with this is it may cause some people to think. "Uh oh I actually enjoyed sex! I'm not an asexual!" Which I don't think is true. Your genitalia will STILL respond to the stimulus (A straight man getting sexual favors from a man will still orgasm).

Also as a random side-note, that really does depend on the person. For some people, if they don't desire sex in the situation they are in (men or women) no amount of stimulation can get them aroused. I have never once been in a sexual situation where I have become aroused or enjoyed the feelings of sex, no matter how attractive (and I mean I have been with some hot people, men and women) the person I am having sex with is. I just never desired or wanted the sex with them, so couldn't enjoy it in any physical way (I had sex with them because I was trying to teach myself to enjoy and want it, if that makes sense, wanted to be 'normal') .. Even if I was previously hormonally aroused going into the sex, I never once enjoyed the feelings of it nor even had any desire to enjoy the feelings of it (by that I mean, I never thought 'I wish I could be enjoying this') There was just so little interest in what was happening, on all levels.

Now that I have started experiencing actual full-blown 'sexual attraction' for the first time in 26 years (actually wanting sex/sexual activities with someone) everything is just like ''yeeeeeeesssssss I want the sexy time'' haha.. nothing to do with the persons 'attractiveness'' (even though yeah he's gorgeous!) it's just a very strong desire to connect sexually with that person, which is something I have neeeeeeeeever had before. My libido is the same (still masturbate the same amount etc) just now have a deep desire to experience arousal and the relieving of it with another person.

I find i funny we went from bitter arguing enemies to down right liking each other lol

_{Yep Mysticus has that effect on a lot of people :P}

EDIT: No idea what happened to the formatting in the post haha, maybe ze aliens got to it. Half of it has a blue bachgrouns and I can only make my comment about Mysticus size 12 or size 18, size 14 just does not exist for it lol.

[Kalidas]

the only problem with this is it may cause some people to think. "Uh oh I actually enjoyed sex! I'm not an asexual!" Which I don't think is true. Your genitalia will STILL respond to the stimulus (A straight man getting sexual favors from a man will still orgasm).

Also that really does depend on the person. For some people, if they don't desire sex in the situation they are in (men or women) no amount of stimulation can get them aroused. I have never once been in a sexual situation where I have become aroused or enjoyed the feelings of sex, no matter how attractive (and I mean I have been with some hot people, men and women) the person I am having sex with is. I just never desired or wanted the sex with them, so couldn't enjoy it in any physical way (I had sex with them because I was trying to teach myself to enjoy and want it, if that makes sense, wanted to be 'normal') .. Even if I was previously hormonally aroused going into the sex, I never once enjoyed the feelings of it nor even had any desire to enjoy the feelings of it (by that I mean, I never thought 'I wish I could be enjoying this') There was just so little interest in what was happening, on all levels.

Now that I have started experiencing actual full-blown 'sexual attraction' for the first time in 26 years (actually wanting sex someone) everything is just like ''yeeeeeeesssssss I want the sexy time'' haha.. nothing to do with the persons 'attractiveness'' (even though yeah he's hot as haha) it's just a very strong desire to connect sexually with that person, which is something I have neeeeeeeeever had before. My libido is the same (still masturbate the same amount etc) just now have a deep desire to experience arousal and the relieving of it with another person.

I find i funny we went from bitter arguing enemies to down right liking each other lol

_{Yep Mysticus has that effect on a lot of people :P}

and that is totally fine. For me I think my ability to even feel the biological pleasure is entirely tied to romance,and love Which is why there have been times that I could not get aroused. I had an ex and we weren't together very long and we were trying sexy things.

Well she tried to give me a blowjob. I say TRIED because I could NOT get an erection. Nope wouldn't work. This is even the case with my wife whom I love. If I am currently not aroused it is a no go for sexy times. Hell there are times where I lose erection mid sex or can't orgasm because I'm not in the right mental spot. Maybe we fought earlier that day and I'ms till thinking on that anger.

I think most people with this innate desire could get over these issues, but not us. Gawd don't you almost feel jealous at times? Like everyone is having this super fun party and nature said "Nope you were not invited"

[Guest]

Gawd don't you almost feel jealous at times? Like everyone is having this super fun party and nature said "Nope you were not invited"

Yeah I have always used the party metaphor, except I say ''my genitals just refuse to come to the party even if the rest of my body is stuck there and can't leave'' .. it's like ''God could you not just act a tiny bit interested to help this be at least mildly bearable for both of us?!'' and they're like ''no way man, not gonna happen''

Weirdly though even now with experiencing the desire to connect sexually with another person, I still have absolutely noooooooooooooooo desire to have my genitals themselves (clitoris, vagina) actually stimulated in any way by the person I want sex with (I'm not grossed out by the idea or anything, I just literally have no interest in it) so in a way my genitalia (ew gross word lol) still have no interest in the party, even though the rest of my body is now uber-into it and does not want to leave :P

[Kalidas]

Gawd don't you almost feel jealous at times? Like everyone is having this super fun party and nature said "Nope you were not invited"

Yeah I have always used the party metaphor, except I say ''my genitals just refuse to come to the party even if the rest of my body is stuck there and can't leave'' .. it's like ''God could you not just act a tiny bit interested to help this be at least mildly bearable for both of us?!'' and they're like ''no way man, not gonna happen''

Weirdly though even now with experiencing the desire to connect sexually with another person, I still have absolutely noooooooooooooooo desire to have my genitals themselves (clitoris, vagina) actually stimulated in any way by the person I want sex with (I'm not grossed out by the idea or anything, I just literally have no interest in it) so in a way my genitalia (ew gross word lol) still have no interest in the party, even though the rest of my body is now uber-into it and does not want to leave :P

Wow and here I was feeling bad for myself. You got it pretty bad hun. I couldn't imagine the desire and not be able to fulfill it. Thats even worse then being a normal every day asexual. I mean at least we don't have a desire not being fed. You have a desire and can't feed it.

Is it with a person? As in is masturbaion with a toy something you can get on board with?

... I think were getting off topic here... well I'AM getting off topic here :D

[Guest]

Yep Mysticus has that effect on a lot of people :P

Awww. Thanks. :D

EDIT: No idea what happened to the formatting in the post haha, maybe ze aliens got to it. Half of it has a blue bachgrouns and I can only make my comment about Mysticus size 12 or size 18, size 14 just does not exist for it lol.

Hehe. Formatting on AVEN... or, as some people call it, Ye Darke And Moste Obscure Arts. :lol:

Gawd don't you almost feel jealous at times? Like everyone is having this super fun party and nature said "Nope you were not invited"

Yeah I have always used the party metaphor, except I say ''my genitals just refuse to come to the party even if the rest of my body is stuck there and can't leave'' .. it's like ''God could you not just act a tiny bit interested to help this be at least mildly bearable for both of us?!'' and they're like ''no way man, not gonna happen''

Can't say I ever felt that... But what I do know is the feeling of being jealous of not being invited to the "I have a vagina" party. :( I've often wondered how much my asexuality and my gender issues/genital dysphoria are connected. I'm sure the connection and causality are not zero, at least.

[Kalidas]

Yep Mysticus has that effect on a lot of people :P

Awww. Thanks. :D

EDIT: No idea what happened to the formatting in the post haha, maybe ze aliens got to it. Half of it has a blue bachgrouns and I can only make my comment about Mysticus size 12 or size 18, size 14 just does not exist for it lol.

Hehe. Formatting on AVEN... or, as some people call it, Ye Darke And Moste Obscure Arts. :lol:

Gawd don't you almost feel jealous at times? Like everyone is having this super fun party and nature said "Nope you were not invited"

Yeah I have always used the party metaphor, except I say ''my genitals just refuse to come to the party even if the rest of my body is stuck there and can't leave'' .. it's like ''God could you not just act a tiny bit interested to help this be at least mildly bearable for both of us?!'' and they're like ''no way man, not gonna happen''

Can't say I ever felt that... But what I do know is the feeling of being jealous of not being invited to the "I have a vagina" party. :( I've often wondered how much my asexuality and my gender issues/genital dysphoria are connected. I'm sure the connection and causality are not zero, at least.

Oh man no offense women but vaginas sound like too much work and such a pain in the ass. Periods, pregnancy, sitting down to pee. sorry I am a cis man I bet women look at penises and wonder what the big deal is.

[Guest]

Wow and here I was feeling bad for myself. You got it pretty bad hun. I couldn't imagine the desire and not be able to fulfill it. Thats even worse then being a normal every day asexual. I mean at least we don't have a desire not being fed. You have a desire and can't feed it.

Is it with a person? As in is masturbaion with a toy something you can get on board with?

... I think were getting off topic here... well I'AM getting off topic here :D

oooh no, there are.. ahem.. how to put it.. other ways to fulfill sexual desires, with the person.. that don't involve.. ahem.. vagina and/or clitoris.. and I much prefer said ways

.. no toys though, not near vagina anyway. ahem.

sorry I am a cis man I bet women look at penises and wonder what the big deal is.

Always wished I had a penis, they seem so much less effort than vaginas other than having to hide erections lol

[Kalidas]

Wow and here I was feeling bad for myself. You got it pretty bad hun. I couldn't imagine the desire and not be able to fulfill it. Thats even worse then being a normal every day asexual. I mean at least we don't have a desire not being fed. You have a desire and can't feed it.

Is it with a person? As in is masturbaion with a toy something you can get on board with?

... I think were getting off topic here... well I'AM getting off topic here :D

oooh no, there are.. ahem.. how to put it.. other ways to fulfill sexual desires, with the person.. that don't involve.. ahem.. vagina and/or clitoris.. and I much prefer said ways

.. no toys though, not near vagina anyway. ahem.

I know about foreplay lol

I was curious cause I found this site for interactive sex toys. That I feel can help a lot of people with their sexual problems.

[Guest]

I was curious cause I found this site for interactive sex toys. That I feel can help a lot of people with their sexual problems.

Interactive sex toys, that's interesting haha. Yeah I'm not a sex-toy person myself though I can see how that might be helpful for people with issues like that.

I don't personally see me not having any enjoyment of genital stimulation as a 'sexual problem' or anything though.. So many other ways to have fun

[Kalidas]

I was curious cause I found this site for interactive sex toys. That I feel can help a lot of people with their sexual problems.

Interactive sex toys, that's interesting haha. Yeah I'm not a sex-toy person myself though I can see how that might be helpful for people with issues like that.

I don't personally see me not having any enjoyment of genital stimulation as a 'sexual problem' or anything though.. So many other ways to have fun

I think I will start a thread about in the asexual relationships thread. Get the word out to people struggling

Nope no problem at all. We all have our issues and such. But you find ways around it and seem to be perfectly able to enjoy life and even have a happy healthy sex life so hey more power to you!

[Rising Sun]

I merely seek a more easily understood and less open-to -misinterpretation definition of asexuality. AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for partnered sex, (...)

Not just that, if we use the current Wiki's definition of sexual attraction (which I find excellent).

I find i funny we went from bitter arguing enemies to down right liking each other lol

This is the kind of thread where such things happens more than once. ^_^

AVEN : peace and love

All other forums : trolls and locked :lol:

EDIT: No idea what happened to the formatting in the post haha, maybe ze aliens got to it. Half of it has a blue bachgrouns and I can only make my comment about Mysticus size 12 or size 18, size 14 just does not exist for it lol.

Deactivate WYSIWYG mode and correct font size manually ;)

Can't say I ever felt that... But what I do know is the feeling of being jealous of not being invited to the "I have a vagina" party. :( I've often wondered how much my asexuality and my gender issues/genital dysphoria are connected. I'm sure the connection and causality are not zero, at least.

I often wondered the same about myself.

[Guest]

sorry I am a cis man I bet women look at penises and wonder what the big deal is.

Always wished I had a penis, they seem so much less effort than vaginas other than having to hide erections lol

Same

[purplemutant]

As far as I'm concerned "I want partnered sex because I enjoy it and it feels so good and it's a great bonding experience" (as a random example of a 'want' statement) is absolutely no different from how *many* sexual people feel about sex. Asexuality, in my opinion, is the lack of that experience,

It would be nice if an allosexual chimed in on this issue. But it's my understanding that for an allosexual it's not just a simple want. They feel like they have to have sex. If I am not mistaken some people even see sex as a human necessity. The alcohol analogy is apt. Having a beer because you enjoy the taste and like the buzz isn't the same as HAVING to have a beer because you are an alcoholic. That's not to say that allosexuals are sex addicts. But sexual desire is a powerful urge that demands to be fulfilled; as far as I know, since I don't have that urge. So simply wanting to have sex for the sake of pleasure isn't the same as feeling like you need to have sex. I think a simple way to figure out if you are ace is this. Can you go for the rest of your life without sex and not feel like you are missing anything? If yes, then you are Asexual. If no, then you are allosexual. If we define an Asexual as anyone who has any interest in sex for the sake of sex; then we end up excluding people who shouldn't be. How would those sorts of people be classified? Someone who doesn't feel a need to have sex, clearly isn't like most people. So they aren't allosexual. But labels like grey and demi aren't really suitable. It's my understanding that grey and demi are for people who DO experience some amount of need for sex. So someone who never feels the need to have sex wouldn't be grey or demi. So if they aren't an ace due to an interest in sex, then what are they?

I classify my self as Asexual due to the fact that I never feel the need to have sex with other people. But just because I never feel a need to do it, doesn't mean I can't do it and have fun while doing it.

We can go back and forth on this issue and not get anywhere. We just end up pissing each other off which does no good. I identify as Asexual and for once in my life my sexuality finally makes sense to me. If anyone else disagrees with my use of the label; there isn't much I can do about that. With any orientation label you will get people who disagree with someone's use of the label.

That said; I am glad you are back on the forum. It's good to have a diversity of opinions.

sorry I am a cis man I bet women look at penises and wonder what the big deal is.

Always wished I had a penis, they seem so much less effort than vaginas other than having to hide erections lol

Same

From what I gather the issue isn't really the vagina. It's the other bits that typically go along with a vagina. At some point if I can afford it I will probably get sex reassignment surgery (SRS). That would give me a vagina, clit, labia ETC without periods or pregnancy issues. Although a surgically constructed vagina would be more effort than a penis. It has a tendency to want to collapse. So you have to use dilators (or have sex) regularly to keep it open. Given my fondness for masturbation I shouldn't have a problem in that department. Of course it takes a while for everything to heal up. So at first it will be all pain and no pleasure.

The downside to SRS is that the surgery can be pretty expensive and the surgeon I was thinking of going to doesn't take my insurance. Where as other people get their vaginas for free.

[Kalidas]

As far as I'm concerned "I want partnered sex because I enjoy it and it feels so good and it's a great bonding experience" (as a random example of a 'want' statement) is absolutely no different from how *many* sexual people feel about sex. Asexuality, in my opinion, is the lack of that experience,

It would be nice if an allosexual chimed in on this issue. But it's my understanding that for an allosexual it's not just a simple want. They feel like they have to have sex. If I am not mistaken some people even see sex as a human necessity. The alcohol analogy is apt. Having a beer because you enjoy the taste and like the buzz isn't the same as HAVING to have a beer because you are an alcoholic. That's not to say that allosexuals are sex addicts. But sexual desire is a powerful urge that demands to be fulfilled; as far as I know, since I don't have that urge. So simply wanting to have sex for the sake of pleasure isn't the same as feeling like you need to have sex. I think a simple way to figure out if you are ace is this. Can you go for the rest of your life without sex and not feel like you are missing anything? If yes, then you are Asexual. If no, then you are allosexual. If we define an Asexual as anyone who has any interest in sex for the sake of sex; then we end up excluding people who shouldn't be. How would those sorts of people be classified? Someone who doesn't feel a need to have sex, clearly isn't like most people. So they aren't allosexual. But labels like grey and demi aren't really suitable. It's my understanding that grey and demi are for people who DO experience some amount of need for sex. So someone who never feels the need to have sex wouldn't be grey or demi. So if they aren't an ace due to an interest in sex, then what are they?

I classify my self as Asexual due to the fact that I never feel the need to have sex with other people. But just because I never feel a need to do it, doesn't mean I can't do it and have fun while doing it.

We can go back and forth on this issue and not get anywhere. We just end up pissing each other off which does no good. I identify as Asexual and for once in my life my sexuality finally makes sense to me. If anyone else disagrees with my use of the label; there isn't much I can do about that. With any orientation label you will get people who disagree with someone's use of the label.

That said; I am glad you are back on the forum. It's good to have a diversity of opinions.

To me sex still feels good "orgasms are nice" thier just not THAT good.I think this lack of sexual desire/attraction is what causes us aces to feel like something is missing which makes sex for us never as good for sexuals. Its like making a puzzle, sure we can get the general picture, but with the dew missing pieces it will never be complete.

[purplemutant]

Can't say I ever felt that... But what I do know is the feeling of being jealous of not being invited to the "I have a vagina" party. :( I've often wondered how much my asexuality and my gender issues/genital dysphoria are connected. I'm sure the connection and causality are not zero, at least.

I wonder the same thing. If I had a body/genitals that I were 100% comfortable with; would I experience sexual desire? Being Autistic adds another layer on top of it. So I don't know. But if any rich person wants to play for expensive surgeries so we can find out; that would be sweet. :)

[Kalidas]

sorry I am a cis man I bet women look at penises and wonder what the big deal is.

Always wished I had a penis, they seem so much less effort than vaginas other than having to hide erections lol

Same

From what I gather the issue isn't really the vagina. It's the other bits that typically go along with a vagina. At some point if I can afford it I will probably get sex reassignment surgery (SRS). That would give me a vagina, clit, labia ETC without periods or pregnancy issues. Although a surgically constructed vagina would be more effort than a penis. It has a tendency to want to collapse. So you have to use dilators (or have sex) regularly to keep it open. Given my fondness for masturbation I shouldn't have a problem in that department. Of course it takes a while for everything to heal up. So at first it will be all pain and no pleasure.

The downside to SRS is that the surgery can be pretty expensive and the surgeon I was thinking of going to doesn't take my insurance. Where as other people get their vaginas for free.

WOO YOU GO GIRL!

lol "get their vaginas for free" my new favorite quote.