Everyday Feminism post

[ButtCountyDanceParty]

Everyday Feminism posted an article speaking with asexual activists. The visibility is awesome, but the Facebook comments are certainly a rude awakening. (I'm saying that with the post having been up for less than an hour. We'll see how things look as the day unfolds.)



2015 Edit - For future reference:

How Does Asexual Dating Work?

June 9, 2014 by Wiley Reading

Asexuality is just now coming onto the horizon as an identity.
In the last ten years, there has been a growing awareness that some people don’t want or need sex to live happy and fulfilled lives. However, something that still confuses people is how asexual people navigate dating!
So, in order to demystify this concept for people, I spoke with two asexual activists in order to try to better understand dating in the asexual community.
The first person I interviewed was Gaia Steinberg, 24, from Israel. Gaia has identified as asexual since age 16. She’s an activist in the feminist, sex-positive, and asexual communities.
I also spoke with David Jay, founder of asexuality.org. He has been in a leader and activist in asexual community for ten years, was active in campaigns to take asexuality out of the DSM, and was featured in the documentary (A)sexual.
Asexual people are not a monolith, but I asked Gaia and David to tell me about their own experiences with the community as a whole and their own personal understanding of dating while asexual.
Remember that no one person sees dating or sexuality exactly the same way as another, but I hope that this serves as a jumping off point for giving you some insight into dating while asexual.

What Is Asexual Dating?
Dating is about “getting to know people.”
It isn’t always romantic and doesn’t always have to have romantic elements. There’s no need to differentiate between people who are interesting as friends and people who are interesting as dating partners.
Sometimes romance becomes a part of an asexual dating relationship, and sometimes it doesn’t.
For example, Gaia personally doesn’t have a binary between romantic and nonromantic relationships.
David’s relationships sometimes look like dating sometimes, but not always. Intimate relationships are incredibly important to him, romantic relationships less so. The traditional dinner-and-a-movie trope feels false to him; it feels like it’s based on metaphors that don’t describe his personal experience of intimacy.
Dating as a social institution can seem very flawed to asexuals. It’s specifically flawed in ways that make it difficult for asexual people to engage in.
David rejects that there’s only one kind of relationship that counts, and that there’s a particular course that a relationship must take. He doesn’t feel that it’s wise or healthy to enter into a relationship with a preconceived idea of how that relationship might go. It’s better to see how you connect, how you can interact with each other.
David thinks that there’s something wrong with how we talk and think about intimate relationships. He thinks considering people single if they don’t have a certain kind of relationship is hurtful.
He believes that dating teaches us that there is a particular kind of intimacy that counts –that will be celebrated by friends, family, and society. And he thinks that hierarchy of intimate relationships is limiting.

What Do Sexual People Get Wrong About Asexuality and Dating?
Asexuality is something that is currently discriminated against or thought of as weird or wrong. Asexual people are at risk of violence — physical and emotional — if they reveal their asexuality to someone they don’t know.
Many asexual people choose to wait a little while until they trust the person they are seeing before coming out. This is not trickery; it’s waiting to reveal a marginalized identity until trust has been established.
Furthermore, many asexual people feel very private about their asexuality, so it may not be something they’re comfortable talking about right away.
Most people ask “How do asexual people date?” when they mean “How do asexual people form intimate relationships?”
Sexual people often equate dating and intimacy.
Sometimes people assume asexual people don’t form intimate relationships. This is very wrong, and a limiting perspective, David believes. “Intimacy is a much bigger and more beautiful thing than this box that you put it in.”

How Intersectional Is the Asexual Community?
David’s asexual identity interacts heavily with his gender, class, and racial identities because of the sexual expectations of those identities. The set of associations for a white guy, for instance, heavily influence how he is perceived, what scripts he received on how his sexuality should work, and so on.
When he is doing visibility work, it’s easier for him to present a “queer” topic — asexuality — to a mainstream audience because he’s seen as a nonthreatening “everyman.”
However, he is conscious that his position as a figurehead of asexuality can give the impression that asexuality is a “white” identity and that he might be alienating asexual people of color.
Sexuality is a discourse about power.
To claim sexuality is to claim a certain kind of power. To claim sexuality or not claim sexuality is to become subject to a set of social enforcements that is often racialized.
David’s partner says it is very different for her to claim asexuality as an Asian-American woman because Asian-American women are often desexualized. It’s complicated for her to step away from sexuality while simultaneously claiming agency that comes from sexuality.
It’s very different from David, who is breaking a different set of assumptions regarding agency.
What it means for someone to think of themselves as asexual is very different for people of different socioeconomic, racial, and ethnic groups – especially those that are already marginalized
Much of the language of the asexual community is geared toward people “like me,” says David, and the community has continued on a trend of racial homogeneity.
As the community moves from online to offline organizing, he has seen an upward trend in ethnic and racial diversity, which he suspects is related to the expansion of options for diverse spaces and diverse ways of participating in the community.
As a leading activist, David and fellow advocates are trying proactively to address this issue as a community, but whiteness is very entrenched still in the way asexual identity is talked about.

What Do Sexual People Need to Know About Asexual People?
It’s not an asexual person’s responsibility to come out until asexuality is widely accepted. People do not have a right to know if someone is asexual.
When people are seeing each other, the sexuality of the relationship doesn’t have to be an even split between what the two people want. It’s all about the individual people and what makes them most comfortable. There’s no sexuality measure you have to fill.
In the case of a sexual person being attracted to an asexual person, the sexual person should not assume that because someone is asexual that they are not attracted to you. The attraction may not be sexual; it may take a different form and involve different activities, but it can still be important and powerful to explore.
Many people, even if they don’t have romantic or sexual attraction, want to be in relationships with people they think are cool and find creative ways of doing that.
Don’t discount asexual relationships because they probably won’t involve sex.
Pro tip: Flirt with asexual people by asking them how they define intimacy.
Asexual people have had to “queer” relationships, so relationships with asexual people involve a lot of changing and playing with relationship ideas and that process can be fun.
It’s helpful to take the consent process we generally think of as applying to sex and sexual activities and apply it to a larger circle called touch. The discussions of what touch each person wants and conversations around that can be much more interesting than the conversation on whether sex will happen.
And finally, David emphasizes that everyone’s experience of intimacy is bigger and broader than dating, and this is especially true of asexual people.
It’s important to give asexual people a place to celebrate and talk about all their important relationships, not just sexual ones.
Sexual people need to treat those kinds of intimacy as if they are as interesting and exciting as romantic/sexual intimacy because they are!


Wiley Reading is a Contributing Writer at Everyday Feminism. Wiley is a New Jersey-born artist, writer, environmentalist, and social justice advocate located in Burlington, VT. He works as a community health worker for the Greater Burlington YMCA, and writes for Disrupting Dinner Parties, a small collective feminist blog. In his free time, Wiley draws bugs and old buildings, loves every show on the Food Network, makes creative (read: pulled from the recycling) toys for his bunnies, and tipsily reminds every person in every bar that New Jersey is the best state. Follow him on Twitter @wreadinggo.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ithaca

[eched]

One of the posts on the facebook page says that she's asexual and a lot of people are asexual as it's caused by a lot of medications. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! UGH!!!

[littleheartsofjoy]

I love this! Thank you for sharing. I'm glad to hear that DJ is very aware and conscious of how asexuality is and can be viewed when it comes to different groups of people (race, gender, and class differences).

[Frigid Pink]

I like what David Jay says about the "single" label. I don't consider myself "single" as long as I have friends! I much prefer to refer to myself as "un-partnered" when I'm not in a romantic relationship with someone.

[Morty]

I've been looking for an article like this one to share with people for a long time.

[Sally]

I think of myself as a member of a group of friends and acquaintances in the community, so I don't feel single.

Comments are so often horrible. I wish I didn't read them but they're usually right there under the article and how can you look away...

[Nameless123]

To me the word "single" implies that "coupled" is somehow the default state of being for people and that when you're single and have no problem with that something's wrong with you. It also seems to me that being single is somehow something everyone must at all times be fervently trying to change, like you're automatically always on the hunt for that significant other without which your entire life is meaningless.

[eched]

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/06/dating-while-asexual/?utm_content=buffer9e08c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I think this could be pretty hard to understand for a none ace, but it's still cool.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ithaca
merged with original thread on same blog post

[Guest]

So OK, my biggest issue with the article was the whole dating and romance are totally separate thing... because, no. Sex and dating, sure. But romantic feelings and dating are pretty intertwined, and I don't see why that has anything to do with asexuality. Hanging with your friends is simply not "dating".

[eched]

Ya, to be honest it felt like it was talking about if an aromantic wanted to date. The thing for sure could have been more clear.

[Frigid Pink]

I agree that it definitely sounds like aromanticism or demiromanticism. As someone who identifies as "demi-romantic," I don't refer to any interaction with someone as a "date" unless I already have romantic feelings for them. Otherwise, we're "hanging out" in a friendly platonic context.

I do appreciate that they mention the article is only about two individuals who identify as asexual and not about asexuals as a whole, however, it may still be interpreted that way by the masses.

I actually really dislike (A)sexual (the documentary) and don't generally identify with DJ's view of relationships (seems polyamorous). I do agree with his view on "single" and personally use "un-partnered" when I don't have a romantic partner. I don't consider myself "single" as long as I have friends and close family relationships. As far as "hierarchies" go, I do think we have varying levels of closeness with different people and, therefore, some of our relationships may be more meaningful to us than others (regardless of whether they're friendly/familial/romantic/etc.) and I think that's absolutely okay.

Also, this article is all over the place, and not really about "dating" (or asexuality) as much as it's about a mishmash of social/political/cultural activism/movements. It's not a very well-written article.

I really like this: "When people are seeing each other, the sexuality of the relationship doesn’t have to be an even split between what the two people want. It’s all about the individual people and what makes them most comfortable."

[Salmacis]

I follow Everyday Feminism on Facebook, and they have recently been posting a fair bit about asexuality and Ace awareness - which is GREAT, though I do agree with above comments. (Having said that, EF are - by definition - a progressive community, and so I'm sure their admins wouldn't object to constructive feedback on the articles they post).

[eched]

To be honest, I'm kind of now a bit miffed at Everyday Feminism and am wondering just how progressive they are after they posted this: http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/12/3-ways-the-gay-rights-agenda-has-perpetuated-oppression/?utm_content=buffer8512e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I stopped fallowing their page when they posted that. Like, if you don't like marriage fine, but please don't tell the gay community they aren't allowed to marry because you don't like it. Ugh, I still can't believe they wrote this.

[insomniacat]

What I hate about the article you posted, eched, is the fact that they make it sound like gay people have control over what the government does and that they shouldn't accept much-needed funding if it comes from questionable sources. Like "Yes, of course the 'gay agenda' controls the US government, and they're being selfish for not sharing!!" Which absolutely makes no sense.

Besides, gay-rights laws are still helping queer people in the US, even if they're not helping every queer person. This article makes me feel like the writer wants gay people to surrender the rights they've gained because other people still suffer from inequality - which is ridiculous and selfish in its own way. I agree that the base problems of poverty and violence need to be addressed, and that poor queer people need help, but you can't blame people who want certain things to be happy for pursuing those things for themselves.

[eched]

Ya, that's how I felt exactly, as did most people that read the thing. It for sure has a LOT of problems in it.

[Certified Cake Decorator]

Is anyone else super jelly that David Jay has an ace partner?

I can't be the only one...

Super jelly

[littlepersonparadox]

Personally I didn't like the (A)sexuality documentary either. However the relationships that David describes it is fine. It's just not the relationship structure everyone adheres to. Polyamory is far as I can tell perfectly fine. I'm a monogamous person but, I don't see any conflict with it. And as for David's new (I think monogamous) partner being ace that's amazing for him!

As for getting back on topic the article was poorly written and the writer of the secondary posted article seemed resentful.

[Frigid Pink]

Is anyone else super jelly that David Jay has an ace partner?

I can't be the only one...

Super jelly

No, I'm not jealous. I'm happy for him! :)

Personally I didn't like the (A)sexuality documentary either. However the relationships that David describes it is fine. It's just not the relationship structure everyone adheres to. Polyamory is far as I can tell perfectly fine. I'm a monogamous person but, I don't see any conflict with it. And as for David's new (I think monogamous) partner being ace that's amazing for him!

As for getting back on topic the article was poorly written and the writer of the secondary posted article seemed resentful.

I think polyamory is okay.

I don't think polyamory is representative of asexual relationships.