Long Term r/s, problems compromising.

[Sally]

I have to say (or I will say) that I get a little claustrophobic reading about someone being patient and loving and cautious and forbearing to their asexual partner. I know that it comes from a good heart, but I wonder if it would work toward a more healthy and honest relationship to just say, "Look, I know I want things you don't want, and you want things I don't want. I want sex. You don't. I wonder if there's a way we can get around that problem without either of us feeling guilty?"

Because here's what I think (and I realize that this sounds awful): the very kindness and willingness of a sexual partner to be patient with an asexual partner just sucks the life out of a relationship. Patience means you're waiting for something to happen. And the asexual knows it.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

I have to say (or I will say) that I get a little claustrophobic reading about someone being patient and loving and cautious and forbearing to their asexual partner. I know that it comes from a good heart, but I wonder if it would work toward a more healthy and honest relationship to just say, "Look, I know I want things you don't want, and you want things I don't want. I want sex. You don't. I wonder if there's a way we can get around that problem without either of us feeling guilty?"

Because here's what I think (and I realize that this sounds awful): the very kindness and willingness of a sexual partner to be patient with an asexual partner just sucks the life out of a relationship. Patience means you're waiting for something to happen. And the asexual knows it.

And truly, that being "patient" is a HUGE point - it's good that Sally brought it up.

If you are being patient - which probably seems very reasonable to you - it's still exerting pressure and expectations on your partner. You may not intend that, but that is how she's going to feel. You may not push an obligation on her, but it will be there, in subtleties, and subconsciously. In fact, she will probably feel obligated, merely because you are sexual. I know my ace often feels that way - and she knows I have zero expectations of her, and I don't feel she's obligated to me in any way.

In your case, your girl probably feels that she has obligations to you and that you're expecting things from her at some future date. You're unconsciously putting her under pressure, which piles onto the pressure she has on herself (based on what cultural and societal expectations have of romantic relationships).

No wonder she feels overwhelmed - especially when you try so hard to be helpful. If you truly want to help her, ask her what she really wants - and tell her that this is her chance to say everything she wants, and that you will not interject. Ask her if she wants a romantic relationship with you. Be prepared for her to surprise, shock and (possibly) hurt you - but her answer will be honest and authentic to her, if you and her really have that open relationship that you have indicated (and I hope that it truly is). Listen to what she says, with your ears open and your mouth shut. Don't rebut, don't argue and don't try to justify your past behaviours. This conversation needs to be all about her, or you'll never get her to open up to you again. If you don't think you can do this verbally, ask her to write you a letter - but do it when you're apart for a bit, so she can relax and let her emotions and thoughts flow to the paper.

I'll say it again: do not react to what she says or writes. Read the letter or listen to what she says. Then do it - and if that means that you two stay together, then be sure you provide her what she needs in the relationship, unless you simply can't (and there's NO shame in that - you have your limits, too!). If she says she doesn't want a romantic relationship, try not to take it personally. You can't have a relationship with only one person putting in the effort. For one, it's exhausting, and it's also very unfulfilling.

Can you and her "fix" this? Maybe. I wouldn't recommend focusing on that, though. Stop focusing on your needs and wants in the relationship. Focus on hers, and on what you - as an individual - need on your own. A healthy relationship isn't one where the individual disappears and is eclipsed by the other, or by the new relationship. It's two individual, distinct people, who choose to build something together.

[stillAboy]

The issue with focusing on her wants makes her feel like a burden, she seems so pessimistic about everything nowadays (recent issues with her family) So she has been moody and she finds it hard to remember what it feels like to be happy again, she seems to recall all our problems and the negative side of our r/s when she looks at me. Everything I do (or don't do - I thought that the time we spent apart while I'm studying for my finals might improve the situation) seems to make her feel like she's dragging me down. Now the issues at hand seem waaaaay scarier than the problems of sex (I say problem not because the problem is the difference in wants, not the lack of sex because I know that it's not right to label it as a problem), as I understand will always linger regardless of whether it is involved in the actual situation as it is a factor that will always weigh heavily on her mind. But currently she feels unable to feel happy with anything or anyone including me. And I feel like I'm completely useless here. I understand I can just focus on myself and be happy with what I have without her (like exercising and going out with friends) but I feel that leaving her alone to deal with her own emotions causes a negative reaction for her as well. Asking her about it makes things worse, reminds her that her lack of expression causes difficulties in communication. Not asking about it and leaving her to be makes matters awkward for us and she'll be surrounded by all her own pessimism.

What I'm doing now seems like the wrong thing to do and makes me a complete asshole, I'm currently just pretending to be unaffected by her moodiness and trying my best to show her that I'm still happily by her side and that main point I'm trying to put across is that no matter how bad the situation, I'll always want to be there with her. But being pretentious and faking a smile feels so wrong to me, we both obviously know that she's feeling crap and that I can't do anything to help her out in her situation with her family and her position in life. So this seems like the only conclusion that I came to. It's started taking a toil on me, I'm not trying to change the way she reacts or the way she handles her situations, I'm not trying to teach her how to deal with her misery, I'm focusing on myself and wondering where my place is with her, where I still fit amongst all the problems she is surrounded by. Compared to the people dealing with poverty and starvation or life threatening situations, these emotional dangers seem unimportant and reminds us of the joys we may find in the little bits of life, how waking up in a bed every morning can be seen as a privilege, where food can be purchased at any time of craving (not even hunger). Where I'm lucky that we still have our parents and our family and friends and our society is at peace... She isn't able to see any of these optimistic points and she chooses to remain miserable (consciously or subconsciously, she still does it).

Am I a terrible person? Am I an asshole? Am I trying to control her or "fix" her? Am I forcing the relationship? She says that being with me, makes her feel like a terrible person, because she has become so naturally at ease with me that she treats me with the harshest forms of expressions that come to her mind without holding back, as she is one whom doesn't find it comfortable to express love or joy, she just naturally doesn't. She naturally says hurtful things and poisonous remarks without much thought and doesn't regret them saying that it is true. Then without apologising or feeling remorse for what she has said or done, she just compares the way she treats me to the way she treats her friends and family and she gets enveloped in self-hate ( all the "I suck!" and "I'm not worth it!" stuff). Honestly, I have probably contributed to her self-hate by informing her that saying those things are not really nice, and that sometimes I get hurt. That certain things she say are unnecessary and escalates the situation unless I take the damage and absorb it and smile along... When I point out these things and I request that she use less of such words or don't talk to me that way, (sometimes I feel like I'm being treated like an animal- not a pet, an animal) she reacts by getting all moody and saying that she sucks and that she doesn't deserve to be in a relationship. When I ask if she can just be a little bit more mindful of the things she says to me especially in front of others, she responds with "No, there will always be a time when I will say it things like this." OMG honestly I think the only reason I'm having so much difficulty with this girl is because I love her more than she loves me. I've never had any problem at all with my other girlfriends.(probably because I never felt as emotionally attached and was able to walk away from them before things escalated to this level...)

Sorry for another long post. I feel like I'm whining to the net and all of you are just listening to me cry and whine out. Feels pathetic of me and I sincerely apologise, I can't tell these to my friends as they know her and it would affect their impression of her, the few people I've mentioned a little bit of my issues with before have immediately responded with extremely negative remarks that she's not worth my time and she's being unfair to me and such. That if so much effort and thought has to go into a relationship it is not natural and not meant to be??? Is that true? hahahas, That True Love wouldn't be so difficult to deal with? that I'm possibly investing waaaay too much of myself and my life into something that was never meant to be? (My gf had begun questioning her feelings for me recently, she thinks she loves me but she isn't in love with me. that her friends told her that when you're truly in love you'd want to put in effort to make things work, that you'll be willing to go the distance for the other person. and she doesn't feel that way, she would rather neither of us moved an inch and already be next to each other than have me travel the distance. she says she isnt worth the effort of travelling any distance...)

Sometimes, It's not that I disagree or maybe it's because I don't fully understand, but I get a little frustrated by the vagueness of certain suggestions. In my mind, I've tried everything I could possibly think of, I cant force her or suggest anything with her because it pressures her to do something she is not comfortable with, it forces her to acknowledge the need to make up for the lack of communication.

For those of you whom wanted me to focus on myself, I feel that in my current situation, I have everything to lose and nothing to gain, From both staying or leaving. I feel that both ways her happiness would add up to be roughly the same, If I wasn't around to make her happy or let her feel loved, my love wouldn't pressure her or cause her to feel inadequate, so it probably evens out.

For those of you whom said that I should focus on her wants and needs, she wants me to be around but not want me to be around for her. She wants me to love her without wanting her to love me back. She wishes that I don't get hurt by her hurtful words and actions, that the situation would seem fair to me regardless of the unfairness, she Doesn't want to realise that she treats me badly, she wants to continue to treat me badly without knowing that she is doing so. In other words, she doesn't want to be unfair to me but she wants to be herself and that means treating me badly. She only treats me so badly because I'm the only one who can take it, the people in her entire life see her as a timid person, easily persuaded, easily bullied and pushed around, see her as cute and cheerful, because she hides her pain and focuses on friendship. With me, I'm shown the truth, I am shown what she would be like with her friends if she had been completely open with them. Her true reaction to every little irritation. Her true self. And she hates it that she treats me that way... omg so confusing, I confused myself while trying to explain her wants. She claims that she has "no wants" in life and that she would be contented with all shit that other people give her. She doesn't admit that she wants me around and insists that she has no preference when she does. Her "yes" comes in the form of "no preference" and "Up to you" which tends to be the same as an angry "I cannot force you" and confuses me to no end.

In the midst of Frustration I have considered turning to religion but my agnostic/deist/theist mindset doesn't allow me to subscribe to a specific religion. So instead of asking god to help me, I turn to the knowledge/experience/wisdom of the people amongst us here! :)

[Percivel]

I think that maybe she is so sad because she may be thinking that by being with you she is causing you pain...thus causing herself pain. And thinking... "If I were to break up with you, to whom could I go? Who would want to date an ace? Am I destined for a life of loneliness and no love?"

That's what I would think. These thoughts would make me depressed and sad and lonely, too. It sounds like she's numb and at a loss for what to do. Her thoughts and emotions consume her and beat her down. She doesn't care much about anything anymore. Have you shown her AVEN?

[Sally]

It sounds like this relationship is not at all comfortable for you, let alone giving you any happiness.

Since you've tried everything you can think of, and have spent a lot of time, energy, and love on trying to help her, can you see yourself continuing to do that for the foreseeable future?

[Earth Sprite]

For those of you whom said that I should focus on her wants and needs, she wants me to be around but not want me to be around for her. She wants me to love her without wanting her to love me back. She wishes that I don't get hurt by her hurtful words and actions, that the situation would seem fair to me regardless of the unfairness, she Doesn't want to realise that she treats me badly, she wants to continue to treat me badly without knowing that she is doing so. In other words, she doesn't want to be unfair to me but she wants to be herself and that means treating me badly. She only treats me so badly because I'm the only one who can take it, the people in her entire life see her as a timid person, easily persuaded, easily bullied and pushed around, see her as cute and cheerful, because she hides her pain and focuses on friendship. With me, I'm shown the truth, I am shown what she would be like with her friends if she had been completely open with them. Her true reaction to every little irritation. Her true self. And she hates it that she treats me that way... omg so confusing, I confused myself while trying to explain her wants. She claims that she has "no wants" in life and that she would be contented with all shit that other people give her. She doesn't admit that she wants me around and insists that she has no preference when she does. Her "yes" comes in the form of "no preference" and "Up to you" which tends to be the same as an angry "I cannot force you" and confuses me to no end.

In the midst of Frustration I have considered turning to religion but my agnostic/deist/theist mindset doesn't allow me to subscribe to a specific religion. So instead of asking god to help me, I turn to the knowledge/experience/wisdom of the people amongst us here! :)

That is an interesting situation. :) :)

First, there is that thing: she wants you to be around but not want you to be around for her & she wants you to love her without wanting her to love you back & she doesn't want to be unfair to you but she wants to be herself and that means treating you badly.

Well, you can love her altruistically. But you shall do that by loving her person only & not accepting her actions. You cannot expect perfectly mutual loving/significant relationship, but you shall accept the incompleteness of that relationship, which maybe can still be loving/significant, maybe not (you need communication to decide between these alternatives).

Secondly, there is that thing: You are shown the truth, You are shown what she would be like with her friends, if she had been completely open with them. Her true self. [...] And she hates it that she treats you that way, however.

Well, that is her problem. She is honest for you. Even though she hates herself, for being like that. My theory would be: she is in the middle of change. (I suppose, she has been acting different way in her earlier relationships.) Maybe something in your behaviour has lead to (or has made possible to) her behaving that way.

Well, she is still hating herself for her own behaviour. Now, you must decide together by communicating, which will be the direction of the change in the future. There is some change, already, that´s why the present situation is not satisfying. Please, remember that the change is always a possibility for many directions. Try to be open & try to listen each other. Be adjustable. Be vigorous. :) :)

[Exosk]

I second Sally and Percivel.

I want to hear from her on this thread. I'd like to think that if you two are really working together, she would be putting her two cents in here as well.

I wouldn't put it past certain people to take the advice from this forum to try to "be one step ahead of", confuse, and abuse young asexuals.

I'm sorry if this post is inappropriate, but with how I'm reading it, this thread is disturbing.

[stillAboy]

Wow. Haha, I'll try not to take offence at what you said.

I second Sally and Percivel.

I want to hear from her on this thread. I'd like to think that if you two are really working together, she would be putting her two cents in here as well.

I wouldn't put it past certain people to take the advice from this forum to try to "be one step ahead of", confuse, and abuse young asexuals.

I'm sorry if this post is inappropriate, but with how I'm reading it, this thread is disturbing.

Well, that is a really disturbing thought; that people would come on to Aven to find means to manipulating asexuals, wouldn't it be much easier to just find another sexual?

I have told her about Aven and that there are people like her (not exactly but ya) and she hasn't completely acknowledged that she's ace yet and I am in no position to label her as such. She is not interested in finding more about others like her, she is not interested in learning more about asexuality. She is not putting in equal effort into the relationship (as mentioned many times before) and she just wants to be comfortable on her own way. I know it sounds selfish but her personality is as such, the people closest to her (myself and her family) all know that her personality is like that. When we talk about her (like if her sister is angry at her and complains to me) I'll notice all the traits of negativity and her flaws and I can completely empathize with them, but the usual response to such complains is always "hey you're her family and you've known her to be like this since young, she's just like that... accept it. work a way around it or ignore" she won't address issues head on or be open to communication because of various reasons I can only speculate, but one thing for certain is that they make her uncomfortable. It's no longer just about Sex or No sex, it's a lot about her and her character and attitude regarding herself and the people around her. I'm not here for her, I'm here for me, I want to find out what I can be or what I can do to make things better, to empower myself towards happiness.

I can't force her to create an account and read through the forum. I won't force her to do anything... I can only influence the change upon myself, I can only affect the relationship from becoming a better person, a better partner, from learning more or trying at least to understand more. I guess that being an asexual puts a person in a significantly different position from the others in society, and I may be wrong but I'm hoping that there are others whom have dealt with such issues.

She doesn't have an issue with being single for the rest of her life, she's comfortable with the thoughts of growing old with her mum and on her own... She doesn't need a life partner. So her only concern with breaking up with me is, does she love me and can she be happy with me. I can't answer those questions for her. I have already decided that I want to and I can be happy with her. If our fights and arguments (petty nonsensical stuff that I regret getting angry over) are too much for her to take, if she insists on focusing on her pessimism instead of being happy with me. I think I'm doing her more harm than good and I rather not be another source of misery for her.

I have my flaws too and problems with the way I handle my temper and she has always been able to accept me for it, until now. I have been getting better and being more patient and curbing everything from frustration to use of vulgarities, and honestly I have changed so much. I have become a much better person as a whole not just in respect to the relationship but to my family and friends as well. And she can see the change and she feels that she's lousy compared to the effort I put in. I don't know how to help her see the light, that there is so much more to be happy about than there is to be miserable. Recently she told me that she has been unhappy with everything including me, and I didn't know, she acted as if nothing was wrong for days and I never noticed because I was busy studying and we had not met up (we were communicating online and over phone). Makes me reconsider my position in her life and whether I should still be here. I don't mind being just a friend if being her boyfriend gives her too much pressure. I don't mind leaving her alone or breaking up. I don't mind Anything as long as she's happier. I wont be happy about it but I would rather she be happy than anything else. If she's happy I won't regret, I won't question my decisions, I won't question myself. I don't want her to pretend, I don't want her to act because she thinks I'll be unhappy if she doesn't... She has to just be able to cheer up and be happy and if me being around her makes things difficult and if I'm blocking her from happiness, I do not want to be here anymore.

As mentioned, she has trouble telling me that she wants me to stay, but she has no trouble telling me to go away even when she doesn't mean it. That's one of the biggest issues I have because I get confused and it hurts my pride and it just hurts in general and I just want to make her happy and I'm confused and when I ask her if she really wants me gone, she doesn't reply. When I ask is it really better if I go? She says "if you want to, nobody is stopping you!" But she doesn't answer if she wants me to go or to stay. She just insist that I can walk away (of course I can walk away)... I want to say that I'm not an insecure person, but honestly no other words fit this situation, I am insecure, I do not understand where I stand and how to continue unless she tells me. This is the biggest problem when communication only goes one way. I need her input, I'm not in this r/s with myself... sigh... Am I making sense or am I just repeating confusing statements? If she insists on committing spiritual suicide and nothing I do can make her feel better or change her perspective of life, I rather not be another reason (actually I probably add on a handful of reasons) for her to be miserable.

[Exosk]

...Wow. Haha, I'll try not to take offence at what you said...

...Well, that is a really disturbing thought; that people would come on to Aven to find means to manipulating asexuals, wouldn't it be much easier to just find another sexual?...

Not if it's someone who is in denial about the existence of it. I have dealt with people telling me I'm wrong about my sexuality my whole life. And the first thing most men think is that it is a challenge or bet for them to beat.

...I have told her about Aven and that there are people like her (not exactly but ya) and she hasn't completely acknowledged that she's ace yet and I am in no position to label her as such. She is not interested in finding more about others like her, she is not interested in learning more about asexuality...

...I can't force her to create an account and read through the forum. I won't force her to do anything...

I didn't say anything about forcing her, but I wonder if you have written all this in a matter you think would be acceptable if she could read it over. I don't know anything about your relationship other than what you've posted. And no one here other than you knows the manner and tone that you brought up asexuality to her. That would influence her desire to seek out further information on it, especially if she has never heard of it before.

[Sally]

Murielle, on 03 May 2014 - 3:34 PM, said:

I second Sally and Percivel.

I want to hear from her on this thread. I'd like to think that if you two are really working together, she would be putting her two cents in here as well.

I wouldn't put it past certain people to take the advice from this forum to try to "be one step ahead of", confuse, and abuse young asexuals.

I'm sorry if this post is inappropriate, but with how I'm reading it, this thread is disturbing.

I don't know what you're seconding, but that is not at all what I said or meant. I hardly think that anyone would try to confuse or abuse young asexuals. That's really an insulting thing to say.

[Exosk]

I have to say (or I will say) that I get a little claustrophobic reading about someone being patient and loving and cautious and forbearing to their asexual partner.

Sorry for not clarifying it, but I second that feeling; clearly for different reasons. I'm not looking for a battle, so I'm just going to disregard this thread.

[Earth Sprite]

I have to say (or I will say) that I get a little claustrophobic reading about someone being patient and loving and cautious and forbearing to their asexual partner.

Sorry for not clarifying it, but I second that feeling; clearly for different reasons.

That is important, that Murielle and Sally pointed out their feelings like above. Maybe they have intuitively understood something essential?

Perhaps we cannot say any more in this situation, in which there is only one voice heard? Guess we cannot have dialogue without the other one.

[Lady Girl]

Perhaps we cannot say any more in this situation, in which there is only one voice heard? Guess we cannot have dialogue without the other one.

It's pretty rare (if ever) that both partners post in a thread about their relationship. More often than not, only one person is here talking about the relationship and we just have to help as best as we can knowing that we are hearing what they feel and not the partner.

To stillAboy, I think it's to the point where you do need to decide if you're going to stay and if you are, accept her and do the best you can with what you know to be some of her issues. If you are torn between staying or leaving, maybe you could go with a third option. You could temporarily part ways for a designated period of time and then maybe both of you could have some time to think about the relationship totally on your own. It's just another option.

[Earth Sprite]

It's pretty rare (if ever) that both partners post in a thread about their relationship. More often than not, only one person is here talking about the relationship and we just have to help as best as we can knowing that we are hearing what they feel and not the partner.

To stillAboy, I think it's to the point where you do need to decide if you're going to stay and if you are, accept her and do the best you can with what you know to be some of her issues. If you are torn between staying or leaving, maybe you could go with a third option. You could temporarily part ways for a designated period of time and then maybe both of you could have some time to think about the relationship totally on your own. It's just another option.

Well ... Lady Girl could be right in both these matters, I think now. It is difficult to have a dialogue in public. And temporary part away could be a way to achieve better communication in the future. That could be a way to clean up that claustrophobic feeling, too, that Sally & Murielle pointed out.

The amount of the words can be imbalanced between the two persons desperately trying to communicate. Or simply there can be too much speech in some situations. Silence, then, can be the beginning of the mutual dialogue in future, in some cases. (Not in every case.)

[NotAllHere]

I might be jumping in a little late... but I think that your relationship problems don't stem at all from your girlfriend's asexuality (if she even is asexual).

It sounds more like your girlfriend is depressed. It can easily make a person seem overly pessimistic; there is no light in the world anymore, so how could there be joy? It can make a person unsure of what they want or need. It can make you lash out at others, belittle them, say horrible things, curl up in balls.

I know that when I've been depressed that I've curled into my fair share of couch-balls. Or closet-balls. Or bathtub-balls. I want to be left alone, because I feel better and I don't want comfort, but I want someone there to comfort me because I want to feel loved. It's a very contradictory thing, which makes it even worse for the person experiencing it because you want and need two very different things at once. It's sometimes just brain-melting. And I was sometimes mean, too, for really no reason but my brain was 'infected' with terrible ideas and such that made me simply react. Badly, too, often enough.

And if this is true, then you are wrong about one thing; that she, consciously or unconsciously, is keeping herself unhappy and pessimistic. She isn't. She has no control over her thoughts or feelings. She would love to see the bright side, but when stuck in that hole, sometimes trying to reach the light is just plain too exhausting. It can be easier to stay in that hole; or despite how often you try to show her, she herself can't see the way out.

How do you deal with this? Well, I would say that you both need time apart to think. Can you deal with the fact that she might never change, or might even get worse. Can you take it impersonally when she insults you or are you going to be holding onto pent-up anger (a perfectly valid way to feel if you get constantly hated on) that might sometime explode on you both? I don't know what would work for you because (no matter how many times you type it) none of us really know the situation. We have a bias angle on your view (we only get your view, and we only get one angle of that because, well, words sometimes aren't adequate to really explain your view).

Listen to your heart, but remember to run everything through your brain, too. I's a balance. Good luck to both of you!

[stillAboy]

Hey guys, Sorry for such a late reply, been thinking about things and trying to work things out in a more gradual approach, been taking things slower trying to make minor changes to how things work out as a whole, like how we deal with each other. she's being very patient and trying out new methods in dealing with me as well... things seem to be working out for the moment.

Just a brief update: After we had a huge fight over something stupid, she decided that she didn't want to be with me because she felt that our future seemed too bleak or impossible. Then I accepted her decision but I suggested that we should discuss about our feelings for each other and where our friendship lay and our entire relationship as a whole. I added that the decision to break up mutually makes a lot more sense than her dumping me (because most of her reason for dumping me would be that she felt that I deserved better than her). I mean, as a partner, shouldn't we discuss before we made such a huge decision that would impact both our families and friends; things such as what we would tell everyone, how we would continue to be friend, what are our boundaries, etc.

As we discussed such issues, she ended up admitting that she loves every moment we spend together when we aren't fighting but when we do fight she loses sight of anything positive between us. Somehow a proper discussion of our current feelings for each other and where we actually want to stand in each other's lives does sound like we should stay together instead of splitting up, (because if we broke up our situation would seem almost exactly the same). So we decided to give us one last shot and try our best to be together. So far, we're doing quite well, every new argument, she has put in effort in resolving the issues instead of constantly blowing things up and I have always had a slight temper issue that she's helping me curb. Guess things are going well, I really appreciate how she's dealing with our "fights" these days;like how she changes the topic after we have reached a solution instead of insistently arguing about redundant matters. Mmm, if we don't work out despite our efforts then I guess I'll just settle with being her close friend for life.

Just wanted to add in another thanks for all the comments and help so far, I'll provide future updates with further improvements or news ><