Long Term r/s, problems compromising.

[stillAboy]

Yo peeps. ive been reading through the forums and decided i'd join the community and post my own story here. My partner and i have been in a long term r/s and she has always known that she is disgusted by sex. I always thought it was due to her immaturity or that maybe she was a "late bloomer". We love each other very much and although i really dont want to, i always end up pressuring her either directly or indirectly to do stuff out of her comfort zone. and she gives in once awhile and tries to appease me but ends up really upset and unhappy.

She used to have problems with physical contact but she managed to outgrow them. she comes from a troubled family background and has the lack of proper male presence in her family. she has issues expressing emotions and holds her thoughts in, making major life decisions on her own, making most decisions on her own without checking with others. She is very sociable and has many close friends labelled as family; both male and female.

Recently she felt really bad about how she isnt satisfying me that way and how we are all affected by societal pressures; also by the fact and im still young and really active and have strong desires that i have to control. This led to her thinking that breaking up would be the best for the both of us as I would be able to find someone whom could pleasure me sexually and she'd be happier knowing im happier. I believe that true love is greater than any sexual desire, so i held onto her. We also fight regularly due to stupid immature arguments (emphasis on how childish we are) So i held on to her and told her that i wont force her to compromise but i'll do my best to understand our situation. Its due to this serious event that i decide to voice out on Aven. I've only come to know of Asexuals recently (pls excuse my ignorance).

Now we seem quite happy with each other but i honestly feel very disturbed by the idea of no sex Forever. im worried about

how we'll have children next time. and we have talked about these things and we tend to understand each other but make no confirmations. as of now in the short term im asking for people's opinions on ways we could compromise or things we could try together to find out the limit of her discomfort on separate activities. she wants to satisfy me sexually with minimal participation. And i want to know the extent i can go with her without making her upset or angry.

In the Long term i really do see a future for us, its just really blurry and unclear at the moment. btw we are in our early twenties and have been romantically together for roughly 7 years.

[Lucinda]

im worried about how we'll have children next time.

Do you already have a child together?

Lucinda

[potato-chip]

Hi Stillaboy,

I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble. For people with high sex drives, sexual compatibility is a really important part of a relationship. You have to decide if it is a dealbreaker for you. I get your girlfriend's point too... I would feel sad and guilty if my partner was constantly frustrated and dissatisfied.

I have learned that sometimes love isn't enough...sometimes things or events just get in the way, and bring relationships to an end.

On the other hand, I have heard of couples trying very creative solutions to this particular problem, like having a sexually open relationship.

I hope the material on the site can help you and your girlfriend talk about this and find some strategies to deal. Might now be easy, but perhaps worth it!

Good luck!

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Welcome, Stillaboy!

You're not alone. There's lots of people who identify as sexual here on AVEN, and many of us are in situations that are similar (in one shape or form) to yours.

What you're going through now is something common to what many mixed sexual/asexual couples go through. I would encourage you to continue doing what you've been doing so far - mainly: communicate, communicate, communicate - and it stands to reason that you two could end up very happy together.

Best of luck, and if you want/need someone to talk to, message me. :)

[Guest]

You're worried about how you'll have kids next time??? Does she want more kids? If ya'll are super immature, young, and discussing breaking up, I don't think "how will we have (more?!!) children" should be your concern.

Love doesn't hit us once. Ever notice that when someone gets dumped, or someone's husband dies, or has an affair and leaves... all those people manage to fall in love again? People have an incredible capacity for emotional resiliency and love. It almost seems like you're dedicated to the relationship because LOVE is "all that matters". But love is definitely not all that matters. Relationships that don't function well aren't beneficial to anyone.

I'm not saying you should break up. What I am saying is that love may be enough to get you into a committed relationship, but its immature and irresponsible to make love the ONLY relevant factor. It also has the side effect of creating uncomfortable, coercive environments. If you really believe that if you love someone, you are obligated to be with them and only them, it usually also means that you over-rely on that person to fulfill your desires. "We love each other so we MUST be together, and since we MUST be together, you must satisfy my needs."

[Kitty Spoon Train]

If you really believe that if you love someone, you are obligated to be with them and only them, it usually also means that you over-rely on that person to fulfill your desires. "We love each other so we MUST be together, and since we MUST be together, you must satisfy my needs."

This is pretty much why I see romance - at least the form presented by mainstream popular culture - as inherently toxic. The above mentality is virtually the clinical definition of codependency.

[stillAboy]

Oh my, im sorry for the improper english used. I didnt mean that we have kids now, what i meant was how we'd want kids after marriage but due to her being asexual its kinda confusing. Aside from being in an open sexual r/s how else might we be able to satisfy each other without being making the other uncomfortable? I'm not open to the idea of being physical with another, makes me feel like im cheating, even if its consensual.

Hi Stillaboy,

I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble. For people with high sex drives, sexual compatibility is a really important part of a relationship. You have to decide if it is a dealbreaker for you. I get your girlfriend's point too... I would feel sad and guilty if my partner was constantly frustrated and dissatisfied.

I have learned that sometimes love isn't enough...sometimes things or events just get in the way, and bring relationships to an end.

On the other hand, I have heard of couples trying very creative solutions to this particular problem, like having a sexually open relationship.

I hope the material on the site can help you and your girlfriend talk about this and find some strategies to deal. Might now be easy, but perhaps worth it!

Good luck!

Thank you, she would agree with u that love isnt enough. due to our major differences in basically everything. its just that we have been really happy together regardless of differences and all the fights we've been through. only in the past year or so did we find out that she's really not open to anything sexual in nature. Currently we are both still happily tgt, putting in effort to make things work out. so i guess its going alright at the moment but im still a bit worried about how directionless we are and would like to rely on others' experience especially in the aspect of sex.

Any other creative solutions that an ace and a sexual can do together in replacement of sex? we havent tried anything yet because we dont really know what might work and im worried about putting her off.

If you really believe that if you love someone, you are obligated to be with them and only them, it usually also means that you over-rely on that person to fulfill your desires. "We love each other so we MUST be together, and since we MUST be together, you must satisfy my needs."

This is pretty much why I see romance - at least the form presented by mainstream popular culture - as inherently toxic. The above mentality is virtually the clinical definition of codependency.

wow. really very true. hmm...
initially we could not understand how we ended up liking each other so much, due to our huge difference in family background and personality/character so we decided to split up. We tried to move on with life and studied in separate countries for a few years. We dated others for awhile but nothing ever worked out for me because i always had her on my mind.(maybe because we kept in touch; like we would chat online once every few weeks)
when she came back from overseas, she admitted that all this while she's still been thinking about me romantically and we eventually decided that we would be better off together.

What you're trying to say is that, now that we found out that shes asexual, i should reconsider on how much importance i place on our relationship? because love can be found else where from a more suitable partner? is that what you're saying? im not disagreeing here because i completely understand how toxic the mindset of love and codependency can be. I totally understand how this does seem to apply to me to an extent. We got together because of our feelings, after being together for such a long time, we have learnt so much from each other and about each other. our families and friends have all seemed to integrated and we actually planned our future out together. Honestly im just looking for more ways for us to learn to connect with each other and to encourage her to communicate more.

[Guest]

You just gotta keep communicating. There's no magic way to get someone to talk, unfortunately. Try to make her feel comfortable, really listen, don't tell her how she feels, don't try to fix or diagnose her... all that stuff helps, but it's still not a guarantee that she'll open up.

I do get the feeling from you, however, that you think she has a duty to push herself as far as she can to satisfy you, and I don't think that's healthy. You really do need to be ok having no sex. If you're not ok with that... If you're still thinking about strap ons and other ways to, like, work your way around her asexuality, that's not a good place to be. There is no work-around. It is what it is.

I also worry about something. She broke up with you. I don't think you see it that way, but I think that's what she was trying to do. You kind of... didn't let her. You agreed to no sex, you took away all her reasons for the break up, so you're still together... for now. It seems to me, however, that what happened is that your gf decided she's done. She doesn't want sex and she doesn't want to feel responsible for your sexuality. The only reason things are ok right now is because you're not being sexual. However, if you stay away from sexual intimacy just long enough for her to feel comfortable, and then start all the compromise stuff again, which she clearly isn't interested in, she's going to want to break up again. Then, you'll agree to be sexless, she'll back down, and everything will be fine. Until you start up again.

Don't get caught in that cycle. She's made it clear that she would rather break up than deal with your sexual needs. Now it's your turn to make a decision. Are you actually OK with that, or are you just saying you're ok with it because you hope things will change?

[Feral_Sophisticate]

You just gotta keep communicating. There's no magic way to get someone to talk, unfortunately. Try to make her feel comfortable, really listen, don't tell her how she feels, don't try to fix or diagnose her... all that stuff helps, but it's still not a guarantee that she'll open up.

I do get the feeling from you, however, that you think she has a duty to push herself as far as she can to satisfy you, and I don't think that's healthy. You really do need to be ok having no sex. If you're not ok with that... If you're still thinking about strap ons and other ways to, like, work your way around her asexuality, that's not a good place to be. There is no work-around. It is what it is.

I also worry about something. She broke up with you. I don't think you see it that way, but I think that's what she was trying to do. You kind of... didn't let her. You agreed to no sex, you took away all her reasons for the break up, so you're still together... for now. It seems to me, however, that what happened is that your gf decided she's done. She doesn't want sex and she doesn't want to feel responsible for your sexuality. The only reason things are ok right now is because you're not being sexual. However, if you stay away from sexual intimacy just long enough for her to feel comfortable, and then start all the compromise stuff again, which she clearly isn't interested in, she's going to want to break up again. Then, you'll agree to be sexless, she'll back down, and everything will be fine. Until you start up again.

Don't get caught in that cycle. She's made it clear that she would rather break up than deal with your sexual needs. Now it's your turn to make a decision. Are you actually OK with that, or are you just saying you're ok with it because you hope things will change?

I agree with all the above.

Relationships - at least healthy ones - are all about compromise, not sacrifice. We each agree to meet somewhere between your needs and mine - at a stance that we are both content about, and go from there. It's when we give up too much of our own wants and needs (the "sacrifice") that things start to unravel.

OP, it almost sounds like you're trying too hard. "Settling" for something that you really don't want (or trying to convince someone to do the same) is a sure-fire way to invite resentment to the table. It might not be there now (though it could be), but it will be, eventually. No relationship that I know of has survived resentment entering the mix.

[Sally]

Agree with Skullery and Feral. And if you continue to try to hang onto her, you won't be the only one who may end up frustrated and resentful.

You say, "...making major life decisions on her own, making most decisions on her own without checking with others." But actually, that's generally what adults do if they are not married or committed to making decisions together as a couple. In that regard, you and she may have different ideas as to how much in charge of your own lives each is; I say that because it sounds like you're trying to make the decision for both of you about whether to stay together or not.

[stillAboy]

hmm. i guess you are all right in what you say and your opinions do reflect the situation. Let me repaint the picture for u from a different angle, we have been together for a long time, we have fights (estimated monthly) and get frustrated and occasionally consider splitting up but only in times of anger (roughly happened 2 times in the past 4 years). we never realised that she might be asexual because both of us thought that sexual desires might only arise in the heat of things, I thought that guys were hornier than girls... both raised in a Generally conservative community where by sexual needs/wants/activities are not spoken about in public or even amongst friends.

Recently due to us deciding to progress physically, over the past half a year or so, then got her thinking that she might not ever like it. and got me to consider that she might be asexual (not liking sex or having any sexual desire does sound asexual does it not?) therefore my travels over the world wide web has led me to Aven, my girlfriend herself wasnt even exposed to the idea that nonsexual ppl existed and i was the one who comforted her and told her that im sure its not that big an issue to us (her and i), contrary to what she has heard from our friends and family. Honestly, as sexuals, it does tend to get frustrating at times, and we do hope (one may never eliminate ALL sources of hope) that our partner may be comfortable with a small degree of activity. She likes kissing and touching and is ok with getting touched anywhere except specifically downthere. As she tried harder and harder to please me (unaware that she could be asexual), it fuelled her frustration and sense of failure, i never stopped her from trying and encouraged her advances, i never blamed her for being unable to do it. I do truly love her and if the ONLY WAY possible would be for me to do myself for the rest of my life, i cannot give u a 100% that im all for it but im pretty sure that i'd still choose her no matter other options given.

Currently, due to the most recent and Biggest fight of our life (caused by certain level of immaturity coming from me and attitude issues from her which i should be used to) coupled with the fact that her recent "failure", made her feel like she was not "good" enough for me and was always giving me crap. I held on to her out of instinct, as i usually did when she was angry or upset, only after i thought back did i get really affected by her giving up on us. and i thought things through and decided to talk to her about how we needed to communicate and giving up wasnt an option as long as we really did want to be tgt, the main question was how much do we want to be together? and i told her that if her biggest problem was about sex (which i think it was) then i would really do everything i can to make her feel comfortable and be happy... because my main purpose in this relationship is to alleviate the crap she gets from her family and work or school and her issues with other life matter, i feel really bad that i had become one of the sources of misery to her.

Current update on the situation that we have come to is that she doesnt want me to be completely unsatisfied sexually but isnt sure how to test her limits without getting depressed or upset. i have decided that if possible id like to avoid being Devoid of ANY form of sexual intimacy with the one i love but we dont know how to start or what to try without pushing her boundaries too much. and she is inexperienced and has been completely inattentive to any/all forms of sexual education (be it tv shows or jokes or internet or friends chatting). If proved to be impossible, i'd still choose to be with her. I understand that it might be irrational and maybe i am still young and that love may come into my life again from someone else, but this girl has been really special and i made a decision many years back that i would be a source of happiness for this "little girl".

By the way, the reason why we never realised that she could be asexual is that she was brought up in a family background that lacked intimacy and her dad was mostly absent and her mum rarely hugged her children. when we first got together, holding hands to her was sacred and she found hugging to be so scary. she was very sensitive to being remotely close to me because she liked me, she was completely fine being close to other guy or girl friends because she didnt think twice about them. as we spent more and more time together we slowly pushed her limits and i slowly slipped into her comfort zone and now we can lay in bed tgt and make out and shes completely happy with everything. as usual during initial stages she wouldnt enjoy it and was super sensitive and uncomfortable. only when she relaxed did she find things acceptable and be happy with them. at first, touching anywhere near her boobs would totally Freak her out. but now she is completely fine with it and although still feels a little weird enjoys little massages. the same feelings occurred when we ventured into more sexual touching and she thought it would be as usual when we progressed and she got used to them but we couldnt progress. and the frustration and discomfort accumulated. Thus leading me here ><

Now i value all your opinions and i am really grateful that so many people are actually reading and trying to help. it is such a relief to know that we are not the only couple facing this issue. However, now that we have passed the "break up" point, and decided to be together. I admit that i held on to her at first, but it affected me greatly and i couldnt remain being attached to someone who would give up so easily, so i went back and asked her again when she was cooled down. if she would really still walk away from us now when she wasnt angry. taking all the negative points into consideration and even the subtle pressure for sex always lingering in the air and the not so subtle pressures from society. and she thought about it long and hard and came back to me... we have decided to stay as one and push away thoughts of splitting up. working as one.

Communication is a slight issue due to her characteristics/personality, however i think that if i approach carefully i can coax her to open up to me every once in awhile. She is worried about not being able to have sex to have children, and i told her we could adopt but she would want a child born of both her and i... i think that she seems to be against artificial methods. She said that even thought she finds sex meaningless, its mostly the Pain (we are new to sex, her hymen is broken from exercises but she still finds it really painful) that is preventing her from letting me do her. she fears pain oh so much. So now instead of What i should have done (breakup n move on), Any opinions or ideas on what I should do now that the what is done cant be undone? like ideas of notsosexual intimate activities that would make her feel that she has contributed to my pleasure? or any ideas on other activities we could do tgt? or any opinions on how i should be to her? like how to be more supportive and make her feel secure regardless of sex or lack thereof? or ways to boost her self-esteem? she keeps thinking that shes not good enough for me. :(

Sorry for long post. i should change the topic title... Lol. misleading. problems compromising :x sorry again.

[Tjirpling]

I'm not gonna get into the discussion about what the right decisions in this situation would or could be, because I suck at that angle, but I should be able to contribute on the activity suggestion note.

Possibly TMI? Better to have a warning when not needed than none when needed, at least.

If she isn't squicked by you or herself being naked, you could try just hanging out without clothes on. Play a boardgame, watch a movie, take a bath together, cuddle without the intent of turning it into sex, etc. Being comfortable with being naked together takes either a lot of intimacy or a complete lack of care about being naked, but while it isn't (necessarily) sexual itself, it's certainly a good thing to have established before getting into blatantly sexual interactions.

If she isn't squicked by your arousal in general, you could try finding out if you'd both be comfortable with you masturbating while she is present. This might be intensely awkward (enough to make it too uncomfortable for either of you), but it could potentially add the social aspect to your sex life, even if she wouldn't really be involved. An alternative that could be either more or less awkward depending on your dispositions could be for her to give you a handjob, maybe while making out if she likes that.

For a less naked sex thing with less direct touch as well, there's the option of thrusting against, for example, her leg. This could be a naked thing, but could also involve underwear or even actual pants. Making sure it's comfortable for both of you might be hard, but I'm not giving a list of "try these!", just a list of things that might be options.

If she isn't really squicked by sex at all but simply doesn't enjoy it, you should probably talk to her to find out what sort of thing she's least opposed to doing (I've found this list helpful for starting up communication, although it is by no means perfect). Manual sex is the least involved form, but oral isn't quite as physically invasive as full on intercourse (imo, anyway). Anal might be a step too far, but it rarely hurts to ask (assuming polite, non-coercive asking, of course). It may also be worth suggesting that you try manual or oral on her if she is interested, without pressure for things to go further than she's comfortable (or at least not uncomfortable) with.

If she is interested in trying to have sexual intercourse (whatever the motivation may be) but afraid of the pain, I would suggest her to get a small dildo (of a soft material). She might not want to masturbate, but being able to practice on her own could make it easier for her to relax. An alternative is the aforementioned manual sex, but if she doesn't want it, your fingers probably won't be much better than your penis.

If it is impossible for her to experience penetration without pain, I'd suggest seeking out a doctor or therapist as the issue (the pain, that is) may be caused by more than nervousness.

If none of these things are things she is open to trying, you may have to accept that you will not be able to get more than what you currently have. From the sounds of it, the two of you make out occasionally and she is fine with you touching her all other places than her genitals. Try focusing on how much you enjoy those things, and presumably how much you enjoy her love. Maybe savor the memory of how she feels for when you indulge your sex drive alone. Don't lament that you can't have more than what you do have, instead try to squeeze all the satisfaction you possibly can out of the things you both enjoy.

There are so many ifs in this, but it's the best I can offer without knowing you guys better.

[stillAboy]

I wont force a compromise out of the situation and I'll always try my best. It tends to frustrate her a lot as well because aside from sexual issues, we also have some attitude problems to address, she tends to be a bit... I dont know the right word to describe it, at times when she is moody or upset with Herself (she tends to blame herself a lot, especially with r/s issues) she'll just curl up into a ball and refuse to acknowledge my presence. Then if I were to ask her if she will feel better if I left her alone and gave her some space, she tells me to do what I want?! hahas, what I gathered from that response is; I don't want you to leave but I want to be in my own space and I dont want to interact with you? something along those lines...

She knows that I'm giving my all and sexually she hasn't opened up to the idea of trying to compromise yet, we are currently at a standstill, where nothing sexual will happen because I won't push it and she doesn't know what she may not find uncomfortable. The idea of doing anything more than kissing just seems to freak her out? I hope that I'll have to strength to empower the both of us, because even if I can compromise, her pessimistic outlook on life is going to make her blame herself and give up on the relationship sooner or later.

Some situations go on like this: I never even implied that she was to be blamed in anyway, it usually goes like, Shes upset and giving me really bad attitude, and I'm asking her to tell me what's wrong, at least tell me why I'm being punished so that I know and I can avoid doing whatever it is that I did? but she refuses to respond and just says nothing is wrong, and I'll tell her that we need to communicate and that I really dont know what to do. She tends to resort to one line answers to every problem or argument; such as "I'm sorry I suck..." or "I cant change I'll always be like this, I never asked you to try to make us work, you should probably find someone else better than me." ... Sex aside... I dont know man... hahas I seem to be asking for general relationship advice now but its even more complicated as she's such a highly possible ace and I think she holds the lack of sex in the relationship as her responsibility...

[Feral_Sophisticate]

She said that even thought she finds sex meaningless, its mostly the Pain (we are new to sex, her hymen is broken from exercises but she still finds it really painful) that is preventing her from letting me do her. she fears pain oh so much. So now instead of What i should have done (breakup n move on), Any opinions or ideas on what I should do now that the what is done cant be undone? like ideas of notsosexual intimate activities that would make her feel that she has contributed to my pleasure? or any ideas on other activities we could do tgt? or any opinions on how i should be to her? like how to be more supportive and make her feel secure regardless of sex or lack thereof? or ways to boost her self-esteem? she keeps thinking that shes not good enough for me. :(.

Right there, you know precisely her point of view. She finds it meaningless. If that's the case, she will have zero interest in it, and won't indulge in it - without possibly feeling very guilty (and more than a little used) in the process.

You two may never get past this, honestly.

As for nonsexual intimate activities, my best recommendation to you is to own your own happiness, and tell her that everyone owns their own happiness. So, you want to take care of your pleasure? Take it. Sorry to be blunt here, but you have a hand - use it. Expecting or hoping for anything from her will affect how you treat her, and will continue to push her away.

And, in all honesty, I know you're trying to seem like the supportive boyfriend, your constant revisiting the sexual issues is probably highlighting (in her mind) how inadequate she is, and what a bad "fit" you two are. You want to make her feel like there's no pressure? Stop badgering her about how you can "fix" things. Be in the relationship - without expectations (beyond her time), and see what happens. If and when she's ready to escalate or evolve the relationship in the sexual direction, she will make that clear. However, don't think for a minute that sitting and waiting for her to "change her mind" is going to happen, as that will frustrate you both.

Another option - and not one for everyone - is to discuss a sexually open relationship. The risk there, though, is that this sort of thing only works when both parties have a positive sense of self, and where communication is - more often than not - effective, open and clear. From what we see here, that is not the case here, so an open relationship likely won't work.

Remember this: relationships take work. From both partners. If you feel that she's not contributing enough, even when she's invested all she can, then you need to evaluate things more clearly. What you have now may be as good as it's going to get for you both. Are you willing to accept that, for the next year, 5 years, decade or longer?

Some situations go on like this: I never even implied that she was to be blamed in anyway, it usually goes like, Shes upset and giving me really bad attitude, and I'm asking her to tell me what's wrong, at least tell me why I'm being punished so that I know and I can avoid doing whatever it is that I did? but she refuses to respond and just says nothing is wrong, and I'll tell her that we need to communicate and that I really dont know what to do. She tends to resort to one line answers to every problem or argument; such as "I'm sorry I suck..." or "I cant change I'll always be like this, I never asked you to try to make us work, you should probably find someone else better than me." ... Sex aside... I dont know man... hahas I seem to be asking for general relationship advice now but its even more complicated as she's such a highly possible ace and I think she holds the lack of sex in the relationship as her responsibility...

Here's the other thing: if she's having some serious self-image issues, or doubts her suitability to be in a relationship (with anyone), then she's not going to put that much effort in. From what I see here, she's already given up. Her concern about hurting you, and feeling more guilty about inadequacy could be leading her thusly.

Before someone can like someone else, they need to like themselves (in general), FIRST. In order to love someone else, self-love (and no, I'm not meaning the narcissistic kind) has to exist FIRST.

If she's lacking in a fundamental amount of self-love and self-like, then she will not be in a position to have a healthy respect with anyone - even someone who otherwise would be a good fit. Therapy and counselling may deal with the sense of inadequacy or self-image issues, but may not - in the long run - change anything about her being asexual.

@stillaboy, I'm going to ask you a few questions, and and I want you to be honest with yourself. You need not answer here. In fact, I would recommend that you take some time every day and write a letter to yourself, expressing your frustrations with where things are, and what's happening (or not), and then put it away for a few weeks or a month. Come back to it after it's had a little time to "percolate" and ripen.

Here's the question(s): If you're that sexual, and she's that asexual, what do you intend to derive from this relationship? Where do you see you and her a year from now? Two years? Five? Ten?

[stillAboy]

Hmm, thanks Feral! Writing to myself does sound like a good idea to judge our r/s progress. If the same issues persist, it would form a pattern that I would be able to re-evaluate.

Hmm... That question has been ringing in my head over the past few years, at every fight/argument we have had, and the answer always tends to be the same... (which is why I'm still in the r/s) Finding out about asexuality did make me revisit that question to reconsider... I'll have to get back to you on that because I want to take some time to try to rethink the entire situation from a fresh perspective as I'm currently too influenced by old habits and familiarity.

[Sally]

stillAboy, on 20 Apr 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:stillAboy, on 20 Apr 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

. The idea of doing anything more than kissing just seems to freak her out? I hope that I'll have to strength to empower the both of us,

I just wonder if you think that you can somehow be in charge of this relationship. What does "empower" mean to you -- try to convince her to try to want someone that she doesn't want? Because you want it? Because again, it sounds like she has been very plain about what she doesn't want. You want it; she doesn't. I say that as an asexual who has finally gotten to the point where I realize that I simply didn't want what I didn't want, and I no longer felt guilty about it

I think what sexual partners don't understand about asexual partners is that wedo feel guilty, because everywhere we look, everyone seems to want sex. Certainly our partners do, and they want us to want it, which is worse. Curling up in a ball, as you say she does, may not be attitude; it just means "leave me alone and quit wanting something from me I don't want."

A compromise that means one partner does something because otherwise they'll feel guilty is not a compromise.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

I think what sexual partners don't understand about asexual partners is that wedo feel guilty, because everywhere we look, everyone seems to want sex. Certainly our partners do, and they want us to want it, which is worse. Curling up in a ball, as you say she does, may not be attitude; it just means "leave me alone and quit wanting something from me I don't want."

A compromise that means one partner does something because otherwise they'll feel guilty is not a compromise.

As a sexual partner of an ace, I do understand that my girl feels guilty that she's not "wired" as I am. We've talked about that very subject more than once. I know that she feels pressure (even if I'm not trying to put any on her), and that she often feels obligated to be the sort of girl that societal and cultural obligations expect her to be.

I have to remind her now and then that I have no such expectations, and that I don't want a relationship based on obligation. I've had that (hell, I've had that a few like that) in the past, and I don't want to go down that road again.

She and I have made compromises, but I know she feels guilty about that, too. She and I have talked about that, too, and she has clearly stated that she feels that she may never deliver what she feels I deserve, or that I'm making compromises that she can't.

Here's the thing, though, and what I've stressed with her from the beginning: I'm happy with the compromises I've made. I'm not "keeping score" with regards to who's done (or not done) what. I'm also more than capable of managing my own pleasure/satisfaction, and I have striven to make it clear to her that - in my eyes - she has nothing to feel guilty about. She still does, and probably always will, as I know she will always feel a degree of inadequacy in our relationship.

@stillAboy - we're not trying to hate on you, or say that you're wrong. However, if her behaviour seems triggered by specific things that you say or do, then you might want to look at your own motivations more clearly. She may guilt herself into doing something for you - and you may chalk that up as a "victory", but at what cost? Allowing yourself to guilt her into doing thing's she's not comfortable doing - even if done unintentionally, or with the best of intentions - is still not the right way to do things.

If you're dating an ace, you need to consider and accept this one fact: they may never have sex with you. Ever. Reconcile yourself of that fact, as that is quite possibly where this relationship is heading. Accept that. For her sake, as all you're doing by trying so hard (which is admirable, but counterproductive at this point) is frustrating her.

Now, if you can accept that, and make the mental leap that you're going to be responsible for your own satisfaction (take that as you will), then tell her that and show her that you mean it, you may find her attitude to you will change.

Or not. Keep in mind, we are only hearing your side of the story here. We've heard nothing from her side, and all of us are giving advice based on nothing better than educated guesses. Her input and her side of the story here would be helpful. Hell, show her this thread, as it might help the two of you to talk about it, and deal with it more effectively.

[Sally]

Feral_Sophisticate, on 21 Apr 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:Feral_Sophisticate, on 21 Apr 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

If you're dating an ace, you need to consider and accept this one fact: they may never have sex with you. Ever. Reconcile yourself of that fact, as that is quite possibly where this relationship is heading. Accept that. For her sake, as all you're doing by trying so hard (which is admirable, but counterproductive at this point) is frustrating her.

Yes yes yes. Even if compromise is attempted by both parties, that doesn't mean that it will always be possible, so don't assume that what's possible now will be possible 5 years from now.

I never felt guilty about not being what society thought I should be. Society doesn't drive what I did or do. But the ever-pervasive sex causes asexuals (often) to feel guilty about not being what our partners wanted.

Because let's face it: no matter how forebearing a sexual partner is, no matter how much they try to accept us as we are, no matter how they're willing to accept sex if we can do it, no matter how much the asexual tries, it just isn't the same. The sexual wants a partner who wants sex also, and demonstrates it by their response to the sexual. And the asexual just doesn't want sex.

That's really what both partners in a mixed relationship have to deal with: that reality.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Because let's face it: no matter how forebearing a sexual partner is, no matter how much they try to accept us as we are, no matter how they're willing to accept sex if we can do it, no matter how much the asexual tries, it just isn't the same. The sexual wants a partner who wants sex also, and demonstrates it by their response to the sexual. And the asexual just doesn't want sex.

That's really what both partners in a mixed relationship have to deal with: that reality.

Indeed, and that's why communication is such a key component.

There are many ways the sexual half of a relationship can deal with getting that which their asexual can't deliver. Some of them require "flying solo", while others can be had in other ways. Open relationships are one possibility, but they are trying and difficult in their own right.

Mixed relationships can work, and the obviously do for some members here - but they aren't for everyone.

[stillAboy]

Well, I think I wasn't very clear, the lack of communication and her need to curl up into her own world isn't one that is related to any form of sexual related issues. It's those basic things like, maybe, her mum scolded her unreasonably for something that wasn't her fault... then instead of talking about it she'd just shut everyone out and curl up... Anything that upsets her or ruins her mood causes her to push everyone away and shut everything out. Wondering if anyone has any additional general (non-asexual related) relationship advice other than for me to be patient and sit by her side. There have been times when I tried to just be patient and she continued to shut me out until late and I had to attend to another matter at home, when I left she messaged me "If it makes you feel better, I do feel a bit better because you stayed" but that being said, its not really possible for me to throw an entire day away just because someone upset her with something stupid. She'll refuse to talk about it and just, sit alone at one side, and I have to keep my distance because when she's in a bad mood she especially hates any form of physical contact. Anyone has experiences with this kind of situation before? If you are like this, can you give me any advice as to what a partner should do? or if your partner has been like this before, what have you done that has helped or that you find effective? hahas. I've tried bringing this up before and telling her that I would appreciate it if she could help me to help her by telling me what she'd want me to do? but her response was that she doesn't want to force me to do anything and she feels that she is very unreasonable.

Like Feral, I have made it very clear that I chose to stay in this relationship and that I'm happily doing whatever she deems unreasonable because I feel that she is worth it and that it doesnt feel unreasonable to me, but she feels that she cant accept being in a r/s that feels so lopsided, she feels inadequate in more than one way because of her tendencies to avoid communication and avoid expressions of her feelings, how her family is always forcing her to place family before me and it's really unfair (in her eyes) that sometimes, she has made plans with me but as I am heading down to meet her she has to suddenly cancel on me because of some stupid reason like her mum wants her to accompany her to go shopping. Then I'll just say okay fine... and go home or make other plans with other friends, but she feels really apologetic and she keeps on going about how she sucks and the r/s is so unfair to me and that I'm too good for her blah blah blah... We stay more than 2 hours of travel time apart and I'll visit her 2-3 times a week, but she feels that I'm travelling too much and wasting too much time and she doesn't like it that I keep going the extra mile for her.

Should I take a step back and be less friendly? Should I be less Nice to her? I'm happy to do her all favours like going somewhere out of place to buy her favourite snacks and then head over to deliver them to her but she's not so excited by the idea that I went through all that trouble. Should I do less? because she doesn't want to put in as much effort for me and she doesn't like the huge difference. I'm perfectly okay with this except for her being "unokay" with it. She doesn't understand that I'm Happy to do so... I think it pressures her to do the same for me... But I've really tried my best to make it clear that I don't expect such from her... I'm happy with the way things are. Haha. Sorry I addressed a few different issues here.

[test account]

.

[Lady Girl]

You may think that her feelings of sexual inadequacy don't have anything to do with the curling up in a non responsive ball, but they could. The bad reaction she has to something 'silly' may be a coping mechanism for all her feelings crashing in on her at once. She may very well carry around all the hopes you have for her, wondering if she should try to push her limits for you and then something unpleasant happens and it's all just too much.

I get the feeling that there is a pretty constant, we need to work through this, or fix this aspect of our relationship type of message ever present in your dealings with each other. It's almost as if your ties to her are need based, on both sides. That isn't all bad in itself, but if it is the basic stuff of the relationship it can create a lot of drama.

My suggestion is that you focus more on yourself (your own behavior) and less on these things that you need to help her solve or overcome. I don't want to sound harsh, but I think that's something we all need to put at the top of our daily to do list. You are great to be there for her (and she has indicated that), but the overcoming of anything has to be her own doing.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

My suggestion is that you focus more on yourself (your own behavior) and less on these things that you need to help her solve or overcome. I don't want to sound harsh, but I think that's something we all need to put at the top of our daily to do list. You are great to be there for her (and she has indicated that), but the overcoming of anything has to be her own doing.

I concur, LG. Sometimes, focusing on you isn't selfish - it's an essential part of maintaining autonomy, and a key component for survival in our society.

[stillAboy]

Hmm, so for my part, when she is in such a state, what should I do? I have never had to deal with friends in this manner before, usually when they broke down in front of me they'll respond to comforting or at least put up an act or get embarrassed, but with my girlfriend she is just, ignoring me, but wants me to stay there. So... any suggestions? like, should I tell jokes or try to lighten the mood? or would that make things worse; as if I'm mocking her situation?

or

Are you guys trying to say that I should actually focus on what I want? Erm, when I'm placed in such a position I'd want to make her happy, but if that is beyond my power and I don't want to waste my time sitting there staring at her staring at the wall I'd probably play with my hand phone or just tell her about my past week (talk to myself)... I honestly feel so powerless in such a situation.

She wants to put in relatively equal effort into the relationship but she doesn't want to have to consciously put in effort. So basically she wants me to put in less effort... But I do it so naturally, (I'm also afraid that I'll end up spoiling her because she's getting used to me doing a lot of things for her) like how I'll happily buy her coffee in the morning and/or breakfast almost every time I head over to her place (she's really lazy). Most of the effort that she sees from me is from stuff like how I deal with her mood swings and her bad attitude, like she gets really offensive and her words really sting but I try to be patient and absorb the damage and stay with her with the goal of cheering her up. It freaks her out how much I've changed the past few months, I'm usually the type of guy who'd explode and argue a lot, who wouldn't hesitate to resort to shouting or scolding people. I'm raised up in a mostly male dominated community, where the guy doesn't take any sort of "crap" from "his woman" (no offence to anyone here, just some background info).

Learning to be better. Learning the meaning of better. Open to all suggestions and ideas, please treat me as a little kid and be specific, I'm sorry because I do understand what you guys are trying to say but when I'm placed in that exact situation I feel really lost and I know that I what I want to do but I don't know how to do it. I want to cheer her up, but as Lady girl said, there are some things she has to overcome on her own. So, by saying that I focus on myself... I just leave when she's feeling down? or... I can't mind my own business the whole day but stay by her side with her ignoring me, it gets kind of difficult as it's in her parent's house. Then her family members will know that there's something wrong but they do not understand that they might have been the cause of it, so they'll give me a funny look, and I'll just shrug? :/ and they might get angry at her when she doesn't respond properly to them... oh man... I've been roped in to so many of her family fights and every time the spot light turns to her, they'll complain about the same issues that I have with her, and my only defence for her is; you guys lived with her and raised her! Shouldn't you guys know that she's like that and she doesn't mean any harm... I love her so much it hurts to see her pushing away the people she loves the most and needs the most. She does it as a defence mechanism I think...

[Lady Girl]

Well first of all, I would stop talking about her bad 'attitude' because it really sounds like it's more than that. It sounds like depression almost. If you tell her it's an attitude problem, no wonder she gets offensive. If you have time to spend with her when she's feeling bad tell her you're there for her. If you have to be somewhere, tell her you're sorry but you have to go.

When I say focus on yourself, I don't mean be selfish. I mean look at how you play a part in all this and take the time to try different things yourself (like what I suggested above). Be responsible for yourself and if you like doing things for her do them. What I'm trying to say is this...live your life. It seems like you are too identified with her problems and your relationship with her depends on there being a problems to fix. Let go of the problems a little (stop thinking about how to fix everything), just be a bit more practical.

The relationship sounds sort of codependent. Focus more on the happy stuff and less on what needs fixing. Move forward somehow, don't keep talking about how or what to do, just do stuff. Live.

[Sally]

stillAboy, on 22 Apr 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Are you guys trying to say that I should actually focus on what I want?

Yes. It really does sound like you're trying to be her parent and her psychiatrist, when you are neither.

[Percivel]

You may think that her feelings of sexual inadequacy don't have anything to do with the curling up in a non responsive ball, but they could. The bad reaction she has to something 'silly' may be a coping mechanism for all her feelings crashing in on her at once. She may very well carry around all the hopes you have for her, wondering if she should try to push her limits for you and then something unpleasant happens and it's all just too much.

I get the feeling that there is a pretty constant, we need to work through this, or fix this aspect of our relationship type of message ever present in your dealings with each other. It's almost as if your ties to her are need based, on both sides. That isn't all bad in itself, but if it is the basic stuff of the relationship it can create a lot of drama.

My suggestion is that you focus more on yourself (your own behavior) and less on these things that you need to help her solve or overcome. I don't want to sound harsh, but I think that's something we all need to put at the top of our daily to do list. You are great to be there for her (and she has indicated that), but the overcoming of anything has to be her own doing.

Still, My wife often gets the same way when I try to talk about our intimacy issues. It is too emotionally overwhelming for my wife to deal with. She shuts down. It seems and feels cold to me but it is her mind and body not being able to overcome what she is feeling and thinking at the moment. She has to wait for the storm to pass before she can even function. She feels horribly, horribly guilty and blames herself (and probably me somewhat) for my suffering and unhappiness. It's the self-loathing. We sexuals feel it too but in a different way. Nothing I can say or do will make it go away. If she wants me to sit there with her while she crying (inside and out) then I sit there with her (which is usually the case). If she wants me out of her presence then I find something to do. It is something she has to work through each time.

What you can do is be quiet and keep loving her. What some are saying is true. For her to be happy, she needs you to be happy. And vice-versa. So, we need to find a way to be happy and she will naturally turn around and be happy...because she see's that you are happy. Who can be happy when their beloved is not? Her happiness depends on your happiness....so find a way to be happy...then her joy will come.

Still, your battle is not with your girl. Your battle is with yourself.

[Member54880]

I've been in a situation similar to yours, specifically, I can relate to a lot of what you say about your partner. I was in a unequal relationship, suffering from severe codependency, and this relationship was rife with communication problems. I still don't like talking about my problems with my ex, but I have to, so we can prevent the same mistakes from being made.

This part you said summed up the dynamic:

I have made it very clear that I chose to stay in this relationship and that I'm happily doing whatever she deems unreasonable because I feel that she is worth it and that it doesnt feel unreasonable to me, but she feels that she cant accept being in a r/s that feels so lopsided, she feels inadequate in more than one way because of her tendencies to avoid communication and avoid expressions of her feelings

It is very lopsided, and you shouldn't make assumptions. Because I didn't make it clear what I wanted or not, and struggled to express what I want or what I feel, he jumped the gun many times, and made decisions for me that he thought would make both of us happy, but only stressed me out further.

It'll be hard, especially if she doesn't like to talk, but you have to be patient asking her what things make her happy, what is it she wants in a relationship, and what she deems reasonable. Be careful not to rush into this, or be too pushy when asking questions. Ask them at a pace she's comfortable with, so she won't feel overwhelmed. I think that's part of the problem, feeling overwhelmed by the relationship and its lopsidedness. Doing sexual or romantic things purely out of obligation towards the other person is bad, because it'll lead to feeling resentment over time, and hurt the relationship in the long run.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

The trouble with codependency in intimate relationships is that - from an outsider perspective - it can look virtually identical to the genuine, positive and perfectly valid and legitimate sacrifices and give-and-take that always come with intimate relationships. The problem is, some of the things people do (even things that are baked into the culture - to the point of virtually being institutional) are actually completely toxic and codependent, but considered "normal" to do in relationships.

There really shouldn't be anything to "win" or "lose" with a healthy relationship. If there is, you've already lost.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

There really shouldn't be anything to "win" or "lose" with a healthy relationship. If there is, you've already lost.

Truly, there isn't enough :cake: :cake: :cake: in the world for this.