There is hope!

[Percivel]

I think I have turned a corner....gone to the next stage, so to speak, in my relationship with my ace wife.

This is indeed good news but I'm a bit nervous and being cautious. I'm trying not to get too excited about it because I think more time (and mental effort) needs to occur before I know that if where I'm at now is going to be long term. I still worry a bit that my "dark passenger" will still pounce on me any minute. That's why I am hesitant of even posting this.

But! I think I have finally really accepted my wife being ace and that our life without sexual intimacy is a reality and that it is still good...and that everything will be okay. I am becoming happy with it. Of course, I still wish I could still have sexual intimacy with my wife, but I no longer am letting it consume me. I'm letting it go. By being accepting of it and being happier with it...my wife is becoming happier.

I have felt myself "turning the corner" over the past few months, but over the past few weeks I have been in a really good place. Feeling good has never lasted this long. I have become not so dependent on sexual intimacy. This time feels different than the previous short spans of feeling good.

After twenty years of struggling and being confused, and then another three of more struggle but working hard and trying to understand since I found AVEN, I think I finally am seeing light at the end of the tunnel. For the first time, I feel like we are winning the battle.

I'm writing this to give hope to those who choose to stay with their beloved ace.

[Lady Girl]

I don't blame you for being nervous...it seems that wanting something our spouse doesn't have to offer or wishing things were more like our ideal picture are feelings that come out of nowhere. I have noticed one thing about it though; being tired, hungry, and stressed about other life issues all at the same time is a recipe for negative emotion pie. It heats up nicely at 100 degrees and 85% humidity.

[apeyron1989]

Thank you for the post, it's giving me hope and it made me realize I can be like you and not let it consume me too :)

[Down in Texas]

I too am striving for that comfort spot. I have to admit it is not as deep of an emotional void as it was when I first came to AVEN two years ago. However I still miss the intimacy that was once present even if it was not normal from the beginning it was still MY normal.

I think I always had the HOPE that one day we would find the "FIX" until I found AVEN. As much as I am glad I found the long searched for answers finding them took away all the HOPE that one day we would find the missing link to our intimacy issues. I am now trying to come to terms with the fact of that lost Hope. Things are better for my partner because I no longer pressure him for sex but there are still times when he snuggles up behind me and just that one special move that make me yearn for more. It is these times that are the hardest.

[Pip Pirrip]

I live and breath on hope. I just don't know what to hope for anymore. I don't know what is to come. I hope for peace of mind more than anything one day.

[Percivel]

I have been (and continue to) holding Lady Girl's hand in my journey through this dark, scary seemingly hopeless forest that I found myself in. Others here have greatly helped, too. Sometimes I think that Lady Girl is just nuts when she says some of her optimistic things...later to find out that she was right all along.

[whitezin65]

I think I have turned a corner....gone to the next stage, so to speak, in my relationship with my ace wife.

This is indeed good news but I'm a bit nervous and being cautious. I'm trying not to get too excited about it because I think more time (and mental effort) needs to occur before I know that if where I'm at now is going to be long term. I still worry a bit that my "dark passenger" will still pounce on me any minute. That's why I am hesitant of even posting this.

But! I think I have finally really accepted my wife being ace and that our life without sexual intimacy is a reality and that it is still good...and that everything will be okay. I am becoming happy with it. Of course, I still wish I could still have sexual intimacy with my wife, but I no longer am letting it consume me. I'm letting it go. By being accepting of it and being happier with it...my wife is becoming happier.

I have felt myself "turning the corner" over the past few months, but over the past few weeks I have been in a really good place. Feeling good has never lasted this long. I have become not so dependent on sexual intimacy. This time feels different than the previous short spans of feeling good.

After twenty years of struggling and being confused, and then another three of more struggle but working hard and trying to understand since I found AVEN, I think I finally am seeing light at the end of the tunnel. For the first time, I feel like we are winning the battle.

I'm writing this to give hope to those who choose to stay with their beloved ace.

I envy & feel sorry for you @ the same time. So, are you saying that you're becoming asexual? After trolling this site for the past several weeks I've come away w/the impression that change & compromise are nearly 100% the responsibility of the sexual partner. Because my partner no longer desires to have sex, I'm just supposed to accept it & live w/it? I truly love my partner, (hence my envy) but I'm not sure I'm willing to shoulder all of the compromise & totally ignore my sexual nature. It's part of who I am & how I was made/programmed. What compromise is an asexual partner expected to make?

[Lady Girl]

I think I have turned a corner....gone to the next stage, so to speak, in my relationship with my ace wife.

This is indeed good news but I'm a bit nervous and being cautious. I'm trying not to get too excited about it because I think more time (and mental effort) needs to occur before I know that if where I'm at now is going to be long term. I still worry a bit that my "dark passenger" will still pounce on me any minute. That's why I am hesitant of even posting this.

But! I think I have finally really accepted my wife being ace and that our life without sexual intimacy is a reality and that it is still good...and that everything will be okay. I am becoming happy with it. Of course, I still wish I could still have sexual intimacy with my wife, but I no longer am letting it consume me. I'm letting it go. By being accepting of it and being happier with it...my wife is becoming happier.

I have felt myself "turning the corner" over the past few months, but over the past few weeks I have been in a really good place. Feeling good has never lasted this long. I have become not so dependent on sexual intimacy. This time feels different than the previous short spans of feeling good.

After twenty years of struggling and being confused, and then another three of more struggle but working hard and trying to understand since I found AVEN, I think I finally am seeing light at the end of the tunnel. For the first time, I feel like we are winning the battle.

I'm writing this to give hope to those who choose to stay with their beloved ace.

I envy & feel sorry for you @ the same time. So, are you saying that you're becoming asexual? After trolling this site for the past several weeks I've come away w/the impression that change & compromise are nearly 100% the responsibility of the sexual partner. Because my partner no longer desires to have sex, I'm just supposed to accept it & live w/it? I truly love my partner, (hence my envy) but I'm not sure I'm willing to shoulder all of the compromise & totally ignore my sexual nature. It's part of who I am & how I was made/programmed. What compromise is an asexual partner expected to make?

You don't need to feel sorry for those of us who decide to stay with our asexual partners. We aren't becoming asexual (that's not possible as it is just who you are or aren't)...some partners choose celibacy, but not all. The compromise is rarely if ever 100% on the sexual partner. For example, my husband compromised 100% on his part and had sexual relations with me for over 25 years. It just so happens that at this time, I am choosing to do the bigger portion of the compromise. Obviously I can't ignore my sexual nature and when I am upset my husband doesn't walk away from me, he takes responsibility for contributing to that sadness.

You only have to accept it and live with it if you choose that. There is no formula for compromise, it is what two people who want to be together decide will work for them. The expectations are usually what kill a relationship...love is revealed in the efforts made by the person claiming to love, not in measuring the returns they receive by claiming to love someone.

It is really up to you to decide if you can be happy without sexual interaction (some sexual people find they can be). There is nothing wrong with breaking up because you can't be happy without sex...it's probably more wrong to stay actually.

[Raniiyya]

I pray I will reach this sort of zen at some point...I pray that I lose hope and become free...

[stillAboy]

waiting to reach some form of happiness that lasts me through the horniness. Keep on having to psych myself to accept the fact and try to change.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

waiting to reach some form of happiness that lasts me through the horniness. Keep on having to psych myself to accept the fact and try to change.

If you're really in such a state of unhappiness, "accepting the change" may be counterproductive.

Your long-term happiness - and hers - will likely be negatively impacted if either of you decide to "settle" and compromise beyond what either of you are prepared to comfortably accept.

"Sacrifice" in a relationship is a construct that modern fiction (an evolution from the chivalric concept of courtly love) has created for us, and one where modern society seems to encourage it. Unrequited love - in the long term - is frustrating and not healthy. Neither you nor her should feel pressured to have to accept (or "settle for") less than either of you feel that you deserve. If this means that you and her go your separate ways, I would encourage that you collectively find a way to do it now, when you still have positive feelings for one another, before frustration turns what you have now into something far different (and possibly very ugly).

In my opinion, it is far better to accept that sometimes, things just aren't meant to be - despite your (and her) best intentions. Sometimes, it's better for everyone to accept and understand that friendship is probably a better "fit" than for one (or both) partners to try to force something to work out.

Yes, healthy relationships take work, but only as much as each partner is prepared to commit to it. When one or the other expects more of a commitment than the other is prepared to invest, that's usually the time where you need to stop everything, step back and reassess.

There's no shame in saying, "Maybe we're better friends than lovers."

I've done it. It may be hard to do in the heat of the moment (and is it ever), but if that is truly the best fit for the two of you, once the initial pain has passed, both of you will come to realize that.

Sometimes, it really is better to accept that things aren't always going to work out the way you wanted them to, and just move on.

[Guest]

I think I have turned a corner....gone to the next stage, so to speak, in my relationship with my ace wife.

This is indeed good news but I'm a bit nervous and being cautious. I'm trying not to get too excited about it because I think more time (and mental effort) needs to occur before I know that if where I'm at now is going to be long term. I still worry a bit that my "dark passenger" will still pounce on me any minute. That's why I am hesitant of even posting this.

But! I think I have finally really accepted my wife being ace and that our life without sexual intimacy is a reality and that it is still good...and that everything will be okay. I am becoming happy with it. Of course, I still wish I could still have sexual intimacy with my wife, but I no longer am letting it consume me. I'm letting it go. By being accepting of it and being happier with it...my wife is becoming happier.

I have felt myself "turning the corner" over the past few months, but over the past few weeks I have been in a really good place. Feeling good has never lasted this long. I have become not so dependent on sexual intimacy. This time feels different than the previous short spans of feeling good.

After twenty years of struggling and being confused, and then another three of more struggle but working hard and trying to understand since I found AVEN, I think I finally am seeing light at the end of the tunnel. For the first time, I feel like we are winning the battle.

I'm writing this to give hope to those who choose to stay with their beloved ace.

I envy & feel sorry for you @ the same time. So, are you saying that you're becoming asexual? After trolling this site for the past several weeks I've come away w/the impression that change & compromise are nearly 100% the responsibility of the sexual partner. Because my partner no longer desires to have sex, I'm just supposed to accept it & live w/it? I truly love my partner, (hence my envy) but I'm not sure I'm willing to shoulder all of the compromise & totally ignore my sexual nature. It's part of who I am & how I was made/programmed. What compromise is an asexual partner expected to make?

You can't "become asexual" by being in a relationship with one. Some people do find sex isn't as needed as they thought, some do not. And neither party is expected to compromise more than they wish to. In my relationship, you could probably say as the asexual I compromise the most if we go solely off who is closer to their "ideal". I end up having sex more days than not, but I am often left touch starved due to no non-sexual physical affection. But, that is my choice. If I were truly unhappy with his needs, I would leave. If my lack of ability to have sexual desire or need for breaks at times made my partner unhappy, he is free to leave. If no middle ground was reachable because no matter what one of us would be miserable, either of us could leave. Just like any other major incompatibility.

A relationship is not a prison, we are not chained to someone for life, no matter how miserable they make us. Those who reach a workable compromise do so because they find a way for both to be content, even if ideals are not met. The asexual often is left feeling guilty and a fair amount of anxiety about the sexual needs and pain of their partner. The sexual is often left sexually frustrated and feeling undesired due to the lacking component. Neither side has it easy. To find a middle ground where both sides can find happiness is a long and tough road. And not everyone can find that place. Which then it is OK to say "we are too different, I love you, but this isn't working".

What works for one couple won't work for another. Everyone is different. Some sexuals can make celibacy work, some aces can make sex work. Just depends on what people are comfortable with.

[Guest]

I envy & feel sorry for you @ the same time. So, are you saying that you're becoming asexual? After trolling this site for the past several weeks I've come away w/the impression that change & compromise are nearly 100% the responsibility of the sexual partner. Because my partner no longer desires to have sex, I'm just supposed to accept it & live w/it? I truly love my partner, (hence my envy) but I'm not sure I'm willing to shoulder all of the compromise & totally ignore my sexual nature. It's part of who I am & how I was made/programmed. What compromise is an asexual partner expected to make?

We use the word compromise but that's not exactly what it is. It's more like, both sides decide what they can live with, and if there's some overlap, awesome, it may actually work, and if there's no overlap, maybe you should consider friendship. It shouldn't be like negotiating a deal... you know you've come to an agreement when both sides are unhappy. The goal isn't to push each other to their limits. That's one thing that I see from other sexuals, this idea that asexuals should push themselves to have as much sex as they can muster. I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where my partner's goal was to push me right up against the edge of torture. That's messed up.

If you're trying to pick a restaurant with a friend, usually you'll end up throwing out options until you find one you both like. If you have such different food preferences that you literally can't both eat at the same place (you'll only eat at one specific pizzeria and your friend is gluten free), then you probably shouldn't go out to dinner together. It defeats the purpose of dinner if one of you is sitting there starving. And you know what? Just because your friend is gluten free doesn't mean he can't have dinner with anyone... There are other gluten free folks, for one, and there are also people with more flexible diets. On your end, you'll just have dinner with another pizza lover.

Like Feral said above, compromise does not equal suffering.

[Sally]

Serran, on 17 Apr 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

A relationship is not a prison, we are not chained to someone for life, no matter how miserable they make us. Those who reach a workable compromise do so because they find a way for both to be content, even if ideals are not met.

This should be repeated on every thread in For Sexual Partners etc.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Serran, on 17 Apr 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

A relationship is not a prison, we are not chained to someone for life, no matter how miserable they make us. Those who reach a workable compromise do so because they find a way for both to be content, even if ideals are not met.

This should be repeated on every thread in For Sexual Partners etc.

Agreed! :cake:

(in fact, I'm considering adding that to my signature, crediting Serran, of course)

[Earth Sprite]

There's no shame in saying, "Maybe we're better friends than lovers."

I've had another kind of problem. I would have prefered to be friends, but my sexual friend didn´t give any chance for that. She wanted either lover, or nothing.

At those days, I wasn´t aware of my own asexual identity & made a mistake to unconsciously fake my asexual attraction to her as being sexual attraction. The things gone even more wrong, because she was masochist. Because I hadn´t any idea of my own asexuality, I was used for a long time, before that already, to uncosciously fake any type of sexual attraction. So, I must have been giving her untrue signals, that she had interpreted in her own way. I guess that she must have been trying to seek punishment by her "bad" behaviour, I think. Well, that make me thinking, that she must be passive aggressive, because I hadn´t that kind of sexual attraction myself.

There is romantic asexual attraction even now. But not any communication. She needs only lover, or nothing. I haven´t any chance for friendship.

Arrgh ... Sick fuck.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Hey, don't knock us "sick fucks"... my asexual girlfriend is a delightful little masochist, and we have a lot of fun with the stuff we do - after all, BDSM isn't necessarily about sex. It can be, but doesn't need to be. What we do is fundamentally more pure, more real, and more intense to me. What we have is far more meaningful than any sexual relationship I've ever had.

Funny how life is, sometimes. :)

[Earth Sprite]

Hey, don't knock us "sick fucks"... my asexual girlfriend is a delightful little masochist, and we have a lot of fun with the stuff we do - after all, BDSM isn't necessarily about sex. It can be, but doesn't need to be. What we do is fundamentally more pure, more real, and more intense to me. What we have is far more meaningful than any sexual relationship I've ever had.

Funny how life is, sometimes. :)

Hey man, wasn´t knocking you, but our situation.

And our situation isn´t funny, but sick fuck. For me it´s living without communication, living without friendship & living without farewell. She has her own oblivion, that anyone cannot teleporter.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Hey, don't knock us "sick fucks"... my asexual girlfriend is a delightful little masochist, and we have a lot of fun with the stuff we do - after all, BDSM isn't necessarily about sex. It can be, but doesn't need to be. What we do is fundamentally more pure, more real, and more intense to me. What we have is far more meaningful than any sexual relationship I've ever had.

Funny how life is, sometimes. :)

Hey man, wasn´t knocking you, but our situation.

And our situation isn´t funny, but sick fuck. For me it´s living without communication, living without friendship & living without farewell. She has her own oblivion, that anyone cannot teleporter.

Man, I feel your pain. I've had every relationship (prior to this one) break down due to a fundamental lack of communication. If she chooses not to communicate, you're stuck in Limbo - and I've been there. It sucks. Bigtime.

If you like to read, I'd recommend "Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence" by Esther Perel. That may help. It's a very good read. :)

[Earth Sprite]

Hey, don't knock us "sick fucks"... my asexual girlfriend is a delightful little masochist, and we have a lot of fun with the stuff we do - after all, BDSM isn't necessarily about sex. It can be, but doesn't need to be. What we do is fundamentally more pure, more real, and more intense to me. What we have is far more meaningful than any sexual relationship I've ever had.

Funny how life is, sometimes. :)

Hey man, wasn´t knocking you, but our situation.

And our situation isn´t funny, but sick fuck. For me it´s living without communication, living without friendship & living without farewell. She has her own oblivion, that anyone cannot teleporter.

Man, I feel your pain. I've had every relationship (prior to this one) break down due to a fundamental lack of communication. If she chooses not to communicate, you're stuck in Limbo - and I've been there. It sucks. Bigtime.

If you like to read, I'd recommend "Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence" by Esther Perel. That may help. It's a very good read. :)

Thank you.

I'm very suspicious, that I ever wanted to read any more books about sexual excitement of any kind.

But I will think of that possibility, because of the possible contribution for the serious lack of the communicative dimension. ... Arrgh ... this really is sick fuck.

[Guest]

I envy & feel sorry for you @ the same time. So, are you saying that you're becoming asexual? After trolling this site for the past several weeks I've come away w/the impression that change & compromise are nearly 100% the responsibility of the sexual partner. Because my partner no longer desires to have sex, I'm just supposed to accept it & live w/it? I truly love my partner, (hence my envy) but I'm not sure I'm willing to shoulder all of the compromise & totally ignore my sexual nature. It's part of who I am & how I was made/programmed. What compromise is an asexual partner expected to make?

We use the word compromise but that's not exactly what it is. It's more like, both sides decide what they can live with, and if there's some overlap, awesome, it may actually work, and if there's no overlap, maybe you should consider friendship. It shouldn't be like negotiating a deal... you know you've come to an agreement when both sides are unhappy. The goal isn't to push each other to their limits. That's one thing that I see from other sexuals, this idea that asexuals should push themselves to have as much sex as they can muster. I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where my partner's goal was to push me right up against the edge of torture. That's messed up.

If you're trying to pick a restaurant with a friend, usually you'll end up throwing out options until you find one you both like. If you have such different food preferences that you literally can't both eat at the same place (you'll only eat at one specific pizzeria and your friend is gluten free), then you probably shouldn't go out to dinner together. It defeats the purpose of dinner if one of you is sitting there starving. And you know what? Just because your friend is gluten free doesn't mean he can't have dinner with anyone... There are other gluten free folks, for one, and there are also people with more flexible diets. On your end, you'll just have dinner with another pizza lover.

Like Feral said above, compromise does not equal suffering.

Yeah. Pretty much. With us, it was he threw out the minimum he could be happy with and I decided if I could handle that or if it would make me constantly annoyed at having to do something I don't want, it ended up being too low so he said he needed X more and we had to figure out if that worked too. Just like any compromise about a difference in a relationship, it's often not exactly a "fair" middle ground if you're looking at it on paper. But, as long as neither side is miserable inside the relationship, it is a working compromise. If either or both are miserable, it's not working.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Hey, don't knock us "sick fucks"... my asexual girlfriend is a delightful little masochist, and we have a lot of fun with the stuff we do - after all, BDSM isn't necessarily about sex. It can be, but doesn't need to be. What we do is fundamentally more pure, more real, and more intense to me. What we have is far more meaningful than any sexual relationship I've ever had.

Funny how life is, sometimes. :)

Hey man, wasn´t knocking you, but our situation.

And our situation isn´t funny, but sick fuck. For me it´s living without communication, living without friendship & living without farewell. She has her own oblivion, that anyone cannot teleporter.

Man, I feel your pain. I've had every relationship (prior to this one) break down due to a fundamental lack of communication. If she chooses not to communicate, you're stuck in Limbo - and I've been there. It sucks. Bigtime.

If you like to read, I'd recommend "Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence" by Esther Perel. That may help. It's a very good read. :)

Thank you.

I'm very suspicious, that I ever wanted to read any more books about sexual excitement of any kind.

But I will think of that possibility, because of the possible contribution for the serious lack of the communicative dimension. ... Arrgh ... this really is sick fuck.

Don't let the book title fool you. It's not about sexual excitement. Here is a good review of the book.

[Percivel]

No, I am not becoming asexual. Though for the first time, I actually wish I was. I have gotten a pretty good handle on my sex drive...but it is still there. I see it as kind of like controlling the gas pedal on the car. When I entertain sex expectations and sexual thoughts, that's when it gets hard to manage.

I have not had to give up sex. My wife provides fairly regularly. What is changing is my attitude about our sexual/intimacy relationship. I was willing to continue living being miserable half the time and letting my wife be miserable half the time. I realized that that was not fair to my wife. When my wife gets miserable it's mostly because I got miserable. I needed to change. I needed to be happy so she would be happy all the time.

I had to let go of the expectations. My expectations were a big source of my feeling crappy. I wasn't getting the intimacy and sex that I wanted and how I wanted it. It was affecting my mood, my thoughts, my feelings, my relationship with my wife, my relationship with my kids. I often got depressed and generally didn't feel like doing much with anybody. I had closed myself in. Basically, I was being a big sourpuss. I had to let those expectations go! It has taken years to do. I'm still working at it. But life is better. I sleep better. I genuinely smile and feel happy most of the time. I genuinely get excited around my wife....all the time, not just some of the time. We love being together again! Even though we haven't talked about it, she knows I have changed and she is responding as well. We often catch eyes and just smile...and start giggling. She knows. We don't need to talk about it.

I feel like I have risen from the dead! I feel like my wife and I are newlyweds again!

In the past few weeks I have had two what I used to call dark nights. You know what they are. Well, these last two were a piece of cake! They weren't even dark nights, They were barely even cloudy nights. I don't think I have suddenly entered the Land of Oz and I know I will have a cloudy day from time to time, but life is good because my wife is happy again.

Both my wife and I have done the work and compromising in our relationship. Often it felt like I was doing it all...but that simply was not the case. My wife would wholly agree with me.

[Earth Sprite]

But! I think I have finally really accepted my wife being ace and that our life without sexual intimacy is a reality and that it is still good...and that everything will be okay. I am becoming happy with it. Of course, I still wish I could still have sexual intimacy with my wife, but I no longer am letting it consume me. I'm letting it go. By being accepting of it and being happier with it...my wife is becoming happier.

[...]

I'm writing this to give hope to those who choose to stay with their beloved ace.

These are kind and beautiful words. I think, you succeeded in to give hope for many. That isn´t a good thing itself, in any case, however. But for those, who can both give and receive love, the hope will be strengthening.

Kind regards,

Earth Sprite

[HugsandPlugs]

[...]

I'm writing this to give hope to those who choose to stay with their beloved ace.

I just wanted to let you know Percivel that you have given me a fair amount of hope that My girlfriend and I can make this work. I've read posts you've written to others and you've actually replied to a post of mine, and unlike so many of the posts on here that make me terrified and hurt [i know that's no ones intention with posting but I'm very much an emotional sponge so it just ends up with me in a depressive tailspin] yours are so positive. Not always the post, sometimes they are painful, but the overall message you convey is always one of true hope, passion, and love. It's awesome that you can use your difficult experience to inspire others to push themselves to a place of understanding and peace.

I also wanted to ask a question of you, (I hope you don't mind a little story to go along with it cause it needs some background)

Like many other ace/sexual couples I've seen on here, my Ace didn't know she was and ace until recently, after we had been together a while. We've been together for almost 2 years now and after the first few months of our relationship things went south. we fought a lot, we got angry and honestly if either of us had looked at things objectively we would most likely not be together. I was going through a dark time in my life after losing my grandfather, while she was going through family troubles. The differences we had with sex just compounded everything. Some how we managed to stick through it. She helped me get clean (actually a year clean tomorrow!) While I, being my extremely emotional self, helped her build a door in the walls she has and helped her open up and express herself. Her and I are compatible on so many levels and I've spent so many nights wondering why it has to be so hard. Hating myself for everything I've ever said in anger, wishing I could understand her, wanting nothing but to have things just be easy. I have always known that we are great together, and for the most part, we are, we just have to work through all of this together.

It's more just, how do you deal with your "cloudy nights?" Obviously it's a personal thing and I need to find something that works for me, but just some tips, some things to try. I just want to try to get ahead of my own mind. I've had a few dark nights since she told me a week or so ago, I know that it comes with the territory, I just want to try to stop them before they eat me, before I let them hurt my relationship, before I let them hurt her.

Anyway, thank you for sharing this, and thank you for being a ray of hope for all of us sexuals trying to understand our aces.

Best of luck with everything!

[Percivel]

Earth Sprite and Hugs...Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate them.

I found nothing specific or regular that got me through my dark nights. My thoughts were always to ride them out and pray I fall asleep. Sometimes I would move to the couch to sleep. Sometimes i would drink wine, beer or whiskey til I couldn't stay awake anymore. Sometimes I would lie on the bedroom floor and cry and sob. I often talked to myself like Gollum in Lord of the Rings. Sometimes I would yell and scream at myself in my head. Sometimes I would pray and pray and pray. Sometimes I would fall asleep in an hour. Sometimes it took four hours to fall asleep. Nights were always the hardest part of the day...tired, alone with my thoughts and feelings...while my wife lay beside me asleep...my dark passenger would come out with all his vengeance and terrorize me.

For the longest time I wanted to move to a different bedroom. I never did because I wanted to wait til all the kids moved out of the house. I also knew it would deeply sadden my wife if I slept in another room. Three of my kids are still at home. But now, I don't think I will need to move my sleeping quarters...things are much better and I'm pretty sure my dark passenger is locked up.

There are two things that helped me get to point I am at now. Well, three...one being my very loving wife.

The second thing is self-control. I was a coach for twelve years and also worked with adults with developmental disabilities and mental health diagnosis for ten years. My experiences helped me form my understanding and efforts to address my mixed marriage. The first twenty years of our marriage, however, I spent in turmoil just trying to figure out what was going on with the sex and intimacy issues my wife and I had. Whence I found Aven, I learned what we were facing. That alone was a big step. The next three years was then spent trying to resolve the problems.

It became clear to me that my wife could not change. She could try to be understanding and she could be loving in her own way and do what she was able...but, she could not change. I resolved that I had to change. While trying to change, I excepted that both my wife and I will have a certain amount of suffering that we will just have to deal with. Even though I felt like I was doing the brunt of the suffering, I knew she was equally suffering but in a different way.

I had to find a way to gain control of my thoughts...my feelings...and my body. I think the first big step I took was something that happened on our anniversary last year. I planned out the day. After a nice breakfast out, I took my wife to Niagara Falls. We had been there several times but I had a special plan this time. After viewing the powerful falls, we went to a quiet place in the park and I sat her down on a large boulder in the grass. I pulled out a love letter I wrote to her and read it aloud. I then sang aloud to her a love song I had been memorizing the past two weeks. The song was "Dulcinea" from Don Quixote. This was very embarrassing for me as I have a tremendously awful singing voice. I also brought along a midevel sword that I placed in her hands as I knelt before her and asked her to place the sword across my shoulder and claim me as her beloved knight. This she sheepishly did.

What we did next was the most important. I took my wife to a bridge overlooking the river rapids just before the water went over the falls. Out of my pocket I pulled two little plastic toy monster guys along with two baggies. I explained to my wife that the monsters represented our torments (my dark passenger, her guilt and sorrow). I gave her one of the little monsters and a baggie. We each placed our own monster into its baggie, proclaimed that they will be gone from us forever, and we tossed them into the river rapids and watched them float away over the falls never to be seen again. As the monsters traveled through the rapids they bounced up and down, tossed this way and that, seemingly trying to escape their doom. I, scared yet hopeful, cried tears as my wife and I hugged each other and held each other tight.

My wife did not truly understand the significance of that day. In fact, she found the whole thing to be silly and embarrassing as she is not very sentimental. But she knew it meant a lot to me. With all my might, I was determined to rid us of our monsters and our sufferings. Even though symbolic, this was the beginning of a concerted war on our torments. The decision has been made.

Self control. They say that the game of baseball is ninety percent above the shoulders. More than all the team sports, baseball is a head game. It takes plenty of physical skill but even more mental conditioning to be good at baseball. There is lots of "down" time in baseball. The physical action happens in flashes - the swing of a bat, the dive for a ball, the sliding into second base. The rest of the game is staying focused...controlling the mind. In baseball, negative thoughts are the enemy. When a player thinks negative thoughts, bad things are more likely to happen. If a batter starts to get nervous at the plate and starts worrying about the pitchers curve ball and how he won't be able to hit it...the chances are that he won't hit it. If the batter is confident and imagines how he is going to knock that curve ball out of the park, the likelihood he will hit the ball increases greatly. Why is baseball often a game of rally's? Because when a team starts doing well, the other team starts thinking bad thoughts, lets their nerves gets to them, confidence drops and they start playing poorly while the team that is doing well gains confidence and positive thoughts. When a player thinks negatively, the body responds negatively...and vice-versa. The mind controls the body. All coaches know this.

Also, emotion is not good in baseball. If you look at the players in the dug out during a game, they are mostly somber and stone faced. That is because they are trying to stay focused on what they need to do, thinking positively, and to keep the bad thoughts out. Batting slumps are usually caused by the head. In baseball, control is everything. There is no place for emotion during a baseball game. That is why there are more sports psychologists in baseball than any other sport. There is a book out there called " The Psychology of Baseball" that talks further about all this. It's not a textbook or medical book, it's a sports book that can be applied to pretty much any area of life.

What I learned from coaching and teaching is that we can control our mind. We can control our thoughts and emotions. We can control our bodies. Like learning any new skill it takes time, dedication and practice. We won't suddenly be successful...but little by little we can get there. Children don't see or notice themselves getting bigger or taller. But they do get bigger and taller. Children certainly don't feel themselves growing and getting smarter. But grow they do...and sometimes they even get smarter.

In our business, the business of mixed relationships, I needed to control my thoughts and my emotions. I'm now getting pretty good at catching every negative thought and feeling as soon as it pops in my head, and dismissing it immediately. The longer it stays, the more it festers and gets fed by more thoughts and negativity. The more I control my mind, the better I can control my emotions and my body. By focusing on staying positive and happy, thinking good and happy thoughts - like Peter Pan, I am able to be more positive and happy.

And the more I focus on my wifes' happiness...the more I am happy. The kids and I just celebrated the entire week for my wifes' birthday. We did lots of wonderful things. It was awesome! My wife said it was her best birthday ever!

It's getting warmer here in the north as spring has finally arrived...and that scares me a bit. Summer means clothes will be shed...which is often temptation for wandering eyes. I am, however, confident and positive that I will maintain control...and happiness.

I did not mention how my faith has really helped me get to where I am now. It has helped me the most. I will talk about that in another thread.

[Percivel]

I had kind of a tough night last night. Not long ago it would have been one of those really dark horrible nights. But now it is as if my dark "passenger" has been disarmed. Where in the past he would come at me with all kinds of weapons and torturous devices, last night he again seemed to come at me trying to hit me with just paint sticks. This is my new "dark night" and it's not even really a dark night anymore. I expect that even these will slowly dissipate over time.

I believe the "trigger" for last night was from some earlier negative thoughts and feelings I had about another matter with my wife that I failed to drive from my mind (or speak to my wife about). I allowed these negative thoughts and feelings to dwarf into negative thoughts and feelings of sex/intimacy. Thus, going to bed in not the best state of mind. I let negativity feed and breed

negativity. Knowing these "triggers" and how I should respond to them is helpful. I first should have communicated the original issue with my wife. That, I believe, would have settled the matter. Since I didn't, I failed to drive the bad thoughts from my mind and replace them with good thoughts.

It seems to me that being the sexual in a mixed relationship needs to be approached very much like an addiction...even though it isn't. Sexual intimacy to sexuals is natural and almost instinctive. It's a powerful natural drive or desire in the mind and body. But curbiing (or re-routing) those drives and desires, as opposed to trying to always satisfy them, seems like trying to stop an addiction. I am hopeful that when new practices or habits are formed, that it continues to become much easier in controlling sexual desires and the negativity that arises in many of us sexuals. Also, it seems to me that working on bettering the sexual/intimate relationship of a mixed couple should be priority number one just as focusing on getting rid of an addiction should be for an addict.

If anyone has any thoughts or experience in dealing with addiction...it might be helpful.

[Lady Girl]

I've noticed a couple things in regards to this. I didn't really have a dark passenger with weapons, so much as a felt I was associating with a mob of unsavory characters. I would entertain a negative feeling or thought, and the next thing I knew I was knee deep in a gang of thugs in a dirty run down alley. Once it started, there was no limit to the negative voices coming at me (negative self talk basically) and all the pathetic repeat messages they always delivered..."he doesn't really love you, how can he just let you feel this way, why doesn't he do what he should, maybe you should leave," and on and on. Anyway, it's quite similar to your analogy. It's destructive, unhealthy, and often promotes hurtful attitudes towards our partner.

I used to often feel that any unpleasant situation wouldn't be so bad, "if only we had a better sex life." Well, that assertion could actually go either way, and is just kind of useless, because we don't. So it probably makes more sense as you assessed, to just make the situation not so bad in another way. We could either talk about it a little, or as is usually the case, do what we can in regards to it and life goes on.

Part of overcoming addiction for me is a matter of seeing myself as a non smoker. I'm not quite there yet (cause I still use ecigs), but I haven't had a cigarette in over two years. Pretty soon I'll be at 0 nicotine as well. They say if you give something up, you need to fill the void with something else. If I keep using ecigs when I reach 0 nicotine, so be it. I guess I'm replacing the nicotine with yummy flavors. In regards to sex, I've already noticed an increase in daily awesome hugs, some cuddling, and in general, a happier way of relating. We don't fight like we used to, and that means more happiness. Our attempt at what is traditionally thought of as a healthy fulfilling relationship that involves sex is being replaced with a non traditional healthy fulfilling relationship that doesn't involve sex. Positive interaction is filling the void. Picturing myself as a happy person without sex but with my awesome husband definitely helps me.

[Percivel]

Yes, negative self talk...that's what it basically is. And it brings out whoppers of negative feelings!

I almost forgot..I am an addict....I smoke cigarettes, too. Not ready to quit yet, though.

[nansialex]

I've been reading on this site for several weeks now, and just got the nerve to post a couple of days ago. I'm hoping to do away with the "dark nights." But I've been living on what someone (Sally, I think) called "anger mountain" for so long (I've been with my partner since 1980, and living together as a couple since 1984)...feeling like this is just...I should be able to deal with this better than I have done. I'm ridiculous. It's not like I go around slamming doors and grimacing all the time either. We haven't had sex or anything approximating it in 10 years and I haven't asked about it either. I couldn't stand seeing her come up with excuses and the deer in headlights look, so I just shut-up and backed off. The feelings tend to show up when there's a lot of stress about "stuff" in general. The negative self-talk starts up and I end up in the car or the bathroom just shaking and crying. The thing is - I love my partner. I LIKE her. We have a lot in common and a lot that's complementary to each other. Sex is the only thing we're poles apart on. Also, I'm naturally monogamous. The thought of being with somebody else, whether she knew about it or not, makes me physically ill. When I committed to her I committed for the life-long haul. I just...I need to find a way to pull this all into perspective, because I'm flat tired of being angry about something that neither of us can change. The postings here give me hope that I can get to that point. I hope so.