I've moved out of the bedroom, and I'm glad

[sasha123]

Where do you go when words don't work? Therapy maybe. Or, you accept things will not change and you decide to take it or leave it. I do not understand the idea of "but everything would be fine if". There is no "if". The "if" exists only in your mind and will never be real.

Yup.

He won't go. He does not think there is a problem

But you do, so whatever action taken -- therapy, leaving the relationship, whatever -- is up to you. That may not be fair, but it's reality.

Down and Agonizer, I hope you don't take badly the comments from some of the people in this forum. Some see situations like this as take it or leave it. They may be right: things will not change externally. We, sexuals who have a hard time accepting this as the external reality, are left with a choice: pack up and leave or go into therapy. Don't forget that this is a primarily a place of support for the asexual community, and represents that point of view.

[Guest]

I'm sexual and I very much believe it's a stay or go decision. I dont really see why that would be an asexual-specific viewpoint.

Not making a choice is still a choice. The act of not acting requires volition.

[Sally]

sasha123, on 07 Apr 2014 - 2:12 PM, said:

Down and Agonizer, I hope you don't take badly the comments from some of the people in this forum. Some see situations like this as take it or leave it. They may be right: things will not change externally. We, sexuals who have a hard time accepting this as the external reality, are left with a choice: pack up and leave or go into therapy. Don't forget that this is a primarily a place of support for the asexual community, and represents that point of view.

This is a section of AVEN that is for both sexuals and asexuals.

I don't see therapy as a choice, because therapy is not going to work out the difference in feelings about sex. What I do see as a choice is deal with your partner as they are, or leave. That's it, and that applies to both sexual and asexual.

[Agonizer]

I've just come back and re-read this thread, checking for insights I had overlooked at first or had since forgotten. I appreciate all the posts -- they really do help!

I've been back in the bedroom for a couple of months. We've also talked about our feelings -- it went the way it's gone the past few times. I tried to describe how it feels to not have any chemistry with someone I'm supposed to be in love with. She seemed to get it and was very sympathetic and sweet, but I think she was (and continues to be) too optimistic about how much she is willing/able to compromise. Nothing really has changed since.

I have resolved that I really need to go to a counselor on my own. Because of my resentment and my fear of rejection,- I have not been making any attempt to be intimate with her anymore, and of course she has no reason to. I need to do something to break out of this stalemate.

I also appreciate the multiple people who said, in so many words, "Tell her you've been pretending to be happy in the relationship." I am such a martyr in this area. I can't bear for anyone to feel sad or guilty on my account. I know I need to treat my wife like an adult who can handle the truth. That will be part of what I discuss with my counselor!

[Down in Texas]

Best of Luck to you. I understand how you feel. For myself I do not think counseling would help me I have talked to my GYN a number of times in the past. He suggested two book for me to read both of which I did read. At the time my GYN had no idea what I was telling him and thought that I was the problem. Thus suggesting the books that he did. After over fifteen years now just last year my GYN walked in and apologized for not understanding what I had been trying to explain to him for all these years. He told me that Asexuality had just hit their medical journals and he sat and ask me questions trying to get a clearer picture of what he had read. I cried because he finally understood. He offered me Anti-depressants and after a few different ones ( which seemed to only make thing worse for me) I told him there was not a pill made that could help what was wrong.

I wish you well with the counseling just make sure that you find one that knows about Asexuality or you may just be spinning your wheels and blowing your money. God Bless and Best of Luck.

[Agonizer]

Down: I'm really sorry for what you experienced. Thanks very much for your candor, advice and encouragement.

[Aisntllecxtual]

Completely side stepping the issue, but have you spoken to a doctor about your snoring? You might have sleep apnea which can cause some problems further on as you age. If so you can get some minor surgery to open your pathways or a breathing mask for sleeping in. You should definitely talk to you wife about the intimacy and emotional issues, but I don't think you should overlook the possible health issue. Besides, its hard to be intimate in bed when you gotta wear a thing hooked up to your face when you sleep. My Dad slept in a separate bed due to my Mom's snoring until she got her breathing apparatus.

And sleep apnea/excessive snoring can be caused by diet and obesity. I know I used to snore like a demon years ago (and if I'm really tired, my girl tells me that I saw logs like a pro), but I've found I do that less than I used to since losing about 40 lbs. Of course, I generally sleep better, too, so there's a dual benefit to that.

Drinking will also contribute to snoring but that is not the issue here.

I guess I am about the only one here that does not read manipulation into his remarks. Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding or comprehension.

I even compared our sexual disparity to his drinking by asking him " if the refrigerator was full of nice cold beer and you knew it was in there yet you could not get the door open and you were forced to drink water how would you feel knowing that cold beer was sitting just inches out of reach?" He never answered.

I have come to this conversation more than six months late - nothing I will say will be taken as advice (so, I don't give any) or perhaps ever read on the network. Anyway, here goes, specifically, in regard to the statement, "Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding and comprehension." Boy, Down in Texas, isn't that the truth! I talked so much to my wife about my asexuality, my discovery. I did my best to allay any insecurities she had ("it wasn't her, it was me" was of course predictably part of the conversation but so much more). I reached deep within myself and shared at a level that I had never shared with anybody. It was all for naught and eventually the honesty was paid in terms most degrading, led to being raped. My wife said all of the previous talk regarding my new found orientation, the profoundness of feeling, she did not believe, and that, absolutely unfathomably, if I had been indirect, she would have understood. Denial, repression, delusion make for a very strong elixir - stubbornly impenetrable to even the most ardent efforts to break through the barriers. What good is honesty, heartfelt expression, when confronted with this formidable self-protecting trinity I imploringly ask?

[Down in Texas]

Completely side stepping the issue, but have you spoken to a doctor about your snoring? You might have sleep apnea which can cause some problems further on as you age. If so you can get some minor surgery to open your pathways or a breathing mask for sleeping in. You should definitely talk to you wife about the intimacy and emotional issues, but I don't think you should overlook the possible health issue. Besides, its hard to be intimate in bed when you gotta wear a thing hooked up to your face when you sleep. My Dad slept in a separate bed due to my Mom's snoring until she got her breathing apparatus.

And sleep apnea/excessive snoring can be caused by diet and obesity. I know I used to snore like a demon years ago (and if I'm really tired, my girl tells me that I saw logs like a pro), but I've found I do that less than I used to since losing about 40 lbs. Of course, I generally sleep better, too, so there's a dual benefit to that.

Drinking will also contribute to snoring but that is not the issue here.

I guess I am about the only one here that does not read manipulation into his remarks. Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding or comprehension.

I even compared our sexual disparity to his drinking by asking him " if the refrigerator was full of nice cold beer and you knew it was in there yet you could not get the door open and you were forced to drink water how would you feel knowing that cold beer was sitting just inches out of reach?" He never answered.

I have come to this conversation more than six months late - nothing I will say will be taken as advice (so, I don't give any) or perhaps ever read on the network. Anyway, here goes, specifically, in regard to the statement, "Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding and comprehension." Boy, Down in Texas, isn't that the truth! I talked so much to my wife about my asexuality, my discovery. I did my best to allay any insecurities she had ("it wasn't her, it was me" was of course predictably part of the conversation but so much more). I reached deep within myself and shared at a level that I had never shared with anybody. It was all for naught and eventually the honesty was paid in terms most degrading, led to being raped. My wife said all of the previous talk regarding my new found orientation, the profoundness of feeling, she did not believe, and that, absolutely unfathomably, if I had been indirect, she would have understood. Denial, repression, delusion make for a very strong elixir - stubbornly impenetrable to even the most ardent efforts to break through the barriers. What good is honesty, heartfelt expression, when confronted with this formidable self-protecting trinity I imploringly ask?

Aisntllecxtual - mainly I just wanted you to know I have read your post. I am sorry your spouse was not more understanding. It may seem hard to some that have read more of my post to comprehend that I do understand Asexuality better than they may think. I was married for over 38 years before I learned about Asexuality, most of my remarks come from pre Asexual findings. My preAsexuality days were the majority of my marrital years, while searching for knowledge and understanding of what was going on in my marriage I read many books none addressing Asexuality. The problem is not that I do not now understand what is going on it is more that I feel that if you have entered into a committed relationship and there is a problem that both parties need to make SOME concessions toward a compromise. In my situation when we talk (after months maybe years between breakdowns) my husband refuses to speak. I begged for input trying to understand his feelings and all I got/get is "I don't know" or "I don't remember". Even before I knew of Asexuality I would tell him that it was as if he had a tower of bricks around himself that prevented anyone from getting through. I would beg for him to not add another layer of bricks when we talked, that what I wanted more than anything was for him to give me a crack to crawl through. I was willing to come to him I was not asking him to leave his safety just let me in to share his space not always leave me out by his self entertainment. He did not nor does he now have any friends. He is and has always been content to entertain himself. I did not know this when I married him. He is beginning to understand some things but still acts more like a room mate or sibling with the exception that we sleep in the same bed. After years of shutting me out when he now make attempts at being intimate it feels hallow and I find it hard to respond in the same way that I had years ago which is what he now expects and can't understand why things have changed so much.

If you do not mind I do have a couple of questions if you feel like answering. How long have you been married and how long have you known about your Asexuality? Also how much did you expect your spouse to give up and how much were you willing to give in return?

[Aisntllecxtual]

Completely side stepping the issue, but have you spoken to a doctor about your snoring? You might have sleep apnea which can cause some problems further on as you age. If so you can get some minor surgery to open your pathways or a breathing mask for sleeping in. You should definitely talk to you wife about the intimacy and emotional issues, but I don't think you should overlook the possible health issue. Besides, its hard to be intimate in bed when you gotta wear a thing hooked up to your face when you sleep. My Dad slept in a separate bed due to my Mom's snoring until she got her breathing apparatus.

And sleep apnea/excessive snoring can be caused by diet and obesity. I know I used to snore like a demon years ago (and if I'm really tired, my girl tells me that I saw logs like a pro), but I've found I do that less than I used to since losing about 40 lbs. Of course, I generally sleep better, too, so there's a dual benefit to that.

Drinking will also contribute to snoring but that is not the issue here.

I guess I am about the only one here that does not read manipulation into his remarks. Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding or comprehension.

I even compared our sexual disparity to his drinking by asking him " if the refrigerator was full of nice cold beer and you knew it was in there yet you could not get the door open and you were forced to drink water how would you feel knowing that cold beer was sitting just inches out of reach?" He never answered.

I have come to this conversation more than six months late - nothing I will say will be taken as advice (so, I don't give any) or perhaps ever read on the network. Anyway, here goes, specifically, in regard to the statement, "Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding and comprehension." Boy, Down in Texas, isn't that the truth! I talked so much to my wife about my asexuality, my discovery. I did my best to allay any insecurities she had ("it wasn't her, it was me" was of course predictably part of the conversation but so much more). I reached deep within myself and shared at a level that I had never shared with anybody. It was all for naught and eventually the honesty was paid in terms most degrading, led to being raped. My wife said all of the previous talk regarding my new found orientation, the profoundness of feeling, she did not believe, and that, absolutely unfathomably, if I had been indirect, she would have understood. Denial, repression, delusion make for a very strong elixir - stubbornly impenetrable to even the most ardent efforts to break through the barriers. What good is honesty, heartfelt expression, when confronted with this formidable self-protecting trinity I imploringly ask?

Aisntllecxtual - mainly I just wanted you to know I have read your post. I am sorry your spouse was not more understanding. It may seem hard to some that have read more of my post to comprehend that I do understand Asexuality better than they may think. I was married for over 38 years before I learned about Asexuality, most of my remarks come from pre Asexual findings. My preAsexuality days were the majority of my marrital years, while searching for knowledge and understanding of what was going on in my marriage I read many books none addressing Asexuality. The problem is not that I do not now understand what is going on it is more that I feel that if you have entered into a committed relationship and there is a problem that both parties need to make SOME concessions toward a compromise. In my situation when we talk (after months maybe years between breakdowns) my husband refuses to speak. I begged for input trying to understand his feelings and all I got/get is "I don't know" or "I don't remember". Even before I knew of Asexuality I would tell him that it was as if he had a tower of bricks around himself that prevented anyone from getting through. I would beg for him to not add another layer of bricks when we talked, that what I wanted more than anything was for him to give me a crack to crawl through. I was willing to come to him I was not asking him to leave his safety just let me in to share his space not always leave me out by his self entertainment. He did not nor does he now have any friends. He is and has always been content to entertain himself. I did not know this when I married him. He is beginning to understand some things but still acts more like a room mate or sibling with the exception that we sleep in the same bed. After years of shutting me out when he now make attempts at being intimate it feels hallow and I find it hard to respond in the same way that I had years ago which is what he now expects and can't understand why things have changed so much.

If you do not mind I do have a couple of questions if you feel like answering. How long have you been married and how long have you known about your Asexuality? Also how much did you expect your spouse to give up and how much were you willing to give in return?

Down in Texas, thank you for responding. I think we can understand each other quite well despite being so different - opposite - in orientation. I read quite a few of your posts on the network. Although I have a different sensitivity, empathy, that color my perspectives, I respect your views/feelings because of their directness, openness, genuineness. I think we can relate well because we value so highly the need for communication - the fervent desire to understand and comprehend each others worlds.

I don't mind at all answering your questions. I have been married for a little over 5 years. I have known about my asexuality for a little over two and a half years now. I expected it to be a sexless marriage and I thought my spouse-to-be at the time would be satisfied with the same. How naive I was! Have you read other posts of mine here on AVEN. I go into quite extensive detail. It would give you a very good perspective. But, suffice to say, I told my spouse that I didn't have much interest in sex (this was communicated a month or two before marriage, and, by the way, we never had premarital sex and we did have some experience sleeping in the same bed) and she also reflected this lack of desire in herself. My statement obviously indicates I had a sense of myself back then not too long ago; I was on the verge of realizing my asexuality; it was, though, only in the pressure cooker of sexual expectation that my marriage became did the push on the subterranean lid occur, perhaps needed, in bringing my asexual nature to consciousness. One of the red flags that I ignored was her desire for a child. I did not have such a desire and communicated this disinterest repeatedly. Much talk about compromise in relationships... Well, I made the mistake of breaking down and compromising and saying something to the effect, "perhaps, in your eyes I might come to appreciate having a child." And, in hindsight, I really do think I believed what I said, but I think it was conditioned (unsaid): "perhaps..." as long as the relationship continues as a healthy one. It did not continue as a healthy one... no child sadly (because I sincerely wish her happiness) and thankfully. As far as the red flag, well, aren't there a lot of women who wish children but don't have much interest in sex? You see, it is easier for me to think I was not delusional. The other red flag I remember was when I and my then girlfriend went to visit my aunt at her camp. We were walking through her place and came across one bedroom. She beckoned to the bed and seemingly jokingly (maybe not) about us crawling in (with the implication of having sex). Regardless of the lack of seriousness, which I partly sensed, I was nevertheless uneasy and tried to rush her on past the room.

My marriage is extremely dysfunctional, and - I am sure unsurprising to you from what you have experienced and know about asexuality - in my mind, not because it is sexless, but because my wife adamantly refuses (in broach, breaks down and cries in angry fits) to engage in any conversation that deals with how I truly feel - that unavoidably concerns my sexual orientation. She always says "why can't you say something nice," and/or "why do you have to be so negative" in these emotional outbursts. She has all but told me she would rather have me lie to her rather than tell her the truth if the truth will hurt her. She has made it more and more clear that she doesn't wish me to be on AVEN. Jealousy is rearing its ugly paranoid head; she just likened AVEN yesterday as being no different than a dating website. She says that after being on AVEN I become worse to her. Absolutely not true in my mind. If it wasn't for AVEN, I think I would explode from the repression and from her beckoning me into her delusion that the marriage at base is solid. By the way, after I realized I was asexual and registered on AVEN, I tried to enlist her to come on to the network to expand understanding, to learn. She did not wish this. Just last night, I mentioned how you wished your husband would open up and communicate why he was feeling what he was feeling. Her answer was that you and your husband are not us. Unbelievably, in effect, what she is saying in regard to us is that open honest communication is a dead-end - it leads nowhere but hurt. Well, I'm hurt. This relationship is a dead-end, and for my own sanity I must put it out of its misery.

Sorry for the long post Down in Texas, but I also notice your posts are lengthy as well - love it, another wordy windbag in arms. I look forward to more correspondence. And, by the way, I have questions for you as well - in my next post, OK?

[Sally]

Aisn -- I wonder if your wife is upset because she feels you are "talking" to a whole bunch of other people about her and your marriage. That may not feel comfortable to her.

[Elaine Watson]

Hey man, you could also have her be in contact with a converted asexual, and have them talk about it. A person who used to be sexual but is asexual now will understand what you mean by it feeling lacking, and can explain to your wife how it feels. I sincerely believe that if you do it by going against her, it will only drive you apart, and if you try to do it with her - which means either telling her to notice the absent part as an experiment; or having her talk to someone who can explain it better - you will be much more successful, with a much lesser risk

If you know no converts here, I offer myself. Feel free to decline, though.

Good luck!

[Aisntllecxtual]

sally2, the answer to your question is an unequivocal no. I have inquired that is why I know. She feels my venting (on AVEN, or, indeed, genuinely expressing how I am, how I feel to her) only make matters worse, aggravates everything. She also has a gross distortion of AVEN as a pick-up website. I think the latter notion could easily be disabused if she would be willing herself what to find out what AVEN is (in other words, her impression is colored by ignorance.

With that said, I have communicated things on this network that I have never communicated to anyone in my life, and, if I might venture a conjecture here, I think this is the case for many members on this network (feeling - hopefully, fact - of anonymity and an atmosphere of nonjudgmental openness does wonders in this regard). I wish I could be so open to my wife (I reference you to what I wrote above), a person I should be intimate with, but this is not the way of the world, life public, and, indeed, life private, it is not sadly reality. It is the lament of a dreamer, of an idealist. Repression of feelings, expression, deception, manipulation, alienation, exploitation... This is the sea that humanity swims in swarming schools down to couplings, and, yes, tragically, to the singular self. :( Albeit a ripple against an overwhelming tide, I still give thanks to this network.

Thanks Tal Spektor for your offer to help. Interestingly, my wife has communicated that she has had the opposite experience from you: went from being asexual to sexual. I have been toying around in my mind to initiate a poll on evolution (or not) of one's sexual orientation. I have searched the polling archives and I have seen no such poll. Anyway, my wife says she has experienced my world. Forgive me, but I do question whether this was the case. The reason I distrust her revelation is based upon her past actions. It is hard for me to imagine a person who alleges to have experienced my world to take actions that were so hurtful to it, to what is so intrinsically a part of me.