I've moved out of the bedroom, and I'm glad

[Agonizer]

I'm a sexual male married 10 years to an ace female.

A few weeks ago, on the real premise that I'm always waking my wife with my snoring (and so she's always elbowing me), I started sleeping in another room. I love it and don't want to go back to the 'marital bed,' even if I get the snoring issue solved.

Some of the reasons are practical, and some are very,very, very personal.

The main thing I like about it -- I confess -- is that for a change I'm not the only one who feels deprived in terms of intimacy. Yes, in a way I'm sticking it to her on purpose, but there is a point to it. I am trying to get her to feel, and express, that she wants to have more interaction with me than she does. I will be using this as a conversation starter. I am hoping this will help her understand that having no sexual dimension in our marriage is distressing for me in sort of the same way that having no contact at all during sleep hours seems to be distressing for her.

I have also found that I just like being alone at bedtime. I don't have to coordinate for when to turn the light out. I don't have to be quiet if I get into or out of bed while she's asleep. I don't have to tune out her TV show if I'm trying to read. And -- yes, it's getting personal again -- I don't have to lie there meeting the intimacy needs of someone who doesn't ever take the initiative to try to meet mine.

It won't be impossible to get me back in bed with her -- just very difficult!

[Unbanned]

I will be using this as a conversation starter.

Would it not be easier and less confusing to simply talk to her?

[sasha123]

I will be using this as a conversation starter.

Would it not be easier and less confusing to simply talk to her?

I assure you that he tried.

[Agonizer]

So far, all our discussions have been from a baseline of having no sexual dimension but lots of the kind of closeness that makes her feel good. We don't flirt. We don't kiss. We don't address each other in sexual terms. We hardly ever touch. But we spend huge amounts of time in the same space; we use affectionate language; we go on dates and hang out with other couples. To her it must feel like a complete and intimate relationship, despite what I tell her. I think it's just hard for her to detect the dysfunction that I keep telling her is there.

So I want to start the next conversation from a baseline of living like roommates. I want the onus to be on her to tell me what's wrong with that situation and how she wants it to be different. Then I can ask her: "What difference would that make for you? What would it give you that you are not getting? What if I come back to the bedroom but only grudgingly -- what if it's painfully clear the whole time that I'd rather be in the other room?" Etc.

I'm not trying to manipulate her into becoming someone she is not. It's quite the opposite: I want to help her see both of us more clearly and stop hoping and imagining that we are soul mates. I want her to realize how broken the relationship is (from my perspective at least) so we can have a practical, realistic conversation about what to do next.

And regarding what I want from AVEN members on this topic: I'll take whatever you've got. Advice, criticism, encouragement, compliments, BevMo gift cards ....

I'm up way past my bedtime, so goodnight dear AVEN people, and thanks. I'll check in again soon.

[*Judy*]

I'm not trying to manipulate her into becoming someone she is not. It's quite the opposite: I want to help her see both of us more clearly and stop hoping and imagining that we are soul mates. I want her to realize how broken the relationship is (from my perspective at least) so we can have a practical, realistic conversation about what to do next.

Ok, this could be a dangerous game. Starting is alright I think, but this all could turn exactly into what you say you don't want: manipulation.

You described before what you miss in a relationship.So for you it's broken and you said that you do a lot of stuff she is comfortable with.

I have a question: Does all what you do that she feels comfortable with feel unnormal to you or do you think this should be part of a relationship aswell and you do it "freely"? Or do you have to try ro do those things?

What I want to say is that to some asexuals those things you are missing aren't natural and what could happen is that she could be trying and you could still not be happy about it, because it just doesn't feel "normal" to you...there you go close to manipulate somebody.

All in all it's okay to make her see what you miss, but don't expect too much of it. I doubt you would want to make her feel uncomfortable to fake something that you search for in a relationship, because I think that isn't going to work. From my experiences most sexuals don't feel like they hoped they would in such a situation...and some blame the asexual for it.

[EdenRose]

Well that's what my grand parents and now parents do, they love it, and they don't plan in ever sharing the same bed again. xD

[Agonizer]

Does all what you do that she feels comfortable with feel unnormal to you or do you think this should be part of a relationship aswell and you do it "freely"? Or do you have to try ro do those things?

The things I described are things I like in their own right. I just have trouble enjoying them because it feels so unfair that she gets her ideal level of intimacy and I'm nowhere near getting mine. We've gone on this way so long because I always look at the bright side -- "At least we have some kinds of mutual enjoyment."

I'd be happy just being roommates and being more honest about what we don't have.

I'd also be happy if she made some effort to be soul mates and lovers with me.

The situation that makes me unhappy is one we've been in, where we are clearly not soul mates and lovers but I have to pretend that we are. It is win-lose.

[Lady Girl]

It seems to me that if you aren't really soulmates without the sexual act (in your soulmate picture it's a must, in hers it's not), you just aren't. My husband knows full well that I would like to have a sexual relationship with him, but here's the shtick; we are lovers without it. I don't have to pretend and I don't have to withhold something we both like from him to somehow demonstrate what he's doing to me...I have gone down that road and for me it doesn't make sense anymore (I can't believe it ever did).

The thing is, if I love him I'm going to accept him for who he is, asexuality and all. Yes, you could say he should make the effort to do that for me too, but I'm done thinking what he should do to prove his love for me...my ultimate decision has become this, the onus is on me to demonstrate my love for him. No strings attached.

That's how it is for me though. Your situation may be entirely different. To me, what you're doing isn't horrible, but it does seem manipulative.

[*Judy*]

so for her you already are soulmates...I understand that, because I don't need sexual intimacy to feel like soulmates aswell.

But you having to pretend something that FOR YOU isn't there, just to keep up her thinking isn't right. ( I know that too, my father pretends that things in the past never happened and starts to ignore me if I try to hell him, that they did happen)

What is her reaction when you try to explain this to her?

[Down in Texas]

I think I understand Agonizer. I do not think he is using it as a manipulation but as an awakening.

I too have absorbed all of the pain from the sexual disparity in our relationship and I think if I were to do this it might open the eyes on my husband also.

My husband does not believe that there are as many others that are sexually driven as I. He firmly believes that he is in the majority not the minority. However I have never tried this tactic because of our children. I have never wanted them to know about our sexual problems in our marriage. There may come the day that I will tell them but not now.

Personally I hope it works as you hope Agonizer. Best of Luck. May it at least open up the path to a better vantage point of communication.

[Guest]

I would be very careful with this. She may do things that HURT HER and can cause trauma (I am not sure on her feelings about sex) just because she feels you are "withholding" the affection she wants until she gives you what you want. And that can breed resentment, not understanding. It's a very fine line you're walking between emotional manipulation (akin to a person withholding sex until their partner does what they want, which is generally accepted to be a very bad thing) and getting her to understand your side. You do not want to cross it. I'm not saying that is your intention, or what you're doing, it will just be very easy to cross over to doing that as you try this and you want to be aware of that. Personally, if my boyfriend tried to do this to me, I would not be interested in understanding him but I would be very interested in leaving him. It would feel like a "vindictive" move coming from him. So, that is something else to kind of keep in mind. She may not understand your meaning behind it and could make some very bad jumps as to why you are doing this.

The fact she can't accept that YOU ARE NOT HAPPY and YOU feel something is wrong, is a communication issue. And she really does need to accept your PoV is yours and respect that. Without having to understand it, even. You're not going to understand your partner/spouse 100% of the time, sometimes you just have to accept "Hey, this is important to me and I am not getting it." But, you shouldn't be forced to fake anything either, to make her happy. So, if you're not feeling natural in being affectionate without sex, I don't think you should have to be.

It sounds like you both want very different things. I wish you luck in finding a middle ground that makes you both content, even if not either side's ideal. If you cannot reach that though, do not be ashamed to admit you are simply incompatible.

[Agonizer]

It sounds like you both want very different things.

That is true. I haven't said much about it in this thread, but she and I have very few common interests and very different values. It feels like an empty relationship, independent of the sexual incompatibility.

May it at least open up the path to a better vantage point of communication.

That is very kind of you. Thank you!

I don't have to pretend and I don't have to withhold something we both like from him to somehow demonstrate what he's doing to me

To clarify, in the context of our marriage, things I would normally like have become unpleasant because the relationship feels so one-sided -- so indulgent in her direction and so dismissive of my needs and feelings. And my wife seems to need some kind of demonstration to wake her up. She is in serious denial.

[Sally]

Does all what you do that she feels comfortable with feel unnormal to you or do you think this should be part of a relationship aswell and you do it "freely"? Or do you have to try ro do those things?

The things I described are things I like in their own right. I just have trouble enjoying them because it feels so unfair that she gets her ideal level of intimacy and I'm nowhere near getting mine. We've gone on this way so long because I always look at the bright side -- "At least we have some kinds of mutual enjoyment."

I'd be happy just being roommates and being more honest about what we don't have.

I'd also be happy if she made some effort to be soul mates and lovers with me.

The situation that makes me unhappy is one we've been in, where we are clearly not soul mates and lovers but I have to pretend that we are. It is win-lose.

Then why don't you be honest with her? It's your choice to pretend; she's not making you do so. You are both equal partners in this; if she's happy and you're not because you're not getting what you want, then say so and decide whether you wish it to continue or not. That's your decision. Decision-making is, of course, more difficult than trying to manipulate someone into being a different person, but eventually, you'll have to do it.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

My husband knows full well that I would like to have a sexual relationship with him, but here's the shtick; we are lovers without it.

That's how it is for me though. Your situation may be entirely different. To me, what you're doing isn't horrible, but it does seem manipulative.

Two incredible statements, and I couldn't agree more.

I feel the same to my girlfriend as LG does in her first statement.

Regarding the second, though, I agree with LG because I don't necessarily think the OP is deliberately trying to be manipulative, but we see it as such, because we're on the outside, looking in. I'm also not saying it's justified, either. Only the OP will know if this is the right path or not, as we don't know what conversations were had (or not had) between them and their wife.

All we can do, Agonizer, is wish you the best of luck, and try to offer a little support here and there.

Just be careful, though, and guard your feelings (and hers) as much as you can in the process.

[Sarcastic_Morteo]

Completely side stepping the issue, but have you spoken to a doctor about your snoring? You might have sleep apnea which can cause some problems further on as you age. If so you can get some minor surgery to open your pathways or a breathing mask for sleeping in. You should definitely talk to you wife about the intimacy and emotional issues, but I don't think you should overlook the possible health issue. Besides, its hard to be intimate in bed when you gotta wear a thing hooked up to your face when you sleep. My Dad slept in a separate bed due to my Mom's snoring until she got her breathing apparatus.

[Feral_Sophisticate]

Completely side stepping the issue, but have you spoken to a doctor about your snoring? You might have sleep apnea which can cause some problems further on as you age. If so you can get some minor surgery to open your pathways or a breathing mask for sleeping in. You should definitely talk to you wife about the intimacy and emotional issues, but I don't think you should overlook the possible health issue. Besides, its hard to be intimate in bed when you gotta wear a thing hooked up to your face when you sleep. My Dad slept in a separate bed due to my Mom's snoring until she got her breathing apparatus.

And sleep apnea/excessive snoring can be caused by diet and obesity. I know I used to snore like a demon years ago (and if I'm really tired, my girl tells me that I saw logs like a pro), but I've found I do that less than I used to since losing about 40 lbs. Of course, I generally sleep better, too, so there's a dual benefit to that.

[Down in Texas]

Completely side stepping the issue, but have you spoken to a doctor about your snoring? You might have sleep apnea which can cause some problems further on as you age. If so you can get some minor surgery to open your pathways or a breathing mask for sleeping in. You should definitely talk to you wife about the intimacy and emotional issues, but I don't think you should overlook the possible health issue. Besides, its hard to be intimate in bed when you gotta wear a thing hooked up to your face when you sleep. My Dad slept in a separate bed due to my Mom's snoring until she got her breathing apparatus.

And sleep apnea/excessive snoring can be caused by diet and obesity. I know I used to snore like a demon years ago (and if I'm really tired, my girl tells me that I saw logs like a pro), but I've found I do that less than I used to since losing about 40 lbs. Of course, I generally sleep better, too, so there's a dual benefit to that.

Drinking will also contribute to snoring but that is not the issue here.

I guess I am about the only one here that does not read manipulation into his remarks. Sometimes you can talk until you are blue in the face and not be able to reach a person on the level of understanding or comprehension.

I even compared our sexual disparity to his drinking by asking him " if the refrigerator was full of nice cold beer and you knew it was in there yet you could not get the door open and you were forced to drink water how would you feel knowing that cold beer was sitting just inches out of reach?" He never answered.

[Lady Girl]

Down, Agonizer's talked about "sticking it to her," "trying to get her to feel, and express, that she wants more interaction with me than she does," and mentioned how unfair he feels the situation is. Those are all statements that make the scenerio sound manipulative. It's not so hard to see. In regards to it, it's not really that horrible or abusive, but it could certainly backfire.

I don't think love is about what the other person owes you or keeping score.

In my experience, there isn't a lack of understanding...my husband knows full well what I'm saying and what it means. To me a non response indicates he knows he can't offer me what I'm asking. My husband may not be able to meet the request, but he certainly (and sometimes painfully) comprehends what I'm saying.

Agonizer, if you are happy with your new bedroom, I think that's great. You did ask what we think and I think it's good to do this for yourself, but trying to get her to see your point of view might be more easily accomplished by telling her you've been pretending to be satisfied.

[Down in Texas]

Down, Agonizer's talked about "sticking it to her," "trying to get her to feel, and express, that she wants more interaction with me than she does," and mentioned how unfair he feels the situation is. Those are all statements that make the scenerio sound manipulative. It's not so hard to see. In regards to it, it's not really that horrible or abusive, but it could certainly backfire.

I don't think love is about what the other person owes you or keeping score.

In my experience, there isn't a lack of understanding...my husband knows full well what I'm saying and what it means. To me a non response indicates he knows he can't offer me what I'm asking. My husband may not be able to meet the request, but he certainly (and sometimes painfully) comprehends what I'm saying.

Agonizer, if you are happy with your new bedroom, I think that's great. You did ask what we think and I think it's good to do this for yourself, but trying to get her to see your point of view might be more easily accomplished by telling her you've been pretending to be satisfied.

Lady I understand you and I do not wish to argue or derail the thread however MY HUSBAND does not and and shuts down when the topic of sex is on the table. I can relate to the frustration that is all I am saying. I agree whole heatedly that to do it with a vindictive attidude is wrong and harmful. However I could easily see MY HUSBAND not partisapating in an open conversation that would be helpful to a compromise of any kind.

Not all are as lucky as some of you.

[Sally]

Down, your capitalizing "MY HUSBAND" really shows a lot of anger.

Compromise is not something that someone has to participate in. Nor is communication. If communication/compromise is extremely important to you and your partner (whether sexual or asexual) refuses to participate, then it's your decision whether to stay in the marriage/partnership.

I know I've said that many times, but I just can't imagine why anyone would continue to stay under such circumstances. If you're constantly annoyed or angry or feel frozen out or frustrated or unlucky or lied to or whatever, what is complaining going to do? Take responsibility for your life and either reconcile yourself to who your partner is, or cut your loses and leave.

[Down in Texas]

Down, your capitalizing "MY HUSBAND" really shows a lot of anger.

Compromise is not something that someone has to participate in. Nor is communication. If communication/compromise is extremely important to you and your partner (whether sexual or asexual) refuses to participate, then it's your decision whether to stay in the marriage/partnership.

I know I've said that many times, but I just can't imagine why anyone would continue to stay under such circumstances. If you're constantly annoyed or angry or feel frozen out or frustrated or unlucky or lied to or whatever, what is complaining going to do? Take responsibility for your life and either reconcile yourself to who your partner is, or cut your loses and leave.

Sorry Sally. I am on a cell. I have no other way of emphasizing that I am only speaking for my situation. I have no way to make the letters bold or in italics. I am not mad, upset, resentful, angry or anything else with my husband as I type we are laying in bed listening to music we both love to dance to.

[Lady Girl]

Down, Agonizer's talked about "sticking it to her," "trying to get her to feel, and express, that she wants more interaction with me than she does," and mentioned how unfair he feels the situation is. Those are all statements that make the scenerio sound manipulative. It's not so hard to see. In regards to it, it's not really that horrible or abusive, but it could certainly backfire.

I don't think love is about what the other person owes you or keeping score.

In my experience, there isn't a lack of understanding...my husband knows full well what I'm saying and what it means. To me a non response indicates he knows he can't offer me what I'm asking. My husband may not be able to meet the request, but he certainly (and sometimes painfully) comprehends what I'm saying.

Agonizer, if you are happy with your new bedroom, I think that's great. You did ask what we think and I think it's good to do this for yourself, but trying to get her to see your point of view might be more easily accomplished by telling her you've been pretending to be satisfied.

Lady I understand you and I do not wish to argue or derail the thread however MY HUSBAND does not and and shuts down when the topic of sex is on the table. I can relate to the frustration that is all I am saying. I agree whole heatedly that to do it with a vindictive attidude is wrong and harmful. However I could easily see MY HUSBAND not partisapating in an open conversation that would be helpful to a compromise of any kind.

Not all are as lucky as some of you.

I don't know that it has so much to do with luck.

You mentioned the story of the beer in the fridge and him not being able to have it even though he knows it's there. I understand that is a story to try to get your husband to see how you feel, but what about the asexual view? What if we were told we needed to eat a bowl of earthworms every morning in order to be happy and healthy people...you can have all the other foods you like the rest of the time, but every morning only earthworms (it's the only true source of protein/intimacy). Would that kind of story coming from our partners help us understand how they feel about sex? I don't know, but reading all the asexual views here on AVEN makes me feel like the good things in my marriage aren't because of luck. I'd like to accept who my husband is...he tried for me for 25 years.

I can relate to the frustration too (very much so, I also moved out of the bedroom once). I honestly feel both partners feel frustration, not just the sexual partner. My point isn't about Agonizer being vindictive or mean, but trying to accomplish something that may be better just said..."I've been pretending to be happy in this relationship, I'm not." Sure she may get that message with the new bedroom situation, but words might help too.

[Down in Texas]

Down, Agonizer's talked about "sticking it to her," "trying to get her to feel, and express, that she wants more interaction with me than she does," and mentioned how unfair he feels the situation is. Those are all statements that make the scenerio sound manipulative. It's not so hard to see. In regards to it, it's not really that horrible or abusive, but it could certainly backfire.

I don't think love is about what the other person owes you or keeping score.

In my experience, there isn't a lack of understanding...my husband knows full well what I'm saying and what it means. To me a non response indicates he knows he can't offer me what I'm asking. My husband may not be able to meet the request, but he certainly (and sometimes painfully) comprehends what I'm saying.

Agonizer, if you are happy with your new bedroom, I think that's great. You did ask what we think and I think it's good to do this for yourself, but trying to get her to see your point of view might be more easily accomplished by telling her you've been pretending to be satisfied.

Lady I understand you and I do not wish to argue or derail the thread however MY HUSBAND does not and and shuts down when the topic of sex is on the table. I can relate to the frustration that is all I am saying. I agree whole heatedly that to do it with a vindictive attidude is wrong and harmful. However I could easily see MY HUSBAND not partisapating in an open conversation that would be helpful to a compromise of any kind.

Not all are as lucky as some of you.

I don't know that it has so much to do with luck.

You mentioned the story of the beer in the fridge and him not being able to have it even though he knows it's there. I understand that is a story to try to get your husband to see how you feel, but what about the asexual view? What if we were told we needed to eat a bowl of earthworms every morning in order to be happy and healthy people...you can have all the other foods you like the rest of the time, but every morning only earthworms (it's the only true source of protein/intimacy). Would that kind of story coming from our partners help us understand how they feel about sex? I don't know, but reading all the asexual views here on AVEN makes me feel like the good things in my marriage aren't because of luck. I'd like to accept who my husband is...he tried for me for 25 years.

I can relate to the frustration too (very much so, I also moved out of the bedroom once). I honestly feel both partners feel frustration, not just the sexual partner. My point isn't about Agonizer being vindictive or mean, but trying to accomplish something that may be better just said..."I've been pretending to be happy in this relationship, I'm not." Sure she may get that message with the new bedroom situation, but words might help too.

I understand that also Lady really I do! But where do you go when words don't work? Yes I understand the analogy with the worm I have been that person eating the worms for years I have gotten use to the taste. AVEN has shown me there are reasons for me to have been eating those worms. I am working very hard to get to the point that you are at. You have tried much more drastic things in your past that have helped you get to the place you are at and Sally has also. I understand you both. I am NEWER to this than some of you. I understand why I should now forgo my pursuance of my sexual desires and I have. I have not pressured my husband since I found AVEN. All of my post of disappointments are from experiences prior to having found AVEN.

You will both be glad to hear that I am not mistreating my Husband and I have no plan of leaving my marriage. He is perfectly happy with how I treat him he soaks up my affection like a sponge. He is more content now than he ever has been and finding AVEN has been great for him. And yes I am still struggling at times. However I NEVER take my struggles out on my husband I internalize them which I know is not good AVEN is MY vent.

[Sally]

You will both be glad to hear that I am not mistreating my Husband and I have no plan of leaving my marriage. He is perfectly happy with how I treat him he soaks up my affection like a sponge. He is more content now than he ever has been and finding AVEN has been great for him. And yes I am still struggling at times. However I NEVER take my struggles out on my husband I internalize them which I know is not good AVEN is MY vent.

Knowing that your husband is happy but you are internalizing your unhappiness makes me sad, not glad. And it inevitably makes me wonder why you do not leave your marriage, for the possibility of a relationship with another sexual, where you would both be happy.

[roryjack]

I can sympathize with Agonizer. At times I think finding some way to deny her something she desires to show her how I feel. I feel like it isn't fair that she gets all she needs while I don't get something that is essential to me. I generally resist those temptations because I know for me they are not in the right spirit. I'm really just trying to get back at her. And that is just spiteful and not helpful at all. I do understand that sometimes an object lesson is a good way to teach someone something. And if that is really why you are doing it, as a way to communicate, I hope it works for you.

My wife and I have always slept in the same bed even though there are all sorts of reasons why we might not. She sleeps very lightly and wakes at any movement and often has insomnia. I find it very hard, every single night, to not snuggle up to her and touch her at night because that is just my natural instinct and need. It hurts that I can't but I have to stay away. She can't sleep that way. She would probably prefer separate beds, and sometimes I think it would be easier for me too. But for both of us, sleeping together is one way we maintain our intimacy, so we do it in spite of the struggles.

To those who don't understand why a sexual like me would not just leave, I'd have to say that there is a lot more to love and marriage than that. Being married means a commitment to do everything we can to make it work. It means sticking with it even when things are hard. And there is love. Love takes many forms, but a primary one is putting someone else's needs above your own. In my case there are also kids who I love with the same kind of commitment. So I find ways to make it work. She's a wonderful person loved by so many people for what she does for them. If I have to give up a part of who I am so that she give that kind of love back to the world, that isn't such a bad trade off.

That's my choice, others can make their own. Whatever we choose in life, there is always some give and take. You just need to figure out what you can live with.

[Lady Girl]

You will both be glad to hear that I am not mistreating my Husband and I have no plan of leaving my marriage. He is perfectly happy with how I treat him he soaks up my affection like a sponge. He is more content now than he ever has been and finding AVEN has been great for him. And yes I am still struggling at times. However I NEVER take my struggles out on my husband I internalize them which I know is not good AVEN is MY vent.

Knowing that your husband is happy but you are internalizing your unhappiness makes me sad, not glad. And it inevitably makes me wonder why you do not leave your marriage, for the possibility of a relationship with another sexual, where you would both be happy.

I agree, it doesn't make me glad either. I know you have stated reasons why you don't leave, but I sure wish you and your husband could both be happy, not just him. If I felt like my husband didn't care about my happiness as much as I do his I would have an entirely different story to tell.

I'm as surprised as the next person that I am happy being celibate given how much I enjoyed sexual activity (I lived for it, it seems). If you're not though Down it doesn't mean you need to get where I'm at, it just means we are different types.

[Guest]

Where do you go when words don't work? Therapy maybe. Or, you accept things will not change and you decide to take it or leave it. I do not understand the idea of "but everything would be fine if". There is no "if". The "if" exists only in your mind and will never be real. It's like buying a Great Dane and a tiny doggie door, and refusing to throw it out and get a new one because "if it were only bigger". But it's not bigger. You gotta deal with the doggie door you have, not the doggie door you wish you had.

As for the bedroom and the OP. First, I understand the bedroom thing. I made what my partner briefly called the "revenge bedroom", until she started using it too and really liked it. Like the OP, the room was created for 50% snoring/ sleeping reasons, about 25% so I'd have a comfortable place to, um, self-pleasure, and about 25% because I wanted a place to go when I felt sad or rejected.

That said, my purpose wasn't to show her how horrible a relationship we have. OP, I feel like you want her to mutually agree to modify or end your relationship. Certainly you don't expect ya'll to get closer from this... You say you want her to understand you're not a good match, not soul mates, not intimate... Well, she may never agree. She doesn't feel how you feel and that's ok. Your feelings aren't wrong just because she doesn't see them. You are free to break up with her without first trying to teach her a lesson.

Lady Girl said something about acting with love, no strings attached, and that caught my eye. Personally, I think nearly all tit-for-tat situations are grounded in immaturity. Whenever I find myself doing thing A to entice someone else to do B, I remind myself that's manipulative and just a bad way to communicate.

Here's an example. My partner loves receiving massages but hates giving them. I give her about 3 per week and I receive about 3 per year. Sometimes it makes me really angry. She'll say "I just don't enjoy doing it. My hands get tired" and I'm all "and you think my hands DON'T?" and then I'll withhold massages for a few days.

And then I notice that all I've done is introduce resentment into our interactions and I eliminated one of our most intimate activities, I feel like an ass, and I go back to giving massages. Because I shouldn't be doing it just to get something back... I should be giving, no strings attached. But that's just how I feel, obvs.

[Sally]

Where do you go when words don't work? Therapy maybe. Or, you accept things will not change and you decide to take it or leave it. I do not understand the idea of "but everything would be fine if". There is no "if". The "if" exists only in your mind and will never be real.

Yup.

[Down in Texas]

Where do you go when words don't work? Therapy maybe. Or, you accept things will not change and you decide to take it or leave it. I do not understand the idea of "but everything would be fine if". There is no "if". The "if" exists only in your mind and will never be real.

Yup.

He won't go. He does not think there is a problem

[Sally]

Where do you go when words don't work? Therapy maybe. Or, you accept things will not change and you decide to take it or leave it. I do not understand the idea of "but everything would be fine if". There is no "if". The "if" exists only in your mind and will never be real.

Yup.

He won't go. He does not think there is a problem

But you do, so whatever action taken -- therapy, leaving the relationship, whatever -- is up to you. That may not be fair, but it's reality.