Jump to content

Is there any need for or interest in a dedicated POC space at the con?


Omnes et Nihil

Poll about the idea of a dedicated POC-only space  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see a dedicated POC space at the conference?

    • I *am* a POC and I would like to see a dedicated POC-only space.
      13
    • I *am* a POC and I would like there *not* to be a dedicated POC-only space.
      10
    • I *am* a POC and I have no opinion.
      4
    • I *am not* a POC and I would like to see a dedicated POC-only space.
      25
    • I *am not* a POC and I like there *not* to be a dedicated POC-only space.
      16
    • I *am not* a POC and I have no opinion.
      9
    • Other.
      3


Recommended Posts

How about instead of the term POC, which isn't used in the US and sounds kind of strange to me, we call it the minority forum. That way it could include people like myself who are as pale white as freshly fallen snow but also happen to be a minority as well. Because the issue I'm seeing is making it about skin color only and not about actually being a minority.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's still the need to clarify why this room is being discussed for a conference on asexuality in the first place. I mean, PoC will certainly not be the only minority attending the conference, and if the topic being discussed in the separate room would be unrelated to asexuality (e.g. racism, which is certainly another important topic, I'm obviously not denying that), then why is this being discussed for the Asexual Conference? That's still not clear from what the OP wrote.

There are obviously needs for safe spaces for PoC and other minorities to discuss their situations, but why is it being brought up for this conference, which isn't on social justice in general but specifically on asexuality,....

because ethnicity can and does play a part in how one experiences many things in life, including (a)sexuality. if you look through the POC thread in Asexual Musings, you will see that many asexual, gray-a and demi POC feel that their experiences with their (a)sexuality (and/or romantic orientation) doesn't always align with some of the discussion elsewhere on the forum or within the asexual/ace spectrum community at large.

intersectionality is very important not just for POC, which is why i think that it would be great if non-exclusive spaces were available for the discussion of such things. as i'm not the OP, though, i can't answer why this question has only been raised for POC.

Yeah and I agree with you, as explained in post #7. My question is different. I assume that if this is to discuss intersections with asexuality, it should be open to everyone because that's what you do to educate, and that's what AVEN does. My remaining question is, if this is a space to discuss OTHER issues, unrelated to asexuality, then why should we add a room at an asexual conference, and who would be paying for it if it's not related?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Queer As Cat

How about instead of the term POC, which isn't used in the US and sounds kind of strange to me....

.......POC is used almost exclusively in the US and it is very commonly used. o_O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

edit:

My remaining question is, if this is a space to discuss OTHER issues, unrelated to asexuality, then why should we add a room at an asexual conference, and who would be paying for it if it's not related?

...and the point i was trying to make was that those other issues can and do relate to asexuality.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
RainbowGalaxy said:

I'm non-PoC and I voted on the assumption that my vote was not of any real importance, but merely to show that I respected the way the poll was constructed.

As ithaca says, it's just a way to see who's voting. Not an invitation for everyone to have an effect on issues that aren't theirs.

I didn't see any such indication, so I wouldn't feel safe making that assumption unless it were explicitly stated. From what I see among the comments, there are non-PoC who do believe they should have a say in the matter.

parlance

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

↑ Yeah like me. Because the actual crap I go through is the same as what other minorities go through and it would be nice to be able to talk about my experiences without being singled out and told I am insane and can't possibly feel anything like that because my skin is white.

Minorities of all skin colors have similar issues that I think are important to talk about without singling out some and saying they are less worthy or real because of this notion that race is the only thing that makes people segregated.

Is PoC a generational term? None of my friends who are minorities ( majority of my friends) have ever used it around me. I guess just calling people colored seems sort of backwards to me....Obviously it isn't a bad term...but I just don't tend to think about people by race.

Link to post
Share on other sites
RainbowGalaxy

I didn't see any such indication, so I wouldn't feel safe making that assumption unless it were explicitly stated. From what I see among the comments, there are non-PoC who do believe they should have a say in the matter.

parlance

I feel like it's a pretty rational assumption. If someone has considered making a PoC safespace, where PoC people can speak for themselves about matters that are important to them, I would be baffled that they would then say PoC can't speak for themselves about the creation of that safespace, which is in itself, a matter that is important for them.

(And the simple fact that the votes are separated at all is obviously an indication that they are going to be viewed differently, otherwise why bother differentiating PoC and non-PoC votes in the first place? If you're just going to add them up anyway?)

It also doesn't matter whether non-PoC people think they should have a say in it. People think they should have a say in everything. All that matters is whether the creator is actually taking their say into account.

Link to post
Share on other sites
RainbowGalaxy said:

I feel like it's a pretty rational assumption. If someone has considered making a PoC safespace, where PoC people can speak for themselves about matters that are important to them, I would be baffled that they would then say PoC can't speak for themselves about the creation of that safespace, which is in itself, a matter that is important for them.

Except that the person above you just proved my point. You might be operating from a more socially conscious position, but for a PoC who has been in these conversations countless times before, and has seen PoC spaces usurped by white people with a sense of entitlement, again, a rational assumption =/= a safe assumption.

parlance

Link to post
Share on other sites
Queer As Cat

@Marki

...seeing as how some ethnic minorities with pale skin are commonly included within the POC community, i think it is safe to say that POC references more than just skin color. and no, POC is not a dated term by any means.

i suggest you do some research.... Google is your friend. perhaps search for "jewish POC" and see what others have to say.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

But I wonder which miniorities we should include. It is many who are non-POC who face(d) oppression, prejudices, stigmatization etc. Take Sami people and other Finno-Ugric people here. They were tried to be assimilated and exterminated and it is still a great degree of racism against them and they still face problems due to the past. Even if they have white skin color.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Queer As Cat

"WE" do not include anything. people SELF-identify as POC. others do not get a say in it. it isn't a club where membership is voted on.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If this POC only room comes and excludes people based upon their skin color, they might exclude miniorities that actually face racism and prejudices. Like Samis or Jews. Here it stood in th law that the former were animals and not humans and should not be entitled the same rights, and should only be fed like a dog etc. If that person face racism and get hurt they should also be a part of that room evne if there skin is pale as snow.

My point is: Discrimination and racism is not only about skin color, it is so much more. Still today many are racist against Jews and Eastern Europeans even if they are white. If we only base this upon skin color we might overlook other groups who face(d) racism.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Queer As Cat

....i just said that POC references more than just skin color, did i not?

why would a POC space exclude people based on skin color?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I spoke about the proposed situation in the OP :) Sorry if it looked like I was artacking you! There the POC space would exclude whites. And we have a qiuet room (or looking into it) which is basically the POC-space for everyone.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The OP specifically described the room as one for "people facing racism or racialised people," so I think you're derailing the conversation by bringing up a hypothetical exclusion that wouldn't apply.

parlance

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Queer As Cat

....i think that you are and have been misunderstanding something from the beginning. nowhere in the OP was there mention of discrimination based on skin color. in fact, the OP explicitly worded their post as to include the groups you mentioned.

i think you and others have gotten hung up on the "color" in POC because you fail to really understand what POC as a self-identity is and the fact that it is not based on skin color.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on how I read this coupled with my previous experience with the PoC thread......it was very much a no whites type attitude. If this isn't going to be like that and truly is about minorities only than yes I very much like the idea. But if it is going to be like the thread where I was attacked for being white....oh hell no.

@ queer cat. I'm not a fan of being PC. I think it is a good theory but in concept is just a total failure...I had read your link about the PoC term before making the first comment ...I see what they are trying to do but honestly I consider the term minorities to be much more inclusional and not negative at all. The problem with PoC is the "C". We need to stop viewing ourselves as white or yellow or red or brown or olive or black or grey etc. We need to view ourselves as people. However that never will happen.

@Howard. I totally agree with you about being curious about which groups would be allowed. Many ethnic groups in Europe face issues to this day. I don't think most people outside of Europe really know about the problems that the Basques/Sami/countless others face. It would be cool for those groups to be included as well!

Link to post
Share on other sites

as a person of color, i appreciate that this question is being asked. that said, i think it would be unfair if only POC were provided a dedicated space for discussion. there is a lot of intersectionality within the asexual and ace spectrum community and unless dedicated spaces are also provided for other minority groups, it would be very unfair for POC to have one.

that said, i also think that non-POC can also benefit from hearing discussion of POC-related topics between POC, so i think it would actually work against the community to have a POC only space. the same could be said of any other "____ only" place. one can set aside a space for a specific purpose (ie. the discussion of POC-related issues, the discussion of gender-related issues, etc) without making it EXCLUSIVE to a certain group of people. that would be a better idea, imho.

in the end i voted "I *am* a POC and I would like to see a dedicated POC-only space." provided that the "only" is removed and spaces for other groups are also provided.

This discussion is specifically about providing a space that is exclusive to racial minorities or "PoC." It's not about including workshops discussing intersectionality within the asexual community. It's not about engaging in open dialogue with people all across the racial and ethnic spectrums. It's not about asking if racial minorities should have a chance to communicate one-on-one amongst themselves, probably because that would naturally happen at events where there will a lot of "break times"(as this conference will have). This discussion is only asking if we would like to have those managing the conference create a safe space exclusively for those who identify as PoC.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just throwing this out there...

Before this is presented or committed to or whatever, Canadian segregation laws might apply? Because what is being floated is "You're not a PoC (whatever the definition is to whoever is "monitoring") and therefore you're not allowed into this room."

I think it's dangerous to say "this room would be open only to PoC" and then say "PoC is a self-definition" because you then lose the meaning of the first statement since you can't draw a definitive line as to who you might exclude. Instead, a room as ithaca has suggested here might be the best of both worlds.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wait...this is about the pride event and not making a separate website on Aven for PoC???

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wait...this is about the pride event and not making a separate website on Aven for PoC???

We're in the WorldPride 2014 forum, and it's been said over and over that this is about the conference. I've been asking more than once what this space would be for, and why it should be at the Conference if it's not about the intersection with asexuality. ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Queer As Cat

@.Lia

...which is why i've objected to exclusivity.

either way, i won't be attending the event, sadly, so i'll take my leave of this forum...

*edit to comment on the post below*

Howard, you are so off base it's ridiculous.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wait...this is about the pride event and not making a separate website on Aven for PoC???

We're in the WorldPride 2014 forum, and it's been said over and over that this is about the conference. I've been asking more than once what this space would be for, and why it should be at the Conference if it's not about the intersection with asexuality. ;)

It is basically if people who are not white need a safe space from the whites. So they can go there and relax without the intereference of whites, most likely because they have said something that is racist.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@ queer cat. I'm not a fan of being PC.I think it is a good theory but in concept is just a total failure..

[*snip*]

I had read your link about the PoC term before making the first comment ...I see what they are trying to do but honestly I consider the term minorities to be much more inclusional and not negative at all.

Being "PC" (your word, not mine) is about respecting others. It's only a failure to people who can't be bothered.

PoC are not the minority demographically speaking worldwide, so at best the word is a misnomer and at worst perjorative. You might not see it that way, but it doesn't matter, as you don't get to choose for someone else how they should identify.

parlance

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wait...this is about the pride event and not making a separate website on Aven for PoC???

We're in the WorldPride 2014 forum, and it's been said over and over that this is about the conference. I've been asking more than once what this space would be for, and why it should be at the Conference if it's not about the intersection with asexuality. ;)

It is basically if people who are not white need a safe space from the whites. So they can go there and relax without the intereference of whites, most likely because they have said something that is racist.

People who aren't white can already do that. There will be many break times for people to talk amongst themselves. During those times, people naturally tend to seek out those and strike up conversations with those who they have interesting conversations with and can relate to on some personal level.

What this is proposing is to have the people planning the conference (most of whom are white) create a safe space specifically for non-white people, even though marginalized groups already create those spaces on their own.

Link to post
Share on other sites
ithaca said:

We're in the WorldPride 2014 forum, and it's been said over and over that this is about the conference. I've been asking more than once what this space would be for,

Your question was answered in the OP: "Something that's just an open chill/discussion space with no specific programming"

And Queer as Cat has responded to you a couple of times. You might not like the answers, but no one's been ignoring you.

and why it should be at the Conference if it's not about the intersection with asexuality. ;)

You seem to be stuck on the idea that it has to be a structured discussion room, when the OP has pretty much described it as a hang-out.

And, btw, there's no reason why a discussion about intersectionality AND a safe space for POC can't exist. But the former wouldn't necessarily a safe space for PoC, as it very likely would focus more on educating non-marginalized people than empowering the marginalized.

parlance

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Minority is worse than POC IMO if were going to talk about being PC. That word is the epitome of PC. That term is used in other to make others feel safer and better about themselves.

Anyway I voted no,

My racial experiences has nothing to do with me being asexual.

If we're going to talk about safe spaces I'd rather have one for those of us with a stigma mental/mood disorder.

You're not going to experience life the same as me because I'm schizoeffective, regardless of whether your a POC or not.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
RainbowGalaxy
RainbowGalaxy said:

I feel like it's a pretty rational assumption. If someone has considered making a PoC safespace, where PoC people can speak for themselves about matters that are important to them, I would be baffled that they would then say PoC can't speak for themselves about the creation of that safespace, which is in itself, a matter that is important for them.

Except that the person above you just proved my point. You might be operating from a more socially conscious position, but for a PoC who has been in these conversations countless times before, and has seen PoC spaces usurped by white people with a sense of entitlement, again, a rational assumption =/= a safe assumption.

parlance

I confess that is a good point. Fair enough.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

...

*edit to comment on the post below*

Howard, you are so off base it's ridiculous.

I'm not sure if you were commenting on this quote by Howard:

It is basically if people who are not white need a safe space from the whites. So they can go there and relax without the intereference of whites, most likely because they have said something that is racist.

but if you were, that is what Omnes et Nihil said the safe space was for (though they may not have said it in this thread). They specifically said that the space was for "PoC" who might need to escape from white people at the conference who will be racist without knowing that they're racist.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
TechnoEA said:

That term is used in other to make others feel safer and better about themselves.

Actually, no, that's not related to the origin of the term at all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

If we're going to talk about safe spaces I'd rather have one for those of us with a stigma mental/mood disorder.

Can we not have both?

parlance

Link to post
Share on other sites
TheWalkingEevee

I'm PoC, and I don't think there needs to be a room for ONLY for PoC. That kind of defeats the purpose ( which I'm guessing is to create a forum about intersectionality). What we need to do is just work as the group that we are; a racially/religiously/gender diverse identity, just like all other identities. It's not necessary to separate based on race, and it'll just divide us. There is a need to discuss the intersections of orientation and race and gender, etc., but those kinds of talks need to happen with a diverse group, not just one specific intersection.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...