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"coming out" as an older asexuals concept


chair jockey

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chair jockey

I have to tell you what I think up front. I find that "coming out" is an LGBT concept that doesn't translate well to asexuality. For the most part, it is nobody else's business that I am asexual, and for an even greater part, nobody hassles me for being asexual. Youngsters on AVEN have reported being pressured by their families and peers and boy/girlfriends into being sexually active, and in those situations I guess "coming out" makes sense. But to "come out" just for the sake of being a showoff and dominating the conversation, when nobody has even alluded to your asexuality, much less said they have a problem with it or caused you any problems because of it, is something I find reprehensible. It's one of those things imported from the LGBT crowd, the vast majority of whom are not asexual, and which fits in very poorly with the realities of asexuality.

But even if you disagree with that, in what way does "coming out" work for a person like us, in our 40s? The people in our lives, if they have been in our lives for any length of time at all, are already aware of what we're like, and either they accept us or we have the confidence to tell them to take a hike--or, if we depend on them, we have enough life experience to manage the situation. As for strangers and acquaintances, we are all old enough not to give two shits about their opinions of us. Let the kids care about what every random idiot on the street thinks! We _should_ be far too mature for that (even if it is mostly children who make a big deal out of the word "mature.")

To sum up, if you've been married for 15 years and finally figured out that it's okay not to want sex with your spouse because that's the way you naturally are, that is a conversation you need to have with your spouse, but privately and decorously, because it's something between the two of you and involves no one else. But to grab a megaphone, climb onto the roof and start "coming out" to everybody on the street would be at best childish, and at worst narcissistic. The fact is that, at our age, nobody except someone like a spouse even cares about it.

Let the flaming begin.

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To a large extent I agree with you but I did sort of come out to my best friend. He was always trying to set me up with girls and one day I decided enough was enough and explained that I had zero interest in having a relationship with anyone. After taking about 30 seconds to digest the concept he was fine with it. Apparently he had thought I was shy and just needed some encouragement :huh:. It has now become a bit of a running joke between us with me commenting on his ability to spot a girl at 1000 yards and him commenting on my obliviousness.

In general I prefer to let people wonder. I amuses me how many people think I'm gay though they never actually ask me. If someone asks I'll tell them the truth.

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I agree with you surdjouk. the sexual active friends that i have that try to set me up, or to get me to go out with someone. I just tell them I'm still dead. then I found this place. An then started tell them. I'm still asexual. LOL

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The 'megaphone/rooftop' scenario is of course, ridiculous. However, there are circumstances as portrayed by "RazorEddie" and the like, that do happen quite naturally.

Also after all, we are AVEN - The Asexual Visibility and Education Network; which does state our original purpose. There are many times we need to make ourselves known.

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I disagree with the OP in the sense that coming out isn't about shouting from the rooftops or grabbing for attention or trying to "dominate the conversation". For some (I would say for the vast majority), at least, it isn't about saying "look at me". In fact, many asexuals I have met on this forum are introverts and/or shy and the last thing we want is to make noise and be the center of attention.

Like runester, it's more about visibility and education. It's about letting people know asexuality is a thing. And hopefully making it easier for others to learn about it and give them the opportunity to learn if it applies to them or a friend or partner or other loved one. To help sexual people and asexual people alike learn and maybe improve the lot of all concerned. Many of us older asexuals lived a large portion of our lives thinking (and being told) we were broken somehow. And we didn't know better because asexuality was not visible; we had not been able to learn about it.

Coming out, for asexuality (and LGBT comings out, for that matter) are also about saying "this is me, this is part of who I am". It's about not feeling like you have to hide who you are, about being honest with people close to you. It's about recognition that people are varied and that doesn't make some people bad or wrong or broken or damaged.

Of course, you don't have to come out. That's up to you and I respect anyone's choice in such matters. Just don't make assumptions about other people's motives, in coming our or not coming out. I applaud those who do speak out, promote visibility and education. I believe it's good for more people to know about asexuality, and often a personal connection helps people "get it". It's not just an abstract concept. There are real people who identify under this label, maybe even people they know.

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What Dave B. said!

Here are reasons I come out as an over 40 (52) asexual

  • to educate people about asexuality
  • to discourage sexuals from pursuing me as a romantic interest
  • to determine if someone I am interested in pursuing romantically would be OK with me being asexual

The OP does seem to have made a tactic assumption that older asexuals are done with pursuing new relationships which is not always true.

Cathy

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chair jockey

daveb has expressed what is, within the context of AVEN, a conservative view. Within AVEN, a certain approach to minority activism is establishmentarian, and comes with the usual protection of vested interests. That's something I'd like all of you to think about, especially those who falsely believe that, by supporting these conservative views, you are advocating some kind of social change.

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daveb has expressed what is, within the context of AVEN, a conservative view. Within AVEN, a certain approach to minority activism is establishmentarian, and comes with the usual protection of vested interests. That's something I'd like all of you to think about, especially those who falsely believe that, by supporting these conservative views, you are advocating some kind of social change.

Gotta admit. I have read this several times and I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around it and understanding exactly what it is you want me to be thinking about. I might do better if you would provide more concrete examples of what you are trying to get me to think about: a specific view of daveb and a specific social change that someone might falsely believe they are advocating.

Cathy

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Ah, well, I can't argue with your logic. We can't all be so level-headed, logical, precise and articulate.

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I've never used the word Asexual before, but I have made comments about not wanting a girlfriend / staying single / etc plenty of times.

So yeah i have some deep dark secrets, 3 of them are:

1. I'm bi (maybe gay) as far as romantically

2. I'm a virgin

3. I'm really not interest in sex (don't know that I'm 100% asexual though because there's always that 'maybe' chance I'd consider it with the right person)

----

#1 I wouldn't admit to & would even flat out deny

#2 I'd do my best to avoid directly answering

#3 Really wouldn't bother me to admit if questioned, but I wouldn't just state it on my own.

If someone found out #1 to be true & I couldn't deny it, I would also admit to Asexual, and never been on a date.

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daveb has expressed what is, within the context of AVEN, a conservative view. Within AVEN, a certain approach to minority activism is establishmentarian, and comes with the usual protection of vested interests. That's something I'd like all of you to think about, especially those who falsely believe that, by supporting these conservative views, you are advocating some kind of social change.

Daveb has expressed his opinion, just as others (and you) have. That's what we do on AVEN.

Otherwise, what you say above makes absolutely no sense, which is strange since your opening post was quite intelligible.

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I have chosen to 'come out' to a few closer friends.

I'm also older (52) and spent the first half century feeling ashamed, and hiding that I was broken, that something was wrong with me. I was different to everyone else I knew, and was constantly monitoring people's reactions to make sure that they hadn't guessed that I really wasn't interested in sex, or finding a marriage partner.

I (knowingly) met my first asexual people at an AVEN meet up less than one year ago, and until then I had to educate everyone who asked me about asexuality. It was such an exciting thing to meet others who could help me with words for what I felt. To know that I wasn't odd or strange any more.

How else are we going to know who else around might be asexual? I neither flirt, nor spot others flirting with me. Sexual people seem to have their chemistry ways of telling who goes for who. But unless we talk, how can we know each other?

No, I am never going to shout it from the roof tops, and no, I won't use a megaphone. But just as my friends talk about who they think is hot, why can't I quietly and naturally be honest about me, and how I see the world?

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Bad Smell Lingering, I do not agree with your definition of "coming out" as being "an LGBT concept where you aggressively force your personal details down people's throats, presumably to forestall persecution."

To me coming out is simply revealing your sexual orientation to someone. How you come out and why you come out are not part of the definition of "coming out" to me.

Cathy

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chair jockey

I have chosen to 'come out' to a few closer friends.

I'm also older (52) and spent the first half century feeling ashamed, and hiding that I was broken, that something was wrong with me. I was different to everyone else I knew, and was constantly monitoring people's reactions to make sure that they hadn't guessed that I really wasn't interested in sex, or finding a marriage partner.

I (knowingly) met my first asexual people at an AVEN meet up less than one year ago, and until then I had to educate everyone who asked me about asexuality. It was such an exciting thing to meet others who could help me with words for what I felt. To know that I wasn't odd or strange any more.

How else are we going to know who else around might be asexual? I neither flirt, nor spot others flirting with me. Sexual people seem to have their chemistry ways of telling who goes for who. But unless we talk, how can we know each other?

No, I am never going to shout it from the roof tops, and no, I won't use a megaphone. But just as my friends talk about who they think is hot, why can't I quietly and naturally be honest about me, and how I see the world?

There's nothing wrong with being honest about yourself. in fact, it is the right thing to do. I have told people that I'm asexual, with no qualms, the few times it has come up in conversation. But that's not what "coming out" means. "Coming out" is an LGBT concept where you aggressively force your personal details down people's throats, presumably to forestall persecution. The history of the concept of "coming out" has an air of ostentatiousness and aggression to it that might be appropriate to persecuted minorities, but is not appropriate for asexuals. And, yes, if the topic of being asexual doesn't come up for any reason and you bring it up out of nowhere just because you want to "have people know how you feel," then you are indeed grabbing a megaphone and shouting it from the rooftops. Let the LGBT crowd do that because of the peculiar issues they face. We asexuals don't face the same issues, and it's time we stopped aping their conduct.

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Bad Smell Lingering, on 19 Mar 2014 - 5:30 PM, said:

But that's not what "coming out" means. "Coming out" is an LGBT concept where you aggressively force your personal details down people's throats, presumably to forestall persecution. The history of the concept of "coming out" has an air of ostentatiousness and aggression to it that might be appropriate to persecuted minorities, but is not appropriate for asexuals. And, yes, if the topic of being asexual doesn't come up for any reason and you bring it up out of nowhere just because you want to "have people know how you feel," then you are indeed grabbing a megaphone and shouting it from the rooftops. Let the LGBT crowd do that because of the peculiar issues they face. We asexuals don't face the same issues, and it's time we stopped aping their conduct.

That's a pretty nasty condemnation of what homosexual people have done over the last 40 years in order to gain simple human rights. And it certainly is not up to you to do decide what is "appropriate" for asexuals (or anyone) to do.

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  • 3 weeks later...

i also am not in love with using the term "coming out" as relates to my asexuality and i agree that it's a term that does not transfer well from lgbt community. it just doesn't seem to fit.

that said, i do have a need to speak about my non-needs at times. like many of the mature asexies here, i have well meaning friends and family who are constantly trying to set me up with a partner... in the past i have simply begged them to stop without giving much of an explanation. however now that i have discovered this community and network, it has occurred to to me that i can simply be honest with them (because i am now honest with myself). i just didn't have the language to permit me to do that in the past - now i do.

i did tell two people about my asexualness today, but i did not feel that i was "coming out" to them - i just felt that i was being honest. and though i do not have any intention of shouting out about my self discovery, i do feel that word about asexuality needs to be out there. as someone has already mentioned, sexual people know how to find each other, but as asexuals, unless we are openly discussing it, we have no way of identifying each other, and, i think we need to. at least i do. i find great comfort in this community and the knowledge that there are others circulating in the world who are similar to me, and i am certain that there are many many many people out there feeling like there is something terribly wrong with them because they don't experience sexual attraction - that was me last week!

anyway, i look at it as simply being honest about who i am, with myself, and with those that i am close to. the term "coming out" just doesn't work for me.

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When I tell people it's so I can be authentic with them and be able to share my disinterest in heavy relationship talk or their view that everyone is either in a relationship or seeking one. I only mention it when not mentioning it would leave me stifled and feeling I have to be inauthentic. It's uncomfortable to stifle myself like that. If they aren't making any assumptions about whether I'm sexual or asexual, I don't have need to mention it. I don't see it as "coming out", but as educating them to expand their narrow view so it can include me.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think that everyone that has expressed themselves here have began to be honest with themselves about how they feel about sex. As for me, I do not even think about it. I isn't something or anything to me. I am at the stage in life that it is a nothing. When I was young, I had the drive to marry and get pregnant. I do not have any of that and haven't for years. I am happy with myself keeping to myself. I believe this to be a natural state of things because humans were not meant to have sex for as long as they live. Now get this, I live in a druggy infested apartment complex. Just today some of those idiots were sexually harassing me. I'm in my fifties, and these 20 something brain burned morons are doing this. They are so out of reality. What do you people think of this? I am asexual and very happy.

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i have a visible physical handicap.people assume that i'm not sexual .after all these years they may be right.but i'd like to have a close relationship.

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I think that everyone that has expressed themselves here have began to be honest with themselves about how they feel about sex. As for me, I do not even think about it. I isn't something or anything to me. I am at the stage in life that it is a nothing. When I was young, I had the drive to marry and get pregnant. I do not have any of that and haven't for years. I am happy with myself keeping to myself. I believe this to be a natural state of things because humans were not meant to have sex for as long as they live. Now get this, I live in a druggy infested apartment complex. Just today some of those idiots were sexually harassing me. I'm in my fifties, and these 20 something brain burned morons are doing this. They are so out of reality. What do you people think of this? I am asexual and very happy.maybe you should move to a place with older people.i lived in a complex with younger people and it can be uncomfortable.

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.I myself wouldn't ever shout from roof tops!

I think the LGBT are a little flamboyant and attention seekers.

We do need to tell others for education!

As for general communication we should be free and open to telling others.

The term coming out, I don't think it fits us as a Community young or old.

I agree us older folks should handle ourselves different than the younger

Setting an example. One day we Asexuals will be known .

No two people are alike and we are all seeking to be herd, known, understood,

and free from scrutinizing people.

So yes how we conduct our self is extremely important.

Mature people are just that mature!

younins will be more flamboyant because their young.

Let them be young, they will be like us soon enough.

I do agree tho we should not come on to general population like LGBT.

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  • 2 months later...
binary suns

I'm only 24 and I don't exactly anticipate much need to "come out" in the near future. the only pressure I've felt, is the occasional sex-related joke in work, which are sometimes kinda funny anyway, or like that wedding I was at, when my aunt asked me if I was next... like, my coworkers are easy to bring up weekends or work or their interests (pets, hobbies) and my relatives I rarely see so if I talk about work or ask about them I can avoid the topic or w/e.

plus, it would really be more of a hassle explaining it to a lot of my acquaintances, than to never bring it up out of the blue.

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Bad Smell Lingering, on 16 Mar 2014 - 8:10 PM, said:

daveb has expressed what is, within the context of AVEN, a conservative view. Within AVEN, a certain approach to minority activism is establishmentarian, and comes with the usual protection of vested interests. That's something I'd like all of you to think about, especially those who falsely believe that, by supporting these conservative views, you are advocating some kind of social change.

"Vested interests"? What in the world are you talking about? If you want us to think about something, you should explain it a little more clearly.

It's entirely up to the individual what they say to anyone, for any purpose. I think there comes a point in someone's life where coming out isn't necessary, but that's only MY view, at MY age. I also think that if we have a sexual partner, we should come out to them, and I did. Again, that's MY view. You should give YOUR views as such, not as some spokesperson of AVEN.

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Coming out probably should not be the term we use for an asexual person chosing to become more public about this aspect of thier lives. Maybe a fun term like " sharing the cake" can take the place of " coming out of the closet"

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sillythebard

I also don't like the term coming out. The reason is the same as that Swingers don't wear a black ring on the middle finger. Its to respect others. Asexuals wear black rings on the middle finger. For this reason i don't like to use the term coming out for Asexuals. If we want a term, lets figure something that represents us! I fully understand there are some GLBT Asexuals, who have every right to come out. I am not talking about them.

I like Xavy's post. "Sharing the cake" would be fantastic.

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AprilStorms

What all is so wrong with coming out? Whether or not you like the term, or think aces belong in the LGBT community, or whatever other technicalities people appear to be hyperfocusing on here, it certainly doesn't seem to be a problem! Say I want to let a friend know I'm ace. Maybe it's to stop him thinking I'm gay. Maybe it's to stop this hypothetical friend from trying to set me up on dates. Maybe it's because I felt like it that day. So what? Even if I did take a megaphone to the rooftops - what's the harm? It might get aces a bit more visibility or help some kid find out who they are.

I think coming out (or, for those of you who don't like the term, revealing one's romantic/sexual orientation and/or gender identity but that's a mouthful) is just a personal choice like any other. Perhaps Person A only tells people who need to know - someone he wants to enter a relationship with, or a worried parent. Maybe Person B is very much out and sometimes casually mentions her asexuality (maybe makes sexuality jokes like Ellen Degeneres).

It's their individual choice. And who are you to tell them that they're wrong?

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Coming out is and will always have...... lgbt connitations and should you declare to someone you are "comming out" then do not be surprised in the real world if someone says...so your gay then?

That said..in 50 years I have never heard anyone say..."I'm coming out" when actually being open and honest about who and what they are .....to the intended party.

It's another example I'm afraid of never getting a second chance for a first impression...for me the only asexuals who should use the term are those who are actually under the lgbt groups (gay, bi etc)...and no despite some wanting it...asexuality is not a lgbt franchise..thank you very much

Ultimately it's down to the individual...but don't be surprised ..depending on the words you use....on the reaction you get

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binary suns

it's funny how people complain about nitpicking,

yet wording is so crucial to everything we ever say

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should you declare to someone you are "comming out" then do not be surprised in the real world if someone says...so your gay then?

This is a very fair statement !

As much as we may not like it, the truth is, if we want people to recognize and respect our community for what it is, then we should stop trying to make our community a part of someone else's community that represents SEXUAL people.

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"Coming out" has always meant gays/lesbians giving up the protective coloration they'd assumed -- sometimes even marriage -- and it took a greal deal of courage on their part. I just can't see asexuals in that situation.

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