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Earth Sprite

I'd be willing to bet that all asexuals -- whether they know about it or not -- know that something's different about them, and that they are letting their partners down, and they don't want to talk about it because they'll just feel worse.

Sally, that´s your personal opinion. To generalize that opinion is a mistake, however. Me for example, as an asexual person, have been talking & am willing to talk in the future, too, with my wife, and I am feeling that´s a great thing to communicate with her. And it wasn´t difficult to talk, at all, at the very beginning.

Communication is quite easy & quite useful & quite nice to do.

I tend to agree with Sally overall. If one knows that their sexual partner places a lot of importance on not only the sexual act, but also on enthusiasm for it in general...I think it's hard to tell them you're not enthused and never will be. In my situation and many I've seen here, communication is difficult. It's not impossible, but once certain things are acknowledged and there's nothing left to do but accept it, I agree that the asexual partner can be put in a place of being reminded that they are letting their partner down if the 'talks' continue.

Personally, I don't think my husband finds it easy in the least...it makes him feel like a failure.

As an asexual male I personally felt natural & easy to talk with my wife & did that immediately, after becoming conscious of my own asexuality, that happened after a very long time after we had married. (I didn´t even understand the other theoretical possibility not to talk with her existing, at all,, but in these discussions on AVEN only).

The best experiences & moments of our marriage happened after that discussion above. (There were many good moments in the earlier years, too.)

Communication is the key. I´m convinced of that.

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Oneness

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

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Kagon

But - libido is not something that's the same for all people. Some people have none at all - throughout their lives. Some people have high libido - even throughout old age. Some people seek sexual release only for the sake of....well....release. For others, sexual intimacy is a critical part of feeling connected in their relationship.

It's just one of those things that tends to vary greatly from person to person - and therefore can't really be generalized in any practical way. It's just too different for different people. The key then - is understanding where another person is coming from determining whether or not there is any common ground to meet on. And above all else, it's being respectful even if there *isn't* common ground and you don't inherently understand the other person's point of view.

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Law of Circles

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction.

That's kind of like saying that feet are only meant to be used for running and walking, since that was their "original purpose," and therefore humans shouldn't dance. It doesn't make much sense to me. "Nature" doesn't dictate any inherent, deeper purpose to parts of the body and internal drives/desires - people invent those meanings for themselves. Who's to say that people can't use their feet for dancing if they're so inclined? Dancing can bring great joy and pleasure to themselves and others, even though it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I don't think sex is so different, yet I've never seen anyone argue against dancing because it's "unnatural" (while having sex for purposes other than reproduction seems to receive this criticism a lot). Perhaps that's a reflection of how some aspects of our culture are still quite sex-negative. There's also the common narrative that "love conquers all," which can serve to diminish the problems that can occur due to sexual incompatibility. On top of it all, asexuality still isn't a widely recognized phenomenon. Things like that can make it difficult for people in situations like the OP's to find help and support outside of forums like this one. I can understand how that could be very frustrating.

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Sally
Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Some children masturbate from a very young age, and please don't make any generalizations about older people, or anyone, for that matter. You're coming pretty close to saying that sexuals and people who do have libido are not as good as asexuals and those who don't. And specifically in this thread, AVEN hosts a number of sexual people who are 40 or older, so your stereotypes are extremely unwelcome.

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Oneness

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction.

That's kind of like saying that feet are only meant to be used for running and walking, since that was their "original purpose," and therefore humans shouldn't dance. It doesn't make much sense to me. "Nature" doesn't dictate any inherent, deeper purpose to parts of the body and internal drives/desires - people invent those meanings for themselves. Who's to say that people can't use their feet for dancing if they're so inclined? Dancing can bring great joy and pleasure to themselves and others, even though it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I don't think sex is so different, yet I've never seen anyone argue against dancing because it's "unnatural" (while having sex for purposes other than reproduction seems to receive this criticism a lot). Perhaps that's a reflection of how some aspects of our culture are still quite sex-negative. There's also the common narrative that "love conquers all," which can serve to diminish the problems that can occur due to sexual incompatibility. On top of it all, asexuality still isn't a widely recognized phenomenon. Things like that can make it difficult for people in situations like the OP's to find help and support outside of forums like this one. I can understand how that could be very frustrating.

I kind of knew that someone will reply just like you did but I didnt even once said you cannot or it is wrong to enjoy sex or what ever you are doing walking, eating, sleeping.....so on. You should enjoy everything what you are doing, even cleaning and washing dishes, but that does not change the fact that feet, libido, feeling of hunger serve the natural purpose and everything in nature have a purpose. I think it is very okay to enjoy anything but when people become obsessed about something (and many people are obsessed about sex) then its not healthy and natural anymore. Eating and sleeping are essential things to do, but your life goes on with or without sex. You can eat a chocolate for the pleasure but you dont need it to keep you alive. Some people does not even like chocolate and those people who are obsessed with it becomes fat.

English is not my native language so I dont always find the right words to express what Im saying. But I guess in this forum we can have an open conversation and not be too sensitive about normal conversation. And at least for me there is no superiors or inferiors....no matter what your sexual orientation is.

Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Some children masturbate from a very young age, and please don't make any generalizations about older people, or anyone, for that matter. You're coming pretty close to saying that sexuals and people who do have libido are not as good as asexuals and those who don't. And specifically in this thread, AVEN hosts a number of sexual people who are 40 or older, so your stereotypes are extremely unwelcome.

No, that is not at all what I was saying. That is how you tranlated my words.

There are even 90 years old people who still have libido, even if they cant have a babies anymore...but I guess its less than what 20 years old people have. It is a fact that many people when they mature does not have as strong libido as they had when they were 15 or 20, when their hormons were all over the place and older men for example might lose the capability to have arousal anymore. Ofcourse, we are all individuals and some asexuals havent ever had libido.

First of all, your worth is nothing to do with your libido or sexual orientation so at what point I said asexuals are better?

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Kagon

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction.

That's kind of like saying that feet are only meant to be used for running and walking, since that was their "original purpose," and therefore humans shouldn't dance. It doesn't make much sense to me. "Nature" doesn't dictate any inherent, deeper purpose to parts of the body and internal drives/desires - people invent those meanings for themselves. Who's to say that people can't use their feet for dancing if they're so inclined? Dancing can bring great joy and pleasure to themselves and others, even though it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I don't think sex is so different, yet I've never seen anyone argue against dancing because it's "unnatural" (while having sex for purposes other than reproduction seems to receive this criticism a lot). Perhaps that's a reflection of how some aspects of our culture are still quite sex-negative. There's also the common narrative that "love conquers all," which can serve to diminish the problems that can occur due to sexual incompatibility. On top of it all, asexuality still isn't a widely recognized phenomenon. Things like that can make it difficult for people in situations like the OP's to find help and support outside of forums like this one. I can understand how that could be very frustrating.

I kind of knew that someone will reply just like you did but I didnt even once said you cannot or it is wrong to enjoy sex or what ever you are doing walking, eating, sleeping.....so on. You should enjoy everything what you are doing, even cleaning and washing dishes, but that does not change the fact that feet, libido, feeling of hunger serve the natural purpose and everything in nature have a purpose. I think it is very okay to enjoy anything but when people become obsessed about something (and many people are obsessed about sex) then its not healthy and natural anymore. Eating and sleeping are essential things to do, but your life goes on with or without sex. You can eat a chocolate for the pleasure but you dont need it to keep you alive. Some people does not even like chocolate and those people who are obsessed with it becomes fat.

English is not my native language so I dont always find the right words to express what Im saying. But I guess in this forum we can have an open conversation and not be too sensitive about normal conversation. And at least for me there is no superiors or inferiors....no matter what your sexual orientation is.

Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Some children masturbate from a very young age, and please don't make any generalizations about older people, or anyone, for that matter. You're coming pretty close to saying that sexuals and people who do have libido are not as good as asexuals and those who don't. And specifically in this thread, AVEN hosts a number of sexual people who are 40 or older, so your stereotypes are extremely unwelcome.

No, that is not at all what I was saying. That is how you tranlated my words.

There are even 90 years old people who still have libido, even if they cant have a babies anymore...but I guess its less than what 20 years old people have. It is a fact that many people when they mature does not have as strong libido as they had when they were 15 or 20, when their hormons were all over the place and older men for example might lose the capability to have arousal anymore. Ofcourse, we are all individuals and some asexuals havent ever had libido.

First of all, your worth is nothing to do with your libido or sexual orientation so at what point I said asexuals are better?

I think the bolded part might be part of where some people are where people are taking issue. Because - this simply isn't true for everyone. Some people at 90 have every bit as much libido as they did at 20. Some people at 90 have *more* libido than your *average* person at 20. And - while it is true that some people lose their libido over time, it's a stretch to say it's a fact that "many" do. Many in what context? There are probably just as many people who have a libido but have trouble....*ahem*....preforming in old age as people who lose their libido. And - probably a whole lot more that have no loss of libido at all.

The point is, everyone is different. With libido in particular...there is such a wide range of people and individual circumstances that it's really hard to generalize without discounting someone's experience. And given that everyone is different and there are a lot of people in these forums that don't follow the stereotypes that are "expected" for age and libido, people get sensitive when those stereotypes are continued to be put out there. While I don't think you meant to be offensive here, that doesn't mean that others here didn't take it that way as your stated your views in a way that sounds like you're discounting the experiences of others.

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Corretto

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Hi Oneness...I've encountered the perspective you offer a few times now since I joined this site.

It doesn't work for me for a few reasons; but the major one is regarding your reference to those 30 to 40 year old sexuals that you've met. You believe that their reduced interest in 'mating' will help save this planet from self-destruction! You'll be pleased to know that, due to my declared aromantic and asexual orientation, I'm doing my bit to preserve our civilisation. Had I proved to be a 'sexual', at my present 53 years, I'd presume you'd have applauded my choice to be castrated, in order to stem the flow of what little libido I had left, from my mind to my gonads.

I suppose that's one of the few advantages of aromantic-asexuality...I get to keep my balls! Ciao

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Oneness

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction.

That's kind of like saying that feet are only meant to be used for running and walking, since that was their "original purpose," and therefore humans shouldn't dance. It doesn't make much sense to me. "Nature" doesn't dictate any inherent, deeper purpose to parts of the body and internal drives/desires - people invent those meanings for themselves. Who's to say that people can't use their feet for dancing if they're so inclined? Dancing can bring great joy and pleasure to themselves and others, even though it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I don't think sex is so different, yet I've never seen anyone argue against dancing because it's "unnatural" (while having sex for purposes other than reproduction seems to receive this criticism a lot). Perhaps that's a reflection of how some aspects of our culture are still quite sex-negative. There's also the common narrative that "love conquers all," which can serve to diminish the problems that can occur due to sexual incompatibility. On top of it all, asexuality still isn't a widely recognized phenomenon. Things like that can make it difficult for people in situations like the OP's to find help and support outside of forums like this one. I can understand how that could be very frustrating.

I kind of knew that someone will reply just like you did but I didnt even once said you cannot or it is wrong to enjoy sex or what ever you are doing walking, eating, sleeping.....so on. You should enjoy everything what you are doing, even cleaning and washing dishes, but that does not change the fact that feet, libido, feeling of hunger serve the natural purpose and everything in nature have a purpose. I think it is very okay to enjoy anything but when people become obsessed about something (and many people are obsessed about sex) then its not healthy and natural anymore. Eating and sleeping are essential things to do, but your life goes on with or without sex. You can eat a chocolate for the pleasure but you dont need it to keep you alive. Some people does not even like chocolate and those people who are obsessed with it becomes fat.

English is not my native language so I dont always find the right words to express what Im saying. But I guess in this forum we can have an open conversation and not be too sensitive about normal conversation. And at least for me there is no superiors or inferiors....no matter what your sexual orientation is.

Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:Oneness, on 18 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Some children masturbate from a very young age, and please don't make any generalizations about older people, or anyone, for that matter. You're coming pretty close to saying that sexuals and people who do have libido are not as good as asexuals and those who don't. And specifically in this thread, AVEN hosts a number of sexual people who are 40 or older, so your stereotypes are extremely unwelcome.

No, that is not at all what I was saying. That is how you tranlated my words.

There are even 90 years old people who still have libido, even if they cant have a babies anymore...but I guess its less than what 20 years old people have. It is a fact that many people when they mature does not have as strong libido as they had when they were 15 or 20, when their hormons were all over the place and older men for example might lose the capability to have arousal anymore. Ofcourse, we are all individuals and some asexuals havent ever had libido.

First of all, your worth is nothing to do with your libido or sexual orientation so at what point I said asexuals are better?

I think the bolded part might be part of where some people are where people are taking issue. Because - this simply isn't true for everyone. Some people at 90 have every bit as much libido as they did at 20. Some people at 90 have *more* libido than your *average* person at 20. And - while it is true that some people lose their libido over time, it's a stretch to say it's a fact that "many" do. Many in what context? There are probably just as many people who have a libido but have trouble....*ahem*....preforming in old age as people who lose their libido. And - probably a whole lot more that have no loss of libido at all.

The point is, everyone is different. With libido in particular...there is such a wide range of people and individual circumstances that it's really hard to generalize without discounting someone's experience. And given that everyone is different and there are a lot of people in these forums that don't follow the stereotypes that are "expected" for age and libido, people get sensitive when those stereotypes are continued to be put out there. While I don't think you meant to be offensive here, that doesn't mean that others here didn't take it that way as your stated your views in a way that sounds like you're discounting the experiences of others.

People tend to take everything personally no matter what you say and no matter whats the subject. Someone will always feel offended. How ever I dont take sides and am talking only objectively. Yes people are different and thats great. But body still goes through lots of hormonal and other natural changes during its life time....and what is wrong with that? It is not stereotyping anything, it is just how it is.

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Corretto

Believe me...I took no offence!

That's the problem with social media; we can't exchange all our vibes, like you can in one-to-one conversation.

You made some pretty eco-wacky [my term] comments, that reminded me of David Attenbough's doco's on the BBC.

...and your English is fine! Ciao

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Oneness

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Hi Oneness...I've encountered the perspective you offer a few times now since I joined this site.[/size

It doesn't work for me for a few reasons; but the major one is regarding your reference to those 30 to 40 year old sexuals that you've met. You believe that their reduced interest in 'mating' will help save this planet from self-destruction! You'll be pleased to know that, due to my declared aromantic and asexual orientation, I'm doing my bit to preserve our civilisation. Had I proved to be a 'sexual', at my present 53 years, I'd presume you'd have applauded my choice to be castrated, in order to stem the flow of what little libido I had left, from my mind to my gonads.

I suppose that's one of the few advantages of aromantic-asexuality...I get to keep my balls! Ciao

Children does not have any libido and older people there is less libido. And that is totally as it should be because libido serves purpose in nature, it is not there for the sake of human pleasure but for reproduction. Does not sound romantic but Im realistic. Anyhow, since there is over population on Earth...Asexuals and celibates are actually blessing to the Earth. Many people have tried to tell me that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life, but ofcourse I dont agree, because its not. I have met sexuals 30-40 years old people who are already lost their libido in some extend.....they are looking more from life than runing around and fullfill their libido, so I dont think libido is only physical thing, mind and body is connected.

Hi Oneness...I've encountered the perspective you offer a few times now since I joined this site.

It doesn't work for me for a few reasons; but the major one is regarding your reference to those 30 to 40 year old sexuals that you've met. You believe that their reduced interest in 'mating' will help save this planet from self-destruction! You'll be pleased to know that, due to my declared aromantic and asexual orientation, I'm doing my bit to preserve our civilisation. Had I proved to be a 'sexual', at my present 53 years, I'd presume you'd have applauded my choice to be castrated, in order to stem the flow of what little libido I had left, from my mind to my gonads.

I suppose that's one of the few advantages of aromantic-asexuality...I get to keep my balls! Ciao

Hi espresso ! :)

Well, this whole over population thing goes way out of the subject talked here...actually. And sorry about that. I was referring to that when some people argue that reproduction is the whole purpose of human life and if everyone would be like asexuals or live like celibates or gays humans would disappear. And at least in my own life, I have heard this argued more than once.

It is actually opposite since over population makes lots of people suffer all over the world and animals too. I lived in Asia where covernment tries to reduce the number of children to be born by having a campaign 2+1 =3 meaning that every married couble should do only 1 child , not more. Even on public cars, busses so on were 2+1=3 posters. So I was just telling, how in some countries over population is huge and real problem. Thats all.

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mrbeanatural

I totally understand where you're coming from and agree with you. Some things can help the situation; therapy, compromise, etc. I've done it all. But at the end of the day you face the fact that you just aren't desired in that way by the person you love. Your options are to stay, or to leave. It can send you into the depths of despair. I envy those with the courage to end these relationships. Alas, I do not. So, I too, am rather without hope right now of anything getting better. It's not fair to her either as I find myself being less and less attracted to my wife. I'm phoning in my marriage, which is something I never wanted or expected to do or become.

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Earth Sprite

Maybe there are a lot of cases, where our self esteem isn´t depending mainly on that, how desirable we are sexually, but how wanted we were as a child, for our own parents? If that would be a true presumption, should we then, in such cases, deal much more with our childhood disappointments, than our nowadays sexual frustration? Maybe that could help some of us to find more self esteem, then?

Just thinking.

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Percivel

I think that, from our childhood on, most of us crave/need for someone...one person... to be absolutely crazy about us. As children it is usually our parents. As adults it is usually the person we find love with. For most sexuals, I think, a big part of the "being crazy about us" includes sexual intimacy. In fact, it is usually expected. When sexual intimacy is absent, we seem to lose many of the feelings of the other person "being crazy about us."

Childhood trauma or the lack of someone being "crazy about us" as a child can certainly throw us for a loop when we become adults.

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Earth Sprite

I think that, from our childhood on, most of us crave/need for someone...one person... to be absolutely crazy about us. As children it is usually our parents. As adults it is usually the person we find love with. For most sexuals, I think, a big part of the "being crazy about us" includes sexual intimacy. In fact, it is usually expected. When sexual intimacy is absent, we seem to lose many of the feelings of the other person "being crazy about us."

Childhood trauma or the lack of someone being "crazy about us" as a child can certainly throw us for a loop when we become adults.

>>> [...] most of us crave/need for someone...one person... to be absolutely crazy about us [...] a big part of the "being crazy about us" includes sexual intimacy. [...] When sexual intimacy is absent, we seem to lose many of the feelings of the other person "being crazy about us." [...] Childhood trauma or the lack of someone being "crazy about us" as a child can certainly throw us for a loop when we become adults.

May I ask you to describe by other words, what do you mean by that 'crazy about us'? Is it love? Or not? Some other thing? I can't understand.

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Sally
Oneness, on 21 May 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:
It is not stereotyping anything, it is just how it is.

It is not how it is for everyone, so it's not objective fact.

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Percivel

Yes, love. But a deep love.

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