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Crying

Guess there's no hope.

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Frucious

GreyelvenRanger

I can accept the anger from Crying, it's her life that has been affected. I see how this could feel like a betrayal to her and she should be allowed to vent her frustrations.

It's the rush to judgement from others on the forum I take issue with. Bandying terms around like “active deceit” and calling the man a liar or a fraud serve no purpose other than to stoke the flames of an already bad situation. I believe others on here should try and show some restraint. Give sympathy and understanding to the woman but don't make things worse.

I'll say again, it seems to me this man is in outright denial of his feelings. This would go some way to explain his hostility when confronted by Crying and indeed the reality of the situation. To me, and this is speculation, it's not just that he's unwilling to be open and honest but incapable. Therapy seems like the best place for him to be at the moment although I feel Crying should also involve herself.

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Kagon

I also feel that the husband may be incapable of honest communication about this at the moment, and that therapy is something that is critical for him. I've already made a post detailing this - explaining why I thought the therapist was seeking individual sessions with him. I agree that Crying involving herself in the monthly check-ins would be the best course of action, but I also understand her frustration about feeling "kicked out" of being involved in the therapy. That is her choice though - and it may be something she's more comfortable with if she gets some perspective on why the therapist may have targeted him for individual sessions in the first place.

As for the general reactions in the post - we have to consider this thread as a whole here. Consider that when the OP came in, she was understandably upset and frustrated - and posted venting her frustrations and anger while looking for support. Most of the early responders were less than supportive. Then - enter some of the sexual members on this site that actually have some common ground and understand that anger, frustration and venting for what it is. *THESE* members have been on the defensive on the OP's behalf ever since their first posts. Some of them have responded harshly, *just as the first people who responded to the OP responded harshly since the first post in this thread*. This has resulted in both sides being overly defensive of their stance throughout the *ENTIRE THREAD* that just keeps escalating. Even 6 pages into the thread there are arguments as to whether or not "most" people correlate sex with love or not - this doesn't help the OP so long as *SHE* does. Her viewpoint here is all that matters, as it's *her* relationship and *she* is the one affected in it. So yes, I will agree that there are posts where people may not be considering exactly where the husband is coming from, but there are just as many people disregarding where the OP is coming from as well. I will agree that the *WHOLE* of the reactions here have been unfortunate, but that's not exactly one-sided.

Also, keep in mind that most of the people who have been coming to the defense of the OP are sexual people with asexual partners. They're coming at this from that perspective. If they've had partners that were honest about not having sexual interest even before having language to describe it, that's the perspective and understanding that they are bringing at the problem. But - regardless of any of that an abrupt change in behavior is going to be hurtful to a partner and is not going to be taken well. I understand that it may not have been intentionally deceptive, but it *was* deceptive regardless. Some other asexuals have given reasons why it may not have been intentional, but regardless it *is* on the husband to communicate and come to an understanding *now*. That hasn't happened. We could go round in circles as to why, but it still doesn't change the situation being what it is.

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Sally

No matter the content or attitude of an OP, threads eventually take on their own life. After all, this is the internet, where we're not really in a conversation; we have the choice of either reading or not reading each post, and then responding based on our own feelings that may be based on our experience rather than what the OP or anyone else has stated. And in this particular section of AVEN, we're inevitably talking about someone who hasn't even posted: the sexual or asexual partner. Thus, we're talking about a one-dimensional ghost: the partner the OP portrays.

After some time of this back-and-forth, it comes clear (to me, at least) that if the OP is very unhappy and the partners can't achieve some sort of compromise, the OP must come to a decision. That decision could be to actually do nothing and just continue ragging at their partner, or silently stewing (ina guest bedroom). Or it could be to end the contentious, unhappy partnership.

In cases on this thread when the OP has essentially said, "I'm terribly unhappy and frustrated and my partner's to blame and I keep trying to get him to talk (i.e., to change) but I can't end the marriage for reasons X, Y, Z et al.", then I get frustrated myself and should at that point stop commenting. Unfortunately, I often continue.

But this time I'll stop.

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Skullery Maid

Sympathy is likely low with Crying's husband because it's one of those worst-case scenarios. Immediate behavior change, refusal to discuss, seemingly deceptive behavior pre-marriage. I think it's a common fear, and unfortunately not an uncommon event, to wake up and wonder "who did I actually marry?" It sucks, but some people really do change after marriage, and it is never for the better. I'm not going to debate the intentionality of it, but willfully or not, it is deceptive. It's a nightmare. You have to reconsider the life you were leading. Reality is upended. And if that isn't shitty enough, now you're stuck unraveling a marriage you never agreed to. It's horrible and it really is a big deal.

We all take these stories very personally. I know I have to remind myself not to identify with sexual behavior that I don't actually engage in. I doubt that the asexuals on this thread would treat someone they love the way Crying's husband is treating her. I think sometimes it's helpful to take a step back and think "wait, would I actually behave this way and feel good about it?"

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radiantheart

I know his behaviour makes me sad. But I'm not him. And I'm not her. So all I can do is share what I've experienced (not much) and hope things get better somehow and someone else gives advice that helps. :\

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Percivel

My ace wife shuts down and gets very upset/depressed when I try to talk to her about our sexual differences. It can last from one day to three weeks. Yesterday,I learned why. We were talking about another topic which brings out great emotion in her as well,,but, not quite as strongly as our sexual differences. My wife told me that when these emotions arise in her, they overwhelm her. She said it is a physiological thing that she feels she has no control over. Her thoughts and emotions get over-run by the conflict and pain she experiences and she does not know how to handle them. Her emotions go wild. Her thoughts run rampid, and she even feels physically ill at times. She feels overwhelmed and she needs time to work out the emotions and thoughts.

It can sound (and it certainly feels) like she is playing games and being unfair and manipulating. For sexuals it's probably similar to when we are knee deep in our dark place. My wife cannot control it. She does not know how to deal with it. So, she shuts down, cries, and gets severely depressed. She tries like hell to snap out of it but it often takes time. We don't fight about it. We try to just ride out the "storm." Now that I know what she is going through, I understand better. What we in mixed relationships are experiencing is very powerful...very unpredictable...and very emotional...for both partners. Understanding how our aces are dealing with the issue is a key for us sexuals who choose to stay with our beloved aces, There are likely many reasons why the ace may have a hard time communicating what they are going through and why they might be acting the way they are..

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Sally

I would bet that most asexuals in mixed relationships feel an overwhelming sense of not being normal. How could we not? All we have to do is look outside our homes and we see and hear how many people enjoy sex. We dont, and we don't know why, and we may at some time (or in some cases, like me, for a lonnnnng time) tried to do it well and enjoyably. That didn't work. When our partners try to talk with us about it, it just feels worse, because talk doesn't help. If we could talk ourselves into liking/wanting sex, we would have.

That's just a reflection on what Percivel said above: "My ace wife shuts down and gets very upset/depressed when I try to talk to her about our sexual differences". Just thinking about it, I get upset and depressed.

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Lady Girl

I would bet that most asexuals in mixed relationships feel an overwhelming sense of not being normal. How could we not? All we have to do is look outside our homes and we see and hear how many people enjoy sex. We dont, and we don't know why, and we may at some time (or in some cases, like me, for a lonnnnng time) tried to do it well and enjoyably. That didn't work. When our partners try to talk with us about it, it just feels worse, because talk doesn't help. If we could talk ourselves into liking/wanting sex, we would have.

That's just a reflection on what Percivel said above: "My ace wife shuts down and gets very upset/depressed when I try to talk to her about our sexual differences". Just thinking about it, I get upset and depressed.

I'm pretty sure that's how my husband feels...he even says he's a failure at times. I don't think he is, but I can see how me trying to express some of my feelings about this might sound like I'm telling him he is. I think it's good to get things out on the table, but I honestly feel that at some point, like Sally says, talking does not help.

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Skullery Maid

I think it's good to get things out on the table, but I honestly feel that at some point, like Sally says, talking does not help.

Definitely. Sometimes we have to talk about it because otherwise it becomes the elephant in the room... When that tension builds, we talk about it and that actually helps. Talking for almost any other reason has not been particularly productive for me, personally. I used to try to push about why she felt how she felt, and tried to make a million comparisions, but those conversations never ended well. I get that. I wouldn't want to be treated like a specimen under a microscope either.

For whatever reason, though, we still need to verbally acknowledge that we're not having sex every now and again.

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Serran

Yeah, I can relate to not liking to talk about it. Because honestly, after a while, it is just repeating the same "Well you want something I don't and can't give so..." And all we can do is just sit there and hear how much we are hurting our partners by being who we are and not being able to do anything about it. My partner asks me at times if I like something he does, even though I have already explained the whole "I do not get turned on, I do not like sex, I do not like sexual touch" and so when he does, I cringe. He wants the answer to be different, but it is akways no and then we have the "it sucks and hurts you don't enjoy that" talk and it just makes me want to either not speak, or lie.. but neither of those would be good, so it turns into essentially a "I wish you were different" which feels pretty bad to hear as an ace.

It takes a lot of patience and strength to be honest and open when you know your reward for it is just to hear how disappointing you are to your partner. No matter how my partner tries to word it, that is essentially what he is saying. My lack of desire for sex is disappointing and hurtful and he wishes I could change. Knowing how that feels to hear, I try to not even bring up how much I wish I could have non-sexual cuddles, it isn't something he can give and hearing "I really want/miss something you are incapable of" would just hurt him and I still wouldn't get the cuddles I want.

Communication is vital to making mixed relationships work. But, that doesn't make it easy. And some people if hurt/embarrassed get defensive and mean. My partner used to, it took me years to get him to tell me what an issue was and talk it over instead of just getting mean/angry and leaving me puzzled. It sucks and if a person cannot communicate, for whatever reason, you can't force them. Which leaves accept it, work on it, or leave unfortunately.

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Skullery Maid

Knowing how that feels to hear, I try to not even bring up how much I wish I could have non-sexual cuddles, it isn't something he can give and hearing "I really want/miss something you are incapable of" would just hurt him and I still wouldn't get the cuddles I want.

Aww, that's nice of you!! We try to avoid those topics too. I would get really defensive, and yell that I know she doesn't want sex and I'm not trying to have sex so could she get off my back already? I understand that she can tell that I get all sexual feeling and that ruins it for her but I can't help it, so it just makes me feel shitty to hear about how I can't even cuddle right.

On the flip side, whenever she asks if she's good in bed I say yes soooo muchhhh! because what would the point be in saying "no, dear, you're not, because now that I know you don't really want it, it's not very exciting". All that would do is hurt her feelings.

It's hard enough being criticized for one's behavior, but being criticized for one's feelings is awful.

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WorldHero

From what I am reading here, it looks like my husband may be asexual.

This is a nightmare. I don't want to find sex outside of my marriage, nor do I want to be celebate. I want what most people get when they marry...a partner who enjoys and desires sex with me.

I guess it doesn't matter what I want. This is what I have. I can either take it or leave him, but I'm not going to get a man that loves and wants me.

This is a nightmare.

Asexual doesn't always mean celebacy. I'm relatively new to asexuality, but I still enjoy sex. Not dating anyone now to have it, but I still enjoy it. I'm not attracted to anyone either. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy sex. And being asexual doesn't mean they don't love you anymore. Being asexual just means we're not sexually attracted to people. But we can still be attracted to them in a different way.

Besides, how do you know he's asexual? For all you know, you could be worrying about nothing at all. c:

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Sally
Serran, on 07 Apr 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:Serran, on 07 Apr 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

It takes a lot of patience and strength to be honest and open when you know your reward for it is just to hear how disappointing you are to your partner. No matter how my partner tries to word it, that is essentially what he is saying. My lack of desire for sex is disappointing and hurtful and he wishes I could change. Knowing how that feels to hear, I try to not even bring up how much I wish I could have non-sexual cuddles, it isn't something he can give and hearing "I really want/miss something you are incapable of" would just hurt him and I still wouldn't get the cuddles I want.

I'm now remembering the years-long knowledge that if I indicated I'd like to cuddle, I had to accept that sex would necessarily come with it, because that was supposedly the signal for sex. And that brings up something that's been touched on in a number of threads, but I'm going to make it brutally plain here.

Just as the sexual is disappointed and hurt that their partner doesn't want sexual physical intimacy, the asexual can be disappointed and hurt that their partner doesn't want -- and very often just doesn't understand -- non-sexual physical intimacy. But the sexual thinks of themselves as the norm (and so does everyone else), and thus the asexual is deviating from that norm -- i.e., the partner who's delivering the disappointment to the normal sexual. That was so disheartening, because I didn't get what I want any more than my partner, and yet I was the one at fault.

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Percivel

Before I learned bout asexuality, my hope was in that one day my ace wife might change. That was my hope for many years. After I learned about asexuality and understood that my wife can not change...that that way was shut...my hope changed (it had to change!) to the fact that I needed to change. Some question "Why stay in a relationship if it makes one (or both) miserable?" The answer to that...particularly to many of us that are married...is because we have hope in the relationship. That we are committed to finding a way. That our love is real and worth fighting for. That love is more than emotion and sexuality. We hope that our love will be stronger and greater than sexual intimacy. We believe, or at least have hope, that we can find a way to work it out. That the sacrifice and suffering will be worth it in the end. We believe we MUST find a way. Our ace is counting on us to find a way....because the ace way is shut...they can not change.

I believe love requires sacrifice and that sometimes sacrifice is very painful. But, I also believe that love can change those painful sacrifices and turn them into joyful sacrifices. Not an easy thing to do. First my mind and heart must change. I believe love to be "wanting anothers good." If this is the case, then the good that happens to the one I love...becomes my good. The sacrifices I make for the good of my beloved then becomes my good...and my joy.

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Serran

Knowing how that feels to hear, I try to not even bring up how much I wish I could have non-sexual cuddles, it isn't something he can give and hearing "I really want/miss something you are incapable of" would just hurt him and I still wouldn't get the cuddles I want.

Aww, that's nice of you!! We try to avoid those topics too. I would get really defensive, and yell that I know she doesn't want sex and I'm not trying to have sex so could she get off my back already? I understand that she can tell that I get all sexual feeling and that ruins it for her but I can't help it, so it just makes me feel shitty to hear about how I can't even cuddle right.

*nods* We have sex a lot though, so it does kinda suck that I compromise on what he wants but there is no way he can compromise for what I want. Last month we had sex nearly every day of the month, but I got non-sexual affection perhaps twice. But, no point bringing it up to him, since he can't change it. It's an accept or leave situation and discussing it does nothing but hurt him to make myself feel better. Which would feel selfish.

Just as the sexual is disappointed and hurt that their partner doesn't want sexual physical intimacy, the asexual can be disappointed and hurt that their partner doesn't want -- and very often just doesn't understand -- non-sexual physical intimacy. But the sexual (thinks of themselves as the norm (and so does everyone else), and thus the asexual is deviating from that norm -- i.e., the partner who's delivering the disappointment to the normal sexual. That was so disheartening, because I didn't get what I want because I was the one at fault.

Exactly.

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Pip Pirrip

Over the past few months I’ve been working so hard to keep mine and my partner’s intimacy intact through non sexual touching and cuddling basically when I realized that she no longer seemed interested in sex. At first I thought she was bored with me then along with that I thought it might be the medication she is on which she always says is to blame but I’m not sure if that is actually the case or if it’s her way of not telling me that she isn’t attracted to me. Anyway I always try and find out what contact she does like and do that. Like I give her massages, baby kisses(she likes me to kiss her eyes), hair stroking which she loves and I find that in return she has been more and more affectionate to me and touches me back more, which is her way of saying that she loves me since she rarely says that out loud because she says it is lip service and that love is a lifestyle. I’m old fashioned, I like to hear the words every so often but it is yet another way she feels pressured so I just leave it at that. I do know that she was once attracted to me because she pursued me and told me she was and she once liked sex and told me that mad people are still entitled to a sex life. She was really the first person I ever felt that special connection to when where were sexually intimate. Not just that but she is the first person I really opened up to in that way so it’s a little confusing to me. The idea that it may have been an act (her attraction to me), is really unsettling and makes me question my perceptions about nearly everything and makes me constantly say to myself “don’t assume anything” but I do it unconsciously anyway then I have to back track and go, hang on a minute, especially with her because she is so changeable. But she is who I want and the most important person in my life, so end of.

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Mona Lisa

I feel like Crying's story has a few crucial details missing that are convoluting what is happening with her marriage. Let me see if I can get these facts straight.

1. Crying says her husband prior to the marriage seemed to want sex and engaged in a good deal of sexual behavior.

2. When he became her fiance and after they married, Crying says, her husband's attitude toward sex changed.

3. When she approached her husband about his behavior, he said he wasn't interested in sex, Crying says.

Crying, did he say that he wasn't interested in sex at that moment in time... or did he mean he had never been interested in sex at all?

The reason I ask is because that could mean the difference between him having some kind of problem (be it psychological, emotional, relational, physical or a combination) or him actually being asexual (as in, no dysfunction, and therefore not "fixable"). For example, if someone becomes severely depressed, they can experience a sudden and dramatic loss of interest in activities they once enjoyed, or the libido can plummet. Crying has said that she suspected he is asexual, but he denied it when she asked him, and she still feels that he was pretending to be something he wasn't. We can't know if he was being deceptive if we a.) don't know his reason/motivation for lack of sexual interest and b.) don't know whether he was aware of his own reason/motivation or to what extent.

Crying, I do sympathize with your plight but I have to wonder if you weren't jumping too quickly into conclusions. Marriage, as I'm to understand it, is about your partner's needs as much as your own. It's possible that your husband has a serious problem and that he just shuts down when confronted with it (feelings of guilt and shame, confusion, doubt, fear of rejection, etc.). That may be why the therapist is giving him individual therapy sessions. His problem is the cause of your problem. You are not the problem; his problem is the problem. The therapist needs to determine what that is exactly and if it is something that can be resolved, and he or she isn't going to get those answers by listening to a couple bicker. Of course I wasn't sitting in the room with the three of you, so I can't say that you were being combative. People who are hurt can lash out and cause more hurt. For all we know, he could be suffering silently, and any semblance of hostility on your part is going to send him immediately into defensive mode.

When you talk to your husband about marriage issues, frame your statements around your feelings ("I feel X because Y" and "It hurts me when X because Y") rather than statements directed at him ("You do/don't do X" or "You make me feel X" or "You're being/acting X"). This will keep him from feeling verbally assaulted, and help communication remain open instead of lapsing into the stalemate of bickering that the therapist was trying to avoid. For now, he needs to be heard, as your feelings have already been established.

Your needs should be met after the counselor has assessed the situation thoroughly; if not, find someone else to help. I implore you to be patient in your dealings with both your husband and the therapist. Keep an open mind to the possibility that he is not fully in control of his behavior or feelings. If you do discover that your husband was never interested in sex, and it is causing irreversible harm to you and/or your relationship, you have every right to end it. You deserve happiness, and it doesn't sound at all like you're getting it in this situation. I hope that your husband is able to speak openly and honestly in these sessions so you can get the answers you need to either fix your marriage or to move on. Good luck, Crying, and hang in there!

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Mycroft is Yourcroft

I have a question Crying, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. How long where you in a relationship with Mr Crying before you got married? Thing I'm trying to pinpoint is how long he was being/ faking sexual for, as that may shed a new perspective based on the answer

Hope things are a little better :)

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Earth Sprite

I have a feeling, that I am Mr. Crying.

:mellow:

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Percivel

Oh. Well welcome then, sir!!! I hope you find our place helpful!

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Earth Sprite

Oh. Well welcome then, sir!!! I hope you find our place helpful!

Thank you. Guess there's no hope, however. Love is blind.

Kind regards,

Earth Sprite

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Percivel

Ahhh...but there is! Your girl sounds very passionate! And very passionate for you! The fact that she is here and wanting to find out what is going on says a lot. I believe she loves you quite a bit...and she wants your love! It takes time, though, to figure things out...to get over the shock...to communicate...to work on it. It is a very good sign that you are here, too.

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YeOldeToast

If I recall correctly though, unless I skipped over something and missed it, Mr Crying still hasn't come out as an ace to her, but your profile says you are indeed an ace. What's up with that? Is that a recent realisation or something or am I just stupid? Sorry, just wondering.

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Earth Sprite

I have been misrepresented by those who don´t know me. I have always been father, and will always be father. I am not distant and angry, but am the complete expression of love.

As a shepherd carries a lamb,

Earth Sprite :mellow:

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Skullery Maid

I have been misrepresented by those who don´t know me. I have always been father, and will always be father. I am not distant and angry, but am the complete expression of love.

As a shepherd carries a lamb,

Earth Sprite :mellow:

Why are you saying this? You are obviously not Crying's husband. You've been married for 30 years and are from what, Norway? I don't understand the motivation to say you are.

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Earth Sprite
Why are you saying this? You are obviously not Crying's husband. You've been married for 30 years and are from what, Norway? I don't understand the motivation to say you are.

Skullery Maid (and all of you),

I said, that I have a feeling, that I am Mr. Crying.

Kind regards,

Earth Sprite

P.S. Please, watch the Percivel´s profile, too. I have also a feeling, than I am Don Quijote. :mellow:

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Sally
Why are you saying this? You are obviously not Crying's husband. You've been married for 30 years and are from what, Norway? I don't understand the motivation to say you are.

Skullery Maid (and all of you),

I said, that I have a feeling, that I am Mr. Crying.

Kind regards,

Earth Sprite

P.S. Please, watch the Percivel´s profile, too. I have also a feeling, than I am Don Quijote. :mellow:

What you've said is fairly deceptive. Not kosher to do that, especially in a thread which contains very honest discussion by sexuals and asexuals.

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Earth Sprite

Sally,

I agree, this thread contains very honest discussion by sexuals and asexuals, being one of the most important threads I have ever read, when trying to understand my own fragile identity in that same kind of situation full of interpretations & allegations, so genuinely discussed above. :mellow:

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Skullery Maid

Why are you saying this? You are obviously not Crying's husband. You've been married for 30 years and are from what, Norway? I don't understand the motivation to say you are.

Skullery Maid (and all of you),

I said, that I have a feeling, that I am Mr. Crying.

Kind regards,

Earth Sprite

P.S. Please, watch the Percivel´s profile, too. I have also a feeling, than I am Don Quijote. :mellow:

If you'll notice, that's not the post of yours I quoted. Your first post I assumed was just a language difference. But then you responded to two subsequent posters as though you really are Crying's actual husband. That's what was weird, that when two people misunderstood / questioned your identity, you didn't correct them.

Anyway, that stuff doesn't matter.

What about this story do you identify with? Does your wife not know that you consider yourself asexual? Do you fear she feels alone, rejected, confused, sad? Have you talked to her about your concerns?

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Earth Sprite

Skullery Maid,

Thank you for your notice. It would have been more productive to indicate my earlier words to Perceval personally.

We got married with my wife, when we both hadn´t any knowledge of asexuality. We didn´t even heard a word 'asexuality' a long time after that. My wife was the first one, that I discussed with, when at last understanding a bit. We both have been feeling rejection, confusion & sadness, that you mentioned above. Because this is our common journey to fulfill, we have always been trying to be open & communicate. The first weeks after marriage were the most difficult, and I was so innocent, that I didn´t understand why, for many years.

Kind regards,

Earth Sprite :mellow:

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