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Crying

Guess there's no hope.

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LeaveOnYourColours

I can't help but think about how your husband would feel if you actually reacted to him this way. I can imagine he'd feel like he finally thought he found someone he loved who loved him and who he was about to tie the knot with (most asexuals feel like this could never happen to them). But that person was ready to go back on everything that was built just because of his sexuality. To accept him so thoroughly and then take that away when he opened up to you would hurt. Really bad.

You have a right to your feelings, just as he has to his, but you should see both sides and discuss, discuss, discuss since you've already come so far! Not all hope is lost. Compromise is the most important part of any relationship.

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Sally

. Compromise is the most important part of any relationship.

Compromise, to be successful, has to be mutually agreeable. "Just because of his sexuality" isn't a fair way to phrase it; the sexual realm is a big thing to both sexuals and asexuals. If either party feels that they can't compromise to the point that the other would be agreeable, continued discussion is not going to be useful.

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lissi

I don't think Crying has gone back on everything just because of his sexuality. She fell in love with someone who was not real, who pretended to be someone he was not. Pretending to be sexual when you are not is a dangerous game. Someone doing so is likely to cause hurt and get hurt. Crying has every right to be angry with him. Whether or not he understood the importance of the deception, she has been deceived and she has been hurt.

Myself, I might've been able to compromise on the sex, but never on the honesty.

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crucis

I don't think compromise is going to salvage the relationship. Crying and her husband seem restricted to mutually incompatible paradigms on love. They are unable to relate to each others' feelings on the matter.

Crying's stance is absolutely clear: There is no relationship and no romantic love without sex and commensurate sexual desire. If a partner does not deliver on both counts - if, for example, he forces himself to have sex because he loves her and doesn't want to lose her - compromise will mean nothing.

Her husband's idea of love, on the other hand, renders him nothing more than a platonic friend to her. He doesn't seem to make the connection between sex and love. It is possible that his age contributes to making that connection more tenuous than it used to be, and that he assumes (due to conventional wisdom on the negative relationship between age and sexual desire) that this applies to Crying as well.

None of this affects the validity of both their stances. It just means that they aren't a good match.

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lissi

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

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crucis

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

I would need to hear his take on it first.. As far as this thread is concerned, he has been curiously silent on the matter.

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Feral_Sophisticate

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

I would need to hear his take on it first.. As far as this thread is concerned, he has been curiously silent on the matter.

Right, and we're only engaging in her side of the story - which is not said to minimize Crying's very real pain and suffering.

The reason I originally advocated therapy is because it would allow both sides to get their issues out on the table. Crying is upset because the therapist is focusing on her husband, and not her. I was obviously not present for the initial meeting with the therapist, but if the counsellor got the impression that the one with the biggest challenges on the table was the husband, then I can certainly understand. If Crying was as open and able to express her feelings at the first session (as it seems that she was), I suspect her husband didn't say a whole lot, or only had the opportunity to offer a rebuttal here and there. Crying, I don't know you or your husband. I don't know his motivations or yours, and I certainly don't know what he's thinking or feeling at this moment.

I do know that therapy will work with both of you and allow you each to wade through the emotional minefield that you're currently trapped in - even if this means that the sessions are primarily between the counsellor and your husband.

Like I'd said before, if you're that concerned that your voice isn't being heard, tell that to the therapist. Only they can offer the sort of guidance that you may seek. We cannot, as we cannot see both sides of the story. The counsellor is much more capable of doing that, as they are at least hearing your husband's side of the story.

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theotherfey

Your husband might not know what asexuality is, so he never told you. A lot of aces out there don't know there is such a thing. Think of how he's feeling. He can't give you what you want, and he might be confused. You also make it sound like we asexuals are bad people. We can love and have the same emotional needs as everyone else. You make it sound like sex is the most important thing in your marriage, but I think, if you work it out with your husband, your marriage will be stronger, with or without sex.

Or maybe he doesn't know he's ace. Sorry, I didn't read every post. But my point still stands. Your husband could be feeling bad and hurt, too.

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LeaveOnYourColours

If either party feels that they can't compromise to the point that the other would be agreeable, continued discussion is not going to be useful.

Yeah I agree. Honestly I just read the first few posts and not every page before adding. My fault!

@lissi

My point was purely to add in what I thought could be the reason for his defensiveness and his feelings. Not right or wrong, just digging into his side which to me seemed a little less represented/explained..

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Serran

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

He still says he is not asexual. If he doesn't believe himself to be so, we cannot say he is. He may not have realized his full feelings on sex until later in. Without hearing his side, we can't really call him a liar or say he deceived anyone. Crying feels deceived, she has every right to her feelings and it may be the case. But, we cannot judge him without hearing his side of it. Perhaps he didn't even know the extent of his own feelings until all of this. Perhaps he doesn't even now (he seems pretty confused from the things said).

That doesn't mean Crying has to accept him, or stay with him, or forgive him if she feels betrayed. It doesn't mean Cryings feelings are wrong. It just means, we can't know what he meant to do.

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Notte stellata

You make it sound like sex is the most important thing in your marriage, but I think, if you work it out with your husband, your marriage will be stronger, with or without sex.

If she makes it sound like sex is the most important thing in her marriage, I think that's because sex is a major need of hers that is unfulfilled in her marriage.

I think what you said is true for some relationships, but not others. Not every problem in relationships can be worked out, and that's okay. If one or both partners realized there's a fundamental incompatibility that can't be resolved, they have every right to give up on the relationship. It doesn't mean either of them is to blame; they just don't make a good match.

Also, for some people no sex = no marriage/romance, and that's okay too.

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Sally

Your husband might not know what asexuality is, so he never told you. A lot of aces out there don't know there is such a thing.

I didn't know all the way through my marriage and 30+ years into my partnership. I just thought I was doing things wrong and it would eventually work out if I kept trying. It's pretty hard, I know, for some sexuals to understand that, but really, if you've never heard of the concept of asexuality, you certainly can't tell anyone about it.

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*Judy*

Your husband might not know what asexuality is, so he never told you. A lot of aces out there don't know there is such a thing.

I didn't know all the way through my marriage and 30+ years into my partnership. I just thought I was doing things wrong and it would eventually work out if I kept trying. It's pretty hard, I know, for some sexuals to understand that, but really, if you've never heard of the concept of asexuality, you certainly can't tell anyone about it.

This is so true. I am lucky that I am in my twenties and know what asexuality is. When everybody around you tells you things like: "When you are really in love with them you will want to have sex, just wait, it will be there." Then you do that: wait. and the worst part about this is in my opinion if you discover that you do love a person but there still isn't this need to have sex...the guilt I felt first is undescripable.

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Mycroft is Yourcroft

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

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Lady Girl

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

I personally don't think either are deceptive if your asexual partner is like my husband...hoping for years that someday, somehow, he would want to have sex as much as the person he loves.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Not mentioning that sex isn't one's cup of tea might be done out of thoughtfulness...or it may even be mentioned, but not heard in the way it is meant. The sexual partner may feel they are being told they aren't doing something right, or they may not realize to what extent the asexual means it.

Judy and Sally said it best...without the concept of asexuality, it's hard to understand.

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Mycroft is Yourcroft

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Just to clarify, I meant 'actively pretending' in a sense where he would say very sexual things, or deliberately make very sexually suggestive comments to Crying or other people. Things like that :)

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lissi

I would not be so devastated had he not pretended to be sexual until we married, and then abruptly stopped having sex with me.

I understand everything you are saying about confusion and trying and I now believe this was the case with my ex. It is what crying says above that I have a problem with. It makes it sound like he was being deceptive in just keeping up the pretence until marriage.

What Sally and Judy have said is pretty much how my ex explained to to me (just after he finished with me). I was shocked, hurt and very angry at the time and didn't take it well. I felt like was the subject in some highly unethical experiment. It's only by hearing the feelings of asexual partners here that I am starting to understand. I still have a problem with deliberate deception though.

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Serran

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

I personally don't think either are deceptive if your asexual partner is like my husband...hoping for years that someday, somehow, he would want to have sex as much as the person he loves.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Not mentioning that sex isn't one's cup of tea might be done out of thoughtfulness...or it may even be mentioned, but not heard in the way it is meant. The sexual partner may feel they are being told they aren't doing something right, or they may not realize to what extent the asexual means it.

Judy and Sally said it best...without the concept of asexuality, it's hard to understand.

*nods* I didn't end up being able to explain it to my partner until I found AVEN. I had tried. And tried. And tried. But, it wasn't coming out in a way he could even understand what I was trying to tell him. Before we even met up ( we met online) I told him oral sex hurt my mouth so I didn't like doing it and I tended to lose interest in sexual stuff during relationships. He took that as there was something wrong with my exes, or I just needed to "grow into it" or whatever. After a few months together, I told him that he was able to keep me interested in the sexual stuff longer than most people have, I wasn't as bored as I usually get (he did do a lot of cuddling/kissing at the start so I think that had a lot to do with it). He took that as another "oh nothing off here" thing. He always knew I didn't masturbate or look at porn, which he found weird, but just brushed it off as me being a prude or something. When sex became tedious, I tried to tell him I am just not into it like you are, it isn't something that I think about or want to really do. But, of course that didn't make sense either, I just needed to "hit my prime" or "stop repressing and tell him what I liked" - even though over the course of our entire relationship, every time he asked if I liked something I was kinda like "*shrug* I guess it's OK" because it wasn't painful, but it wasn't pleasurable either. And if he was like "does this feel better than this?" I would be like "Uhm, not really? It's all kind of the same?"

But, neither of us had any concept of asexuality (or non-libidoism). So, I just assumed eventually, something would click like he kept saying. Or maybe that my mom and grandmother were right and women really don't like sex and just do it because they are supposed to. So, I dressed up in nighties and lingerie and did the things you're expected to do. Not knowing what was going on. I didn't even google about not liking sex when I eventually stumbled onto AVEN, I googled "how to fix a very low libido" because I arrived at I must be physically and medically broken and need some sort of treatment if I can't live like everyone else and do this sex thing all the time and be fulfilled with it. It took TEN years and having sex THOUSANDS of times to find out what the real issue was and a way to explain it for me. Any time I asked a friend, it was "Oh, you'll get over it. Just keep doing it til you find what you like." My family was "No woman likes it, you just do it to have a relationship cause men want it".

So, I am not really willing to say people lie about it if they just go along with what society expects. I understand it can feel like deceit to partners and I think everyone has a right to those feelings. And I feel bad for anyone that ends up being in that situation, on both sides. It is a lot of hurt, a lot of confusion and a lot of hard decisions to make. Anyone who purposefully lies about it to a partner, is being cruel. To intentionally misrepresent yourself and deny your partner something vital to them is a horrible betrayal. I just don't think being confused counts as being deceptive. It can still hurt just as much though.

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Percivel

I did not find out my wife didn't like sex until we were married ten years. My wife's best friend mentioned it over dinner one night. I was blown away and mad as hell at my wife for not telling me sooner. I still did not understand what that meant...until another ten years. I thought her "problem" could have been due to a hundred different things. Even her doctor told her it was just fatigue. My wife said she thought I knew she didn't like sex. She also said that she thought it was "normal" and didn't think it would be an issue. We never talked much about sex/intimacy and I kept most of my thoughts and feelings to myself...as much as I could. I always felt like a selfish jerk when I brought it up. We never argued about it though.

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Crying

My expectation when we married was that sex would be the glue that made the relationship different from just being friends. I didn't marry to have a friend with whom I share cable TV, a mattress and laundry facilities. I expected a lover.

I'm sorry, did you just say that without sex, the only relationship you have is one of 'just friends'? So, take what you have now ('just friends'), add sex, BAM you're committed lovers? What about shared love, mutual trust, companionship and relying on each other in times of need? All those other things that you need in a loving relationship?

Maybe you don't have those things either, in which case I apologise, but I hate it when some people seem to think that all you need is sex to be considered 'lovers'. To me, people who are 'just friends' who have sex sound like 'friends with benefits', as opposed to lovers in a committed relationship.

Yes, I did say that. What I need in my relationship isn't for you to judge. Too bad if you " hate it when some people seem to think that all you need is sex to be considered 'lovers". It's none of your business to try to define for me what characteristics are important in a committed relationship in which you are not involved. What you "hate" doesn't apply to my life or to anyone's but your own. Saying "I apologise" before offering your judgement about what makes a relationship for somebody else doesn't make it any less snarky and superior.

"Shared love, mutual trust, companionship, relying on each other in times of need" are components of a strong friendship. I have those things with my best friend, a female I met when I was a single parent. We certainly are not lovers, nor do we wish to be. She's a friend. Queen made a great song about friendship called "My Best Friend". The lyrics describe exactly the traits you mentioned in your post.

If you want to be married to a friend, fine, but I don't and it's my life and my needs I'm discussing here.

I'd like to hear your difference between friends with benefits and someone you would marry?

I don't get involved in FWB type of relationship. It has never made sense to me. I don't ever want to have sex with someone if I am not feeling connected to them as a partner.

If a man's intentions toward me are to yuk it up and hang out and spend time together that includes sex, but without any desire to connect as a couple and have an exclusive, committed relationship, then he'd not have benefits, and I'd probably call him a lot of things, but I would not call him a friend. I'm not going to be anybody's no strings booty call.

I say "his" intentions because I am heterosexual and female, which means the other party in this equation would have to be a man.

I did not find out my wife didn't like sex until we were married ten years. My wife's best friend mentioned it over dinner one night. I was blown away and mad as hell at my wife for not telling me sooner. I still did not understand what that meant...until another ten years. I thought her "problem" could have been due to a hundred different things. Even her doctor told her it was just fatigue. My wife said she thought I knew she didn't like sex. She also said that she thought it was "normal" and didn't think it would be an issue. We never talked much about sex/intimacy and I kept most of my thoughts and feelings to myself...as much as I could. I always felt like a selfish jerk when I brought it up. We never argued about it though.

Wow, what a rough ride that must have been. The offhanded rejection hurts, even when the other person thinks it's normal and doesn't know why anyone would get upset about it. Having the kind of loving that you need to give and receive completely unavailable is devastating.

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Just to clarify, I meant 'actively pretending' in a sense where he would say very sexual things, or deliberately make very sexually suggestive comments to Crying or other people. Things like that :)

He went overboard with his 'being sexual', to the point where I had to tell him that his public displays of affection needed to be reined in because I felt they were unfair to those around us. He wanted sex three or four times week, and while it was never deeply emotional sex (now I know why) for him, he did seem to be interested.

We set the date to marry about six weeks before actually marrying, and that is when he began telling me that he was tired.

He dodged sex on our three-day-weekend honeymoon by pulling away from my kisses and saying that he 'needed' to go check Facebook to see how many Likes our wedding announcement had gotten, and doing things like wanting to go to the movies. Yes, the movies. He bought movie tickets for our wedding night. To Les Miserables, a 3 hour depressing movie. He preferred watching actors pretending to be beaten, starved and orphaned to the sound of operatic singing over claiming the woman he'd married four hours earlier. His new wife, me, was mortified and confused. Shouldn't my husband be all over me? It's our honeymoon! He later told me that he'd 'never heard' of a honeymoon being focused on sex.

He finally told me that he didn't really have an interest in sex about two months after we married, when I burst into frustrated tears asking why he suddenly had begun treating me like he wasn't attracted to me any more, stopped initiating, and always had a ready excuse to refuse if I should make any attempt to get his interest. He said to me "I give you plenty of hugs and kisses, isn't that enough?", and I would scurry away, mortified and heartbroken that my new husband didn't want sex with me.

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

I personally don't think either are deceptive if your asexual partner is like my husband...hoping for years that someday, somehow, he would want to have sex as much as the person he loves.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Not mentioning that sex isn't one's cup of tea might be done out of thoughtfulness...or it may even be mentioned, but not heard in the way it is meant. The sexual partner may feel they are being told they aren't doing something right, or they may not realize to what extent the asexual means it.

Judy and Sally said it best...without the concept of asexuality, it's hard to understand.

*nods* I didn't end up being able to explain it to my partner until I found AVEN. I had tried. And tried. And tried. But, it wasn't coming out in a way he could even understand what I was trying to tell him. Before we even met up ( we met online) I told him oral sex hurt my mouth so I didn't like doing it and I tended to lose interest in sexual stuff during relationships. He took that as there was something wrong with my exes, or I just needed to "grow into it" or whatever. After a few months together, I told him that he was able to keep me interested in the sexual stuff longer than most people have, I wasn't as bored as I usually get (he did do a lot of cuddling/kissing at the start so I think that had a lot to do with it). He took that as another "oh nothing off here" thing. He always knew I didn't masturbate or look at porn, which he found weird, but just brushed it off as me being a prude or something. When sex became tedious, I tried to tell him I am just not into it like you are, it isn't something that I think about or want to really do. But, of course that didn't make sense either, I just needed to "hit my prime" or "stop repressing and tell him what I liked" - even though over the course of our entire relationship, every time he asked if I liked something I was kinda like "*shrug* I guess it's OK" because it wasn't painful, but it wasn't pleasurable either. And if he was like "does this feel better than this?" I would be like "Uhm, not really? It's all kind of the same?"

But, neither of us had any concept of asexuality (or non-libidoism). So, I just assumed eventually, something would click like he kept saying. Or maybe that my mom and grandmother were right and women really don't like sex and just do it because they are supposed to. So, I dressed up in nighties and lingerie and did the things you're expected to do. Not knowing what was going on. I didn't even google about not liking sex when I eventually stumbled onto AVEN, I googled "how to fix a very low libido" because I arrived at I must be physically and medically broken and need some sort of treatment if I can't live like everyone else and do this sex thing all the time and be fulfilled with it. It took TEN years and having sex THOUSANDS of times to find out what the real issue was and a way to explain it for me. Any time I asked a friend, it was "Oh, you'll get over it. Just keep doing it til you find what you like." My family was "No woman likes it, you just do it to have a relationship cause men want it".

So, I am not really willing to say people lie about it if they just go along with what society expects. I understand it can feel like deceit to partners and I think everyone has a right to those feelings. And I feel bad for anyone that ends up being in that situation, on both sides. It is a lot of hurt, a lot of confusion and a lot of hard decisions to make. Anyone who purposefully lies about it to a partner, is being cruel. To intentionally misrepresent yourself and deny your partner something vital to them is a horrible betrayal. I just don't think being confused counts as being deceptive. It can still hurt just as much though.

I am so freakin jealous that you had sex thousands of times in ten years! I'm not being facetious, when I read those words I thought "oh, wow, at least she knows he wants her. Wow, thousands of times!"

Your husband might not know what asexuality is, so he never told you. A lot of aces out there don't know there is such a thing. Think of how he's feeling. He can't give you what you want, and he might be confused. You also make it sound like we asexuals are bad people. We can love and have the same emotional needs as everyone else. You make it sound like sex is the most important thing in your marriage, but I think, if you work it out with your husband, your marriage will be stronger, with or without sex.

Or maybe he doesn't know he's ace. Sorry, I didn't read every post. But my point still stands. Your husband could be feeling bad and hurt, too.

When did I ever say that "asexuals were bad people"?

If sex is the most important part of my marriage, then it is.

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Jockey

I think you are jumping to conclusions by deciding that he is asexual.

If he was willing to have sex in the past but is not now, I would guess that he is scared of something, not that he has stopped being attracted to you, nor that he never was attracted to you.

As to what that something that he's afraid of is, I don't know but some guesses include:

1. Pregnancy.

2. Impotence

3. Revealing some other physical problem he's been having.

4. Fear related to being married and what that means to him.

5. Fear of passing on an STD.

I strongly suggest you guys see a marriage counselor.

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Serran

""I am so freakin jealous that you had sex thousands of times in ten years! I'm not being facetious, when I read those words I thought "oh, wow, at least she knows he wants her. Wow, thousands of times!""

I am just putting quotation marks here cause I cannot get the quote system to work with huge quote blocks and editing them.

It was with multiple partners, over 10 years, before I figured myself out. Four to be exact. The second one, I actually kinda acted like your husband from the sounds of it (over the top PDAs, I even pinned the poor guy against a wall at a bar and I was only 17 at the time). The reason I reacted that way was I was INSISTING to myself I had to want sex, so I overdid it trying to force something unnatural to me. He was happy, I was miserable after 3 months of it and felt totally unfulfilled by our relationship because of all the sex. We ended up breaking up because in the end, he wanted to make our sex life kinky and I just wanted to stop the sex life.

My current one does want sex a lot though, but, that's where you and I differ (I actually like the sound of cuddles without sex). It doesn't make me feel good, but it would make you feel amazing. It causes stress and anxiety in me, while it would relieve it in you. And I don't blame you at all if you need someone that can relate to you on this matter in the way I cannot to my partner and your husband doesn't seem to be able to with you (for whatever reason). My partner and I work on it and have decided the relationship works enough to keep it going, but it is a struggle and not one everyone should go through.

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Crying

I think you are jumping to conclusions by deciding that he is asexual.

If he was willing to have sex in the past but is not now, I would guess that he is scared of something, not that he has stopped being attracted to you, nor that he never was attracted to you.

As to what that something that he's afraid of is, I don't know but some guesses include:

1. Pregnancy.

2. Impotence

3. Revealing some other physical problem he's been having.

4. Fear related to being married and what that means to him.

5. Fear of passing on an STD.

I strongly suggest you guys see a marriage counselor.

We did, at my insistence. I got kicked out so that the sessions could focus on him.

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Feral_Sophisticate

I think you are jumping to conclusions by deciding that he is asexual.

If he was willing to have sex in the past but is not now, I would guess that he is scared of something, not that he has stopped being attracted to you, nor that he never was attracted to you.

As to what that something that he's afraid of is, I don't know but some guesses include:

1. Pregnancy.

2. Impotence

3. Revealing some other physical problem he's been having.

4. Fear related to being married and what that means to him.

5. Fear of passing on an STD.

I strongly suggest you guys see a marriage counselor.

We did, at my insistence. I got kicked out so that the sessions could focus on him.

"Kicked out"? Why those very specific words?

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theotherfey

My expectation when we married was that sex would be the glue that made the relationship different from just being friends. I didn't marry to have a friend with whom I share cable TV, a mattress and laundry facilities. I expected a lover.

I'm sorry, did you just say that without sex, the only relationship you have is one of 'just friends'? So, take what you have now ('just friends'), add sex, BAM you're committed lovers? What about shared love, mutual trust, companionship and relying on each other in times of need? All those other things that you need in a loving relationship?

Maybe you don't have those things either, in which case I apologise, but I hate it when some people seem to think that all you need is sex to be considered 'lovers'. To me, people who are 'just friends' who have sex sound like 'friends with benefits', as opposed to lovers in a committed relationship.

Yes, I did say that. What I need in my relationship isn't for you to judge. Too bad if you " hate it when some people seem to think that all you need is sex to be considered 'lovers". It's none of your business to try to define for me what characteristics are important in a committed relationship in which you are not involved. What you "hate" doesn't apply to my life or to anyone's but your own. Saying "I apologise" before offering your judgement about what makes a relationship for somebody else doesn't make it any less snarky and superior.

"Shared love, mutual trust, companionship, relying on each other in times of need" are components of a strong friendship. I have those things with my best friend, a female I met when I was a single parent. We certainly are not lovers, nor do we wish to be. She's a friend. Queen made a great song about friendship called "My Best Friend". The lyrics describe exactly the traits you mentioned in your post.

If you want to be married to a friend, fine, but I don't and it's my life and my needs I'm discussing here.

I'd like to hear your difference between friends with benefits and someone you would marry?

I don't get involved in FWB type of relationship. It has never made sense to me. I don't ever want to have sex with someone if I am not feeling connected to them as a partner.

If a man's intentions toward me are to yuk it up and hang out and spend time together that includes sex, but without any desire to connect as a couple and have an exclusive, committed relationship, then he'd not have benefits, and I'd probably call him a lot of things, but I would not call him a friend. I'm not going to be anybody's no strings booty call.

I say "his" intentions because I am heterosexual and female, which means the other party in this equation would have to be a man.

I did not find out my wife didn't like sex until we were married ten years. My wife's best friend mentioned it over dinner one night. I was blown away and mad as hell at my wife for not telling me sooner. I still did not understand what that meant...until another ten years. I thought her "problem" could have been due to a hundred different things. Even her doctor told her it was just fatigue. My wife said she thought I knew she didn't like sex. She also said that she thought it was "normal" and didn't think it would be an issue. We never talked much about sex/intimacy and I kept most of my thoughts and feelings to myself...as much as I could. I always felt like a selfish jerk when I brought it up. We never argued about it though.

Wow, what a rough ride that must have been. The offhanded rejection hurts, even when the other person thinks it's normal and doesn't know why anyone would get upset about it. Having the kind of loving that you need to give and receive completely unavailable is devastating.

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Just to clarify, I meant 'actively pretending' in a sense where he would say very sexual things, or deliberately make very sexually suggestive comments to Crying or other people. Things like that :)

He went overboard with his 'being sexual', to the point where I had to tell him that his public displays of affection needed to be reined in because I felt they were unfair to those around us. He wanted sex three or four times week, and while it was never deeply emotional sex (now I know why) for him, he did seem to be interested.

We set the date to marry about six weeks before actually marrying, and that is when he began telling me that he was tired.

He dodged sex on our three-day-weekend honeymoon by pulling away from my kisses and saying that he 'needed' to go check Facebook to see how many Likes our wedding announcement had gotten, and doing things like wanting to go to the movies. Yes, the movies. He bought movie tickets for our wedding night. To Les Miserables, a 3 hour depressing movie. He preferred watching actors pretending to be beaten, starved and orphaned to the sound of operatic singing over claiming the woman he'd married four hours earlier. His new wife, me, was mortified and confused. Shouldn't my husband be all over me? It's our honeymoon! He later told me that he'd 'never heard' of a honeymoon being focused on sex.

He finally told me that he didn't really have an interest in sex about two months after we married, when I burst into frustrated tears asking why he suddenly had begun treating me like he wasn't attracted to me any more, stopped initiating, and always had a ready excuse to refuse if I should make any attempt to get his interest. He said to me "I give you plenty of hugs and kisses, isn't that enough?", and I would scurry away, mortified and heartbroken that my new husband didn't want sex with me.

So Crucis, what is your take on him pretending to be sexual until the point at which they were married?

Was he actively pretending to be sexual or rather not mentioning that sex wasn't his cup of tea? Both are deceptive, but one is far more so than the other.

I personally don't think either are deceptive if your asexual partner is like my husband...hoping for years that someday, somehow, he would want to have sex as much as the person he loves.

Carrying on with what is expected might seem like actively pretending, but isn't necessarily deceptive, I consider it trying or making an effort.

Not mentioning that sex isn't one's cup of tea might be done out of thoughtfulness...or it may even be mentioned, but not heard in the way it is meant. The sexual partner may feel they are being told they aren't doing something right, or they may not realize to what extent the asexual means it.

Judy and Sally said it best...without the concept of asexuality, it's hard to understand.

*nods* I didn't end up being able to explain it to my partner until I found AVEN. I had tried. And tried. And tried. But, it wasn't coming out in a way he could even understand what I was trying to tell him. Before we even met up ( we met online) I told him oral sex hurt my mouth so I didn't like doing it and I tended to lose interest in sexual stuff during relationships. He took that as there was something wrong with my exes, or I just needed to "grow into it" or whatever. After a few months together, I told him that he was able to keep me interested in the sexual stuff longer than most people have, I wasn't as bored as I usually get (he did do a lot of cuddling/kissing at the start so I think that had a lot to do with it). He took that as another "oh nothing off here" thing. He always knew I didn't masturbate or look at porn, which he found weird, but just brushed it off as me being a prude or something. When sex became tedious, I tried to tell him I am just not into it like you are, it isn't something that I think about or want to really do. But, of course that didn't make sense either, I just needed to "hit my prime" or "stop repressing and tell him what I liked" - even though over the course of our entire relationship, every time he asked if I liked something I was kinda like "*shrug* I guess it's OK" because it wasn't painful, but it wasn't pleasurable either. And if he was like "does this feel better than this?" I would be like "Uhm, not really? It's all kind of the same?"

But, neither of us had any concept of asexuality (or non-libidoism). So, I just assumed eventually, something would click like he kept saying. Or maybe that my mom and grandmother were right and women really don't like sex and just do it because they are supposed to. So, I dressed up in nighties and lingerie and did the things you're expected to do. Not knowing what was going on. I didn't even google about not liking sex when I eventually stumbled onto AVEN, I googled "how to fix a very low libido" because I arrived at I must be physically and medically broken and need some sort of treatment if I can't live like everyone else and do this sex thing all the time and be fulfilled with it. It took TEN years and having sex THOUSANDS of times to find out what the real issue was and a way to explain it for me. Any time I asked a friend, it was "Oh, you'll get over it. Just keep doing it til you find what you like." My family was "No woman likes it, you just do it to have a relationship cause men want it".

So, I am not really willing to say people lie about it if they just go along with what society expects. I understand it can feel like deceit to partners and I think everyone has a right to those feelings. And I feel bad for anyone that ends up being in that situation, on both sides. It is a lot of hurt, a lot of confusion and a lot of hard decisions to make. Anyone who purposefully lies about it to a partner, is being cruel. To intentionally misrepresent yourself and deny your partner something vital to them is a horrible betrayal. I just don't think being confused counts as being deceptive. It can still hurt just as much though.

I am so freakin jealous that you had sex thousands of times in ten years! I'm not being facetious, when I read those words I thought "oh, wow, at least she knows he wants her. Wow, thousands of times!"

Your husband might not know what asexuality is, so he never told you. A lot of aces out there don't know there is such a thing. Think of how he's feeling. He can't give you what you want, and he might be confused. You also make it sound like we asexuals are bad people. We can love and have the same emotional needs as everyone else. You make it sound like sex is the most important thing in your marriage, but I think, if you work it out with your husband, your marriage will be stronger, with or without sex.

Or maybe he doesn't know he's ace. Sorry, I didn't read every post. But my point still stands. Your husband coulIf itd be feeling bad and hurt, too.

When did I ever say that "asexuals were bad people"?

If sex is the most important part of my marriage, then it is.

If it is the most important thing in your marriage, then that is not a healthy relationship to begin with. I understand sex is an important part to most relationships, but it shouldn't be the most important thing. However, if it is to you, well, good luck to you then. But sex isn't the only way to show love and affection.

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WhenSummersGone

I, personally, think that if someone is just looking for sex or find sex very important then they can find those sites for just sexual partners. I don't think you need to even be close friends with them. A relationship or marriage shouldn't only be about sex, it's about having someone be there romantically too and finding a life partner. I agree that if sex is one of the most important things then it won't work well for intimacy, but if it's only about sex it won't work out well because there's nothing else there.

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Lady Girl

Life often teaches us that love isn't about sex, but not always. For some people, sex will always be the ultimate and only glue in a marriage. I believe for some people that is just how it is and it doesn't somehow make their love less, or indicate that their relationship is unhealthy.

I also believe that love is expressed in many ways other than sex. I personally think that if a marriage becomes sexless that doesn't have to mean the relationship is reduced to roommates. There are a multitude of things I do, say, and feel with my husband that I wouldn't with any roommate or best friend.

Love can be huge outside the realm of sex and it can also be extremely fulfilling because of a sexual relationship with someone.

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radiantheart

Nervous about posting for some reason. Just wanted to say, first of all, that I'm very sorry about all this, Crying. :\ It's heart breaking to read all of this, and you have my thoughts.

other than that, um. I'm one of those asexuals who was in a relationship for over a decade before finding out asexuality was a thing. I discovered AVEN and brought it up with my boyfriend. He'd already been hurting but what he took as a huge rejection was immensely painful to him in much the same way as you described. He tried to convince me, I tried to convince myself. But all those years of trying to "fix" myself and give him what he wanted so he wouldn't be miserable and kill himself.... was pretty much killing me. We are on such opposite sides of the sexual spectrum that it hurts.

I didn't even understand until I found AVEN that people actually felt so strongly. I was about thirty then. I figured all the sexual stuff was just people being perverted and joking. If I even noticed it at all. I was worn down to the point of almost hating interacting with my boyfriend, whom I loved so much I would have probably killed myself if we split up. Every time we spoke he'd be hinting or working on hours long plots to try to get my attention, flirt, makeme understand how desperate he was for anything at all. Meanwhile I was desperate to ignore, avoid, and distract away from everything that could lead to affection in any way at that point because I knew it would lead to emotional pain and literal hours and hours of arguing, crying, and him possibly wounding himself in emotional anguish. I love him with all of my heart, but I can't give him what he needs. I feel like a broken piece of garbage. I was in denial and tried everything to change. We talked for YEARS about sex and how we felt. We tried to find something, anything that I was attracted to. Went through lists of fetishes, kinks, and he even showed me porn for hours weekly to try and get me "over" my repulsion. All it did was slightly lower my tendency to gag when I see a picture of a penis. :| Horribly boring and upsetting to me. Horribly frustrating and heartbreaking to him. Constantly trying, and no hope ever at the end.

I hated myself so much. I still do a lot of the time. He still doesn't understand exactly, or accept it. But we can discuss it more. Eventually I convinced him to get another girlfriend. One he can be physical with. He loves us both now, but he's so very guilty and hates himself for it. It's painful for everyone in different ways. (She isn't sexual enough for him. Which is just awful as well. Poor guy. x.x) I feel awful and guilty because I'm actually the least in pain right now. I have the relief of not being under the looming shadow of sex at all times. I still get to talk to him all the time. I talk him through his problems with her, because my whole life I've been a mediator for others. I seriously never ever thought I'd be in this situation even two years ago. It would have destroyed us both. Extremely monogomous people who loved nobody else. Soulmates. Except for the one horrible difference.

So yes. I'm sorry for rambling about myself like this, really am, but I just wanted to express that I'm so very very sorry and hope you find happiness somehow. <3

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Percivel

I'm sorry it didn't end well for you Radientheart. It must be very hard for you to counsel your ex about his new girl. I'm surprised you can do that. Thanks for sharing your experience.

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Crying

I think you are jumping to conclusions by deciding that he is asexual.

If he was willing to have sex in the past but is not now, I would guess that he is scared of something, not that he has stopped being attracted to you, nor that he never was attracted to you.

As to what that something that he's afraid of is, I don't know but some guesses include:

1. Pregnancy.

2. Impotence

3. Revealing some other physical problem he's been having.

4. Fear related to being married and what that means to him.

5. Fear of passing on an STD.

I strongly suggest you guys see a marriage counselor.

We did, at my insistence. I got kicked out so that the sessions could focus on him.

"Kicked out"? Why those very specific words?

I was asked by the counselor if I would agree to not attending the sessions with my husband because he needed to address his issues. I was told I could check in for part of a session once a month to 'remain abreast of his progress'. I was upset by this suggestion that I was not welcome in my own marital counseling, and that the sessions had become his place to be heard and not my place at all.

said that I did not agree. I was told that if I didn't agree, I was welcome to make appointments for individual counseling, but that seeing us together "where all we did was bicker" was counterproductive..

So while I was being asked to 'agree', it seemed the decision had been made that I could attend the placating monthly half session to 'check in', or I could go it alone, or both, but what I wanted, which would be being seen together, wasn't being offered.

So, I am now an outsider from the marital counseling that I initiated to attempt to save my marriage, if it can be saved.

Sure felt like a kick.

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