Asexually Confuse

[KayleeSaeihr]

(A musing and/or rant)

I've read some rather definitive and conflicting opinions on what asexuality is.

People don't feel attraction. You don't want sex. You can feel attraction...some can have sex. We do we don't masturbate...etc.

It's enough to drive one to confusion...And I'm aware of asexuality. What about the people whom we talk to about asexuality who aren't aware of it...If they were to come across these conflicting ideas imagine what they'd think... "They must be making it up" or something.

Maybe we should have some sort of set "criteria" but be as open as possible.

[Guest disjointed]

I see what your thinking GalileoAce

I have friends who say they are vegatarians but some eat fish some eat white meat it never stops suprising me what the differences are in peoples mind. When I was a veggie for 9 years I simplified it... I never ate anything with a face

and the same with Asexuals so many see the recognised definition in layers and how they feel it applies to them

[je_suis_napoleon]

Well, if one reads something like the Kinsey report, it's easy to see that things like heterosexuality and homosexuality aren't always as black and white as we'd like them to be for simplicity's sake. Unfortunately for us and our desire to be understood and accepted, I think asexuality is the same.

[KayleeSaeihr]

I see what your thinking GalileoAce

I have friends who say they are vegatarians but some eat fish some eat white meat it never stops suprising me what the differences are in peoples mind. When I was a veggie for 9 years I simplified it... I never ate anything with a face

and the same with Asexuals so many see the recognised definition in layers and how they feel it applies to them

It goes beyond that.

Homosexual. Attracted to and/or enjoy sex with the same gender.

Bisexual. Best of both worlds.

Heterosexual. Attracted to and/or enjoy sex with the opposite gender.

Easy to understand and comprehend.

Asexual....Uh... No attraction, but some/many might have attraction. No romantic feelings, but some/many might have them. No sexual desire/need, but some might feel the need to pleasure themselves...

It gets a bit complicated doesn't it?

I suppose I could say my musing is thus: In as few words possible, define asexuality.

Well, if one reads something like the Kinsey report, it's easy to see that things like heterosexuality and homosexuality aren't always as black and white as we'd like them to be for simplicity's sake. Unfortunately for us and our desire to be understood and accepted, I think asexuality is the same.

I'm not 100% knowledgeable on the Kinsey report/scale and it's validity.

[baleyn07]

It goes beyond that.

Homosexual. Attracted to and/or enjoy sex with the same gender.

Bisexual. Best of both worlds.

Heterosexual. Attracted to and/or enjoy sex with the opposite gender.

Easy to understand and comprehend.

Asexual....Uh... No attraction, but some/many might have attraction. No romantic feelings, but some/many might have them. No sexual desire/need, but some might feel the need to pleasure themselves...

It gets a bit complicated doesn't it?

I suppose I could say my musing is thus: In as few words possible, define asexuality.

Lack of sex drive. Someone once said to me that they might go so far as to be sexually attracted to a person, but just didn't have the drive to do anything about it. It doesn't mean we're entirely unsexual, we're just...not very driven to do anything about it. :P

[KayleeSaeihr]

The way I see it, asexual is asexual.

The word "a-sexual", the prefix being the key. a- something is not against something but rather without something. So an asexual would be without sexuality...But is that accurate? Many here to "help themselves" and many find varying genders attractive to all sorts of degrees. So it really calls into question what it is to be asexual.

Is it a spectrum like the autistic spectrum... (not a linear line mind you), or is it something concrete to be defined in concrete terms?

I'm leaning toward spectrum. As much as it pains and confounds my prenaturally autistic, and therefore rigid black and white thinking brain, the world is not black and white. But rather a plethora of shades of grey.

I think asexuality should be represented as that...But how? Humans by their nature are also black and white (not to the degree of autism indeed) thinkers, we love to label, to identify to define our world. When someone seeks to understand something they seek out what it is to be that thing. What is it to be a mountain? What separates mountains from hills and tors?

It's this thinking I believe we should be mindful of when discussion asexuality with those who are ignorant of it (I don't mean that negatively).

[santanico]

I think what all asexuals have in common is: Complete lack of physical (not mental) need for/urge to having intercourse. That differs asexuals from hetero- and homosexuals.

[Skylark]

Yes, I wonder about this too. For me, I have trouble understanding the people who posted in the "actually don't mind sex" thread, because to me, it seems that if you like sex, you're not asexual. I was extremely relieved when I found AVEN, because there was no doubt in my mind after reading this that I had finally found other people who were like me and didn't like sex, didn't want sex. For me, that's the key, absolutely defining thing. I'm a very strongly romantic person, but I'd never consent to sex in a million years.

And yet, then I find out that there are still people on AVEN who identify as asexuals, who... like sex?! I just don't get it at all. No wonder people are confused, when they see topics like that!

[AVENCakes]

Yes, I wonder about this too. For me, I have trouble understanding the people who posted in the "actually don't mind sex" thread, because to me, it seems that if you like sex, you're not asexual. I was extremely relieved when I found AVEN, because there was no doubt in my mind after reading this that I had finally found other people who were like me and didn't like sex, didn't want sex. For me, that's the key, absolutely defining thing. I'm a very strongly romantic person, but I'd never consent to sex in a million years.

And yet, then I find out that there are still people on AVEN who identify as asexuals, who... like sex?! I just don't get it at all. No wonder people are confused, when they see topics like that!

That's how I am, pretty much. I can see consenting to sex for children. (probably not in my case, but still) But enjoying it and still saying you're asexual is like "er... wait"

I think what all asexuals have in common is: Complete lack of physical (not mental) need for/urge to having intercourse. That differs asexuals from hetero- and homosexuals.

PHYSICAL need?! Okay, that just doesn't make sense to me. Mental I can understand. But a physical need? No, sorry, you've lost me there. that doesn't make sense to me at all. And mental needs can express themselves physically, like when you worry yourself so much you get physically ill- are you sure that's not what you mean? Why would sex be a physical need?

Homosexual. Attracted to and/or enjoy sex with the same gender.

Bisexual. Best of both worlds.

Heterosexual. Attracted to and/or enjoy sex with the opposite gender.

Actually, it's a bit complicated when you get into gender and sex. Some people are attracted to gender (ie: A normally lesbian girl goes out with a guy who later turns out to be MtF- she was attracted to the gender, not the sex there) and some are attracted to sex (a straight girl breaking up with a guy who turns out to be MtF because she's not attracted to women, and was only attracted to her biological sex). Yeah, I've seen both of these happen. The first was erally sweet, the second's more common.

[Beardless]

I suppose that this is the point where I bring out my brand-new, just-out-of-the-oven analogy comparing having sex to drinking alcohol. (Please note: I partake of neither of these pursuits.)

Some people will drink anything. Some people will have sex with anyone. Most people are more picky.

Some people want to drink, but don't - this is abstaining, as you'd rather drink. Some people want to have sex, but don't - this is celibacy.

Some people can't see the point of drinking, or dislike it, or just don't consider drinking. This is teetotalism - not drinking because you don't want to drink. Some people can't see the point of sex, or dislike it, or just don't consider having sex. This is asexuality.

Some people never feel safe enough to drink. Some people never feel safe enough to have sex. This is something else again, the "not having found the right..." situation.

---

I think the problem we have is that anyone who doesn't wish to have sex is classed as asexual, whether the concept of sex never crossed their mind, whether they are repulsed by it, or whether they can't see the point of it. This is three different catergories, and people who fall into at least one are asexual. But that means that people with completly different attitudes to sex are all asexual.

I say problem, because if we try to define asexuality, we have to recognise that people are asexual for different innate reasons, and no reason is more correct or important than any other. And by posting these catergories, we will still find people who don't fall into them, and are still asexuals.

[santanico]

PHYSICAL need?! Okay, that just doesn't make sense to me. Mental I can understand. But a physical need? No, sorry, you've lost me there. that doesn't make sense to me at all. And mental needs can express themselves physically, like when you worry yourself so much you get physically ill- are you sure that's not what you mean? Why would sex be a physical need?

Maybe we have here a misunderstanding because I am not a native english speaker, but I don't think so. As for mental, you are sort of right. What I actually meant was: If you mentally do not want sex, you're a celibate but maybe not asexual.

As for physical: Wanting sex is different from having fun with dancing, sports, music whatever. Wanting sex is a physical urge, like being hungry. Sometimes you just eat, because it's tasty. But if you really hungry, you have a physical urge to eat.

[AVENCakes]

I say problem, because if we try to define asexuality, we have to recognise that people are asexual for different innate reasons, and no reason is more correct or important than any other. And by posting these catergories, we will still find people who don't fall into them, and are still asexuals.

Why can't you be repulsed and not want to have it? It's the same category as asexual, just less likely to compromise with a sexual partner if you're repulsed.

Maybe we have here a misunderstanding because I am not a native english speaker, but I don't think so. As for mental, you are sort of right. What I actually meant was: If you mentally do not want sex, you're a celibate but maybe not asexual.

I thought celibacy was you want sex but choose not to have it.

As for physical: Wanting sex is different from having fun with dancing, sports, music whatever. Wanting sex is a physical urge, like being hungry. Sometimes you just eat, because it's tasty. But if you really hungry, you have a physical urge to eat.

I don't get that. For one thing: you've never had the urge to dance or run around or listen to a certain song? Like a really, really strong desire to just get up and move to the music? Ever? Huh. I get that a lot. I'd figure sex was more like that. I am, as I said, now confused. Sexuals make no sense to me.

[Shrine Maiden]

Strict criteria are no good in my opinion. That sort of thing reminds me of some sort of exclusive club crap.

Asexuality is generally defined by the absence of sexual desire and I think it's useless to impose more restrictions. Personalities are complex and they change in complex patterns to boot! What I am today is not what I was yesterday and will definitely not be what I will be tomorrow. Given this fluidity in everybody, why force a community to choose a set of rules to claim ownership of a label? When they feel comfortable the way they are, naming themselves asexual even if they do like the idea of sexual relations? I know it sounds contradictory, but honestly, human beings are very often full of contradictions and illogical decisions.

I find it good that there is variety on AVEN, different ways of thinking and different opinions. I might be aromantic but I am interested in the opinions of romantics. If we had some sort of "face control" then the community wouldn't be as varied as it is today, which would make it a poorer place.

[Aimeendfire]

I think the easiest way to explain asexuality is just what it says on AVEN..lack of sexual attraction to other people \. To me it seems thats what most asexuals have in common..excluding demis. some asexuals might have sex and enjoy it too but the sexual attraction isn't there to begin with. After all asexuality doesn't mean repulsed by all sexual acts..its just not having the desire to partake in them willingly

really liked your analogy cupati

[Beardless]

I'm not saying that repulsed is not the same as asexuallity. I'm saying that there are a lot of things that are the same thing as asexuality. And if we're trying to make a tight definition, it has to include people who are in different parts of asexuality. That is why it is such a hard thing to do, and it may not be a sensible thing to do.

[AVENCakes]

I think the easiest way to explain asexuality is just what it says on AVEN..lack of sexual attraction to other people \. To me it seems thats what most asexuals have in common..excluding demis. some asexuals might have sex and enjoy it too but the sexual attraction isn't there to begin with. After all asexuality doesn't mean repulsed by all sexual acts..its just not having the desire to partake in them willingly

really liked your analogy cupati

I think of demis more as the link between sexuals and asexuals- because they can understand/have been both. For part of their life they had no sexual attraction and were asexual, then they fall in love or whatever it is that causes them to have sexual attraction and are essentially sexual. Supposedly they'd be good for explaining it to both- since they've been to btoh. but I might be misunderstanding.

[Aimeendfire]

in theory I guess demis would be able to explain t better..but they might just be as confused as everyone else in this

[santanico]

Some people can't see the point of drinking, or dislike it, or just don't consider drinking. This is teetotalism - not drinking because you don't want to drink. Some people can't see the point of sex, or dislike it, or just don't consider having sex. This is asexuality.

This thread is questioning my concept of asexuality. Given someone has a sex drive. If this person dislike sex or can't see the point in it, he is celibate then, but not asexual, isn't he? At least my point of view.

[Aimeendfire]

depends..does this person still feel the sexual desire to have sex..

[LL Cool R]

Maybe we have here a misunderstanding because I am not a native english speaker, but I don't think so. As for mental, you are sort of right. What I actually meant was: If you mentally do not want sex, you're a celibate but maybe not asexual.

As for physical: Wanting sex is different from having fun with dancing, sports, music whatever. Wanting sex is a physical urge, like being hungry. Sometimes you just eat, because it's tasty. But if you really hungry, you have a physical urge to eat.

I'm not a native English speaker, too, but I thought the difference described by you was the distinction between sexual attraction and sexual arousal / drive?!

[AVENCakes]

I'm not a native English speaker, too, but I thought the difference described by you was the distinction between sexual attraction and sexual arousal / drive?!

Yes! That's exactly it. You can be aroused or have a libido and still not want sex. You can orgasm from rape- it's not about desire, it's just your body responding as it's designed to. When they do that knee reflex thing- you don't *want* to kick your leg up, you just do.

Some people can't see the point of drinking, or dislike it, or just don't consider drinking. This is teetotalism - not drinking because you don't want to drink. Some people can't see the point of sex, or dislike it, or just don't consider having sex. This is asexuality.

This thread is questioning my concept of asexuality. Given someone has a sex drive. If this person dislike sex or can't see the point in it, he is celibate then, but not asexual, isn't he? At least my point of view.

Okay, I have a sex drive. I do not have a drive to have sex- it's a really horrible term. I generally get rid of it by jacking off, after which I go "why the @#% did I just waste my time doing that?!". There's no sense of satisfaction, there's pretty much no desire to do it, only desire to get that stupid nagging to shut up already.

[LL Cool R]

Okay, I have a sex drive. I do not have a drive to have sex- it's a really horrible term. I generally get rid of it by jacking off, after which I go "why the @#% did I just waste my time doing that?!". There's no sense of satisfaction, there's pretty much no desire to do it, only desire to get that stupid nagging to shut up already.

I'm about the same, the only difference is that my sex drive is mostly so low that I can simply ignore it. And even when it gets higher (which is unfortunately rare), it's in not really connected to people that I have feelings for ... that's how a heteroromantic asexual works :-)

[santanico]

I'm not a native English speaker, too, but I thought the difference described by you was the distinction between sexual attraction and sexual arousal / drive?!

No … actually no. When I speak of physical and mental desire to have sex, I mean the sex drive and the rational, conscious decision to have or not to have sex.

Okay, I have a sex drive. I do not have a drive to have sex- it's a really horrible term. I generally get rid of it by jacking off, after which I go "why the @#% did I just waste my time doing that?!". There's no sense of satisfaction, there's pretty much no desire to do it, only desire to get that stupid nagging to shut up already.

Trouble here is, not only do we have no strict definition of asexuality, apparently we neither have a strict definition for sex drive.

I agree, that you can have sexual arousel/attraction but not the urge to have sex.

Back to my original posting: Even if a asexual has a sex drive - all asexuals have in common that they have no desire for sexual intercourse. Problem is, this definition includes celibates… so that is why I said, an asexual has no physical interest in intercourse - a celibate has mental (rational, conscious) interest to abstain from or to avoid sex.

[je_suis_napoleon]

Yeah, "sex drive" can be ambiguous. "Libido" is a clearer term for the physical sensations of arousal and orgasm, and for lack of a better term, "copulation drive" would more accurately describe the need to experience arousal and orgasm with a partner.

Me, I don't really NEED orgasms; they're just fun.

[LL Cool R]

Back to my original posting: Even if a asexual has a sex drive - all asexuals have in common that they have no desire for sexual intercourse. Problem is, this definition includes celibates… so that is why I said, an asexual has no physical interest in intercourse - a celibate has mental (rational, conscious) interest to abstain from or to avoid sex.

So you're rather defining "mental interest" vs. "physical interest", but I'm not sure if that's a good differentiation. A celibate has reasons why he or she refrains from sex (for example for religious reasons or because of fear of STDs) while the asexual doen't have them. Well, the asexual might have them, but they come after the decision ("I don't want sex, therefore I'm safe from STDs!" vs. "I am afraid of STDs, therefore I refrain from sex!"). How is that physical?

Yeah, I know it's complicated, so nothing is meant as an offence to you even if it might sound that way (I hope it doesn't) :)

[Aimeendfire]

I think santanico meant that a celibate person feels the physical need for sex but mentally refuses to engage in it..as opposed to an asexual who has no physical need for sex. at least thats how i interpret what they said .

[LL Cool R]

Okay, and if we just add the notice that one can be sexually aroused and still not have this physical need for sex I'm happy :)

[Aimeendfire]

^--- very possible ..just as long as you're not experienced this sexual arousal due to other people..unless its directly stimulated

arrgh! too many gray areas X_X

[santanico]

A celibate has reasons why he or she refrains from sex (for example for religious reasons or because of fear of STDs) while the asexual doen't have them. Well, the asexual might have them, but they come after the decision ("I don't want sex, therefore I'm safe from STDs!" vs. "I am afraid of STDs, therefore I refrain from sex!"). How is that physical?

Yeah, I know it's complicated, so nothing is meant as an offence to you even if it might sound that way (I hope it doesn't) :)

No offence taken - I love discussions :) You are describing here a very special case: Someone is asexual and celibate at the same time. Can't imagine there are many such people out there.

I think santanico meant that a celibate person feels the physical need for sex but mentally refuses to engage in it..as opposed to an asexual who has no physical need for sex. at least thats how i interpret what they said .

That's exactly my point.

[Aimeendfire]

You are describing here a very special case: Someone is asexual and celibate at the same time. Can't imagine there are many such people out there.

I view that as a contradiction

That's exactly my point.

awesome :)