A romantic lost in doubts

[Sagi]

Hi im Sagi a sexual romantic male 25yo from brazil,for the last 3 years i been in love if "Aquaria" a friend that's is asexual and aromantic,we end up becoming really close to each other,we do things alike,think alike,well we are a good "team"...

Lately i got the courage to start touching subjects like dating and marriage,and everytime i'm proud of her and she asks why im happy i say "because that's the woman i'm gonna marry someday" and she says...ye...right

I got the feeling that shes not pissed of that,but she just don't belive it.

Sometimes she says that she may be up to have a family and kids but she's not sure.

We are nerds/gamers so the asexual side don't realy bother me,but the aromantic side of hers is what makesme crazy.

Its comon for a aromantic to have a "romantic" life (date/marrige),i know that kissing and touching is a little uncomfortable for her but she said that shes getting use to it now,we can hug and hold hands.

Is there some hope for me?

Anyone have some experience on that?

sorry for my bad english >_<

[rits]

It sounds as if you're in love with an idea of your friend that doesn't correspond with reality. Telling her that she will someday marry you is tantamount to telling her that someday she will come to her senses and see the world as you do, because yours is obviously the more correct way. Realize what it is you are asking of your friend.

Here's a picture of a puppy, because I don't know how to say these things nicely.

(._. )

[The Great WTF]

Personally, I utterly and complete despise people who say things like "I'm going to marry you some day" when I have no idea what my future holds. I actually dumped a guy over it. It's awkward and demeaning to have someone else behaving as though they've decided my life for me. Even if I WERE considering it, I'd be really offended to have someone say that. It's like someone who knows I have no intention of having kids telling me "You're going to be a great mother some day."

And who, pray tell, says it's "common" for aromantics to have relationships? I know plenty of aromantics who are perfectly content to be single their entire lives (myself included), many of whom succeeded in doing so.

I suggest you have a serious discussion with her and ask her what she wants of your relationship with her, not what you want, because from what I've read I'd be getting very irked if I was in her shoes.

[Sagi]

I don't try to make she see the world as i do,plz don't get me wrong,i been thinking for a long time now,so i'm pretty sure she's "the one",i never come up if this idea and crealy speak it,i always censurate myself,but she notice and asks whats up,and i tell her thats shes gone get pissed,and everytime she says "i want you to say it".

[Sagi]

Not that's an excuse or anything,o god i my sondslike all wrong again,and really that's not my point of view dat happiness can't be the best for a arromantic to be single their entire lives.

i actualy can't picture myself with anyone besides her,and impreaty sure she's fine on her own.

i been talking to some aromantic friends (Aven chat) and seens thats its not a issue to (date/marriage),its not the main option but it sometimes work,most of matter of trust and logical compatibility?

Not sure if i got ii right this time.>_< sry

[The Great WTF]

Believe me, there's a lot more to life and happiness than having a relationship for most aromantics. Most of us certainly don't need one to be happy. It all depends on the person and what they want from life.

As I said, ask her what SHE wants. Just because you think she's "The One" (dear Apollo I hate that phrase with a passion) doesn't mean she's going to agree. What evidence do you have that she's interested in a long term romantic relationship with you? Also, you say you're "okay" with the asexual side of her, but are you? Generally, at some point or another a sexual person is going to want to have sex with their partner and she might not be okay with that.

To be brutally honest, you're sounding a lot like a guy I unwillingly dated a few years ago. He had no ill intent towards me, but he wanted to date me so badly that he began to slowly push me into it. One minute we were gaming buddies, the next we were seeing a movie together and he was trying to make out with me and, like the idiot I was, I gave into the pressure from him and my friends and went along with it. I told myself "Maybe I'll just grow into it" or "Maybe I'm just nervous." I wasn't. In the end he started pushing too much and finally I snapped, told him that I'm not ready, and eventually had to cut off all contact with him because he was so vehemently convinced that I was "The One".

Edit: I'm sorry if I come off harsh, but you're striking a very raw nerve with me.

[maven]

Not that's an excuse or anything,o god i my sondslike all wrong again,and really that's not my point of view dat happiness can't be the best for a arromantic to be single their entire lives.

i actualy can't picture myself with anyone besides her,and impreaty sure she's fine on her own.

i been talking to some aromantic friends (Aven chat) and seens thats its not a issue to (date/marriage),its not the main option but it sometimes work,most of matter of trust and logical compatibility?

Not sure if i got ii right this time.>_< sry

Sometimes it can work. It depends on the person. Personally, I would not want to date or get married. But there are aromantics who do want those things, even thought they can't feel romantic attraction. Have you asked her how she feels about it? You've mentioned that she says "...ye...right" when you mention you're going to marry her - she may not want to get married. To you or anyone else. Also, hugging and holding hands may be the farthest that she will physically go - she may never be comfortable with kissing or cuddling. Each person is different, you need to figure out how she feels.

As far as "trust and logical compatibility" go, I can see how an aromantic who wants to get married or have children would appreciate that sort of arrangement. It doesn't work for everyone though - most romantic people want someone to romantically love them back in a relationship.

[Sagi]

Everytime i get in this subject,and to be honest i don't do it really often cuz i know that's a delicate subject for her,she says thats she's not ready for that now,that we have to focus on our objectives now,(im finish in engineering university,and she may be called to work in another town at any time for the next 2 years,since she works for the government)which i agree since we are young,im 25 and shes 24,i can't ask her if she will be ready today,next weak or in 2 years from now and i realy don't fell like cuz its her time not mine,but to be honest,im been single for the last 3 years (since i knw her) and i don't realy whant any other person in my "romantic" life,so im willing to w8 for her as long as it takes or till she gets strait to me and say it will never gona happen.

But since i got strait open if her that imin love if her,we got closer,so im all lost here.

As for the asexual part :redface: se says she's no repulsive,shes actualy indifferent,i don't have sexual atraction to many womans to be honest,only done it if one girlfriend and i been without for like 4 years now,so its all up to talk and to get a middle ground.

Ps: The Great WTF idin't intended to sry >_<im still learning

[Sagi]

As far as "trust and logical compatibility" go, I can see how an aromantic who wants to get married or have children would appreciate that sort of arrangement. It doesn't work for everyone though - most romantic people want someone to romantically love them back in a relationship.

txs i will keep that in mind

[Astryda]

This is something you should ask her, not us. There're aromantic people on this forum, but a/romantic orientation doesn't determine one's attitude towards relationship and intimacy and such a decision is up to her.

Anyway, there're aromantics who would like to be in a relationship and even if they are aromantic, they still can have emotional bond with other people.

[Data]

Everytime i get in this subject,and to be honest i don't do it really often cuz i know that's a delicate subject for her,she says thats she's not ready for that now,that we have to focus on our objectives now,(im finish in engineering university,and she may be called to work in another town at any time for the next 2 years,since she works for the government)which i agree since we are young,im 25 and shes 24,i can't ask her if she will be ready today,next weak or in 2 years from now and i realy don't fell like cuz its her time not mine,but to be honest,im been single for the last 3 years (since i knw her) and i don't realy whant any other person in my "romantic" life,so im willing to w8 for her as long as it takes or till she gets strait to me and say it will never gona happen.

Maybe you should ask her if she thinks that it could ever happen, or if she just say so to not talk about it. You could tell her that you will drop the topic when she will tell you, and that you will no longer bring it up, but that you just want to know. If she just wants to get out of the conversation about it, then bringing it up now, and then doesn't do any good for either of you.

As for marriage maybe that is putting to much pressure. I doubt that many aromantics would be interested in that (unless done to get parents off they backs etc.), if anything maybe living together playing games together, and sharing chores, but it is unlikely for aromantic to want anything romantic (well duh).

[Guest]

It's weird, it's like I'm seeing two completely different relationships coexisting side-by-side between you two... which maybe isn't so odd given that she's aromantic and you're romantic. There's her relationship with you, and then there's your relationship with her. Those two relationships have ZERO overlap, and that's quite unfortunate.

Her relationship with you:

She seems to genuinely enjoy your company and she also seems to genuinely care about your feelings. She tells you that she wants you to be open about your feelings, and she's obviously sticking around when she doesn't have to. You guys are grown ups... she could just refuse to take your calls to see you if she wanted (right? You don't like live together, do you??). So... from her side, it looks like you have a great close friendship.

Your relationship with her:

You are in love with her and you assume that because the general progression for 99% of people is to get married and have kids that that's what both you and she will have. You see a typical relationship paradigm... you are in love with her, you are dating her, and you are both in your mid-twenties. It's not weird that you're considering marriage.

The two relationships together:

It's not weird that you're thinking of marriage, but it's very weird that that your considerations seem to have nothing to do with her. You continuously bully her into conceiving of a future that she has no interest in. You are looking at what is, from her side, a close friendship, and placing all kinds of expectations that don't fit with a close friendship... they fit with a stereotypical relationship. But dear, you don't HAVE a stereotypical relationship. And even if you did, what you're doing amounts to bullying anyway. I see what you're doing. You're wearing her down until she no longer has another option in her mind... you think that if you talk about the future you want long enough, it'll be the only future she considers too. But you're forgetting two very important things.

1. she quite possibly has an escape plan already formulated. It sounds like she's open to the possibility of being relocated for work... if you ask me, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened, and I don't think it would be a coincidence if it did. It's probably the easiest way to get away from you. If I were her, that's what I would do. I'm quite fond of moving around anyway, so if I can combine moving with avoiding someone, you better believe I'd do it. It sounds to me like that's where she's headed as well.

2. Relationships are supposed to be a mutual journey, nitwit!! You gotta get it thru your head that relationships are supposed to be two people going thru life together, supporting and loving each other along the way. Are you giving that to her? NO. You've finished the journey and are sitting at the finish line pouting. How is that a relationship, exactly? I'm sure you're a very nice guy and you have the best of intentions (I don't doubt that you love her very much) but you deserve to be broken up with for this reason alone. You need to meet your partner where they are and walk with them. You can't just sit in the winner's circle pouting, moping, and occasionally shouting for her to hurry up. That's not a partnership and it's not healthy for either of you. It's not healthy for her because she doesn't get to meander about her life figuring it out for herself, and it's not healthy for you because you're fixated on an end goal that you already think is real but that may never happen.

You need to talk to her seriously about everything, and you also need to start paying attention to what she does at least as much as what she says. girls aren't good at telling people exactly what they want and need... we weren't raised for that. Sometimes you have to pay attention to the little things to get a feel for what's happening. If I were you, I'd stop the "I'm going to marry you one day" stuff ASAP.

[Sagi]

It's weird, it's like I'm seeing two completely different relationships coexisting side-by-side between you two... which maybe isn't so odd given that she's aromantic and you're romantic. There's her relationship with you, and then there's your relationship with her. Those two relationships have ZERO overlap, and that's quite unfortunate.

Her relationship with you:

She seems to genuinely enjoy your company and she also seems to genuinely care about your feelings. She tells you that she wants you to be open about your feelings, and she's obviously sticking around when she doesn't have to. You guys are grown ups... she could just refuse to take your calls to see you if she wanted (right? You don't like live together, do you??). So... from her side, it looks like you have a great close friendship.

Your relationship with her:

You are in love with her and you assume that because the general progression for 99% of people is to get married and have kids that that's what both you and she will have. You see a typical relationship paradigm... you are in love with her, you are dating her, and you are both in your mid-twenties. It's not weird that you're considering marriage.

The two relationships together:

It's not weird that you're thinking of marriage, but it's very weird that that your considerations seem to have nothing to do with her. You continuously bully her into conceiving of a future that she has no interest in. You are looking at what is, from her side, a close friendship, and placing all kinds of expectations that don't fit with a close friendship... they fit with a stereotypical relationship. But dear, you don't HAVE a stereotypical relationship. And even if you did, what you're doing amounts to bullying anyway. I see what you're doing. You're wearing her down until she no longer has another option in her mind... you think that if you talk about the future you want long enough, it'll be the only future she considers too. But you're forgetting two very important things.

1. she quite possibly has an escape plan already formulated. It sounds like she's open to the possibility of being relocated for work... if you ask me, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened, and I don't think it would be a coincidence if it did. It's probably the easiest way to get away from you. If I were her, that's what I would do. I'm quite fond of moving around anyway, so if I can combine moving with avoiding someone, you better believe I'd do it. It sounds to me like that's where she's headed as well.

2. Relationships are supposed to be a mutual journey, nitwit!! You gotta get it thru your head that relationships are supposed to be two people going thru life together, supporting and loving each other along the way. Are you giving that to her? NO. You've finished the journey and are sitting at the finish line pouting. How is that a relationship, exactly? I'm sure you're a very nice guy and you have the best of intentions (I don't doubt that you love her very much) but you deserve to be broken up with for this reason alone. You need to meet your partner where they are and walk with them. You can't just sit in the winner's circle pouting, moping, and occasionally shouting for her to hurry up. That's not a partnership and it's not healthy for either of you. It's not healthy for her because she doesn't get to meander about her life figuring it out for herself, and it's not healthy for you because you're fixated on an end goal that you already think is real but that may never happen.

You need to talk to her seriously about everything, and you also need to start paying attention to what she does at least as much as what she says. girls aren't good at telling people exactly what they want and need... we weren't raised for that. Sometimes you have to pay attention to the little things to get a feel for what's happening. If I were you, I'd stop the "I'm going to marry you one day" stuff ASAP.

thank you very much,realy,I have no words to express my gratitude.

I'm gonna try to slow things down from my side and see life from her perspective,we don't live together,and if i want to give this relationship any chance i'm gonna have to change,and pay more attention and respect to her.

From now on i'm gonna enjoy more what we have and think less of the future.

Thank You for give me an overall perspective,i learn a lot today,and istill have aloot to learn.

[Guest]

I know it's hard... we've been programmed to think that relationships are conducted in a specific way, and for the most part we're right. There's a learning curve for both parties in a mixed relationship. I think it's a good sign that she's open to you expressing your feelings. Ideally she'll start feeling comfortable expressing hers too.

EDIT: thanks for not taking my post harshly, btw. It was written light-hearted and jokey but it doesn't read that way, so thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt that I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I appreciate it!

[Sagi]

I know it's hard... we've been programmed to think that relationships are conducted in a specific way, and for the most part we're right. There's a learning curve for both parties in a mixed relationship. I think it's a good sign that she's open to you expressing your feelings. Ideally she'll start feeling comfortable expressing hers too.

EDIT: thanks for not taking my post harshly, btw. It was written light-hearted and jokey but it doesn't read that way, so thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt that I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I appreciate it!

Not at all,in fact i really appreciate it,since i've been reading AVEN and seen so many differents points of view,i changed my view of love for a more abrasive and colorful ways,as for friends,family and her.

Much of what we are impose to see as love and sex by modern society and midia,that most of us sexuals romantics unfortunately see in black and white.

Since we got closer and this journey has started i can say that i grew up a lot as a human and as a man.

Regardless of the way this relationship goes,"Aquaria" is a friend for life,and we are happy being close the way we are(not sure if she feels that way but seems so),i sure love her on my way and can only hope for the best,in the most comfortable and respectful way for her.

For now all i can do is give time and keep learning.

So thank you very much :lol:

[Mr. Shuttershy]

Oh, hey, a fellow 'I'm in love with my aromantic best friend'.

Uhm.

So, I think Skullery Maid really summed it up. I know its hard to swallow, but it's really not ok to think their thoughts for them. Even if you believed she'll change her mind, yiu have to allow her the freedom and space to do it. It's really not helping her to tell her what she'll do; humans are sort of built to not do something just because someone told them to do it.

It's ultimately down to what you value. Do you really value her? It seems to me that if you did you'd be satisfied with your close friendship; always longing for more, because of your feelings, but taking what she can give you and appreciate it. Though, I personally don't bond to people that often, so I have no plans for marriage, so for me I don't feel I'm holding myself back from another relationship. However, I get the sense that marriage is very important to you. If it is, I suggest you look for love in someone that can reciprocate.

Finally, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. My heart breaks every time my friend calls me just a friend. Its a terrible situation to be in.

/Skulls, your post makes me think I really just need to give up.

[Guest]

We need more aromantics in this thread to give some guidance. I have no idea what capacity/ interest aromantics have for relationships. I think because I'm so low in romanticism myself that I'm not entirely understanding the difficulty in dating an aromantic. The lack of sex I get is an issue... other than that, is it more just a security issue? Do you guys just not feel that your aromantic partners actually love you or want to stick by you? If I was feeling insecure all the time I can see how that'd wear me down very quickly. Is that an aromantic thing, though, or just a personality thing, to not be interested in commitment? I've seen Nogistune write quite extensively that although being aromantic, she'd really like a long term committed best friendship like the ones ya'll are describing. Maybe I'll send her a quick PM and see if she can weigh in here.

[Mr. Shuttershy]

Well.

I dont kmow if I can fit all my thoughts here; as mentioned before, reaching into my mind for replies, especially about hurtful subjects, is draining.

She's asexual too, so sex isn't an issue for me. /Thinking of her sexually is a squicky thought. Not that she's unattractive, but I just couldn't. Ick.

Reme,ber in that 'whay is romance' thread that we debated the difference between platonic and romantic? You had summed up beautifully that platonic is where you care, but from a distance in a way, but romance is caring and living life together? My friend does not express concern that we may never be together in real but a few visits a year. She can't see why it kills me that we won't live together, or even close. For her, I'm just kept at arm's length. Now, is that personality? Maybe. She's distant and as stated before has a limited range of emotions. She's expressed before that she wouldn't be able to handle the intensity that is romantic feelings.

Only when I push, which is suuuuuuper rare, will she admit that her and I confuse her; that we're really sort of gray-area.

I am completely insecure of her love, partly bevause I'm insecure, but partly bevause of her emotional distance.

I'm not out to offend or label all aros, but in my friends case I see her /capable/ of romance, just afraid/indifferent. Intense emotion isn't her thing. Her attatchment style seems anxious-distant (forgot the actual term). She never shows her clingyness, or the inteånsity of her love unless our relationship is threatened. She likes to hang back, not letting on or admitting a need for, that reflects my need for her of course, until she has to make a move otherwise.

She's admitted I'm the most emotionally close to her; but I couldn't begin to evrn guess her thoughts. I can only say all this from observation and our close work with each other on our relationship.

At the very least, she openly calls us a team.

[Sagi]

Oh, hey, a fellow 'I'm in love with my aromantic best friend'.

Uhm.

So, I think Skullery Maid really summed it up. I know its hard to swallow, but it's really not ok to think their thoughts for them. Even if you believed she'll change her mind, yiu have to allow her the freedom and space to do it. It's really not helping her to tell her what she'll do; humans are sort of built to not do something just because someone told them to do it.

It's ultimately down to what you value. Do you really value her? It seems to me that if you did you'd be satisfied with your close friendship; always longing for more, because of your feelings, but taking what she can give you and appreciate it. Though, I personally don't bond to people that often, so I have no plans for marriage, so for me I don't feel I'm holding myself back from another relationship. However, I get the sense that marriage is very important to you. If it is, I suggest you look for love in someone that can reciprocate.

Finally, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. My heart breaks every time my friend calls me just a friend. Its a terrible situation to be in.

/Skulls, your post makes me think I really just need to give up.

Yep you are absolutely right,i do value her and now i appreciate much more the time we spend talking,seeing and doing things,i see that as the way she loves me,by spending time if me,and hope that i can correspond for the trust she give me.

[Nogitsune]

I've seen Nogistune write quite extensively that although being aromantic, she'd really like a long term committed best friendship like the ones ya'll are describing. Maybe I'll send her a quick PM and see if she can weigh in here.

*has successfully been summoned!*

Uh, all right, I hope I can contribute something useful to the conversation. Aside from what's already been said about not putting pressure on the person you are in love with and respecting their feelings (and this is really important, regardless of whether they are aromantic or not), I don't see why a relationship like the one the OP is aiming for would be doomed from the start. Being aromantic only means a person doesn't experience romantic attraction - everything else is purely an individual thing. As an aromantic, if someone I care about a lot wanted a "romantic" relationship with me, I probably would consider it, providing there was no pressure on me to return any romantic feelings, because I just can't do that. I'd also probably not be okay with sex or kissing, but that's about it. I do feel uncomfortable thinking about myself in a romantic relationship, but I believe that's mainly because of society's expectations of such a relationship. Same with marriage - I'd like to "marry" a close friend or several close friends, but I'd rather I could have that without it being called "marriage", and only partly because that would probably be a lot better for my partners' potential love and/or sex lives. If I ever wanted to raise a kid, I wouldn't mind doing it together with people I care about, either.

So yeah, I'd say when it comes to romantic/aromantic relationships, it's mainly a matter of whether the romantic partner would be okay with receiving "only" platonic love in return, and of how comfortabel the aromantic partner is with being seen as a "romantic" partner despite being aromantic, if that makes sense. The rest would basically be like in any other relationship. Talking to each other and figuring out what the other person's boundaries and expectations are and whether you're compatible is really the most important thing, in my opinion.

But keep in mind my experiences are not in any way universal. Just because I can totally see myself living with a "special someone", or many special someones, and wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it if those people were romantically attracted to me, doesn't mean this goes for every aromantic, or even most aromantics. I have no idea what the "average" aromantic person is like, if such an average even exists - just like some or many romantic people would never consider living with a platonic friend all their live, cuddling with them and basically being partners, while others could see themselves doing that under the right circumstances, aromantics are a diverse group.

[Mr. Shuttershy]

Thank you for your input!

Not to be rude, but I wouldn't be alright in a 'fake' romantic relationship. I'm not saying the feelings are fake, but the romance part would be one-sided. I wouldn't be ok with that.

So, I guess to answer my own, yeah, I should give up.

[Nogitsune]

Thank you for your input!

Not to be rude, but I wouldn't be alright in a 'fake' romantic relationship. I'm not saying the feelings are fake, but the romance part would be one-sided. I wouldn't be ok with that.

So, I guess to answer my own, yeah, I should give up.

I don' think that's rude at all. It's perfectly all right to expect certain things from a relationship, and I wouldn't want a "romantic" relationship with someone where I'd feel that they are missing out, either. (Heck, when I picture myself in a life-long relationships, it's always with someone not romantically attracted to me.)

Whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you in the end!

[Mr. Shuttershy]

Thanks. It was a 4 year friendship.

[Sagi]

Somehow that's not a real issue for me,love is much more of one side thing for me,not sure if that anything wrong if me but i don't care that much for public demonstration of love,in her case in specifically her strong side feels that everytime i give her a gift or whant to pay for something she dislike and feels like we have to share or give me something back,in other hand she wants to do the same i do and don't want anything in exchange...like i do <_<

But that spart of her nature,and she does thats if some some other friends too,so i got use to it.

I don't realy care to share bills nowdays,i just like to spend time if her.