Forum for Demisexuals and Grey-Aces

[Tegid]

Demi Grace

Hallo, everybody! Upon careful searching, I concluded that a) there are no demi- and grey-specific forums online and b) there is demand for one, if Tumblr is to be trusted... so I made one. It's open to total-aces, as well as anybody in the LGBTQA communities, but it exists specifically to satisfy some of the community cravings held by grey-aces and demisexuals.

I hope nobody minds me posting this here in promotion of the website; thank you all for your welcome in the chatbox. Good evening!

-Tegid

[Member33070]

I definitely appreciate this effort! However, I feel the urgent need to point out that I just spearheaded a massive poll right here on AVEN to get our own demi and gray subforum within AVEN. The poll just ended on Saturday.

See the poll here, along with massive amounts of information:

http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/64854-gray-a-demisexual-semisexual-etc-subforum-the-poll/

The poll indicates that about 75% of AVEN wants a subforum, however the mods are still deciding.

I haven't seen the discussions on Tumblr, but if you could also point out that this might be happening here on AVEN within your circles I would greatly appreciate it!

[Faelights]

I definitely appreciate this effort! However, I feel the urgent need to point out that I just spearheaded a massive poll right here on AVEN to get our own demi and gray subforum within AVEN. The poll just ended on Saturday.

See the poll here, along with massive amounts of information:

http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/64854-gray-a-demisexual-semisexual-etc-subforum-the-poll/

The poll indicates that about 75% of AVEN wants a subforum, however the mods are still deciding.

I haven't seen the discussions on Tumblr, but if you could also point out that this might be happening here on AVEN within your circles I would greatly appreciate it!

Coincidentally enough, Tegid was in the chat room, and I linked Tegid to both of the relevant threads and asked her to comment on them.

[Guest member25959]

Good job Tegid! The appearance of this forum pleases me. It's not cheap-looking, it's not lacking in forums, and overall looks to be appealing.

This is definitely a good way to approach this issue. Don't fall into the same trap that most of the spin-off forums do, promote this thing, like big time, Tumblr and AVEN would probably be good places to promote this thing at the moment.

Again, well done!

[Guest]

As an ace (neither demi nor gray) I would still prefer seeing a subforum open here on AVEN rather than a new forum altogether. Ace awareness is already rather low - not that it's AVEN's fault - let alone what would happen if we started splitting in a thousand forums.

Definitely not productive. We'd better gather in one place (at most two) and be as united as we can, than create all these little islands.

[Tegid]

Definitely not productive. We'd better gather in one place (at most two) and be as united as we can, than create all these little islands.

I'll agree, if you will, to disagree. If anything, broader dissemination would be an ideal: if all google hits for "asexual", "demisexual", and "grey-asexual" turn up AVEN and only AVEN, it gives the impression that our community is exceptionally small, isolated, and not very representative of any significant portion of the world population. It's fine to have a single pioneering base of operations, like AVEN, but as awareness expands, odds are good that AVEN itself will grow in membership, and large membership sometimes results in the contingent "squashing" of the individual, as just one of a "me, too" herd. I've seen that happen an awful lot in LGBTQ websites, pagan religion sites, even otherkin sites. The more members there are (once you get past about 600; especially members of the "majority group" within that site, aces on AVEN), the less sense of community bonding exists for any single member, and the less sense of inclusion for subgroups within the site. The weight of mass opinion also gradually squashes new members' desire to add ideas and original thought that could potentially serve and help the wider community.

Diverse, smaller 'local' or 'focus' groups, all affiliated with but not subject to a larger 'general/pioneer' group, will do more to spread awareness and develop useful ideas than a single centralized group operating under a specific set of unchanging rules.

Hawaii is many islands, but I wouldn't say it's not united as a territory. Even though each island has its own unique qualities and subcultures, its own flaws and places of beauty, there is still an overall sense of group establishment with all the other islands.

Additionally, it could be argued that demis (and possibly greys) are misrepresented by the oft-quoted AVEN definitions. Demis experience a persistent problem of people assuming they are simply following socially mandated norms, or being 'virtuous', rather than it being a natural orientation or compulsion. There's more to it than the conclusion to which those people jump, but the end result is the same: demisexuals get treated as slut-shamers, "special snowflakes", and whiners who have no right to claim any idea that is not purely normative.

Arca, thank you for the positive review, and for posting in our forum. :)

Birdwing, I will certainly make a point to inform those communities that AVEN is immanently to expand its forums to include demi-and-grey-specific sub-boards. That said, many of the members of those communities appear to be AVEN members, so I doubt they would fail to notice on their own. :)

I wish to stress that my goal is NOT to fracture the community; my goal is to diversify it, to specialize parts of it to meet the unique needs of its minority sub-groups, to provide an intentionally smaller community for ace spectrum people who are intimidated by large forum communities, and to expand awareness by conveying to things such as search engines that there IS more than one be-all, end-all site for people of asexual spectrum orientations.

Google only displays so many hits from a single site before it moves onto the next-busiest site. Would it not be helpful to ensure as much as possible that all the hits on pages 1-n for "asexual" etc. turn up ace-positive sites, and not sites that bash and harass this community?

One other factor that might be worth addressing: the internet itself is unpredictable; I have seen entire swathes of forums go down when the host or the physical server had problems.

Having a second functional ace spectrum site would be a good way for members to regroup and communicate in the event of technical problems at AVEN. I'd like for us to be able to regard these boards as sister-sites, not as competitors, in the sense that we can help each other, share information that is useful to the community at large, instead of worrying over the illusion that we would be detracting from each other's members, media, resources, visibility, or credibility.

Thank you all for your attention and time. :) I hope you have a lovely week.

[Member33070]

Thanks for the input Tegid.

I only have expressed what has been said to me when I first started with the subforum poll. People said that creating a subforum of AVEN would split the community and cause problems. I think because they believed that the demis and grays would go into their own little world and not interact with other people in the forum...which I don't see happening. I'm sure you saw those posts in the poll itself as well as the discussion thread. Obviously you know where I stand on the matter.

I appreciate the efforts and I know that AVEN is not the only asexuality forum. I feel it's critical to have a subforum here and knew it was just a matter of time before another group popped up elsewhere.

I plan to do as much as I can on the AVEN subforum project if it goes into effect. Yes, if...we're still waiting to hear if it even will happen. I haven't heard anything from mods yet since the poll closed.

I definitely would like the two forums to work together as much as possible if the subforum goes through.

[Tegid]

I do understand your feelings regarding the overall situation, and I'm sympathetic to them; that said, one of my primary reasons for starting the forum off-site from AVEN was simply this:

Many asexuals find discussion of sex and physical intimacy to be repulsing, triggering, and/or generally discomfiting in a big way.

Demis and greys are those in the spectrum who, to some extent or another, are aware of having at least some possibility of feeling sexual desire and attraction, perhaps under very specific circumstances... but this DOES place a gulf of mutual discomfort between demis/greys and "total aces". While a demi or grey may feel the need to discuss or mull over a situation that involves sexuality, in order to understand it or get community feedback and advice over it... an ace, reading the same thread, might potentially have an extremely aversive reaction to it. This means that, to some extent, any territory that is "totally ace-safe" is going to be a little bit inhibiting to any demi or grey that needs to discuss, express, or ask about distinctly sexual parts of life. Having a space where I can unleash demis and greys, and say, "just say what you need to say; you won't upset anybody unless you're trying to upset somebody" is... well, I see it as very important to this part of the ace spectrum community.

It's sorta' like having a terribly arachnophobic best friend, but needing to discuss with somebody a problem you've had with spider infestation at your house. You might want to confide in your pal, but do you want to severely disrupt that person's peace of mind for your own sake, when they mean only good things for you?

Okay, maybe that's not an ideal example, but hopefully it decently conveys my point and my feeling on the matter.

While simply the header "Demisexual Subforum" could be a sufficient blanket trigger warning in AVEN, it's not as comprehensive as a separation that allows a totally demi/grey-safe space, in which any discussion is acceptable, relevant, and not likely to cause upset in friends we respect. By no means is this an advise against a Demi/Grey subforum on AVEN; I still think that's a fantastically good idea.

I just think it's also constructive to have a space specific to those subgroups, just in case they don't feel comfortable discussing sexual stuff with definitively asexual people, who will range from unable to comprehend or sympathize with it all the way up to psychologically bothered by it.

[Guest member25959]

The poll indicates that about 75% of AVEN wants a subforum, however the mods are still deciding.

Well yes, but the poll didn't really ask whether or not members wanted an independent Gray-A forum outside of AVEN to be completely fair. :P

Definitely not productive. We'd better gather in one place (at most two) and be as united as we can, than create all these little islands.

It has been said, many times now, that AVEN is straying away from it's original purpose, not that I disagree with the Gray-A sub/forum on AVEN, it's a good idea in my opinion. But I can see the point that these people are making, as ...

Ace awareness is already rather low - not that it's AVEN's fault - let alone what would happen if we started splitting in a thousand forums.

That's the point, though, AVEN = Asexual Visibility and Education forum. We're still working on Asexuality visibility itself, never mind all the identities it entails.

But we are lucky enough to have a Project Team, dedicated more-or-less to aiding visibility, so 'straying away from our original path' by creating new subfora is not as big of a deal as some make it out to be.

If this forum is promoted and advertised in the right kind of manner, I can see it actually taking off, maybe in 10 years time becoming an important base for the Gray-A's.

Just keep in mind, how AVEN started of, what it started of as.

I would also like to add, that if this sub/forum ever does take off on AVEN, it would be the best idea to have this thread pinned in there.

[Member33070]

^ The subforum here isn't intended to be just for grays, so that's why the question wasn't worded that way. It would be for grays, demis, semisexuals who don't identify as asexual, etc. Basically the entire gray area between asexual and sexual. Exactly the same demographic this offsite forum seems to be aiming for.

I agree with the bits about the sexual questions and the repulsion thing. It was very difficult for me personally coming out as a gray here after having been an "established" asexual for 5 or 6 years. There is a lot of repulsion and a lot of comments that are made that people don't realize can make grays, demis, etc feel a bit alienated.

Another poll I made (it's linked on the subforum poll, called "Grays, I've got some questions for you..." showed that many grays feel uncomfortable identifying as such, but also that many feel that they fit in better with asexuals. Not the largest group - the largest group was the ones who felt neither asexual nor sexual - makes sense.

I definitely support both efforts and you'll probably find me in that forum pretty soon. :) it's almost 2 am here but I can't get off aven, ahhhhh!

[Faelights]

Just to reiterate, the matter of whether or not AVEN will be expanding to include a Grey-A forum is still under discussion. When a decision has been reached, an official announcement will be made, but until then, we ask for your patience.

Thank you,

Faelights, Just For Fun mod.

[Wineblood]

Well done Tegid! The appearance of this forum pleases me. It's not cheap-looking, it's not lacking in forums, and overall looks to be appealing.

Really? I find it bland and quite unappealing. It's basically the same colours and very general in its subforums.

[Tegid]

Really? I find it bland and quite unappealing. It's basically the same colours and very general in its subforums.

Consider it an effort in cohesiveness with other ace communities, such as AVEN.

As for having very general subforums, the site is still under construction, and the feedback section exists specifically so that members can make democratic input about additions and changes they would like to see. Until there are enough members to give constructive input, it is rather hasty to leap to the assumption that the forum will permanently appear as it does at this time.

If you personally have a suggestion for how its appearance and subforums may be improved, then by all means, I invite you to give constructive notes, either here or in my forum, or by PM or e-mail. :)

Thanks. ^_^

[Wineblood]

Really? I find it bland and quite unappealing. It's basically the same colours and very general in its subforums.

Consider it an effort in cohesiveness with other ace communities, such as AVEN.

As for having very general subforums, the site is still under construction, and the feedback section exists specifically so that members can make democratic input about additions and changes they would like to see. Until there are enough members to give constructive input, it is rather hasty to leap to the assumption that the forum will permanently appear as it does at this time.

If you personally have a suggestion for how its appearance and subforums may be improved, then by all means, I invite you to give constructive notes, either here or in my forum, or by PM or e-mail. :)

Thanks. ^_^

Very well. I will give it a proper look this time, I was a bit busy earlier on. After that I'll post in the designed space for comments over there.

[Tegid]

Fantastic; thanks. :)