Question for trans and non-binary people: Do you find "genderbending" offensive?

[Lydian]

Ok, so I'm sure most everyone has seen genderbends of nearly every character imaginable as it's something a lot of people will do for fun and whatnot. Recently though I've seen a lot of stuff on tumblr calling this out on being offensive as it enforces the binary and assumes that everyone's gender identity and gender expression match etc. etc. and also doesn't portray non-binary.

So my initial thoughts on this are that well....as much as I can agree that not everyone's gender identity and gender expression are going to match, there wouldn't be a whole lot of fun in drawing them looking the exact same. There's also of course the idea what "gender" bending usually changes the "sex" as well, though I'm pretty sure the name just came about because gender rhymes with bender and whatnot. I suppose I could see the name being offensive more than the actual thing itself.

Ultimately I don't see it as anything all that harmful, though changing the name of it couldn't hurt. Then I got thinking however, it's easy for me to sit here and think "psh whatever it's no offensive" because I'm cis. I'm not affected. Maybe I'm wrong? So I figured it'd be better to ask people who ARE affected by this kind of thing and ask your opinions.

Do you find "genderbending" of characters offensive?

Do you think it's the name that's offensive or the act of swapping the characters sex/gender in itself?

If you're non-binary do you find it erases non-binary people by always bending between male/female?

Just looking for thoughts in general.

[ObsessedWithCats]

I'm not offended by it, though the name is annoying. I've generally assumed they mean that both the sex and the gender are switched, even if they wouldn't know to use those words or ideas. I think in a lot of cases if the artist were made aware of non-binary genders and sexes they'd think of it as a great excuse to make another one.

There's a couple of anime/manga series I'm aware of that have either trans-binary or intersex characters, and I would hope people attempting to 'genderbend' those sets of characters would at the least be consistent in whether they change the sex, gender or both. For all-cis casts though, there's no way to know what level of respect and thought went into the art, so I usually go with Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity (or a lack of information in this case).

[Vyanni Krace]

Its not the genderbending that annoys me, so much as the way they often completely change the characters personality and/or characteristics to match the new gender. This is mostly seen in fanfics, but I've seen it in fanart too.

For example making the male!Rapunzel really buff/fit and with shorter hair (still long, but not long enough to pull a person up a tower), as well as cockier/more confident/smarter/more cunning/more willing to defy Mother Gothel/etc...To me, genderbending a character literally means you just turn them into a male/female version of themselves. So they're exactly the same, just in a different body and with a different gender identity.

I've also seen people turn male characters into these hyper-feminine, hyper-weak women, which is not only insulting to the character, but insulting to women as well. A good example would be many of the female!Merlin fanfics I've seen (female!Bilbo is handled pretty well, but is handled better in fanart than fanfics, most of which still make me cringe). Merlin is a fairly goofy character who takes shit from nobody, not even nobles, and he can usually protect himself perfectly fine. Most of the female!merlin fanfics portray her as a person much more ready to blush and fawn over/crush on/fall in love with the prince, not to mention more shy and a type of 'feminine' that is the embodiment of misogynistic ideals (basically the idea that women are the weaker, 'fairer' sex). They also portray her as generally being a complete damsel in distress. I just don't get why people cant keep the characters the same, just because their gender has been swapped. To me, that's actually very sexist.

And don't even get me started on fics where a character goes through some weird transformation and turns from a man into a woman (or vice versa). Considering that those characters are technically still men (or women) mentally, but have just been given a different body, that would make them trans. However too many times I see people writing them as being rather curious and accepting of their gender-swapped bodies (magically forgetting that this was against their wills it seems). Yes, there is usually a bit of a freak-out to begin with, but after a while that character begins to act more and more like the opposite gender, just because their bodies now belong to the opposite gender. There is no dysphoria shown, no real distress and suddenly being a woman (or man), nothing. Its crazily frustrating because these writers have a great opportunity to show their readers how a trans person feels, but instead they make it so that the character's mental gender seems to change after they 'get used' to their new bodies. Its ridiculous and insulting.

So yeah, gender-swapping/gender-bending in itself is fine. Its just the way people portray it that's the problem. Things like changing the characters personality with their gender, simply because their gender is different, or having a character unwillingly changing from male to female (or female to male) and not having the characters be anyway bothered by it/have them slowly become that gender simply because their body is.

As it is, I generally avoid gender-swap/gender-bent fanfics purely because I find these issues so repulsive. I love the concept, and I would love to read some fics of this variety, if they weren't so sexist, or misinformed about trans people. I actually enjoy gender-swapping characters, I think its a great way of exploring the characters as well as great fun. So yeah, the thing itself doesn't offend me, but rather the large majority of the content produced.

Am I making much sense?

[ObsessedWithCats]

There are fics of this?! (I suppose I should never be surprised there are fics of anything though.) I was just thinking about the fanart or side-art. Genderbending fics I'd say could get murky pretty fast.

[Vyanni Krace]

There are fics of this?! (I suppose I should never be surprised there are fics of anything though.) I was just thinking about the fanart or side-art. Genderbending fics I'd say could get murky pretty fast.

The gender-bending fanart is usually actually pretty okay. I've seen a lot of genderbent fanart that I absolutely love (which is what got me interested in the concept to begin with). Sometimes genderbending kinda defeats the point of the original story (for example if the story is specifically about female empowerment/a woman or girl discovering her competency (for example Mulan)) and that's when it can get a bit rocky, because by changing the gender the person is eliminating the point of the story but that's usually the only time its an issue in fanart.

The fanfics are where it tends to get more on the insulting/offensive side and its where you can find the best examples of offensive content usually.

I've seen a few that are okay or really good, but its a pitifully small handful, even if you count in more than one fandom. (I once read an amazing one where Arthur (from Merlin, modern au) is actual transgender ftm and that was pretty cool. There was another pretty good one where he wasn't cisgendered but he wasn't sure what he was, just that he enjoyed dressing as a woman and felt most comfortable in womens clothing. Both were amazingly well written and well thought out. Unfortunately, these brilliant fics are typically in the minority and that's really got to change I think.)

[Calligraphette_Coe]

I don't think it's so much that I find it offensive, but that it nearly all of it seems like pulp fiction to me. Very little of it is anything approaching poignant, something that just MIGHT make life easier for those of us who burn in this hell by showing that we, too, have our lives stories.

Too, in the male-to-female genre, it's pretty sad to contemplate that the two overarching tropes seen ad nauseum are that being made female is a punishment or it's an opportunity to embrace nymphomania.

Thoughtbyte: Most of it has no soul or emotional salvation.

[Lydian]

I can't really say I read fanfiction at all much less about genderbending so really all I ever see is fan art. Usually fanart looks to be just for fun and like "oh here's what they might look like". Some obviously to adhere more to stereotypes based on gender, but I think a lot of it comes down to artistic preferences and whether they're trying to keep the character themselves the same or just wanting to alter the appearance. In all honesty, I think tumblr might be going a little overboard with this one. There are some problematic things with it but....I don't think they should be calling people cisexist if they reblog pictures of gender bends because they look nice and whatnot. It seems to me like one of those examples where they're /trying/ to find things to be angry about. They point out something problematic but then blow it out of proportion sort of deal.

The fanfiction I can understand a bit more, though fanfiction can be pretty terrible ANYWAY. If we ever do get asexual characters in media for example, I guarantee people would write smut about them anyway and most of it would probably be offensive. Fanfictions are just....yeah some of them can be pretty crappy.

[ivycreeping]

I consider myself agender because I don't really understand gender as a concept separate from physical sex (that's not to say it doesn't exist or isn't valid, just that I have no grasp of it), so I mostly see genderbending in more of an aesthetic sense. I am interested in "femininity", "masculinity", "androgyny", "neutrality", etc as composite terms referring to fashion or one's presentation (it seems to describe the ensemble as a whole, as a result of the sum of its various parts, rather than being the core or "essence" of it, if that makes sense...)

Its not the genderbending that annoys me, so much as the way they often completely change the characters personality and/or characteristics to match the new gender. This is mostly seen in fanfics, but I've seen it in fanart too.

I think the canon genderbends for Adventure Time are really good about keeping the characters' personalities the same :) But when I imagine genderbends I think I have a tendency to project my gender identity (or lack thereof) onto the character, which is why I don't imagine them changing at all except for their physical bodies.

[~Rikki~]

I'm not a huge fan of cisgender people saying transgender people are taking things way too seriously or that we're going overboard. Just pointing that out. If you don't know what it's like to be transgender because you're cisgender, then saying we're going overboard, not your place.

Otherwise I don't have much to say on genderbending because I don't know enough about it.

[Lydian]

I'm not a huge fan of cisgender people saying transgender people are taking things way too seriously or that we're going overboard. Just pointing that out. If you don't know what it's like to be transgender because you're cisgender, then saying we're going overboard, not your place.

Otherwise I don't have much to say on genderbending because I don't know enough about it.

As I said, that's why I decided to ask other people's opinions who weren't cis. Genderbending is generally the term used when people draw fanart or write fanfiction about characters as the opposite gender, though they usually mean sex and gender. Genderbending is just the most commonly used term for it.

[JAKQ7111]

No. In fact, I find gender-bending characters affirming, personally. "Bending" between male and female (or rather, masculine and feminine) is how I like to present my non-binary identity, which isn't so much off the binary altogether as it is walking a swervy line between the two sides of the binary, incorporating traits of both. As long as gender/the binary as a whole is being played with in some way, I will find it empowering for myself as a genderqueer individual.

[~Rikki~]

I'm not a huge fan of cisgender people saying transgender people are taking things way too seriously or that we're going overboard. Just pointing that out. If you don't know what it's like to be transgender because you're cisgender, then saying we're going overboard, not your place.

Otherwise I don't have much to say on genderbending because I don't know enough about it.

As I said, that's why I decided to ask other people's opinions who weren't cis. Genderbending is generally the term used when people draw fanart or write fanfiction about characters as the opposite gender, though they usually mean sex and gender. Genderbending is just the most commonly used term for it.

My comment was more in response to a more recent comment you made, not the original topic post.

[Lydian]

I'm not a huge fan of cisgender people saying transgender people are taking things way too seriously or that we're going overboard. Just pointing that out. If you don't know what it's like to be transgender because you're cisgender, then saying we're going overboard, not your place.

Otherwise I don't have much to say on genderbending because I don't know enough about it.

As I said, that's why I decided to ask other people's opinions who weren't cis. Genderbending is generally the term used when people draw fanart or write fanfiction about characters as the opposite gender, though they usually mean sex and gender. Genderbending is just the most commonly used term for it.

My comment was more in response to a more recent comment you made, not the original topic post.

Tumblr can be a good community sometimes, but I really do think that things on tumblr can get out of hand. I'm not just talking about transgender related stuff but tumblr as a whole has people who will go out of their way to find something problematic in everything. An example of seeing people throw things way out of proportion and then seeing everyone just jump on board was somebody making a huge deal over one small part of a movie and how since the character wasn't animated as opening her mouth super wide to belt out a line (which as a singer I can garuntee would have warped the vowel of the word as it was an 'oh' sound and she was not belting at that line) and saying this was sexist of the animators and it wasn't 'cute' enough for them to do it properly. A huge long rant and people just blindly reblogged and agreed with it, even though clearly none of them knew shit about singing or they'd know it made absolutely no sense. So yeah, tumblr blows things out of proportion sometimes. All it takes is one person to say "hey this is kind of problematic" and people who never had any problem with it before just jump on the bandwagon. I've seen a lot of good points from tumblr about a lot of things but I don't think they're always quite on the ball about things either.

[mikbuster]

The idea itself isn't offensive, but the way it's done sometimes is bad. A lot of genderbent characters are drawn super sexy, when the normal character isn't, and that bothers me. And there should be a bit of a personality change involved, though going extremely to the opposite end, again, sucks. But with personality, it depends on how serious you want to take it. If you go back to how would their life have been different if they grew up this way instead of that, it could change some very important aspects to their life altering the personality a lot. I may overthink things though. I mean, I've essentially done this kind of thing to myself in my head constantly for my whole life, so I have some pretty good ideas where things would be different if I had been able to acknowledge my gender from the beginning.

[Winderly]

I can't say I speak for all non-binary people, as I'm not even really out as non-binary outside of aven, so I'm not really facing many difficulties for it in terms of acceptance or harassment or whatnot.

That said, I personally don't find it offensive. I mean, it's people joking around. I agree that some of the stereotypes attached to gender can be problematic, but the basic idea isn't that bad. For that matter, I agree that the personalities should change a little if we're saying that they grew up as whatever sex/gender combo they are now, because they would have been raised differently. That's even more true if it's historical. Of course, if it isn't that serious, then the lack of an explanation as to why they act somewhat differently means that it would probably be a safer bet to stick with their original personalities. Oh, or you could genderbend everyone in that universe and the stereotypes that go along with gender, so the personalities remain the same because even the historical gender roles are switched (I have to admit I am a fan of those). I do agree that the name has some issues, though.

That got a bit off topic, but anyway: Sometimes I even find the arguments against genderbending to have issues. For example, the most recent post I've seen complaining about genderbending was also saying how even with gender identities changed, they should still present the same, because hey you can identify as male but still dress in a traditionally feminine way! And, I get that, and I get that they're saying that you're only changing the gender, not the sex, but...it seems like a lot of those activists are acting like changing your presentation to match your gender identity is somehow wrong, and I dislike that. Some anti-genderbending points are definitely good, but other ones are a bit shaky.

Oh, and as for them not including non-binary people, I don't know if I have an issue with that. I have seen some fanfics do non-binary genderbends pretty well, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who have attempted it and gotten it really, really wrong. Still, I'm sure there's some decent fanart out there for non-binary genderbends. It's not as common of an identity, though, so I'm not too bothered by people overlooking it. Maybe I should expect more, but a good chunk of people don't even think non-binary people exist at all, and I'm more worried about that.

[Mostly Peaceful Ryan]

It makes me think of water bending or fire being :lol: I never heard of this before but I don't see any reason to get offended by it. Sounds like just art and not a comment on other's Gender or whatever. I am hard to offend though.

[deru gray]

no, i dont find offensive this term.

maybe because is a perfect term to describe my gender expression.

i think im genderbending because sometime im androgynous and others atm crossdresser (tomboy) or atf crossdresser (femboy).

and i also love genderbender genre

[nanoCat]

It doesn't offend me at all, and in some cases I actually like it. It can be cute. Tumblr has some of the most unreasonably-opinionated and spiteful positions I've seen on the Internet. You can be almost certain that anything you do is going to offend someone, somewhere on Tumblr.

There is no requirement for me to be "properly represented" - people are entitled to create whatever it is they like, whether it's binary or not, straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise. My existence does not require people to take me into account with everything (or anything) they do, unless it's a matter of decisions that directly affect my rights. While I may not fit the binary, myself, it would be silly for me to not recognize that many people do fit into the binary just fine, and that they'll create things relative to their own perspectives, not to my perspective. They're making what they enjoy, not statements to advertise that my life is invalid.

The world does not exist to validate who I am: I can do that on my own.

[Jockey]

What are "genderbends"?

In fiction it bothers me a lot when gender identity is a non-issue and people changing bodies don't experience any more than mild and fleeting dysphoria.

[Lydian]

What are "genderbends"?

In fiction it bothers me a lot when gender identity is a non-issue and people changing bodies don't experience any more than mild and fleeting dysphoria.

Gender bending is generally when people will draw fanart or sometimes write fanfiction based around a character if they were the opposite gender. I don't really read fanfiction so I've only ever seen the artwork

example: (Just a random first one I found)

[abacct]

I never thought genderbendering was offensive. I think it's fun to look at. It's not supposed to be offensive or enforcing gender binary. Besides, it's kind of hard to show non-binary genders because there really aren't stereotypes for them. :P

[JAKQ7111]

What are "genderbends"?

In fiction it bothers me a lot when gender identity is a non-issue and people changing bodies don't experience any more than mild and fleeting dysphoria.

But not all trans* people feel severe dysphoria, and some don't really feel dysphoria at all. Also, I think that the body-switch thing is a bit different, because they already have the experience of living in their own bodies and being (relatively) comfortable in them. Usually, body-switches are temporary, and the plot of that episode usually revolves around them trying to get back into their own respective bodies. That could be interpreted as being most comfortable in their own skin, and wanting to get out of the other person's.

[cwm dumpster]

I don't think it's offensive. I don't really browse much fanart or read fanfiction, so I'm pretty much neutral to the whole thing since I rarely encounter it. Sometimes when I do, though, I'll actually think it's pretty cool or cute, like when they did the genderbending episode of Adventure Time.

[shaedofblue]

Genderbends that assume cisness and binariness are boring. But my feed is full of trans and nonbinary headcanons, so they are irrelevant to me.

You question looks weird because genderbending traditionally refers to non-normative gender expression, whereas your use of the term is a tumblr/fandom specific thing.

[Guest_49836]

I'll toss in some bits here because this is the internet and I have a computer. Also, I'm not hating ^^ I feel like if people get offended things on the internet they should probably turn their computers off and get real.

I think "genderbending" characters is annoying but not for gender reasons. It simply feels uncreative.I just get bugged when people alter other people's work. Did that artist have permission to draw Esmeralda as a man? Does the man version of Esmeralda also treat Quasimodo as affectionately? Is Quasimodo okay with these interactions? Does the evil-as-all-hell bad guy interact differently with the male version of Esmeralda?
Are these alterations in the story taken into account when this version is drawn?

Were any of these thoughts made when drawing Esmeralda as a man?

There's so much more to a character than appearance and gender, and I feel like the gender-swapping people do completely can disregard all of these complexities. In short, it feels cheap and disrespectful.

I mean, yes, it's completely harmless and all (and its also fun to see IMO, don't get me wrong), and if I had a fictive character that got lots of love and recognition worldwide... I would certainly expect gender-swapped versions, NSFW versions, pony versions, pokémon versions and so on - and so forth. This is the internet, this is exactly what the internet is for, exploring ideas and making things that didn't exist before. I just can't understand why people do it. Instead of just making Esmeralda a man, the artist could have made their own male character with feminine tendencies. It could even be canon to the story of "The Hunchback of Notre Damme"! They could have come up with their own style choices and color schemes rather than just... well... 'stealing' everything about Esmeralda.

No, it's not harmful or offensive, but it feels a little shallow and plagiaristic which is why I personally couldn't see myself investing time in making a gender-swapped drawing. It is also the reason I have a hard time appreciating and respecting this artform.

[mikbuster]

That post reminds me that I kind of did a gender bent story. Based on James Bond, but really Bond was the only character in there based specifically on a character. The whole scene was just a fun thing to write. Some of my friends enjoyed it. I think it's funny in a way because it lampshades some common tropes and stays fairly true to the way Bond acts. Yes, it's interesting to write a character like that when you've never intentionally flirted or experienced sexual attraction...

[~Rikki~]

I find it funny when people say people should get off the internet if they get offended. Well I hope you don't get upset in real life. Might have to stop going out in the real world if that happens eh?

[Guest_49836]

I find it funny when people say people should get off the internet if they get offended. Well I hope you don't get upset in real life. Might have to stop going out in the real world if that happens eh?

I did say that.

The internet abides by different rules than real life.

Being upset isn't synonymous to being offended.

[~Rikki~]

I find it funny when people say people should get off the internet if they get offended. Well I hope you don't get upset in real life. Might have to stop going out in the real world if that happens eh?

I did say that.

The internet abides by different rules than real life.

Being upset isn't synonymous to being offended.

In the case of my post, they are. Don't tell others how to be online when it comes to crappy behavior, if in the real world (which the internet is apart of hello) you aren't gonna stay in your home away from everyone if you ever get offended.

[Guest_49836]

I find it funny when people say people should get off the internet if they get offended. Well I hope you don't get upset in real life. Might have to stop going out in the real world if that happens eh?

I did say that.

The internet abides by different rules than real life.

Being upset isn't synonymous to being offended.

In the case of my post, they are. Don't tell others how to be online when it comes to crappy behavior, if in the real world (which the internet is apart of hello) you aren't gonna stay in your home away from everyone if you ever get offended.

*ambiguous grunt of acknowledgement*

We can have this talk in private if you want, it's not a part of this topic.