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Dan Savage... When your SO cheats, as an Ace, should you care?


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#1 AgentOfEntropy

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:32 AM

Was watching the netflix documentary and found that Dan Savage's comments were kind of grating on me. Out of curiosity, I ran a google search on Savage and Asexuality, and came across this article: http://www.thestrang...eLove?oid=22958 The quote that really caught my eye however, was at the end of his response, where he writes " Hmm, I respectfully dissent. While it's possible that your husband is content with the odd perfunctory blowjob, it's more likely that he doesn't press the matter because he loves you. But he probably misses women's people-parts, INH, and one day the opportunity to fuck the shit out of another woman's people-parts is going to present itself. And this, I think, will be the ultimate test of your asexual cred. If you don't think sex is important, then it shouldn't matter to you if your husband does this hugely unimportant thing with someone else." 

 

This bugged me for some reason. Like just because I'm asexual, I HAVE to accept that my partner may seek sex elsewhere? I think that's a really generalizing statement, and that it would really depend on the individual situation. Me personally? I can't see myself in an open relationship, or sharing my partner with anyone else. 

 

Am I alone in finding Savage's position a little insulting? 


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#2 marki

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:39 AM

That is insulting...like saying to someone who is bi " oh you can't be bi because you really only like one or the other"
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#3 Cake Hater

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:50 AM

That man is pretty crass and obnoxious. I disagree with him completely here. Just because something isn't a part of your relationship doesn't make it free game to bring it into another. If yours is meant to be the highest relationship for both of you, you can be expected to keep it that way. And whether or not sex is "important" to the asexual, its important to the sexual and having a sexual relationship with another person could be seen to elevate that relationship inappropriately. If he wasn't into BDSM, does that give his wife free reign to explore bondage fantasies with another person? I think he'd agree he should have a say, whether or not that's permissible while they're a couple. An asexual should certainly be able to voice their concerns over such a situation without having their asexual 'convictions' questioned.

 

His whole understanding of what asexuality is sounds like it's coming out of left field anyway. The man's not worth listening to.


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#4 AgentOfEntropy

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:03 AM

That is insulting...like saying to someone who is bi " oh you can't be bi because you really only like one or the other"

Yeah, he has a lot of similar statements to bisexuals as he does asexuals. =/ He is very off putting. 



#5 theotherfey

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:18 AM

This is disturbing. Cheating on your partner, asexual or not, is not okay. If one person is asexual, but their partner is sexual and and the asexual is okay with their seeking another "woman's people-parts", then that's more of an open relationship, and is different from cheating.



#6 Amoeba-Proteus

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:29 AM

No... That's not okay.
Regardless of asexuals viewing sex as something unimportant for them, that's still being unfaithful. I feel like most sexuals, if they ARE with an asexual, probably find out fairly fast. You know what you're in. If you're not interested in being faithful in that kind of a relationship, I feel like it's your best option to responsibly end it.


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Hug - The act of engulfing a desired individual, like an amoeba.
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Kiss - The act of chewing and/or slobbering desired individual's face.
French Kiss - The act of licking each others' tongues.
Sex - The act of... engulfing desired individual... in a different way... :blink:
Physical Closeness/Intimacy - A multi-step process of 'lovingly' engulfing and/or 'eating' a desired individual. The only way 'engulfing and/or 'eating' an individual' is considered socially acceptable.
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#7 Mr.Pokeylope

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:32 AM

Asexuals have just as much right to an exclusive relationship as anyone. Mocking people who don't live up to your made up idea of "asexual cred" doesn't change that.


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#8 Touchofinsight

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:32 AM

Well quite honestly I feel like if your a sexual person, you have to be incredibly honest with your self if you can handle having a relationship without having mutually beneficial sex. If your not sure, I'd say let the relationship go... because there are plenty of other people out there. There is no such thing as "soul mates" there are plenty of compatible people out there for you. I say this as someone who isn't "asexual" by the standard definition of never or doesn't feel sexual attraction but as a  males who doesn't want anything to do with any sort of intercourse. So yes it really does end up giving the asexual the short end of the stick, but surprise surprise (sarcasm) when your in an overwhelming minority that tends to be the pattern.

 

However I also have no attachments to "cheating" and I don't feel anyone has the right to say to someone you belong to me sexually, romantically, or in any other way. If you get angry/upset about it... that is your problem, but it's also your right to break up with that person if you incline to do so.

 

Exclusivity doesn't make things better or more valuable in a relationship (IMO). I wish we as people could come to that conclusion and understand that if you have sex or have romantic feelings for another person it doesn't diminish what you may have with someone else but that seems to be an utopian dream.


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#9 Amoeba-Proteus

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:41 AM

Well quite honestly I feel like if your a sexual person, you have to be incredibly honest with your self if you can handle having a relationship without having mutually beneficial sex. If your not sure, I'd say let the relationship go...

Exactly. At least I feel that's the responsible thing to do...


Amoeba's Guide to Physical Closeness/Intimacy:

Hug - The act of engulfing a desired individual, like an amoeba.
Cuddle - Continuous engulfing of desired individual.
Kiss - The act of chewing and/or slobbering desired individual's face.
French Kiss - The act of licking each others' tongues.
Sex - The act of... engulfing desired individual... in a different way... :blink:
Physical Closeness/Intimacy - A multi-step process of 'lovingly' engulfing and/or 'eating' a desired individual. The only way 'engulfing and/or 'eating' an individual' is considered socially acceptable.
Amoeba Proteus - A very bored individual who apparently likes to rant.


#10 Cake Hater

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:41 AM

However I also have no attachments to "cheating" and I don't feel anyone has the right to say to someone you belong to me sexually, romantically, or in any other way. If you get angry/upset about it... that is your problem, but it's also your right to break up with that person if you incline to do so.

 

Exclusivity doesn't make things better or more valuable in a relationship (IMO). I wish we as people could come to that conclusion and understand that if you have sex or have romantic feelings for another person it doesn't diminish what you may have with someone else but that seems to be an utopian dream.

 

Sure, nobody owns you sexually or romantically or in any other way. But when you're in a relationship like that with someone you do owe it to them to be honest about who you do or don't have a deep relationship with on the side. Otherwise your first relationship is only staying intact through your own manipulation. That's not ok.


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#11 starrynight

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:52 AM

Well I don't think Dan Savage meant she should be okay with her husband cheating, at least it's not clear from his words. He said she shouldn't mind her husband having sex with other women, which could very well be an open relationship. And frankly I see some merit in his opinion. If an asexual isn't okay with either having sex or having an open relationship, they'd better not be in a relationship with a highly sexual person in the first place (I'm not necessarily talking about the woman who wrote to Dan; I'm talking generally).

What bothers me more about Dan's response is: 1) He thinks sex repulsion isn't real asexuality and should be treated; 2) He believes a sexual man can't be satisfied with oral sex because intercourse is oh-so-important and can't be replaced by any other kind of sex.
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#12 Cake Hater

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:01 AM

Well I don't think Dan Savage meant she should be okay with her husband cheating, at least it's not clear from his words. He said she shouldn't mind her husband having sex with other women, which could very well be an open relationship. And frankly I see some merit in his opinion. If an asexual isn't okay with either having sex or having an open relationship, they'd better not be in a relationship with a highly sexual person in the first place (I'm not necessarily talking about the woman who wrote to Dan; I'm talking generally).

What bothers me more about Dan's response is: 1) He thinks sex repulsion isn't real asexuality and should be treated; 2) He believes a sexual man can't be satisfied with oral sex because intercourse is oh-so-important and can't be replaced by any other kind of sex.

 

If no sex can be a valid deal breaker for a sexual, required sex on the side with another person should be a valid deal breaker for an asexual. I don't see how it makes them less asexual to feel that way.



#13 starrynight

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:15 AM

If no sex can be a valid deal breaker for a sexual, required sex on the side with another person should be a valid deal breaker for an asexual. I don't see how it makes them less asexual to feel that way.

Sure, it doesn't make them less asexual. I don't agree with that part (which is why I said I see some merit in his opinion, not I totally agree with him, though as a hardcore polyamorist I can't say I'm bothered by that part either), but the sentiment in Dan's response is consistent with his general opinion on mixed relationships (which I believe is sort of what I said in the last post), which I do agree with.


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#14 Sally

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:17 AM

 

 

 I wish we as people could come to that conclusion and understand that if you have sex or have romantic feelings for another person it doesn't diminish what you may have with someone else but that seems to be an utopian dream.

 

If A has romantic feelings for a third person, A's partner B may very well feel that their romantic relationship with A is diminished. 


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#15 mostly harmless

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:55 AM

I do not believe that any one person can claim ownership of any kind over another, however I do believe that if two people agree to be exclusive with one another that if one of said individuals breaks the agreed upon arrangement-- the other, no matter their sexual identity, has a right to be upset. For anyone to suggest otherwise is quite ridiculous. It is especially absurd to suggest that in the case of an asexual, being upset about an exclusive partner having sex with another individual somehow diminishes or discredits their asexuality.
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#16 Philip027

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:05 AM

And this, I think, will be the ultimate test of your asexual cred. If you don't think sex is important, then it shouldn't matter to you if your husband does this hugely unimportant thing with someone else.

 

nope nope nope

 

being asexual =/= thinking sex is unimportant


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#17 Mr.Pokeylope

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:41 AM

 

And this, I think, will be the ultimate test of your asexual cred. If you don't think sex is important, then it shouldn't matter to you if your husband does this hugely unimportant thing with someone else.

 

nope nope nope

 

being asexual =/= thinking sex is unimportant

 

 

He might as well have said "And this, I think, will be the ultimate test of your heterosexual cred. If you don't think same-sex intercourse is important, then it shouldn't matter to you if your husband does this hugely unimportant thing with another man."


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#18 WhenSummersGone

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:35 PM

I think that some people don't realize that anyone can want monogamy regardless of their orientation. I've always been a one guy type of girl and I would look for that in a partner as well. I would rather deal with anyone problems in a relationship myself before sending my partner to someone else.

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#19 Mona Lisa

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:51 PM

It isn't "cheating" per se if it's an open relationship or permission to choose sex with others has been agreed upon in advance. If your partner says they're committed to you and then go out and have sex without you knowing and/or being OK with it, then it's cheating. Cheating is unfair because they have violated your trust, which is vital to a healthy relationship. For some people, sex isn't just physical; it can also be emotional, so it's possible your partner could develop an emotional attachment that harms your relationship. Also, what about if the person they have sex with transmits an STI to your partner? If you're doing anything sexual for your partner's benefit, then that certainly is your business. If your partner is so desperate for sex that they're willing to seek it elsewhere, then they need to discuss it with you, make a reasonable arrangement or break off the relationship.



#20 Nine

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:58 PM

idk who Dan Savage is but I actually was thinking about this pretty recently

like, if I were, hypothetically, to begin a new relationship, how would I handle the sex stuff, granted that I didn't want to do it myself? I wouldn't be bothered if he/she/they got it somewhere else, as long as they came home clean.

Well, not my home. I don't really like other people being here but, well, you know.

That said, my opinion here probably owes more to an unusual idea of what constitutes a romantic relationship, plus not feeling that exclusivity is terribly important.

If the time they spent with me is meaningful, do I really need to care what they do with their time when we're not together? That'd be my sentiment.



#21 1/100 of me

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 04:41 AM

Good lord, I think we've found a recipient for the "shithead of the year" award. Just because you're asexual doesn't mean your partner gets a free pass to cheat on you whenever they want. Of course, some mixed-orientation couples may choose to be polyamorous as a way of making sure everyone's needs are being met; I don't want to discount that but the difference is that polyamory is consensual, cheating is not. If you cheat on your asexual partner, you've still gone against their wishes, you've still broken their trust, and you've still hurt them.
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#22 peanut-butter-cloud

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:07 AM

Honestly, I've never understood why cheating is such a big deal to people.


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#23 Cake Hater

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:59 AM

Honestly, I've never understood why cheating is such a big deal to people.

 

Some might say you've got real asexual cred.


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#24 Hermetess

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:11 AM

Cheating is never right, if I had a sexual partner and through communication we came to the conclusion that a compromise between me engaging in sex and it not being often enough for them then I would be open to having an open relationship where they could get that side of themselves fullfilled. But its not something that should be hidden or lied about. Cheating is unacceptable because it involves sneaking, lying and manipulation. I'd rather know where my partner is at, who they're with and the health history of the person they're with. I may not be sexual with a partner but I'm assuming we're still going to cuddle or maybe kiss and definitely at some point I'll come in contact with some form of their bodily fluids even if its just a paper cut. I need to know if any one they're potentially with has anything I may be exposed to even if I never meet them. 

 

I'm not going to be okay with a partner cheating regardless of our sex life together. Its one of those things I can't even begin to compromise on. I never have (I found my partner of 3 years cheating on me and left that night packing everything into the car and sleeping in it) and I never will. There are other avenues we can explore if they are willing to honestly communicate. 



#25 Mimicura

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:38 AM

I followed that guy on twitter because he came to my college one year (bad idea looking back on it) and a lot of his tweets rub me the wrong way. When he speaks about anything other than being gay I get the feeling he has some ill intention or just doesn't give much of a fuck. I don't think this is even the worst thing I've seen from him. I kinda don't take him seriously anymore.


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#26 Mycroftisyourcroft

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:18 AM

And this, I think, will be the ultimate test of your asexual cred. If you don't think sex is important, then it shouldn't matter to you if your husband does this hugely unimportant thing with someone else." 

 

What the HELL is that supposed to mean? This is the thing that bugs me most about the whole matter. We have to 'prove' our asexuality? It sounds to me like he still thinks that asexuality is a choice, not an orientation, and that if we were proper, fully-arrived asexuals, we would have no problem, but if we are still 'trainee' or 'novice' asexuals, we would be bothered, and therefore can no longer use the term 'asexual' to describe ourselves. 

 

Sorry if I'm wrong, but that is the overwhelming impression I got from reading that line. I don't tend to get annoyed often, but this has really niggled my equanimity  <_< 

 

Side note, similar situation with 'X chose Y' in romantic terms, or so-called 'romantic talking' when X says to Y 'Yes but remember, I chose you'. Urgh, they chose each other (unless it's an arranged marriage, for instance), so I see that phrase as a control freak trying to reassure themselves that THEY are the ones in control here /End Side Note


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#27 swim2thesun

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:37 AM

pretty much anything Dan says is laughable. He has such a skewed view of things, and is apparently unable to take in and retain information.



#28 RoL34

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:03 PM

Honestly, I've never understood why cheating is such a big deal to people.


Well, it's lying and a betrayal. If you have an exclusive relationship with someone, and you agree to stop seeing other people and devote yourself to this one person, and they go off and sleep around then not only was that person lying to you, but clearly does not value the relationship as much as you do. That's a real slap to the face. There is nothing wrong with an open relationship if both parties agree on it, then it's not lying.

As for Dan Savage, fuck that guy. He's dismissive of anyone who is not a gay man.
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#29 Cats.

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:05 PM

Look no further than this for a long long list of all the people Dan Savage is completely insensitive to. There's a fantastic amount of asexual visibility in there :/


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#30 A-listed

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:48 PM

Dan Savage comes across as a smug, ignorant asshole in that documentary (A)Sexual. I don't recall one thing that he said that was accurate or reasonable. Unfortunately, he was portrayed as some sort of expert on the subject, and most of his anti-asexual crap went unrefuted.






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