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When Friendships Devolve Into Relationships


TellerCam

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That's right.

Here's the story of my life. Whenever I'm friends with someone (regardless of their gender, by the way), eventually said person tries getting as close to me as possible, and ultimately, they want to date me. Suddenly, it goes from having another person to talk to, to someone who can't stand being away from me for too long. The cycle constantly repeats:

1) I make a friend.

2) We have interesting conversations.

3) We spend more time together to continue having interesting conversations.

4) We throw lots of ideas around and start bonding over those ideas.

5) I would consider that we're close friends when we recognize each other's speech patterns. (You know what they're going to say next.)

6) I'm perfectly content with the awesome friendship I have.

7) Friend starts hitting on me, and/or starts flirting with me. I get confused.

8) Friend wants to hang out more often. I do it, because I enjoy their friendship.

9) Friend constantly tries to open my mind about the dating world. I say no.

10) Friend acts moody. I have no clue why.

11) Friend doesn't want to see me anymore. I found out that they liked me.

12) I try desperately to recover the friendship, because I don't want to lose them over their feelings.

13) Friendship no longer works. They leave me, and I no longer have friends.

And the cycle repeats. I call it the deterioration of friendships -- when your friends want to be more than friends. I've had mostly women try to date me, but I've also had one man try as well. I'm extremely indifferent to all of it, and I can be somewhat romantic, but it stops at a certain extent. Especially when I realize... Wow, it's weird to kiss my friend. Or huh, our legs are touching, that's really odd. Or yay, a hug, but now they want me to cuddle, but it's so weird because you're my friend. etc. In other words, my mind can't comprehend seeing as anyone as more than just a friend. Even when I was in a few romantic non-sexual relationships, I kept seeing them as really good friends, not as partners or potential spouses.

My question is this. Is there any way to prevent a friendship from forming into a potential relationship? I'd really like to know, because I feel really bad for losing all my friends from this horrible curse.

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it's interesting that you see it as a deterioration, or devolution. obviously some other people see it as an evolution (as a positive one). I just see it as a thing that happens that is neither negative nor positive. Because that is a subjective thing

But yeah, I can definitely imagine what you are talking about!! Luckily I have avoided this but I have heard all too much about those people who whine about being "friendzoned" and stuff. I'd say the best way to prevent somehting like this is to let such person know from the start that you are not available for relationshippy stuff. Or at least at the very first hint of the flirting. Honesty is the best policy in situations like this.

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I'd say the best way to prevent sometjing like this is to let such person know from the start that you are not available for relationshippy stuff. Or at least at the very first hint of the flirting. Honesty is the best policy in situations like this.

This is the sad part: I let all of my friends know that I'm asexual really early into the friendship, to try to protect myself from potential relationships. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. What ends up happening is that every single time without fail, said friend tries to be the first one to convince me that developing a relationship is an extremely beneficial thing for me. They end up being shocked (even though I warn them) that I don't understand their advances towards me at all. I don't even realize they're trying to be flirtatious or that they like me, unless they directly say, "I like you."

Other times, it's way more indirect. Sometimes they'll be a little bit rude or mean, and if I ask why they're doing that, they'll reply jokingly, "It's out of love!" ... However, I wonder if it's implying deeper feelings. I tend to be so dense, I don't even notice. I end up getting sad, because I can't keep any friends, because they always think they'll be the one to cure me of my asexuality. Yeah, that's not happening. It just makes it worse. ("It" being that I react even more negatively than before to getting too close to someone.)

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Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out so intensely and one-on-one with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and mirroring them when they become more intense and intimate.When that starts, you have to bring it down a couple notches. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my little brother." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and less intimate. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on emotional intelligence.

That's right.

Here's the story of my life. Whenever I'm friends with someone (regardless of their gender, by the way), eventually said person tries getting as close to me as possible, and ultimately, they want to date me. Suddenly, it goes from having another person to talk to, to someone who can't stand being away from me for too long. The cycle constantly repeats:

1) I make a friend.

2) We have interesting conversations.

3) We spend more time together to continue having interesting conversations.

4) We throw lots of ideas around and start bonding over those ideas.

5) I would consider that we're close friends when we recognize each other's speech patterns. (You know what they're going to say next.)

6) I'm perfectly content with the awesome friendship I have.

7) Friend starts hitting on me, and/or starts flirting with me. I get confused.

8) Friend wants to hang out more often. I do it, because I enjoy their friendship.

9) Friend constantly tries to open my mind about the dating world. I say no.

10) Friend acts moody. I have no clue why.

11) Friend doesn't want to see me anymore. I found out that they liked me.

12) I try desperately to recover the friendship, because I don't want to lose them over their feelings.

13) Friendship no longer works. They leave me, and I no longer have friends.

And the cycle repeats. I call it the deterioration of friendships -- when your friends want to be more than friends. I've had mostly women try to date me, but I've also had one man try as well. I'm extremely indifferent to all of it, and I can be somewhat romantic, but it stops at a certain extent. Especially when I realize... Wow, it's weird to kiss my friend. Or huh, our legs are touching, that's really odd. Or yay, a hug, but now they want me to cuddle, but it's so weird because you're my friend. etc. In other words, my mind can't comprehend seeing as anyone as more than just a friend. Even when I was in a few romantic non-sexual relationships, I kept seeing them as really good friends, not as partners or potential spouses.

My question is this. Is there any way to prevent a friendship from forming into a potential relationship? I'd really like to know, because I feel really bad for losing all my friends from this horrible curse.

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Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out so intensely and one-on-one with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and mirroring them when they become more intense and intimate.When that starts, you have to bring it down a couple notches. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my little brother." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and less intimate. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on emotional intelligence.

For me, I hang out one-on-one with people because I don't work too well in crowds. I like learning more about people, and I do like hanging out, and it's really hard to develop a friendship (for me personally) if there's more than one person to focus on. My brain can't handle the clutter. I forget who says what. I forget what I told to who. It's easier to be consistent if I focus on hanging out with one person during this specific day, and later, another person on a different specific day. Also, this happens regardless of gender. Also, I don't have an opposite sex, because I'm physically intersex. I've had women and men try to develop relationships with me, which eventually turn into sexual urges that I don't want to be associated with at all. The thing is that on my end, I'm not romantic or sexual at all. My friendship activities tend to be: play video games, play card games, go out to get fast food, drive, and sometimes just sit and talk. It's really not that exciting at all -- it's pretty boring. Yet somehow, it still turns into romance from their end, even though I'm very adamant about NOT being romantic or sexual. I've tried my best to avoid this from happening, but it happens no matter what, and it frustrates me. I'm convinced that I can't have friends unless they're asexual, because then it just degrades into this madness.

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I'd say the best way to prevent sometjing like this is to let such person know from the start that you are not available for relationshippy stuff. Or at least at the very first hint of the flirting. Honesty is the best policy in situations like this.

This is the sad part: I let all of my friends know that I'm asexual really early into the friendship, to try to protect myself from potential relationships. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. What ends up happening is that every single time without fail, said friend tries to be the first one to convince me that developing a relationship is an extremely beneficial thing for me. They end up being shocked (even though I warn them) that I don't understand their advances towards me at all. I don't even realize they're trying to be flirtatious or that they like me, unless they directly say, "I like you."

Other times, it's way more indirect. Sometimes they'll be a little bit rude or mean, and if I ask why they're doing that, they'll reply jokingly, "It's out of love!" ... However, I wonder if it's implying deeper feelings. I tend to be so dense, I don't even notice. I end up getting sad, because I can't keep any friends, because they always think they'll be the one to cure me of my asexuality. Yeah, that's not happening. It just makes it worse. ("It" being that I react even more negatively than before to getting too close to someone.)

Do you just tell them that you are asexual, or flat out say I don't want relationships (sounds like you may be aromantic?)? Being asexual doesn't mean relationships are off the table, so you have to explain in detail that relationships themselves are off the table. If they can't respect that and want to push you for more afterwards, they aren't real friends so good riddance. Developing a crush is normal, trying to force it on someone who has said explicitly they don't anything more is just not cool though. :( Finding people who can respect and value you for who you are and not for what they want you to be is tough, but you'll find them!

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I have this problem. I don't so all that well in groups of people, even small ones, so I tend to hang out one on one. The conversation always feels more relaxed and open and I feel less nervous. I enjoy just talking with one person at a time, getting to know more about them individually then less about more people. (I fully admit I'm not very social though, and kinda introverted, so it's also a 'limits on energy available to give' kind of thing.) I even do the same kind of activities with my friends, it sounds like.

But sometimes this ends up with guys wanting to take it to a romantic relationship, and then getting upset or hurt (which I guess they have a right to be) when I tell them I'm really not interested in romance right now. ( I have yet to use the word asexual, becuase I haven't really figured myself out yet...) And it's the worst when they keep asking, or when the people on the outside of that relationship can't accept it as being nonromantic and start makes jokes or teasing.

So yeah, this is familiar to me too, and I haven't figured out a solution either. I can commiserate, though. It's not much fun at all.

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Do you just tell them that you are asexual, or flat out say I don't want relationships (sounds like you may be aromantic?)? Being asexual doesn't mean relationships are off the table, so you have to explain in detail that relationships themselves are off the table. If they can't respect that and want to push you for more afterwards, they aren't real friends so good riddance. Developing a crush is normal, trying to force it on someone who has said explicitly they don't anything more is just not cool though. :( Finding people who can respect and value you for who you are and not for what they want you to be is tough, but you'll find them!

I tell them I'm asexual. I had horrible past experiences where I didn't tell people I was asexual, and so they constantly tried to get my attention, even to the point of saying they'd commit suicide if I didn't like them back. Whenever I gave in to know them better as a person, then they started pushing romantic advances, which I was fine with at first. ... But then it blew into wanting sexual advances, and that's where I drew the line. NOPE. I'm not going there. Of course, that caused a lot of heart-break, so I've learned that in order to not scar people for life, I need to come out about my asexuality before being friends with anyone. I'm not against having relationships, but I do know for a fact that all the people in my life that I know right now are sexual, and I'd be holding them back. They still want to be with me, and think they can be the first to change my mind, the first one to reform me and make me realize sex isn't a bad thing. Honestly, that just pushes me away even more.

I'm aromantic most of the time, but there are times where I express pan-romantic tendencies, meaning that I'm romantically attracted to people of all genders, including trans and genderqueer. I guess that's what may confuse some of them. I show such an interest in them that they think they can "take it to the next level", and they're shocked at my rejection, even though I warned them that it would happen. It's hard, because sometimes I think I want a relationship, but most people want sexual relationships, and I can't handle that at all. Too much baggage, too much work, too much effort. Also, it creeps me out, and is unnatural to me. I've been really hoping to find people like myself, so I can start over and be around people who won't pressure me into things I'm not okay with. It just feels like whenever I find a really awesome accepting friend, they almost always fall in love with me, and... gah.

But sometimes this ends up with guys wanting to take it to a romantic relationship, and then getting upset or hurt (which I guess they have a right to be) when I tell them I'm really not interested in romance right now. ( I have yet to use the word asexual, becuase I haven't really figured myself out yet...) And it's the worst when they keep asking, or when the people on the outside of that relationship can't accept it as being nonromantic and start makes jokes or teasing.

I definitely know where you're coming from. Usually women are attracted to me, but for the first time, I know a man who's attracted to me. When I rejected the idea that I'd ever get in a relationship (not totally true, because I'd be completely fine with having a relationship with an asexual person), he got so hurt that he resorted to making fun of me constantly, to the point I started wondering if he actually harbored total hatred for me. It wasn't just teasing, it was downright mean.

"Cam, it's all your fault. I dropped it, so it's your fault."

"Cam, I can't find the keys, it's your fault."

"I'm going to name this world... Cam Sucks."

"Sucks to be you. SUCKER. HAHAHAHA."

"Cam, you gotta learn, everything's your fault."

"The way you dress makes me think of a hobo... or a drug addict. You're a drug addict, Cam."

"I know that you have money that you can spend, on me obviously, so next time we hang out... I know you have it."

"I woke up late and missed class, AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT."

*Note: My friend likes to think that everything in existence is my fault, in fact, even his own actions are my fault too apparently. Also, the actions of others are also my fault. In other words... I wonder if he's really insecure. I dunno.

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passionatefriend61

Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out so intensely and one-on-one with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and mirroring them when they become more intense and intimate.When that starts, you have to bring it down a couple notches. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my little brother." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and less intimate. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on emotional intelligence.

For me, I hang out one-on-one with people because I don't work too well in crowds. I like learning more about people, and I do like hanging out, and it's really hard to develop a friendship (for me personally) if there's more than one person to focus on. My brain can't handle the clutter. I forget who says what. I forget what I told to who. It's easier to be consistent if I focus on hanging out with one person during this specific day, and later, another person on a different specific day. Also, this happens regardless of gender. Also, I don't have an opposite sex, because I'm physically intersex. I've had women and men try to develop relationships with me, which eventually turn into sexual urges that I don't want to be associated with at all. The thing is that on my end, I'm not romantic or sexual at all. My friendship activities tend to be: play video games, play card games, go out to get fast food, drive, and sometimes just sit and talk. It's really not that exciting at all -- it's pretty boring. Yet somehow, it still turns into romance from their end, even though I'm very adamant about NOT being romantic or sexual. I've tried my best to avoid this from happening, but it happens no matter what, and it frustrates me. I'm convinced that I can't have friends unless they're asexual, because then it just degrades into this madness.

I completely and totally disagree with the advice to only hang out with people in groups. If you're looking for friendships with any kind of emotional depth or substance, quality time spent together one-on-one is essential. Friendships SHOULD be intimate and even emotionally intense, if that's what you want in your friendships--which is certainly what I want in mine. And unless you're only ever hanging out with sexual people who are sexually attracted to your gender, emotional intimacy and one-on-one time should not lead to this romantic/sexual desire problem every single time. So if you can be read as a female and you hang out with gay men or straight women, then you should be in the clear. Straight men and gay women are the ones you have to be careful with, and even then, if you're open about yourself from the start, then that's all you can do. You have no control over other people's feelings, attractions, etc. If they don't value friendship at all, enough that they'll throw it away as soon as they figure out they're not getting sex/romance out of you ever, then you're better off without them.

I think you should focus on what you DO want in your friendships. Every time you start to worry about this situation happening to you again, gently distract yourself from those thoughts and ask yourself, "What do I want in my friendships/my social life?"

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Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out so intensely and one-on-one with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and mirroring them when they become more intense and intimate.When that starts, you have to bring it down a couple notches. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my little brother." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and less intimate. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on emotional intelligence.

I disagree. I have AvPD, so I can only hang out with, at the maximum, 3 people before I overload myself and start to become anxious. As such, I usually only hang out with one person at a time. I also have more friends of the opposite sex than of the same, and the majority of them are sexual. Certain ones are my cuddle buddies. I personally do not think a friendship should be a thing you TRY hard to cultivate. It seems artificial to me. I want a person to be friends with where I can be myself, which includes platonic intimacy. I do not want a friendship where you have to keep up appearances by planning out situations so they won't potentially become romantically attracted to you. In any case, romantic attraction can develop regardless of one-on-one contact. There are many people who become romantically attracted to others they meet in group settings. Hanging out with your little brother and a friend doesn't prevent your friend from forming a romantic attachment. In addition, sexual people experience sexual attraction. Meaning that they may also develop romantic feelings after becoming sexually attracted to you. All in all, you have no power over who has which feelings.

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he got so hurt that he resorted to making fun of me constantly, to the point I started wondering if he actually harbored total hatred for me. It wasn't just teasing, it was downright mean.

...

*Note: My friend likes to think that everything in existence is my fault, in fact, even his own actions are my fault too apparently. Also, the actions of others are also my fault. In other words... I wonder if he's really insecure. I dunno.

It doesn't sound like this person isn't really a friend. I'm really sorry you're going through this and don't have much practical advice, but I just wanted to offer reassurance that there are lots of people out there who are not like that. I agree that the people you are dealing with sound immature and spiteful.

In my experience, most people don't truly understand asexual. Even if you explain what it means, it's so far outside what they personally experience that they have little to no frame of reference. I've had a lot more success being clear about boundaries and sticking firm to them. Even if not everyone understands at first, those that respect you will try to show it. It gets easier as you feel comfortable with your self and do it more.

Good luck! :cake:

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Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out so intensely and one-on-one with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and mirroring them when they become more intense and intimate.When that starts, you have to bring it down a couple notches. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my little brother." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and less intimate. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on emotional intelligence.

I disagree. I have AvPD, so I can only hang out with, at the maximum, 3 people before I overload myself and start to become anxious. As such, I usually only hang out with one person at a time. I also have more friends of the opposite sex than of the same, and the majority of them are sexual. Certain ones are my cuddle buddies. I personally do not think a friendship should be a thing you TRY hard to cultivate. It seems artificial to me. I want a person to be friends with where I can be myself, which includes platonic intimacy. I do not want a friendship where you have to keep up appearances by planning out situations so they won't potentially become romantically attracted to you. In any case, romantic attraction can develop regardless of one-on-one contact. There are many people who become romantically attracted to others they meet in group settings. Hanging out with your little brother and a friend doesn't prevent your friend from forming a romantic attachment. In addition, sexual people experience sexual attraction. Meaning that they may also develop romantic feelings after becoming sexually attracted to you. All in all, you have no power over who has which feelings.

Agree. I cannot do large group settings either. Most of my friendship interactions are done one-on-one. But, if someone doesn't respect me enough to understand NO means NO when/if they get interested in me, then too bad. If they get pushy, I simply don't have to be around them. But, I have been lucky enough that only one guy ever acted like that and the rest have been really cool about me not being interested and/or being with someone else already.

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Blue Elevator

Hmm. I don't like crowd settings either since I have social anxiety disorder. But, having at least more than one person also along is a good preventative measure. Definitely avoid too much one on one time if possible. Also, don't be stupid like me and recognize the difference at the attempt for a date and a hang out.

Perhaps some people are more comfortable with platonic attachments than others. I had a lot of bad experiences of becoming too attached to people when I was young. It led to people taking advantage of me/being an easy target and I was also fairly obnoxious. I'm very glad that I've calmed down as a person and learned to be more okay just by myself.

But yeah, if people don't take a "no" well, then it is very likely they had ulterior motives from the start and aren't actually your friend. It's not a thing that makes them a bad person, but they're definitely not someone you should mistake for a friend. Also there's a syndrome where people will start to develop romantic attraction/sexual attraction to people they're emotionally attached to. That is also not a bad thing unless they don't respect that you don't feel the same way as them and then proceed to orbit around you.

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Note: My friend likes to think that everything in existence is my fault, in fact, even his own actions are my fault too apparently. Also, the actions of others are also my fault. In other words... I wonder if he's really insecure. I dunno

I'm finding it difficult to understand how you consider this person as a 'friend' when he treats you this way. His disappointment at your unwillingness to have a relationship with him is understandable, but giving you this sort of 'everything is your fault' treatment is the wrong way for him to deal with it. (I know, I've had it done to me). Don't let him do this; you're not a doormat, and deserve better. Cut him out of your life if he won't change.

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Uh, I think you guys need to go back and read wowmoms actual comment. I'm going to bold some parts (grr, mobile app has no bold?), because for some reason everyone is acting like the advice was "become an extrovert and hang out at nightclubs". Here's what was actually said:

Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out SO INTENSELY AND ONE-ON-ONE with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and MIRRORING THEM WHEN THEY BECOME MORE INTENSE AND INTIMATE.When that starts, you have to BRING IT DOWN A COUPLE NOTCHES. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my LITTLE BROTHER." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and LESS INTIMATE. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE.

This is really good advice. Don't want people to fall for you? For crying out loud, stop acting like you're falling for them. If you notice a negative pattern of interaction over a series of unconnected people, likely you're the one who is going to have to change, because you can't change everyone else.

Also, try to stop caring so much about it. People ask each other out and get crushes on friends all the time. You're going to be in constant turmoil if you always get upset about it.

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Oh my fucking God! Dont hang out so intensely and one-on-one with people. When most sexual people hang out with someone of the opposite gender there is a certain amount of sexual tension in their mind, especially if you hang out just the two of you, and do it a lot.Don't help them along by sharing your feelings a bunch and mirroring them when they become more intense and intimate.When that starts, you have to bring it down a couple notches. Like "cool. Lets go eat pizza and watch famly guy with my little brother." Don't be like "tell me more..."Act more casual and less intimate. Invite other friends along so you set the right vibe. Its all about creating an enviroment that budding romance will not survive in, but is still fun. Also, you may want to read up on emotional intelligence.

For me, I hang out one-on-one with people because I don't work too well in crowds. I like learning more about people, and I do like hanging out, and it's really hard to develop a friendship (for me personally) if there's more than one person to focus on. My brain can't handle the clutter. I forget who says what. I forget what I told to who. It's easier to be consistent if I focus on hanging out with one person during this specific day, and later, another person on a different specific day. Also, this happens regardless of gender. Also, I don't have an opposite sex, because I'm physically intersex. I've had women and men try to develop relationships with me, which eventually turn into sexual urges that I don't want to be associated with at all. The thing is that on my end, I'm not romantic or sexual at all. My friendship activities tend to be: play video games, play card games, go out to get fast food, drive, and sometimes just sit and talk. It's really not that exciting at all -- it's pretty boring. Yet somehow, it still turns into romance from their end, even though I'm very adamant about NOT being romantic or sexual. I've tried my best to avoid this from happening, but it happens no matter what, and it frustrates me. I'm convinced that I can't have friends unless they're asexual, because then it just degrades into this madness.
Ok, I get the fact that you hang out better with people one on one, but you need to attempt to think of it from their perspective. If this is a pattern for you, then you are clearly doing SOMETHING that makes you seem receptive to their advances. Insted of blaming it on people who are sexual, why don't you look for what your role is in this problem. If you don't know what you are doing to seem receptive why don't you ASK your friends.
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it's interesting that you see it as a deterioration, or devolution. obviously some other people see it as an evolution (as a positive one).

For me, I hang out one-on-one with people because I don't work too well in crowds. I like learning more about people, and I do like hanging out, and it's really hard to develop a friendship (for me personally) if there's more than one person to focus on.

Yeah, this describes me quite well. I want to meet friends one-on-one because I can focus better on them then, and I would see it positively if a friendship evolves into a relationship, in contrast to TellerCam, although I do not really desire it.

You might get along better with friends that already have a romantic partner. I mean, obviously, the chance that they will want a relationship with you is considerably lower. I at least found out that I can quite well hang out with women when they are in a relationship. Although, I guess society sees it a bit weird when I spend time with someone of the opposite sex one-on-one in the flat she shares with her boyfriend (when he is not at home). :ph34r:

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Calligraphette_Coe

Trouble is, sometimes it starts feeling like Wiley Coyote vs. The Road Runner. (And even the Road Runner got caught once.)

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This is really good advice. Don't want people to fall for you? For crying out loud, stop acting like you're falling for them. If you notice a negative pattern of interaction over a series of unconnected people, likely you're the one who is going to have to change, because you can't change everyone else.

Also, try to stop caring so much about it. People ask each other out and get crushes on friends all the time. You're going to be in constant turmoil if you always get upset about it.

Ok, I get the fact that you hang out better with people one on one, but you need to attempt to think of it from their perspective. If this is a pattern for you, then you are clearly doing SOMETHING that makes you seem receptive to their advances. Insted of blaming it on people who are sexual, why don't you look for what your role is in this problem. If you don't know what you are doing to seem receptive why don't you ASK your friends.

I have had a similar problem off and on my whole life. I finally had to stop and ask myself "What is the common denominator here?" I had to admit it was me and there must be some kind of vibe I was giving off that seemed to others like I was okay with it. It was hard to acknowledge that the behavior that had to change first was mine.

You might get along better with friends that already have a romantic partner. I mean, obviously, the chance that they will want a relationship with you is considerably lower. I at least found out that I can quite well hang out with women when they are in a relationship. Although, I guess society sees it a bit weird when I spend time with someone of the opposite sex one-on-one in the flat she shares with her boyfriend (when he is not at home). :ph34r:

This is exactly what I have had to do. Just stay away from people who are not seriously involved with someone already if they are (gender specific) sexual. I hate having to cut off people I might otherwise enjoy, sometimes to the point of feeling rude, but I feel like I have to protect myself. Maybe from myself.

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This is a really late reply. I got busy with finals and this got buried deep, so I'm resurrecting it to respond, especially now that I have more insight on the situation.

Ah, that makes more sense, thanks for clarifying. Hmm. Tricky. These people sound very immature and unable to handle rejection at all. :(

You're welcome! =) Yeah, that's definitely the case. Rejection is their worst fear.

So if you can be read as a female and you hang out with gay men or straight women, then you should be in the clear. Straight men and gay women are the ones you have to be careful with, and even then, if you're open about yourself from the start, then that's all you can do. You have no control over other people's feelings, attractions, etc. If they don't value friendship at all, enough that they'll throw it away as soon as they figure out they're not getting sex/romance out of you ever, then you're better off without them.

Actually, I get read differently depending on the person. The person who has expressed somewhat romantic inclinations towards me is a straight male who views me as a male as well. I usually have straight women and gay men attracted to me, because I portray myself as male but sometimes I get confused to be female, but my problem is that I've also had gay women and straight men attracted to me as well, such as in this case. It confuses me so much, because it seems like no matter what lengths I go to and what friends I specifically choose, somehow romance develops against all odds. *throws hands up* Sounds amazing to some people, but it's so annoying to me.

In addition, sexual people experience sexual attraction. Meaning that they may also develop romantic feelings after becoming sexually attracted to you. All in all, you have no power over who has which feelings.

Yeah, this summarizes what constantly happens to me, unfortunately. :( I go out of my way to prevent it from happening, to the point I make it clear that I'm a particular gender (male), and then a straight male will end up liking me against the odds. Likewise, I've tried being female, and somehow, straight females will still go for me. The absurdity of the situation ceases to make sense for me.

It doesn't sound like this person isn't really a friend. I'm really sorry you're going through this and don't have much practical advice, but I just wanted to offer reassurance that there are lots of people out there who are not like that. I agree that the people you are dealing with sound immature and spiteful.

In my experience, most people don't truly understand asexual. Even if you explain what it means, it's so far outside what they personally experience that they have little to no frame of reference. I've had a lot more success being clear about boundaries and sticking firm to them. Even if not everyone understands at first, those that respect you will try to show it. It gets easier as you feel comfortable with your self and do it more.

Good luck! :cake:

Thank you so much for your kindness. Surprisingly, he's a really good friend of mine. I really enjoy his company, and he's been really good with all sorts of advice. He just goes through moments where he spontaneously attacks me with insults under pressure, but I just ride it out. At first, he didn't understand that asexuality was a thing, but he's come to understand it. Despite that, he really wishes that it wasn't there, and that there could be something more. I guess it's because I put way too many walls up to the point it's frustrating. Thank you for your advice. =)

Agree. I cannot do large group settings either. Most of my friendship interactions are done one-on-one. But, if someone doesn't respect me enough to understand NO means NO when/if they get interested in me, then too bad. If they get pushy, I simply don't have to be around them. But, I have been lucky enough that only one guy ever acted like that and the rest have been really cool about me not being interested and/or being with someone else already.

That's amazing that most people have been so understanding to you. To be honest, this is the first time it's happening to me. It's not a large recurring theme where someone pursues me despite knowing that I'm asexual. Originally, it was that I was a closet asexual, and people pursued me because I didn't let them know straight out what I was, so they found the painful truth later. In this case, this is the first time that I've openly declared myself to be asexual at the beginning of the friendship, and yet I was still pursued. What the heck?

But yeah, if people don't take a "no" well, then it is very likely they had ulterior motives from the start and aren't actually your friend. It's not a thing that makes them a bad person, but they're definitely not someone you should mistake for a friend. Also there's a syndrome where people will start to develop romantic attraction/sexual attraction to people they're emotionally attached to. That is also not a bad thing unless they don't respect that you don't feel the same way as them and then proceed to orbit around you.

I would definitely consider this person to be my friend, because we've known each other for six years, and we were really casual until recently. At the start, we were really passive and whatever to each other, acquaintances at best. As time went on, we would see each other at social gatherings and chat, but even then, it was really bland. It was only this year that we decided to hang out one-on-one for the first time, and our friendship is pretty strong. It's only one aspect that's weak, and it's in the fact that he really needs to be in a relationship (and isn't in one right now), and I have no need whatsoever (and I'm also not in a relationship). Of course, putting two single straight guys together -- who knew that a romance would bud? It's really unexpected. I really don't want to shut him out of my life because of something so small. Thankfully, it's only something that comes up sporadically, but I wish it didn't come up at all.

I'm finding it difficult to understand how you consider this person as a 'friend' when he treats you this way. His disappointment at your unwillingness to have a relationship with him is understandable, but giving you this sort of 'everything is your fault' treatment is the wrong way for him to deal with it. (I know, I've had it done to me). Don't let him do this; you're not a doormat, and deserve better. Cut him out of your life if he won't change.

Thank you. He's in the process of changing his attitude, and trying not to be so pushy/aggressive with me, because if pushed too hard, I become ruthless. I can tolerate quite a lot. If he's bullying me, I'm passive and ignore it. If he continues with it, I call it out and my tone is very serious. He usually calms down at that point, realizing that it's actually pissing me off. He's apologized about it before. He's still my friend despite this behavior. I'm just really sad that I can't form normal friendships, and that to some degree, I'll always have to worry about someone eventually falling in love with me, even though that would go against their sexual orientation.

This is really good advice. Don't want people to fall for you? For crying out loud, stop acting like you're falling for them. If you notice a negative pattern of interaction over a series of unconnected people, likely you're the one who is going to have to change, because you can't change everyone else.

Also, try to stop caring so much about it. People ask each other out and get crushes on friends all the time. You're going to be in constant turmoil if you always get upset about it.

I agree that it's really good advice. However, it only somewhat applies to my situation. I don't know how to "act" like I'm falling for someone. Honestly, I always show no interest. If I'm interested in something, it's usually about cultural background, religion, science, or something intelligent to talk about. Sometimes I ask about personal experiences and life stories, because I get intrigued with different viewpoints. I usually keep it really chill. I'm aromantic and touch-phobic, so if anyone even gets close to me, I cringe and move away. I'm already putting up my boundaries and acting like nothing can form, so I don't get how that could be an environment conducive to forming a relationship -- I've been told that it's because I'm playing hard to get, and I truly am hard to get, BUT all I'm doing is being myself and refusing romantic advances. I really try not to care too much about it -- I myself had somewhat of a crush on him back in the day, six years ago, but I didn't fully understand why. I have random crushes too. What freaks me out is when people actually do something about it. I get crushes and do nothing. I only get upset when I've already clearly stated "I DON'T WANT THIS", and then the person pursues nonetheless. What the heck -- how much more can I say no? :angry:

Ok, I get the fact that you hang out better with people one on one, but you need to attempt to think of it from their perspective. If this is a pattern for you, then you are clearly doing SOMETHING that makes you seem receptive to their advances. Insted of blaming it on people who are sexual, why don't you look for what your role is in this problem. If you don't know what you are doing to seem receptive why don't you ASK your friends.

I actually did ask recently. It's mostly because he's not in a relationship right now, and he really loves our friendship dynamics. I like it too, but not to the point where I would make romantic advances. I've even mentioned that I was thinking about dating an asexual, and he truly wants the best for me and he wants me to be happy, he's just going through a hard time because he wants to be in a serious relationship with a girl who's his ex. They'd been together for four years (and they're still really young) and he wants that relationship again, but she doesn't want it anymore. I really feel bad for him. I think we both know that anything between us wouldn't work in a traditional way, but his emotions are rather powerful, while mine are significantly toned down. I really try to sympathize. I do want to be his friend and I want to be there for him. I guess it's the fact that I'm the friend that's always there that causes people to think that I care romantically for them, when in all reality, I just really want them to not feel alone, because I know what it's like to be hated and alone.

Yeah, this describes me quite well. I want to meet friends one-on-one because I can focus better on them then, and I would see it positively if a friendship evolves into a relationship, in contrast to TellerCam, although I do not really desire it.

You might get along better with friends that already have a romantic partner. I mean, obviously, the chance that they will want a relationship with you is considerably lower. I at least found out that I can quite well hang out with women when they are in a relationship. Although, I guess society sees it a bit weird when I spend time with someone of the opposite sex one-on-one in the flat she shares with her boyfriend (when he is not at home). :ph34r:

I would probably see it as positive too, if only the effects on me weren't negative. I usually get emotional distress, because it's a huge amount of pressure that I can't handle. I actually have the worst luck ever, because I tried being friends with my friend's sister, but she developed romantic attraction to me anyway, even though she's going to be ENGAGED to someone else. As in, she kept touching me, kept invading my personal bubble, kept getting way too close, kept suggesting things, etc. Currently, both of my friends live with their mom, and they have long-term relationship experience, while I live in an annex off my dad's house and I have no relationship experience, but I'm much more independent. I don't need to be in a relationship to feel fulfilled. I also thought it was weird that a brother and a sister (both straight) fell for someone who looks androgynous and who identifies as male. What? :huh:

Trouble is, sometimes it starts feeling like Wiley Coyote vs. The Road Runner. (And even the Road Runner got caught once.)

Yeah. :(

I have had a similar problem off and on my whole life. I finally had to stop and ask myself "What is the common denominator here?" I had to admit it was me and there must be some kind of vibe I was giving off that seemed to others like I was okay with it. It was hard to acknowledge that the behavior that had to change first was mine.


This is exactly what I have had to do. Just stay away from people who are not seriously involved with someone already if they are (gender specific) sexual. I hate having to cut off people I might otherwise enjoy, sometimes to the point of feeling rude, but I feel like I have to protect myself. Maybe from myself.

In my really weird and rare case, the fault isn't really with me to my knowledge. I've thought about what I do to make people fall for me, and according to my friends, they say, "Because you're hard to get. Since you're not available, you're something to be desired." To me, that's really creepy, but I don't know how to say anymore "no" than NO! I've even been told, "No is the biggest yes." ... WHAT? :evil: HOW MORE DO I SAY NO!? I've even mentioned that people will fall for me even if they're taken or in a serious relationship, hence my extreme frustation. It's to the point where I don't even know what to do anymore, hence why I made this thread. However, on the optimistic side, since I'm so stern about my position that nobody is romantically pursuing me anymore, but they tend to see it as I'm being stubborn right now, the potential is still there, and eventually I'll change my mind. <_<

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This sounds totally confusing for you! From an outside perspective, you appear to not only create and generate closeness, you also appear to attract others very well. The problem appears to be in establishing clear boundaries, for yourself or others. Things seem to get away from you. And that is ok! However, in these cases....YOU are the common denominator...not the others....thus it is your responsibility and privilege to identify what IS working (because you DO connect with others) and what is not working (hurting them through ambiguous mixed messages) Therein lies the problem....a lack of clarity....what you are telling them or yourself....does not work. I sense that you do not wish to hurt others....but you are with a lack of clarity and self awareness. I have no absolute solution, that you must find within yourself. Stay on here and talk to others...care about your friends and potential friends....and find within yourself the answers to your vague and unclear communications.

Take care!

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This sounds totally confusing for you! From an outside perspective, you appear to not only create and generate closeness, you also appear to attract others very well. The problem appears to be in establishing clear boundaries, for yourself or others. Things seem to get away from you. And that is ok! However, in these cases....YOU are the common denominator...not the others....thus it is your responsibility and privilege to identify what IS working (because you DO connect with others) and what is not working (hurting them through ambiguous mixed messages) Therein lies the problem....a lack of clarity....what you are telling them or yourself....does not work. I sense that you do not wish to hurt others....but you are with a lack of clarity and self awareness. I have no absolute solution, that you must find within yourself. Stay on here and talk to others...care about your friends and potential friends....and find within yourself the answers to your vague and unclear communications.

Take care!

Thanks! Yeah, I know it sounds rather odd, but all of what I said is true. I really love having close friendships, but it disappoints me when it becomes something deeper. I'm still not quite sure I see it as a negative thing. Ultimately, my stance towards my friends is: "I love you all very much, and I want the best for you, but I'm really not interested in romantic/sexual relationships. I just really want to be your friend, and that is the happiest possible situation for me. I want you to move on past me, and find someone you can spend the rest of your life with. I feel really bad if it's me, because I can't really reciprocate, no matter how much I try to. Since I don't want you to feel bad, and since it hurts me to see you sad, I want you to pursue happiness, but just know that I'll always be your friend." I guess what makes it all seem so confusing is that a lot of people tend to have mixed friendship/romantic/sexual thoughts, where they're all one concept, while for me, they're totally separate. They think that because I'm their friend, some day we'll be more than friends. However, to me, if someone is my friend, they will always be my friend unless they don't want to talk to me anymore. What also doesn't help is that I have erotophobia (http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/96441-erotophobia/), so because of my fear, I go way out of my way to avoid these sorts of situations because they terrify me inside. I don't look afraid on the outside, but inwardly, it's killing me.

I'm definitely trying to figure it out. Thank you so much for your kind words. :)

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In many ways, I am exactly the same! :) I understand myself and my motivation, it is good, kind and generously given. I state my boundaries then don't think about it....simply because I do not see things the way that sexual people do...especially when I was younger, I was so often confused when others would end up some where I couldn't understand and totally in my bubble making me feel odd and uncomfortable! And at 51? I still have no clear answers...I have just gotten much better at hitting the brakes and identifying that "NO" is a complete sentence, thought and message. That I no longer feel compelled to explain or qualify. Try it on a stranger....just say no....and bite your tongue....see how it feels and if it might be a communication option for you! :) It actually becomes much easier with time...and works fairly well overall! :) It is very nice to meet you and good luck! But I have to state...it is awesome that you are kind...everything else is simply details to be worked out!

Happy Holidays!

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.diva plavalaguna.

I agree with wowmom and Skullery Maid. Also, there's really nothing you can do to stop someone from developing those kinds of feelings for you short of being a total asshole or something. All you can do is tell them that you're not interested. You may not know you are doing anything that you identify as showing interest, but there is clearly something you're doing with these people that DOES express that interest whether you want it to or not.

Personally, if someone took a large interest in my life and likes and wanted to hang out with me one on one quite often, I would most likely take that as romantic interest, especially if I don't know about the issue with hanging out in larger groups. I prefer getting to know the people I crush on as friends first, and if the feeling is strong enough I probably can't just be friends with them when they don't have the same feeling. It's not really a bad or good thing, I think, but to keep in that relationship after being rejected would basically be like drinking poison just because it tastes good... I'd at least need time to get over it before we could have an actual friendship again.

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passionatefriend61

I should've said this in my first reply: I think the answer is to only be serious friends with other asexuals. That's the conclusion I've come to in my own life, and I don't even have the problem you have, OP. Asexuals make better friends, period. We value friendship in ways sexual people don't, and we will never end up wanting sex from our friends. Even if we fall for a friend romantically, we're more likely to continue being friends with them after romantic rejection simply because we do value friendship for its own sake. And many of us generally don't treat friends like shit the minute a romantic partner comes along, so there's another huge benefit.

I know that meeting other asexuals you like is easier said than done, whether you're looking for friends or a partner, but it's possible. So I would start to set your sights on that possibility.

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Lambda Corvus

All throughout reading these replies I was thinking "I am so glad I only have asexual friends". Seriously, if you seek friends within the asexual community, you will have none of the problems associated with the sexual attraction that your current friends feel. Nobody will go on a crusade to 'cure' you. You can still have relationships without the sex, if you so choose.

I do think many of us asexuals attach a different value to friendship than sexuals. For sexual people, they may see friendship as a means to a (sexual) end, whereas we are able to have friends just to have friends. Honestly, the rest of the world confuses me; the interplay between friendship, romance, and sex all seems very mushy and unpredictable. At the same time, I imagine that there is a terrible amount of strategy going on, with people wondering if they will get to have sex with this friend or that, or how they can sabotage the relationship among their friends for their own (sexual) profit. Perhaps I am just paranoid.

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I am in love with my asexual best friend. I've been in love with her before she find out her sexuality. I always dreamt of us being a couple but it was nothing but a dream. I knew she never was into me like that and I knew I would never move on from my love for her. All I ever wanted was her to be happy, I dont want our friendship to change because of my feelings. I am afraid of losing her and our friendship is enough for me.

The friends you made were people who can not respect you, they were lonely people who tried to change someone and that means they truly didnt love you. They wanted to boost their ego and pride for changing someone who never wanted a romantic relationship. Its hard finding true friends it takes time and patients to find the right people you want in your life.

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ethereal_energy

For me, I hang out one-on-one with people because I don't work too well in crowds. I like learning more about people, and I do like hanging out, and it's really hard to develop a friendship (for me personally) if there's more than one person to focus on. My brain can't handle the clutter. I forget who says what. I forget what I told to who. It's easier to be consistent if I focus on hanging out with one person during this specific day, and later, another person on a different specific day. Also, this happens regardless of gender. Also, I don't have an opposite sex, because I'm physically intersex. I've had women and men try to develop relationships with me, which eventually turn into sexual urges that I don't want to be associated with at all. The thing is that on my end, I'm not romantic or sexual at all. My friendship activities tend to be: play video games, play card games, go out to get fast food, drive, and sometimes just sit and talk. It's really not that exciting at all -- it's pretty boring. Yet somehow, it still turns into romance from their end, even though I'm very adamant about NOT being romantic or sexual. I've tried my best to avoid this from happening, but it happens no matter what, and it frustrates me. I'm convinced that I can't have friends unless they're asexual, because then it just degrades into this madness.

I prefer to hang out one-on-one as well. And I have the same problem. It's funny because if I voice this problem to other people in my life, then they don't see it as a problem at all. I guess "Oh no, everyone I talk to falls in love with me" doesn't sound that bad to a lot of people. My friend gives me the same advice, to not hang out alone, and instead do casual, public group meetings. I don't like that. I feel awkward in groups, and I like the comfort of hanging out somewhere private. I also like talking to my friends a really lot, and apparently you can't do that either. At this point I don't know what to do, but I will certainly not change anything for now. I like the closeness of my friendships, but I wish we could have that without a romantic component on their end. It's even worse if the romantic component is on my end too though, and if I know I can't/shouldn't date them! I hope that doesn't happen to you. Even if you say you're not interested in romance or sex, they still can't help it. It's usually innocent; they like you a lot and they can't help that it's romantic. It's not innocent when they stop talking to you eventually because of it. That means that although the only reason they were talking to you wasn't for romance, it was still a key factor, and enough to end the friendship. To me a really good friendship would still be fine if one person had romantic feelings. If one shares their thoughts about having romantic feelings, then it can even strengthen the friendship because of the comfort of sharing things with one another.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Too often, we think we can rescue someone or they can rescue us. That's how the line is often crossed between platonic friendship and romantic love. Here's a quote from and commentary on that quote:


Nathaniel Branden is an American psychotherapist who has published a lot of work around self-esteem.

The story goes that Branden, talking to a group of students, said “No one is coming to save you.”

One of them piped up, “You came!”, to which he replied “Yes, and I came to tell you no one is coming.”

The one person that will stay constant throughout our lives is us. We are the only people we can rely on, and the sooner we can take responsibility for ourselves, the more we can be ourselves.

Add a pinch of Gibran:


And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit. For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mystery is not love but a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable is caught. And let your best be for your friend. If he must know the ebb of your tide, let him know its flood also. For what is your friend that you should seek him with hours to kill? Seek him always with hours to live. For it is his to fill your need, but not your emptiness. And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures. For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.

It might seem like these two thoughts contradict one another, but really, they don't. Only when you feel being yourself is enough can you loose the chains of attachment that bind and often prevent enduring friendships to form while keeping them from 'devolving' as this thread laments. Ask most long time lovers, and they'll tell you... when the passion cools, it's the sweetness of friendship that remains. Those friendships don't last because of romance, but in spite of it.

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