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"'Preferred' pronouns gain traction at US colleges"


bookwormgirl

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I don't identify as transgender or genderqueer, but I thought people should see this article if they haven't already. Yahoo tends to make poor grammar and wording choices, and I am sorry for that, but I was happy to see an article like this up at all.

http://news.yahoo.com/preferred-pronouns-gain-traction-us-colleges-064437446.html

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iamphoenixfire

Well, I'll say that that is pretty damn awesome.

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That's a very good thing.

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"I just tell them the application asks you to mark your sex and I did. It didn't ask me for my gender."

Excellent line; however, I'm almost certain the application used the word "gender" in the place of "sex," because people seem to think the words are interchangeable or something--ESPECIALLY in papers such as applications, because the word "sex" is pretty risque for some people to type or look at for whatever reason.

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Although I can see the problem with the system in use now, I have enough trouble remembering names as it is! If I then need to remember preferred pronouns linked to every name as well I can see a social minefield looming; never mind whether to keep doors open for others or not... If this becomes the norm I can see me socialising even less... Am I the only one seeing things this way? I professionally work with groups of all sizes and individuals I've not met before BTW... Whish exacerbates the above significantly...

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Why can't you hold doors open for everyone? Is there some sort of compulsion for you to not show courtesy to people in general, but rather only to certain ones?

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Why can't you hold doors open for everyone? Is there some sort of compulsion for you to not show courtesy to people in general, but rather only to certain ones?

what I meant was the stereotypical issue that turns up in conversations these days; linked to feminism - 'will women be offended if you hold the door open for them or not'... it's just a phrase to illustrate a point, not a point of intent or for discussion. Of course I would hold doors open for everyone. Sorry if the way I said things didn't make this clear enough.

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ethereal_energy

All of the pronouns are hard to learn and get used to, but I feel that it's important. Last year my school handed out little cards with pronoun [English] conjugations on them. Granted, it's a liberal arts college, but still. It has to start somewhere. I think the cards were helpful to get people to start recognizing the other pronouns. Some teachers don't like it if you just say "he" or "his" in a paper when referring to singular ambiguous people. They prefer "he or she," etc. or even "they," even though it's hard in a paper because "they" can be taken for bad grammar instead of the singular pronoun. More gender-neutral bathrooms will start showing up eventually too.

Sorry about the confusing reply; I'm sure someone else could have said that way better than me (feel free to do so.)

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Lambda Corvus

Reading this makes me happy, but a little sad that my preferred pronoun has not yet been regarded. Thanks for posting this!

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Why oh why did I think reading the comment section was a good idea...

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Why oh why did I think reading the comment section was a good idea...

I think there should be a new rule #1 for the internet: if you enjoy your current mood, never read the comment section. XD

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House of Chimeras

Really cool article. Wish more places and such did this for people.

Why oh why did I think reading the comment section was a good idea...

I think there should be a new rule #1 for the internet: if you enjoy your current mood, never read the comment section. XD
Agreed. Started reading the comments and then wondered "what was I thinking..."
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I speak a language that lacks gendered pronouns so I never really understood the extent of this problem. Actually, while learning English I thought it was incredibly handy to be able to say the word they twice in a row while referring to two different people without having to say their names. However, as much as I understand a pre-op transman wanting to be called he, I cannot understand the more exotic pronouns, anything that isn't he, she or they, that is. As far as I understand, they aren't grammatically correct and it'd be a huge inconvenience having to force everyone around you to learn a whole new word (and its inflections) just to refer to one person, especially since they seem to vary so much from ze to xi to ve. It just seems like it was invented by someone whose ego was so large that they wanted to bend the very laws of the language to their will. How is it related to gender anymore? The word they just makes so much more sense.

Remembering everyone's names is already enough of a hassle.

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I cannot understand the more exotic pronouns, anything that isn't he, she or they, that is. As far as I understand, they aren't grammatically correct and it'd be a huge inconvenience having to force everyone around you to learn a whole new word (and its inflections) just to refer to one person, especially since they seem to vary so much from ze to xi to ve. It just seems like it was invented by someone whose ego was so large that they wanted to bend the very laws of the language to their will. How is it related to gender anymore? The word they just makes so much more sense.

I, too, think that a neutral pronoun should be officially adopted for all languages that don't have one already, because it would make things way easier for everyone. However, keep in mind that all languages are basically "invented" as you say. Words don't come out of nowhere - they enter the dictionaries after having been used for ages. That's what's happening to singular "they" right now. If you asked anyone about its singular usage fifty years ago, I bet you would've been told the same you just said about other non-gendered pronouns.

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I, too, think that a neutral pronoun should be officially adopted for all languages that don't have one already, because it would make things way easier for everyone. However, keep in mind that all languages are basically "invented" as you say. Words don't come out of nowhere - they enter the dictionaries after having been used for ages. That's what's happening to singular "they" right now. If you asked anyone about its singular usage fifty years ago, I bet you would've been told the same you just said about other non-gendered pronouns.

You have a point, languages aren't static things. They is an incredibly handy word even when not used in the context of genderqueer people, since using it doesn't require knowing the person's gender at all beforehand. It removes the need to make assumptions about someone beforehand, which is an improvement. However, what I meant to say was that they is a perfectly good word for this as is, taking away the need to invent new words, which seems to be what some people are doing. In case I got it wrong, just how 'official' is the word they in this context anyway? If it's recent then I understand that they may be words trying to compete with it, hence the ze/zy/zo/zum or such.

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Frac, the reason why people are against using "they" is that you have some hard-won grammar purists who will not budge from their belief that "they" should always be a third person plural pronoun. And, yes, it is recent. I'd say within the last five years. I was using "they" as a singular pronoun in middle school (roughly ten years ago), but my teachers would tell me it was grammatically incorrect. More recently, I find that teachers are more lax on its use, but it's still not seen as grammatically correct.

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Why oh why did I think reading the comment section was a good idea...

I normally look at the comment section, but I couldn't bring myself to even glance at it this time. I know how ugly the comments can get...in this case, I REALLY didn't want to know what was being said there. Now I'm thinking that was the right move. :unsure:

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