Are You Unassailable?

[TheAdrift]

"There is sometimes pressure in the asexual community to be a "gold star" asexual. That is, to have no quality about oneself that might allow some person to challenge our asexuality. The unassailable asexual is completely neurotypical and has never had any health issues, physical or mental. They are cis, indifferent, between the ages of twenty and forty, and sex-positive. They do not masturbate but have no history of any kinds of sexual problems. They have never been abused in any way.

Read more:http://shadedtriangle.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=comebacks&action=display&thread=18#ixzz2ixJHAhsr

So I saw this thing, and decided to see whether I would pass or fail the "Unassailable Asexual" test:

• Neurotypical: As far as I know, pass.
• No Physical Health Issues: Ehhh… I’m obese, but otherwise pretty healthy. Pass.
• No Mental Health Issues: TECHNICALLY a pass since I’ve never been diagnosed, but mental health issues run rampant in my family, so I may never know for sure. I know I picked up a little of the OCD (the hoarding variant) from Dad’s side, aaaand I’ve read the description of Schizoid Personality Disorder and it fits me almost exactly, but since I’m not a mental health professional, I say I pass.
• Cisgendered: Pass.
• Indifferent: Pass.
• Between Twenty and Forty: Pass—I’m 22.
• Sex-Positive: See “indifferent”. I really, REALLY don’t care. I am neither sex-positive nor sex-negative. DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. (For convenience, let's say I pass.)
• Nonlibidoist: Fail.
• Sexual Problems: Again, never been tested, so I’m gonna say “pass.”
• No Abuse: Pass.

• And the one that someone else added—conventionally attractive: EPIC FAIL!

So that's... 9 out of 11. That's an 81%.

Well, damn.

This has made me rethink doing activism, or at least it's made me rethink HOW I do activism, because it seems like the community doesn't really need more voices like me. There are a lot of things I don't know about, and I've never felt like I should be the "Breed Standard" of asexuals or whatever. But I do wonder: as a community, how do we solve this? Is it solvable? What happens now? And what do you think about the fact that other communities can tend to have this problem too, of putting the "Best In Show" on display and pretending it's the whole community?

I'm interested to see how some of the other people here fare--post your results below!

[Robin L]

But I do wonder: as a community, how do we solve this? Is it solvable? What happens now? And what do you think about the fact that other communities can tend to have this problem too, of putting the "Best In Show" on display and pretending it's the whole community?

We have a thread here about asexual elitism. You might want to give it a read.

[The B]

I interpreted the thread differently.

I think OP is trying to say - do we really need people with the above qualities to be the dominant voice of asexual activism? Is it erasing people who don't fit that mold? What do we do about it?

[Philip027]

I don't really see what most of that stuff has to do with it, but I actually do think that for the most part I'm pretty "unassailable"

Almost everyone I tell that I'm ace doesn't question it because they have known me for long enough to believe it

[WhenSummersGone]

Just for fun:

Neurotypical: Pass.

No Physical Health Issues: Pass.

No Mental Health Issues: Fail.

Cisgendered: Fail.

Indifferent: Pass.

Between Twenty and Forty: Pass.

Sex-Positive: Pass.

Nonlibidoist: Fail.

Sexual Problems: Pass.

No Abuse: Fail.

Conventionally attractive: Fail. (I personally don't think I'm attractive.)

6/11. I'm surprised one of the questions isn't whether we have had sex or not. You'd think we should all be virgins.

[Satin]

So the question is do we want a certain type of asexual to be the "flagship" that represents us and what are the consequences? I think it's quite normal that a certain type of asexual will be the one that people most commonly have in mind when thinking of asexuality. We all imagine people in a certain way. All we really can do against it is emphasising that we're a very heterogenous group and pretty much the only thing we have in common is that we're asexual. Speak up anytime somebody assumes you're this way or other because they think all asexuals are that way.

Btw what's meant with the "indifferent" characteristic? Indifferent to what?

[Janus the Fox]

The unassailable asexual is completely neurotypical and has never had any health issues, physical or mental. They are cis, indifferent, between the ages of twenty and forty, and sex-positive.

well im out from that seeing I'm not NT, has had physical and mental health issues and not cis. Obviously this excludes the vast majority of aces here I see.

[TheAdrift]

Btw what's meant with the "indifferent" characteristic? Indifferent to what?

I actually don't really know... I guess it means "not repulsed"? I didn't make that list--I got it from that link up there.

I posted because swankivy did a couple of videos on youtube about this. IT's just people that can't be challenged when they say that they're an asexual, because a lot of people coin the asexuality to be a symptom of other problems. I think that this whole label is stupid and a huge problem because it doesn't include those with these problems. Despite all of your problems, you're asexual because you're asexual. Don't let anyone take that away from you by calling it a symptom.

WOOHOO, someone said exactly what I was trying to say, but in a much more concise and organized way! Thank you, kind poster. And I just saw her two-part series and thought "hmm, I wonder if this term has been discussed here before, and I wonder if I could get other people thinking about how that term relates to themselves..."

But I do wonder: as a community, how do we solve this? Is it solvable? What happens now? And what do you think about the fact that other communities can tend to have this problem too, of putting the "Best In Show" on display and pretending it's the whole community?

We have a thread here about asexual elitism. You might want to give it a read.

I was not trying to be an elitist, I was simply discussing a phenomenon that happens among spokespeople, and furthermore examining my OWN activism and wondering if maybe the community needs a voice that I don't have. With this thread, I was trying to encourage others to similarly examine their own brands of activism and come up with solutions about how to be more inclusive.

And I will thank you NOT to take things I say out-of-context again.

I interpreted the thread differently.

I think OP is trying to say - do we really need people with the above qualities to be the dominant voice of asexual activism? Is it erasing people who don't fit that mold? What do we do about it?

Yes, thank you--that is exactly what I was trying to say.

[5_♦♣]

Fail.

Pass.

Fail.

Pass.

Pass.

Pass.

Pass.

Fail.

Pass.

Half pass, half fail. I just read the link.

Somewhat... I do have a small waist, though I also have small boobs and I can't see my behind, so I'm not sure if it's round or not.

[Honey_Badger]

• Neurotypical: Well, I already fail that measure.

No Physical Health Issues: Chronic tendonitis, other than that, I guess I pass.

No Mental Health Issues: PTSD. No word on whether the suspected Seasonal Affective Disorder is actually just tied to that.

Cisgendered: Yes.

Indifferent: Very.

Between Twenty and Forty: 21

Sex-Positive: If there's consent, go for it. I'll be over here in my pillow fort, ignoring you.

Nonlibidoist: Erm... wobbly yes.

Sexual Problems: Does Polycistic Ovarian Syndrome count? I should have listed that above...

No Abuse: No sexual abuse in my past... but due to eight years of psychological torture and the resulting PTSD, I probably fail this measurement too.

• Conventionally Attractive: Plainish.

About 7/11... Though, having filled out the survey, I'm beginning to wonder what percentage of the sexual population is completely neurotypical, free of mental and physical health issues, has no lasting trauma or sexual problems, is conventionally attractive, cisgendered, and is between 20 and 40. (Obviously, there isn't an equivalent for Indifferent, Sex-Positive, and Nonlibidoist.)

The answer: It's definitely not a majority, so bring on the assailants, because I argue with people all the time. :)

[ThorHera]

WHY does it stop at age 40? Like, are there NO asexuals beyond 40? pfft.

[Tenebre]

• Neurotypical: I (and other people) have my doubts but have never been diagnosed. Half point.

No Physical Health Issues: Fail. Rather spectacularly.

No Mental Health Issues: Fail. No diagnosis but I'm trying to get one for depression and possible bipolar disorder because there's no way what's going on can be considered normal.

Cisgendered: Pass.

Indifferent: Very.

Between Twenty and Forty: Pass.

Sex-Positive: Yup. Indifferent when it involves me, positive when it involves consenting people who are doing their own thing.

Nonlibidoist: Fail.

Sexual Problems: Never tested. Presuming a pass.

No Abuse: Pass.

• And the one that someone else added—conventionally attractive: ...I have no way of quantifying this so not counting.

65%

With the virginity thing, it seems like you can't win either way. Haven't had sex? How do you know you won't 'become' sexual when you try it? Have tried sex? Can't be asexual.

[TheAdrift]

WHY does it stop at age 40? Like, are there NO asexuals beyond 40? pfft.

Though, having filled out the survey, I'm beginning to wonder what percentage of the sexual population is completely neurotypical, free of mental and physical health issues, has no lasting trauma or sexual problems, is conventionally attractive, cisgendered, and is between 20 and 40. (Obviously, there isn't an equivalent for Indifferent, Sex-Positive, and Nonlibidoist.)

The answer: It's definitely not a majority, so bring on the assailants, because I argue with people all the time. :)

Yep, and this is exactly the point: the idea is that this set of traits doesn't describe a majority--it just describes the people who tend to wind up as spokespeople for the entire community, perhaps at the expense of proper representation for everyone involved.

[Guest]

• Neurotypical: Yep
• No Physical Health Issues: Yep
• No Mental Health Issues: Yep
• Cisgendered: Yep
• Indifferent: Yep
• Between Twenty and Forty: Yep
• Sex-Positive: Yes
• Nonlibidoist: Nope
• Sexual Problems: Yep
• No Abuse: Yep

10/11, do I get a prize :P

[Masque_Ace]

• Neurotypical: Pass by default - never been diagnosed otherwise.
• No Physical Health Issues: Pretty sure that's a pass.
• No Mental Health Issues: Again, pass by default - never been diagnosed otherwise.
• Cisgendered: Fail. I identify as agendered.
• Indifferent: Pass.
• Between Twenty and Forty: Fail. I'm 17.
• Sex-Positive: Pass (I thinks this means being pro everybody's sexual freedom to choose what they do and/or don't wish to do sexually more so than "sex is this awesome thing we should all be doing")
• Nonlibidoist: Fail.
• No Sexual Problems: Pretty sure that's a pass.
• No Abuse: Pass... I think. That would depend on what could be classified as abuse.

• And the one that someone else added—conventionally attractive: When I try I guess - from what others tell me - but I'd say that is a pretty rare occurrence (Half pass?)

7.5/11(68%)... and two of those were by default.

To be honest I think the only thing that could possibly matter here is probably sex positivity because if you start walking around telling people sex is a horrible thing they are probably not going to listen to you very much. That being said - someone less sex positive could likely do wonderful activism work as long as they remained respectful to the parties they may disprove of.

The rest of the points seem to be focused on WHO YOU ARE which is something that no-one should have to try and to mould into some ideal just to be seen as more valid. It may make it HARDER to argue your case (which we shouldn't have to do in the first place I might add) however it certainly doesn't make it impossible.

[mayve]

• Neurotypical: Fail

No Physical Health Issues: Pass (as far as I know)

No Mental Health Issues: Fail.

Cisgendered: Pass.

Indifferent: Pass.

Between Twenty and Forty: Pass—21.

Sex-Positive: Pass (Indifferent actually)

Nonlibidoist: Fail.

Sexual Problems: Pass

No Abuse: Pass.

Conventionally attractive: Pass (from what I've heard)

8/11

[WhenSummersGone]

With the virginity thing, it seems like you can't win either way. Haven't had sex? How do you know you won't 'become' sexual when you try it? Have tried sex? Can't be asexual.

This is very true. Or they say you might be gay because you haven't had sex with the same sex/gender yet either. "You just didn't do it right" could be another response as well.

[Member54880]

I've heard of this, but I've also heard of the 'gold star' asexual being nonlibidoist, never had sex and hates sex. Can't win either way; if you're Unassailable by one of these standards, you won't be by the other! Kind of strange that sex-positivity is one of the critieria for one of them, while being highly sex-negative is one of the criteria for the other! *headdesk*

For this one, here's how I fare:

Neurotypical: Pass
No Physical Health Issues: Pass
No Mental Health Issues: Not diagnosed with anything, but I have suffered from codependency. I'm unsure if I pass or not.
Cisgendered: Pass
Indifferent: Fail; I'm sex-averse?
Between 20 and 40: Pass
Sex-positive: I don't know what counts, but I don't consider myself sex-positive; so I'll say I fail this one.
Nonlibidoist: Pass
No Sexual problems: Pass
No abuse: If it's any type of abuse, then I fail this one.
Conventionally Attractive: Unsure

Pass: 6
Unsure: 2
Fail: 3

Edited October 27, 2013 by Aqua-ace

[panda_bunny]

I'd rather not break it down, but i will say that I fail as an "unassailable asexual"

I think its probably true that we may choose a spokesperson for the community based on traits that society may be more accepting of, in order to help "prove" to non-asexuals that we are in fact not "broken."

I mean it makes sense that we might want to respond to those who claim that asexuals are the way they are due to past sexual abuse by pointing fingers at an asexual who did not experience sexual abuse and say "Hey look them they're an example of an asexual who had a perfect childhood, making your accusation false"

but of course this is indeed very problematic. I mean for one thing, even going through something as terrible as sexual abuse does not make someone "broken". It's traumatic and horrible, but the survivors are in no way "broken" and the experience does not invalidate the person's sexual identity.

Not possessing any of those traits in no way invalidates a person's sexual identity, and while its nice to have those asexuals that do have those traits around to speak and debunk common myths and misconceptions, we should still have representation for those who are not "unassailable asexuals" I think we need to keep the diversity we have as a community in mind as we try to educate people about our orientation.

[littleheartsofjoy]

I'm not unassailable. I'm not conventionally attractive at all, at most my body might be but not my face. I have experienced abuse as well. The others, give and take and I can't be bothered to answer them.

I have also heard of this concept, I think from a video of swankivy's actually. I get it but it's a little sad that there is a preferred kind of asexual for representation.

[Amedot]

• Neurotypical: Fail (I think?)

• No Physical Health Issues: Pass

No Mental Health Issues: Fail

Cisgendered: Pass.

Indifferent: Pass.

Between Twenty and Forty: Pass— I'm 21

Sex-Positive: I'm indifferent/sex positive= Pass

Nonlibidoist: Fail.

Sexual Problems: Pass.

No Abuse: Pass.

Conventionally attractive: Pass

So two or three fails.

But anyone who truly knows me knows that I'm asexual, even if they don't know of asexuality.

[Kagon]

Before I state my results - let me first state that I believe that the "unassailable asexual" ideal is crud. Our community is immensely diverse for starters, and people of all types and backgrounds should be seen and accepted for visibility or otherwise. Being honest about all of this for each person in the public eye doesn't diminish asexuality - it strengthens it in my opinion. Because asexuality isn't defined by any of those factors, and if we can show *why they don't matter* we end up in a stronger position than dancing around them.

That said, for funsies...

• Neurotypical: Pass, so far as I'm aware.
• No Physical Health Issues: HAHAHAHA, Fail. Though the only health issue that could even possibly relate to asexuality as an arguing point is PCOS, and LOTS of people with that aren't asexual.
• No Mental Health Issues: None that have ever been officially diagnosed. I've dealt with undiagnosed depression for more than half my life, but I've been stable for several years now. My primary doctor thinks I'm PTSD, but she's not a mental health professional and *can't* diagnose that - and the slice of my life that is affected by that is *so* small that I think she's wrong. Probably should claim a Fail here though, due to the slice of my life that *is* affected.
• Cisgendered: Never thought of it before coming to this site, and considered myself so by default. Now I'm wondering I'm genderless though - but I still have no real problems with being identified by my physical sex. Just the social expectations *others* seem to have around it. Give me half a point here, I guess.
• Indifferent: Fail.
• Between Twenty and Forty: Pass
• Sex-Positive: I'm sex positive for other people, but I myself am sex-repulsed. Fail.
• Nonlibidoist: Pass!
• Sexual Problems: So far as I know, Pass. But putting this and nonlibidoist together is kinda bizarre - as many nonlibidoists have so little interest they wouldn't ever know.
• No Abuse: While not technically "abuse" I do fail here
• Attractive: No clue. I'm certain I'm not a perfect 10. I know some others have considered me attractive, but they had motives so to speak. I guess I'll call myself average. Aside from being overweight.

Pass: 4

Unsure: 2

Fail: 5

[sanremi52890]

It's a matter of what can be used against you as an "excuse" for your asexuality... a reason that your own personal assessment of your sexual orientation isn't valid..... And It's a good way to illuminate all the reasons why asexuals can feel so frustrated when they try to be more widely accepted. I think the best way to use this concept is a way of pre-empting critism, i.e. being able to say "look, we have the data, some asexuals have autism, some don't, some were abused, some weren't..." etc. When someone comes along like "I know, I bet you guys were all abused in childhood and just repressed the memories!" it's like.... yeah we already talked about that....

But I think a better message overall is, why should we have to defend ourselves and what we feel to be our sexual orientation? I think that's really the heart of the matter.

David Jay is a great example of an "unassailable" asexual... Well I don't know about all the categories, but he is definitely conventionally attractive, and comes off as well-adjusted, grounded, and normal. No idea if that contributed to his success at asexual activism, though.

• Neurotypical: Pass.
• No Physical Health Issues: Pass.
• No Mental Health Issues: Pass.
• Cisgendered: Pass.
• Indifferent: Not sure what this means...
• Between Twenty and Forty: Pass, 23.
• Sex-Positive: Pass. Do what you want!
• Nonlibidoist: Fail... I think? E.g. I do masturbate.
• Sexual Problems: Pass, I think.
• No Abuse: Pass.
• Conventionally attractive: reasonably so.

Some other possible additions:

• Has tried sex (Pass).

[Guest member25959]

LOL this ought to be fun

• Neurotypical: Hell yeah... I'll check my privilege
• No Physical Health Issues: Oh lord, fail
• No Mental Health Issues: Miserable fail oh god help me
• Cisgendered: Failure
• Indifferent: Maybe?
• Between Twenty and Forty: HAH, 20
• Sex-Positive: ... damn, you caught me! Yep!
• Nonlibidoist: Yeah!
• Sexual Problems: What the... no!
• No Abuse: Does booze count? I mean no
• Conventionally attractive: 50/50
• Not a moron: F-

Result: 6/11 aka. "Get the fuck out Arca, we don't want you here"

[Waist of Thyme]

I pass at: no physical health issues, sex-positive, nonlibidoist, no abuse.

I fail at: neurotypical, no mental health issues, between 20 and 40 (almost there, though; I'm 19)

I don't understand: indifferent, sexual problems.

For indifferent: there's no context. Indifferent towards what?

For sexual problems: Does passing mean having sexual problems, or not having them? Judging by the rest of the criteria, I'd guess passing means not having them, but for everything else that passing means not having they put no or not in front of it (ex: no physical/mental health issues) whereas with this one they didn't, so I'm not 100% sure.

[Philip027]

WHY does it stop at age 40? Like, are there NO asexuals beyond 40? pfft.

The premise behind that is that "oh, you're past your 'prime' years and you're just getting older, it's only natural that your interest in sex is decreasing". Therefore, making a claimed case of asexuality "assailable"

[Aya22]

• Neurotypical: Fail, I'm on the spectrum, barely, but on

No Physical Health Issues: Fail, gene mutation

No Mental Health Issues: Fail, OCD

Cisgendered: Pass.

Indifferent: Pass.

Between Twenty and Forty: Fail,18

Sex-Positive: Pass, indifferent really

Nonlibidoist: Pass, I have no sex drive whatsoever

Sexual Problems: Pass, as far as I no

No Abuse: Pass

Conventionally attractive: Pass/Fail, it switches back and forth

[warrigan]

• Neurotypical: pass

No Physical Health Issues: pass

No Mental Health Issues: pass

Cisgendered: pass

Indifferent: sure. pass.

Between Twenty and Forty: fail

Sex-Positive: pass. go ahead, do what you want!

Nonlibidoist: fail

Sexual Problems: pass

No Abuse: pass

Conventionally attractive: eh. i'm not hideous, so...pass.

i'm intrigued by this idea...i just saw swankivy's videos about this last night. i feel this applies to all groups of people, like other queer groups, minorities, political parties, religious groups, etc. i'd be interested in other people's ideas for things like "the unassailable feminist", "the unassailable muslim", "the unassailable politician", etc., if anyone's feeling it!

[The B]

I'm tempted to join in just because.

• Neurotypical: I'm not on the autism spectrum, but I do have atypical neurology. FAIL
• No Physical Health Issues: FAIL
• No Mental Health Issues: FAIL
• Cisgendered: PASS
• Indifferent: PASS
• Between Twenty and Forty: PASS
• Sex-Positive: PASS
• Nonlibidoist: FAIL
• Sexual Problems: FAIL (in that I have none)
• No Abuse: FAIL
• Conventionally attractive: I'm gorgeous, but I'm gonna say FAIL, because the majority of the world doesn't agree...

4/11! Yay! Crazy, ugly, falling apart, abuse-surviving libidoists, unite!

[Captain Darkhorse]

Time to give it a run:

• Neurotypical: Pass
• No Physical Health Issues: I have a torn meniscus, but how does that relate to asexuality? It doesn't, and I'm healthy in every other aspect, so I'mma give myself a Pass
• No Mental Health Issues: Fail. Epic fail.
• Cisgendered: Pass.
• Indifferent: Fail.
• Between Twenty and Forty: Pass—23.
• Sex-Positive: Pass. I guess
• Nonlibidoist: Pass
• No Sexual Problems: Given some tests I had earlier this year, I think this is a Fail.
• No Abuse: Fail. Miserably.
• Conventionally attractive: from what I understand, Pass

7/11. Oops.