New perspective of science behind asexual nature......

[Member74140]

wha?? Are they talking about fish or people? That sounds more like fish.

[NotAllHere]

Or possibly frogs. Jurassic Park did get that fact right; some frogs can change genders if it is deemed needed.

Other than that.... Somebody had better find a really old person whose gender has magically transformed if they want to prove this. At what point are they supposed to start changing? At what point is this 'process' complete? Can it change back? Why does this supposedly happen and what purpose does it serve?

[chair jockey]

The oldest scientifically attested human being, Jeanne Calment of France, lived to age 131 or 132 (I forget which). Although she spent the last years of her life both deaf and blind, she did not transform into a man.

Actuaries talk about the difference between lifespan and life expectancy. Life expectancy is how long an overweight chainsmoker can expect to live, which could be as few as 35 years. Lifespan his how long a human body in perfect condition, in a person with perfectly healthful habits in a perfectly healthful environment, can expect to live before it permanently fails because of aging. The human lifespan is estimated at 120 years. Calment exceeded that by more than a decade without morphing into a man. Which means that we have a real-life, well-documented example of a woman who exceeded her normal biological expiry date and remained female.

For that reason, the actual evidence contradicts the views of the author described in the OP. I don't even need evidence of a woman morphing into a man in old age, because Calment would be an example that it's not universal.

[Lenika]

This guy portrays himself as a surgeon who has gained all his information from his long years of practice. From the number of google references that come up, he's the best self-advertiser in the world. He's not a scientist and there's no point in reading what he says.

I'm gonna have to go with This^ on this topic.

[surgeongirl]

asexuality is natural in world of friends

asexuality is natural in world of friends

[PiF]

In the old days such as newtons, scientists did so under the age of discovery

These days scientists will say anything to get funding, a research grant or as in this doctors case.... To sell a book.

They be the boogie monsters.

[mausgrau]

Oh. Sounds perfectly cromulent. But then again, I like to take my ideas about “scientific fact” from fortune cookies, too.

[I'd rather be in band.]

It's an interesting theory, but it sounds like something that you would read in a science fiction novel. I would never personally subscribe to this theory because it isn't enforced by enough evidence for me. All of the evidence is, in fact, insufficient and does not support this conclusion. This man may be a surgeon, but I do not think that he thought this theory through enough.

[surgeongirl]

man is bor with the curse of not knowing himself

[surgeongirl]

There has been wise and wiser people from time to time. They give a different meaning to everything that was obvious. They played with the truth for their own gains.The wise people still rule the world . There are plenty in each field . they have not changed the world for better. Lets try to see the things as they are. Let us take pride in being not so wise for a while .

Being foolish by taking pseudoscience seriously is nothing to take pride in.

Everything is in the mind science, pseudoscience....... there is no such classification as such.

[Coolwhoami]

I am confused as heck and I cannot really parse what position is being put forward here anymore. However, some things to point out that have been said throughout this mess:

Y chromosomes are indeed quite a bit shorter than X chromosomes (~100 million base pairs less), and less genes (200 vs 2000 or so). However, this does not mean someone "lacks" genetic information by having it: otherwise, females could be said to lack the information a Y chromosome has alone.

Given that gender and sex are somewhat defined independently, scientists have not "missed" such a definition. Which genes someone has is strongly indicative of the sexual organs they will possess (though there are many people for which this is not the case due to all sorts of reasons). What we define as male and female makes reference specifically to these organs (females posses the larger gametes, and thus for humans, those with ovaries are female). This is strongly correlated with having XX chromosomes on the basis that they usually lead to having ovaries, but as I mentioned, not always. Being male or female has nothing to do with being in different "stages" of a developmental process. By default, an embryo will develop female sexual organs unless TDF (also called SRY protein) is introduced during development of these organs, which is produced by having a gene that produces SRY protein (which is found on the Y chromosome).

I have no idea what exactly the author of the book in the OP is trying to say, what it is based upon, or what this in turn has to do with asexuality, short of some weak connection between people being both genders (according to this author) and thus some implications upon sexual orientation in general.

[surgeongirl]

By these principles Maybe if I live long enough I will physicaly convert to canine, after all we are all animals right? Species is just a variation of the same physical material, wich seems to be what this fellow is talking about.

If a female converts into a male and visa versa why not a human in to a canine? Or a fish for that matter.

That being said, I highly doubt this 'dr' Fulzele.

doubt??

[SorryNotSorry]

I wonder why men aren't just tiny hangers-on, like male black widow spiders.

[poisonrose]

I'm no brilliant scientist but I do know that (most) men have xy chromosome and women have xx and to me that difference is enough to mean that even though men and women may be very similar on a genetic and physical level they are not the same because of that one very fundamental difference. As I said I'm not a scientist.

[whitesphere]

Genetically, men and women have the obvious chromosome difference. A biological male CANNOT get pregnant and therefore cannot carry a fetus to term. Nor can a biological female produce semen to impregnate another biological female.

Now, beyond that very specific definition, we get into murky waters. There is some truth to the fact that, as women age, their bodies produce less of the female specific hormones, and as men age, their bodies produce less of the male specific hormones.

This is on top of something far murkier still --- gender identity. This is mostly socially defined (the extent to which it's biologically defined is something we really don't know), with behaviors and traits attributed to men or to women. A lot of these vary very significantly between individuals, since we are all different people.

So there is a huge amount of potential variability between genders, and even ways a single individual can change his/her gender (to a point), but none of this has anything to do with asexuality per se, except that sexuality is seen as a given for most men and now more and more for women is seen as empowering and liberating.

So sexuality itself is tied into social gender identities as well.

But I don't see how men and women can biologically change genders to the degree I mentioned in my first paragraph, at least using today's technology. Everything else is up for grabs, though.

[Star Inkbright]

Or possibly frogs. Jurassic Park did get that fact right; some frogs can change genders if it is deemed needed.

Other than that.... Somebody had better find a really old person whose gender has magically transformed if they want to prove this. At what point are they supposed to start changing? At what point is this 'process' complete? Can it change back? Why does this supposedly happen and what purpose does it serve?

*sex

Changing gender isn't that unusual. . . it's changing SEX that we're discussing, I believe. :)

[surgeongirl]

happy new year to all the people who have read this . And considered the view point of this post . and to those also who did not agree. But not to those who have never read this . Because any way they are not going to read this. So what the point? May be those who have read this might convey to them ,,, happy new year. So in toto happy new year to alllllll.........

’Scientists have somehow missed definitions of gender in human beings,” states Dr. Makarand Fulzele. Insights gained from years of practice as surgeon makes him wonder if indeed we have overlooked facts staring in our face. Nature has a tendency to hide many secrets but at the same time it provides enough clues to unravel its mysteries. Dr. Fulzele picks up loose threads from life to stitch together the theory that man is an extension of woman in his new book, “Man Is the Extension of Woman: Know the Ultimate Truth about Yourself” (published by iUniverse). Dr. Fulzele’s book explores similarities between men and women against the backdrop of their genetic differences, physical variations, and emotional and intellectual dissimilarities. Dr. Fulzele who is a successful surgeon further explains in his book: The main hypothesis I discuss in this book is that, if a woman lives long enough she will be converted into a man physically. A similar thing can also be stated about man. It is wrong to categorize humankind into two genders as it implicates that they are extremely dissimilar and physically opposite to each other. I try to prove that man and woman are just two different stages of one developmental process. And physically they are very similar. The ideas presented may sound unconventional but Dr. Fulzele implores readers to consider his point of view with an open mind. “Your world will not change if you do not agree with me. But if you agree with me, how does it change your world? If more people agree with you and me, how does it change our world? The possibilities are limitless.”

[surgeongirl]

It appears that you've posted here solely to push this book, as though it were a religious tract. That really doesn't work well.

Is this still valid/?

[CNGB]

Uh . . . this has nothing to do with asexuality. Like, at all.

Anyway, Doctor Person's gonna have a Hell of a time proving this stuff when the oldest male in the world still has his penis and the oldest woman still has her vagina. He can't prove a damn thing unless he figures out the key to immortality first.

Besides that, he should learn that there's a difference between gender and sex. (Or is he actually talking about gender in all this?)

[surgeongirl]

I am confused now

[surgeongirl]

I am sometimes confused

[Skycaptain]

Right. The Y chromosome contains the generic material needed to create the male genitals

If there is any defect then the development trends towards a female rather than a male. Chromosomal errors confirm this. Any multiple sex chromosome with a Y present will produce testes, multiple X chromosomes with no Y produce a female

Any defects in in vitro testosterone synthesis result in ambiguous female genitals. Castrated males default towards the female, whereas a hysterectomised female doesn't develop masculine characteristics.

Gender dysphoria is a totally separate question. I don't know what causes this condition, but I do know that sufferers have normal chromosome patterns and normal endocrine patterns, so the reason must be within the brain somewhere.

[scarletlatitude]

Original poster, can you cite your sources? I'd like to have a look at this study for scientific reasons.

[Skycaptain]

scarletatitude

There is listed on Amazon the following book

Man is the Extension of Woman, by Dr Makaran Fulzele, Published by iUniverse, ISBN 978-1475949445, published 14.12.2012

Amazon describe the book as the author's second novel. Whether this is where the OP found the quote I don't know, but the timescale sounds about right.

[loomborn]

sorry OP do you eat grass regularly?

[surgeongirl]

id mubarak

[elainetta]

Translation for those who were lost, like me

ETA: She keeps digging this up after it dies. It's not like anyone will come along who thinks there's truth to the theory in the OP.

But I keep checking anyway. Curiosity and all.

[Sisky]

The Great WTF

I know this was just a moderator post and has nothing to do with the actual topic, but it's a very precise summary of my thoughts about this theory.