Never realised but MGTOW is actually a logical outflow of Ace.

[Arathorn]

http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/4537/meet-the-mens-rights-activists/

[SpadeofAces]

Meaning?

[ThorHera]

still at it Arathorn?

[Alphaprocess]

I don't think that's what the writer means at all. The sentence:

"One suspects this is a future that may have been dictated to them by mother nature long before they became in the vagaries of sexual politics, but there you go."

doesn't refer to them being asexual but to them being antisocial and unpleasant individuals.

MGTOWs have nothing to do with women. What has this to do with asexuality?

Otherwise, good article that doesn't deny that there are issues (e.g. boys underperforming in school) while not denying that a lot of MRAs are guys complaining about their divorce settlement.

[Guest]

They sound a lot more like celibates (and possibly with a mysogynistic streak) than asexual to me personally.

Also, wow. So much discussion going on about men and women. I wish people didn't forget about non-binary genders this often.

[SorryNotSorry]

I used to be a MGHOW until I realized most of them are bitter conservative wimps who are angry at the world.

[JDP]

Living alone, free from women, sounds pretty good to me. My best friend did that, never caved in, and still lives alone, happy as a clam.

I don't know why the article upsets anyone. Family law does need to be reformed in many states.

This comment made me laugh out loud. LOL.

I think I’ve finally figured out modern day feminism… There’s a lot of these girls and women who are completely unlikable cunts, who are shrill and annoying and evil. And they think that no one likes them because they’re women. But really no one likes them because they’re horrible fucking people.

[oneofthesun]

still at it Arathorn?

Indeed. You hate women, Arathorn - we get it.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

I used to be a MGHOW until I realized most of them are bitter conservative wimps who are angry at the world.

Yes. The first (and only) time I looked at some MGTOW blog - way back in 2007 - that was exactly what I noticed. And never looked at any again since then. :lol:

Funnily enough though, if you look at my life, functionally I'm probably pretty close to the description of a MGHOW. But it's something that's a natural consequence of simply being highly independent, borderline asexual, averse to any kind of heteronormative relationship mind games, as well as any kind of paradigm which treats people as means to ends in relationships.

Amazingly enough, when you do that, you actually meet awesome women. But of course, the mutual sense of independence means that the sorts of relationships you have with them aren't going to run to the usual scripts anyway. And that's why I don't identify with MGTOW. The entire referential framework is different: MGTOW are bitter at the system - but they still use it as a reference point to how they wish things were - they haven't really stepped right away from it, to the point where its existence is basically irrelevant to their relationship ideals (or lack thereof?).

[Sally]

: MGTOW are bitter at the system - but they still use it as a reference point to how they wish things were - they haven't really stepped right away from it, to the point where its existence is basically irrelevant to their relationship ideals (or lack thereof?).

The main thing they haven't done is try to alter/reform the system. It's much easier to just rant and whine about it and blame your unhappiness on (in this case) women.

[SorryNotSorry]

Funnily enough though, if you look at my life, functionally I'm probably pretty close to the description of a MGHOW. But it's something that's a natural consequence of simply being highly independent, borderline asexual, averse to any kind of heteronormative relationship mind games, as well as any kind of paradigm which treats people as means to ends in relationships.

Amazingly enough, when you do that, you actually meet awesome women.

Or at least pass muster with the women of heartlessbitches.com...

MGTOW are bitter at the system - but they still use it as a reference point to how they wish things were - they haven't really stepped right away from it, to the point where its existence is basically irrelevant to their relationship ideals (or lack thereof?).

You nailed it. The above bolded is essentially the reason why they brand themselves as MGTOW. They're all wishing they'll wake up one morning to a 1950s world (complete with Stepford wives and Jim Crow laws).

IMO it's kind of a disservice to us asexuals to be lumped in with such a bunch of curmudgeons as MGTOW.

[Kitty Spoon Train]

Funnily enough though, if you look at my life, functionally I'm probably pretty close to the description of a MGHOW. But it's something that's a natural consequence of simply being highly independent, borderline asexual, averse to any kind of heteronormative relationship mind games, as well as any kind of paradigm which treats people as means to ends in relationships.

Amazingly enough, when you do that, you actually meet awesome women.

Or at least pass muster with the women of heartlessbitches.com...

I have to admit...

Given the kind of relationship ideals I have, as well as being a bit genderless and getting along best with similar, a lot of the heteronormative dating issues do kinda evaporate with me. I wouldn't really know how to even play the "normal" heteronormative dating game any more, and I forget that not everyone has life goals that are as completely removed from that as mine. :lol:

That's probably part of the reason I couldn't relate when I first came across MGTOW blogs. It all seemed to be about bitterness regarding how very heteronormative "men's issues" went wrong for them, rather than more abstract and generalised relationship issues (which could happen with any combination of people), which are really all that's applicable to me. More or less.

[SpadeofAces]

Never even heard of MGTOW. What is this phenomenon?

[Member54880]

Never even heard of MGTOW. What is this phenomenon?

Men Going Their Own Way: Men who reject all romantic relationships with women. They may also reject sex too, but that isn't a requirement. Essentially, they're male separatists in some form.

[SorryNotSorry]

Never even heard of MGTOW. What is this phenomenon?

Men Going Their Own Way: Men who reject all romantic relationships with women. They may also reject sex too, but that isn't a requirement. Essentially, they're male separatists in some form.

Add to that they're chronic complainers with a massive chip on their shoulders and about as much personal ambition as a tree sloth.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Since MGTOW is often mischaracterized, I thought I would set the record straight and properly define it for those who inquired. The below is MGTOW according to: https://www.facebook.com/MenGoingTheirOwnWay/info?tab=page_info

• Short Description

  MGTOW (”Men Going Their Own Way”) is a way of life which refuses to defer to women in defining the worth of men. Instead, it focuses on positive male aspects, inviting men to go their own way in life.
• Long Description
  
  Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) refers to men committed to self-determination. Referring to oneself as a ”’Man Going His Own Way”’ (MGHOW) is a statement of self-ownership and a declaration that a man has the supreme right to decide what his goals in life will be as opposed to having his goals dictated by others who, in preference to self-determination, prescribe utility-based roles for males entailing servitude to women and society.
  
  + MGTOW Definition: +
  1. men going their own way - applies to all men who don't subscribe to the "traditional lifestyle" i.e. go to school, graduate college, find a girl, settle down, get married, have kids, etc/etc...singular is mghow - man going his own way.
  
  2. this term is often used in conjunction with men's rights terminology, as men's rights activists, aka [mra]s, often view the traditional lifestyle as setting them up for failure - w/ 1/2 marriages ending in divorce, approximately 3/4 of those divorces being initiated by the female, and 4/5 of those divorces resulting in child custody for the female and child support being provided by the male... a male who gets married today has a very high chance of being divorced by his wife and never seeing his kids while being forced to support them financially...
  
  3. A sort of motto that punctuates [MRA] statements...it should be of note that the phrase mgtow is not so much an anti-female acronym as it is geared more towards a general political, economic, and cultural system that fails both males and females...
  
  4. Used to describe men who live as [ghost]s, that is, work and try to avoid people/blend in (similar to robert deniro in taxi driver), [expat]riate males who choose to live abroad (e.g. johnny depp in France), or even male [john]s who choose to get all their sexual needs satisfied solely through prostitutes/escorts (what some divorced males wish they did, realizing they would have had more sex and ended up better off financially)...
  
  1. MGTOW is a male reaction to the excesses of feminism.
  
  2/3. Yesterday, my friend got arrested b/c he looked at his roommate funny. She wanted her boyfriend to sleep over, and wanted the entire apartment for herself that evening. He had an early interview the following morning and upset, told her that she was inconsiderate and selfish. Feeling guilty, she got revenge by calling the police and telling them that she felt "scared" around her roommate. Cops came and booked his ass. That's VAWA (violence against women act) for you. Just goes to show you, not only should you not marry women these days, you shouldn't even risk living with them . Get the hell out of the states, and go somewhere where you don't go to jail for looking at a girl "funny" - MGTOW.
  
  4. Yep, Doug is a MGHOW. He left the states, got a job in Thailand as a freelance web designer and spends all of his free time banging hookers. I don't think he's ever going to settle down or get married, man.
  
  
  + For the record: we support true equality (equal opportunity and treatment of all people, against special support or privileges (such as affirmative action and quotas which is systematic discrimination and against equal treatment), gender neutral laws (e.g. domestic violence support for everybody = abolish sexist feminist inspired laws like VAWA which ignore male victims), family court-reform for accountability and transparency, fair funding for female and male specific health issues such as prostate cancer compared to breast cancer, shared parenting, men and women are equal but different. +
  
  
  * "The one piece of MGTOW advice I've followed the closest is "live for yourself." Go your own way for your own reasons, for your own prosperity, and for your own happiness. What this translates to practically (for me) is that having a relationship should be peripheral and complementary to a life where you're already satisfied.
  
  In other words, you should go to the gym because YOU want to be healthy.
  
  You should dress respectably because YOU respect yourself.
  
  You should overcome shyness because YOU want to improve your social skills.
  
  If these things attract a stable woman to join you, so much the better. If they don't, you're still content because everything you accomplished was for the only person who mattered: yourself. However, if you do these things solely to attract a woman, and you fail...you are a failure.
  
  So by all means, I'd hope everyone would follow your advice about improving themselves. But doing so for the wrong reasons is following a dangerous road with sharp turns and steep drop-offs. The symbol of MGTOW is another path. It's not always an easy road, but the journey is far more fulfilling."
  
  
  * "There's no "one right way" to deal with women, and the screwed-up society that encourages them to indulge their baser instincts. But women and society must be dealt with.
  
  That's what MGTOW is all about. Each man has to walk his own path. But we ARE supportive of each other in that. I think that you need to be clear in your own mind what it is that YOU want. The degree to which we engage women is something that each of us chooses for ourselves, and it is necessary to accept the consequences of our choices.
  
  What do you want for your own life? What sacrifices are you willing to make in order to get it? If there are sacrifices you are NOT willing to make, what compromises to your chosen lifestyle will follow from that?"
  
  
  + Movement's Origins +
  
  Born out of the anti-feminist movement, MGTOW (”Men Going Their Own Way”) is a way of life which refuses to defer to women in defining the worth of men. Instead, it focuses on positive male aspects, inviting men to go their own way in life. This new movement is growing in numbers as more men become anti-feminists due to the social system in which they live.
  
  
  + MGTOW Manifesto +
  
  MEN GOING THEIR OWN WAY ver. 2.2
  
  The goal is to instill masculinity in men, femininity in women, and work toward limited government!
  
  By instilling masculinity in men, we make men self-reliant, proud, and independent.
  
  By instilling femininity in women, we make them nurturing, supporting, and responsible.
  
  By working for a limited government, we are working for freedom and justice.
  
  Women have other qualities is not interesting to men because we don't need them! Femininity will be the price women pay for enjoying masculinity in men!
  
  This is the aim of "Men Going Their Own Way".
  
  By holding this point of view, we are helping other men and, more importantly, we are helping boys grow up to become men.
  
  This goal is to take away everyone's "right" to vote on other people's affairs thus rendering it impossible for political organisms and ideologies to impose their personal will on everyone else. It is not about reinstalling patriarchy or revoking female voting rights or making socialism illegal. It might have this as a side effect - but not directly and not as a political ideology. Only the future will show what happens and by going our own way we are preparing men and boys for that future.
  
  It is important for men to have a practical approach to implementing our strategies.
  
  + PRIME STRATEGIES FOR ACHIEVING OUR GOALS +
  
  We have 3 main strategies:
  
  1. instilling masculinity in men by:
  - Demanding respect for men
  - Serving as good male role models
  - Living independent lives
  - Fighting chivalry
  
  2. instilling femininity in women:
  
  We will hold women equally accountable to men and ignore and shun those who refuse to take any responsibility for their own circumstances. Thus we induce women to take a complementary position with men instead of a competitive position as is now the case.
  
  Feminine qualities we want from women:
  - Nurturing
  - Supportive
  - Responsibility
  - Respectfulness
  - Honesty
  
  3. Limited government:
  
  In order to be independent of society, and live within it, while at the same time work for limiting governmental influence upon our daily lives, men will:
  
  - Go Their Own Way
  - Support other men
  - Legally reduce any taxpaying
  - Truthfully act out any duties in accordance with their conscience
  - Use any rights to the benefit of other men as well as themselves
  
  It is those 3 strategies that come together in one.
  
  MEN GOING THEIR OWN WAY
  
  
  
  + About the MGTOW logo:+
  
  + Every man supporting this idea is welcome to use the logo in this or similar contexts.
  
  What we do as activism or the way we behave personally are the main tactics.
  
  - Use of a logo which symbolizes the strategy.
  - Run one or many web-sites and fora that promotes this.
  - Run one or more web-sites which tells the truth about feminism.
  - Provide stickers, T-shirts, etc., with various statements such as "Chivalry is dead!".
  - Writing articles supporting our product.
  - Producing music promoting our product.
  - Hold international events and local meetings.
  - Establishing men's clubs.
  - Boycotting certain products.
  
  You will basically be alone doing this. There is no organization supporting you. You just go your own way and do what you believe is right. You are never obligated beyond your own conscience. True masculinity is also about accepting the rights of other men and not letting them down for any short term personal benefits.
  
  The men's movement does actually cover a much larger picture. By instilling masculinity in others, as well as yourself, you will actually be improving the lives of everyone, including women and children.

[Sally]

What a load of codwallop.

[Rwkropf]

Hi BLACE, I think you don't know what MGTOW is. It is turning away from socitial expectations and living your own life. MGTOW does not mean being an activist to some stupid idea of instilling gender values.

Before I knew of asexuality, I saw myself as a MGTOW without a need to state it. I could relate to many things that were stated by MGTOWs such as enjoying the single life. I do find it odd that many like to complain.

Why revive this thread?

[Guest]

I don't know why the article upsets anyone. Family law does need to be reformed in many states.

True story.

[Princess of Ruin]

The only thing I hate about them is that they make extreme generalizations about women in their blogs.

I agree with them that some things need to change, but they generally don't seem to actively do something about it.

[Zerο]

That necro though

lol

[Rwkropf]

The only thing I hate about them is that they make extreme generalizations about women in their blogs.

I agree with them that some things need to change, but they generally don't seem to actively do something about it.

The point is to walk away from the problems of society since many of these problems cant be fixed with activism. By walking away, they make it so less guys are going through marriage and divorce. If enough guys stop getting married, the government starts to get very concerned, just like what is happening with the Japanese Grass Eaters.