Stopping the Blame Game

[Guest]

Do I even want to know what the exercycle stands for? :lol:

[Philiarocks]

One can sustain a serious injury when one falls off a penny-farthing. (There's a metaphor about elitism here, but I'm not sure where).

[Corretto]

"...and what if you were going over judder-bars!" Ciao[w]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[JustanotherTobigirl]

The thing I don't like about the 'compromise' section... is that it makes it sound like asexuals are entitled to have sex with someone, if they love them. Some of us could never make ourselves have sex without feeling violated and disgusted. There are different levels of asexuality, I guess. This is the reason I plan on never dating anyone who is sexual. I just couldn't live a sexual life, and I don't want to feel like I'm somehow inclined to, like its my job or something.

[Bad_Mr_Tree]

Stopping the blame game is extremely important.

I've been in a relationship with my partner for eight years. Both of us from the beginning have insisted on and contributed to deep and broad communication. Each of us reads a lot, is curious and critical about the world. But even though that was the case the first time I managed to connect the dots in my aceyness only happened in the last week or so.

Before that time, there was blame. My partner supposed that I had some sort of "wall" in my mind, keeping us apart or preventing me from finding the same thing in our intercourse as she did. Nearly every time we talked about sex it tended to become focused on a deficit in one of us. My partner sometimes felt that she was a "sex crazed animal" because as other contributors have noted the society espoused position is that "men just want more sex than women". I never accused her of such things, but that didn't matter, society did. At other times the conversation centered on me not trying enough to overcome this problem (my like of sexual interest). I had internalized the belief that sex was a staircase everyone could and needed to climb to reach a higher level of intimacy. Now I know this isn't the case for many people, but there have been many years of my feeling like someone less than whole because my partner couldn't find the sexual nourishment she needs in me.

We are now armed with new knowledge and understanding but there are many ways of interacting that need to be unlearned. For example our most recent conversation she told me the most shocking thing for her was that I just didn't seem that invested in overcoming this problem. Still again, even with the new knowledge, the framing is still that it is a problem I should be investigating. I told her this only held water if one still considered asexuality to be a deficit that needed to be remedied, that I was open to exploring ways each of us could have our needs met and create greater intimacy. I used the analogy of ice cream. "If I don't like ice cream, why would I keep focusing my energies on trying to find a flavor when its the coldness and texture of it I'm just not that into".

Will this happen? I don't know. Blaming and internalizing blame are highly destructive. Since we moved away from the English speaking world our relationship has had additional pressures that have resulted in each of us taking actions that have undermined the astounding emotional intimacy we once had.

Ceasing to blame is the first step. Rebuilding intimacy is the next. But without a certain degree of intimacy any compromise would seem like paying admission to a concert you just aren't that interested in listening to.

Many times I feel that blame on a partner, for whatever the reason, is magnified when we are not successful in meeting the various other needs we have in our life. Both of us are unable to realize a lot of what we want now, we still have similar desires in what we want from life. Hopefully we can recharge ourselves and find new energy to realize our shared dreams, maybe the blame has taken its toll, and our immediate happiness is more important for our sanity than the hope of one in the future. Who knows...

...

this was kind of off topic, I apologize...it was also quite scattered... i'll get better I promise. :))

[Lydian]

The thing I don't like about the 'compromise' section... is that it makes it sound like asexuals are entitled to have sex with someone, if they love them. Some of us could never make ourselves have sex without feeling violated and disgusted. There are different levels of asexuality, I guess. This is the reason I plan on never dating anyone who is sexual. I just couldn't live a sexual life, and I don't want to feel like I'm somehow inclined to, like its my job or something.

I assure you it was never my intent to imply the (I assume you meant sexual here) is entitled to sex. Merely that they are not to be blamed for desiring it, since that's not something they can help. If the asexual in the relationship is comfortable with compromise, that and how far it goes is up to them. Should the asexual not be alright with compromise, which includes myself, then they should also not at all be blamed for this because as I said, their happiness is equally important. If you can't blame someone for needing sex to be happy, you can't blame someone for needing to NOT have sex. Their needs are JUST as important. If compromise work, it's nobody's fault and both people are entitled to move on without being blamed or blaming the other, so long as they're not doing so in a harmful manner such as saying "Have sex with me or else I'm going to leave" which would obviously be essentially blaming them for the relationship not working and pinning working things through entirely on that person.

Compromise means different things for different people. Nobody should go further than they are comfortable or else the purpose is kind of defeated since you're no longer happy. Sorry if part of my original post came across this way, if there was a specific section that made you feel that way, you can quote it and I can see about revising it so as to make myself more clear.

[BigMissSteak]

:(((((( There is a certain closeness that comes with having sex. My boyfriend is always so much more lovey dovey after we finish but we only do ever so often and I wish that he could be that way with me all the time, and not just after we fuck. Guilty feels.

[Akira Jumps]

I must admit, I've never felt the need to ever even have an 'intimate relationship' with someone - even if it was just boyfriend and girlfriend or otherwise without sex - but with an incredibly straight sister, the need to have sex seems strange to me. Because we've grown up together, we both respect our sexualities, or in my case my a-sexuality; but understanding what she means when she thinks someone is 'hot' or she wants a boyfriend is a hard for me to full wrap my mind around - at least for the why.

[Maven2014]

I saw a programme on TV a few months ago about how much online porn is part of teenagers' lives, and his it is creating expectations in the boys and girls lives about what is important in a relationship. Everything is circling around sex, how to get it and how much to have.

I was shocked - being in my 40s, my teenage years weren't sex-filled, and neither were my friends'. I grew up in an average family, went to a standard high school and went on to Uni. Life was not all about sex. Now, it seems very different. I don't really 'see' all the using sex to sell everything, because I'm not interested and am not a marketer's dream. But if you're a teenager - wow, it must be tough.

So, all this to say that I have no problem with sexual people wanting and needing sex as their form of intimacy in their relationships, as long as both parties consent. If someone is being forced, coerced or pressured, that is wrong,

But I worry for the younger generations - media and the internet seem to be creating warped reality and therefore warped expectations of what is acceptable.

[ayarose]

I think you explained the issue very well. It seems some people just have a very hard time accepting the fact that not everyone views the world the way they do. "I do/don't like this how can you possibly not enjoy/enjoy it???"

[Sakurastar]

There is nothing more I can add to the OP. Brillant.

[WoofPuppy]

I am married to a very sexual woman. We both wanted a family so we had a sexual relationship until we had our family. After that, I didn't see the need for sex, and not being a sexual person, it didn't occur to me that she would want sex very often. I knew she would want it and I was willing to oblige, after all husbands do that, but we didn't have sex before we married and we didn't really discuss it beforehand, we just assumed the other would be on the same plane as ourselves. So after the family came she still wanted sex all the time. I felt required to do it even though I didn't want to. It was becoming a big big issue.

The problem came down to communication and societal expectations. Society expects me, as a man, to want sex, and to want it frequently. I expected myself to want it. I literally tricked myself into thinking I wanted it, just thinking I had a low sex drive, that when I got married it would change. It didn't. I blamed myself for being inadequate..I never heard of asexuality or people not wanting sex...I'd heard of impotency, but those people still wanted sex, they just physically couldn't. So I never communicated to my wife about my lack of sex drive before we married. That wasn't fair to either of us, but honestly, I didn't know any better. When it started to be a problem after the baby was born and she wanted sex again, I tried to be the husband she wanted, but I couldn't because that's not who I am. She complained at me a lot for not initiating sex, ever, not wanting her, and I felt so terrible. She blamed me for her lack of confidence and insecurity because she must be unattractive and unloved if her husband won't make love to her. I was riddled with guilt. I assured her that was not the case, I just never thought about sex, ever, not with her or anyone, so how could I initiate something I never thought about? I offered on many occasions to 'satisfy' her without intercourse, but she refused, saying that wasn't what she wanted, it had to be mutual, and it had to be all out sex. So I did my best, which wasn't good enough. For years this caused tension and hurt feelings. I can't blame her for feeling the way she did. I couldn't understand why she wouldn't let me satisfy her needs in other ways other than full blown sex, because an orgasm is an orgasm, right? And why did it matter to her that I have an orgasm when I repeatedly told her I didn't need or want one? Things weren't going well and I was the bad guy.

Just a few days ago I heard about AVEN and realised I was not a freak for not wanting to have sex or be touched back during intimate contact. I read and learned and got the confidence to write my wife a letter about how much I loved her, where I was (a)sexually, and where I could see our intimate life going if she would just be more open about it. It was a scary thing to do but at the same time very relieving. The response wasn't exactly what I hoped but it was overall positive and she was receptive to my ideas. In the last 2 days since we resolved things it's been a lot happier around here. We're getting along better and being more affectionate. The blame game is over.

[Akira Jumps]

Explaining that sex and love are so entirely different from each other to me is hard for friends and family to understand. Every time I try to explain, "No, I don't get 'horny' when I see a cute guy," and "No, I don't get 'horny' when I see a cute girl" but they don't understand. "How can you not?!" "That must be hard!!" "But he's/she's so hot!!"

It's really not. I try not to take offense at it, but hearing 'weird' and 'strange' and 'no' all the time takes a toll. It wasn't until a couple of months ago that I finally managed to convince someone close to me that, yes, I am ASEXUAL and no, I don't get 'horny.'

I think a huge part of being without a sexual drive is having someone who you can have a non-sexual relationship with who understands and respects you. They won't urge you to go on dates, or get a boyfriend/girlfriend.

Blaming someone because they are or are not a sexual being is kind of ridiculous. If you don't have it, you don't. If you do, you do. There shouldn't be a problem either way.

[whitesphere]

I think it goes without saying that an asexual will have an incredibly hard time dating a sexual person who has a high sex drive, unless the asexual is completely OK with the sexual person not being sexually monogamous.

For a good relationship to work, both partners need their core needs met. But, I agree it's important to find a workable compromise that satisfies both parties. I don't think it's reasonable to say the asexual should have sex whenever the sexual partner wants it. But it's just as unreasonable as reversing that. For a sexual person, sex is the most important form of emotional closeness in the world. For asexuals, it clearly is not.

I also believe if either partner is NOT respecting the other's boundaries, it's time to discuss the problem and if the problem continues, reassess if the relationship is good for both parties. Nobody, sexual or asexual should ever not be respected by their partner.

[BlushCW]

I just wanted to thank the OP of this threat for their post. This post is pretty much EXACTLY what I needed to see a few weeks ago, when I was in a difficult place and feeling unsure in a slight game changer of my marriage.

Thanks to this insight, I was able to get out of the blaming game and realize that my sexual husband's feelings were as much to be regarded as my own, and to see it from his point of view. It gave me the specifics I needed to communicate with him and properly sort our thoughts and feelings out on the table.

We are both in a MUCH more agreeable and happier place for it! He is (as always) respectful of my boundaries and happiness, and I am now more understanding and open to showing certain forms of compromise (not sex, mind you - he himself has firmly stated he would never want me to do that without 100% consent!) to show that he too is respected and considered in our marriage. So thank you!! ^_^

[Lydian]

I just wanted to thank the OP of this threat for their post. This post is pretty much EXACTLY what I needed to see a few weeks ago, when I was in a difficult place and feeling unsure in a slight game changer of my marriage.

Thanks to this insight, I was able to get out of the blaming game and realize that my sexual husband's feelings were as much to be regarded as my own, and to see it from his point of view. It gave me the specifics I needed to communicate with him and properly sort our thoughts and feelings out on the table.

We are both in a MUCH more agreeable and happier place for it! He is (as always) respectful of my boundaries and happiness, and I am now more understanding and open to showing certain forms of compromise (not sex, mind you - he himself has firmly stated he would never want me to do that without 100% consent!) to show that he too is respected and considered in our marriage. So thank you!! ^_^

You know when I made this post I expected maybe ten people to read it and figured it'd be ok if it helped at least one person a little. It makes me really happy to hear from people who read this post since it was first pinned and genuinely feel it helped them. I never expected this many people to read it, but I'm happy for you and your husband. All the best to you and what sounds like a very loving relationship!

[Allotasm]

Oh phew.

This has been my number one concern in my lurkfest this last week or so, the amount of conversation around sex requirements and it really makes me concerned for how that can play out IRL.

Like it's totally normal and natural to have bitterness and sadness around realizing you're not wanted by the person you're with, I'm just real concerned when the answer is a contract of sex requirements. Is that weird? I dunno, "no" should have a place in any sexual relationship, always.

No is always ok. Honestly so is "this isn't meeting my needs, I need to do xyz to meet them". Just... I dunno. This is a good thread.

[DarkNekoJin]

I ran into an individual once who wished to have me as his sex craved girlfriend. He wouldn't listen to my own desires or lack there of and failed to recognize he was basically hurting me emotionally with how I felt about myself. When I gave him the chance to try working with me and explaining why I'm not sexual, and if we were together would he want that sex or would he be comfortable without it. At first he claimed he was ok without it, but later began to blame me for making him feel less then he was by not giving him what he needed. I told him I couldn't, and despite informing him many times that I didn't and couldn't, he begun to treat it like I wasn't sure what my real orientation was and insisted it was because I'm a virgin. I finally moved on after he went to my parents to beg them to convince me I wasn't asexual and that I needed to be with him.

I'm not against those who are sexual, but more so then not I'd look for an asexual partner or a really low sex drive of another for sure. I'm not looking to be dictated for what I want or don't want.

[Kuromi Akumura]

I guess my point is if you knew you were asexual before you met your husband then isn't it his right to know that while dating? If my wife had told me she was asexual when we first met I would have said I am not and moved on to someone else.

My wife never just laid on the bed and told me to stick it in and get it over with. She had orgasms, I don't think a woman that despises sex can do that.

Sex is a natural thing between two people and is important more so for men then women and that's what most of the asexual's on this board who are mostly women, don't or won't understand .

Lady Girl if you don't think sex is that important to a male in a marriage, then why do so many men look outside their marriage for it..

you are very~ ignorant and naive but hey ignorance is bliss!!!

no most aces on here are women because society is kinder to women who don't want s*x than men who don't want s*x. Men are told they have to be perverts pretty much and usually will be forced into sexual behavior by peer pressure if they are Asexual.

Gender does not determine whether you find s*x important or not my companion is a hetro male and does not think it is important in a relationship and he even told me he is happier being in a genuine relationship with it.

Also cheating because you aren't getting enough s*x in a marriage is a shitty excuse. Men seek it so much because societies nurture. Some men do not find it important and you gotta accept that.

[Just looking around]

He feels deprived of affection, and sexual release. If he were more consistently lovey-dovey, would you (honestly) have sex with him more often?

:(((((( There is a certain closeness that comes with having sex. My boyfriend is always so much more lovey dovey after we finish but we only do ever so often and I wish that he could be that way with me all the time, and not just after we fuck. Guilty feels.

[Just looking around]

Great post. Update? How's it going now?

I am married to a very sexual woman. We both wanted a family so we had a sexual relationship until we had our family. After that, I didn't see the need for sex, and not being a sexual person, it didn't occur to me that she would want sex very often. I knew she would want it and I was willing to oblige, after all husbands do that, but we didn't have sex before we married and we didn't really discuss it beforehand, we just assumed the other would be on the same plane as ourselves. So after the family came she still wanted sex all the time. I felt required to do it even though I didn't want to. It was becoming a big big issue.

The problem came down to communication and societal expectations. Society expects me, as a man, to want sex, and to want it frequently. I expected myself to want it. I literally tricked myself into thinking I wanted it, just thinking I had a low sex drive, that when I got married it would change. It didn't. I blamed myself for being inadequate..I never heard of asexuality or people not wanting sex...I'd heard of impotency, but those people still wanted sex, they just physically couldn't. So I never communicated to my wife about my lack of sex drive before we married. That wasn't fair to either of us, but honestly, I didn't know any better. When it started to be a problem after the baby was born and she wanted sex again, I tried to be the husband she wanted, but I couldn't because that's not who I am. She complained at me a lot for not initiating sex, ever, not wanting her, and I felt so terrible. She blamed me for her lack of confidence and insecurity because she must be unattractive and unloved if her husband won't make love to her. I was riddled with guilt. I assured her that was not the case, I just never thought about sex, ever, not with her or anyone, so how could I initiate something I never thought about? I offered on many occasions to 'satisfy' her without intercourse, but she refused, saying that wasn't what she wanted, it had to be mutual, and it had to be all out sex. So I did my best, which wasn't good enough. For years this caused tension and hurt feelings. I can't blame her for feeling the way she did. I couldn't understand why she wouldn't let me satisfy her needs in other ways other than full blown sex, because an orgasm is an orgasm, right? And why did it matter to her that I have an orgasm when I repeatedly told her I didn't need or want one? Things weren't going well and I was the bad guy.

Just a few days ago I heard about AVEN and realised I was not a freak for not wanting to have sex or be touched back during intimate contact. I read and learned and got the confidence to write my wife a letter about how much I loved her, where I was (a)sexually, and where I could see our intimate life going if she would just be more open about it. It was a scary thing to do but at the same time very relieving. The response wasn't exactly what I hoped but it was overall positive and she was receptive to my ideas. In the last 2 days since we resolved things it's been a lot happier around here. We're getting along better and being more affectionate. The blame game is over.

[SwirlyKitten]

Or we can just all date within our own orientation. I know aces are a minority and such but we're still there and I'm sure we can find each other.

[Lydian]

Or we can just all date within our own orientation. I know aces are a minority and such but we're still there and I'm sure we can find each other.

Or sometimes mixed relationships work fine for people and just because you find another asexual person doesn't mean you'll be compatible. You don't always choose who you fall for and if you can make it work without it damaging either person, there's no reason not to bother trying.

The last asexual person I met asked me to be in a relationship with him (Not even ask me on a date, just straight up relationship) purely on the basis of us both being asexual. He didn't even ask my name first, he just heard I was ace from an overheard conversation with someone else. The other asexual people I know simply aren't people I'm interested in dating. We CAN find each other, but if we can find another ace we're compatible with that's great, but it doesn't mean we should ignore people who choose to date non-ace people and who can make it work for them. Don't forget that within the very small ace community, there's an even smaller number of people you'll actually want to date.

[SwirlyKitten]

Or we can just all date within our own orientation. I know aces are a minority and such but we're still there and I'm sure we can find each other.

Or sometimes mixed relationships work fine for people and just because you find another asexual person doesn't mean you'll be compatible. You don't always choose who you fall for and if you can make it work without it damaging either person, there's no reason not to bother trying.

The last asexual person I met asked me to be in a relationship with him (Not even ask me on a date, just straight up relationship) purely on the basis of us both being asexual. He didn't even ask my name first, he just heard I was ace from an overheard conversation with someone else. The other asexual people I know simply aren't people I'm interested in dating. We CAN find each other, but if we can find another ace we're compatible with that's great, but it doesn't mean we should ignore people who choose to date non-ace people and who can make it work for them. Don't forget that within the very small ace community, there's an even smaller number of people you'll actually want to date.

I was merely suggesting a quite easy way out. You can date anyone if you want, but I know what I want.

[Lydian]

Or we can just all date within our own orientation. I know aces are a minority and such but we're still there and I'm sure we can find each other.

Or sometimes mixed relationships work fine for people and just because you find another asexual person doesn't mean you'll be compatible. You don't always choose who you fall for and if you can make it work without it damaging either person, there's no reason not to bother trying.

The last asexual person I met asked me to be in a relationship with him (Not even ask me on a date, just straight up relationship) purely on the basis of us both being asexual. He didn't even ask my name first, he just heard I was ace from an overheard conversation with someone else. The other asexual people I know simply aren't people I'm interested in dating. We CAN find each other, but if we can find another ace we're compatible with that's great, but it doesn't mean we should ignore people who choose to date non-ace people and who can make it work for them. Don't forget that within the very small ace community, there's an even smaller number of people you'll actually want to date.

I was merely suggesting a quite easy way out. You can date anyone if you want, but I know what I want.

"...but I know what I want." And that's great for you, so please don't assume it's right for everybody else. I'd hardly call finding someone within 1% of the population you'd be interested in 'easy'. Just leave it up to the people involved to know what they want in life, 'kay?

[SwirlyKitten]

Or we can just all date within our own orientation. I know aces are a minority and such but we're still there and I'm sure we can find each other.

Or sometimes mixed relationships work fine for people and just because you find another asexual person doesn't mean you'll be compatible. You don't always choose who you fall for and if you can make it work without it damaging either person, there's no reason not to bother trying.

The last asexual person I met asked me to be in a relationship with him (Not even ask me on a date, just straight up relationship) purely on the basis of us both being asexual. He didn't even ask my name first, he just heard I was ace from an overheard conversation with someone else. The other asexual people I know simply aren't people I'm interested in dating. We CAN find each other, but if we can find another ace we're compatible with that's great, but it doesn't mean we should ignore people who choose to date non-ace people and who can make it work for them. Don't forget that within the very small ace community, there's an even smaller number of people you'll actually want to date.

I was merely suggesting a quite easy way out. You can date anyone if you want, but I know what I want.

"...but I know what I want." And that's great for you, so please don't assume it's right for everybody else. I'd hardly call finding someone within 1% of the population you'd be interested in 'easy'. Just leave it up to the people involved to know what they want in life, 'kay?

You're taking a random person's >suggestion< way too personally...

[The Terrible Travis]

*whistles nervously*

[Lydian]

Or we can just all date within our own orientation. I know aces are a minority and such but we're still there and I'm sure we can find each other.

Or sometimes mixed relationships work fine for people and just because you find another asexual person doesn't mean you'll be compatible. You don't always choose who you fall for and if you can make it work without it damaging either person, there's no reason not to bother trying.

The last asexual person I met asked me to be in a relationship with him (Not even ask me on a date, just straight up relationship) purely on the basis of us both being asexual. He didn't even ask my name first, he just heard I was ace from an overheard conversation with someone else. The other asexual people I know simply aren't people I'm interested in dating. We CAN find each other, but if we can find another ace we're compatible with that's great, but it doesn't mean we should ignore people who choose to date non-ace people and who can make it work for them. Don't forget that within the very small ace community, there's an even smaller number of people you'll actually want to date.

I was merely suggesting a quite easy way out. You can date anyone if you want, but I know what I want.

"...but I know what I want." And that's great for you, so please don't assume it's right for everybody else. I'd hardly call finding someone within 1% of the population you'd be interested in 'easy'. Just leave it up to the people involved to know what they want in life, 'kay?

You're taking a random person's >suggestion< way too personally...

I'm only pointing out why your suggestion was both naive and not really needed on a thread for people who have clearly chosen otherwise. It's hardly personal.

[Sally]

You two are definitely playing the blame game.

[Calamity Jim]

This is why I don't date