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Lydian

Stopping the Blame Game

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The Great WTF

*sigh* Every few months we get another one of these. Rocko, can you please not take your personal drama out on an entire community and blame your wife's choices on every woman here? Your experiences and desires are not universal and it would do you well to keep that in mind.

Some people don't know about asexuality until it's too late and people like you who perpetuate this stereotype that there are default sexual needs based on sex and that women inherently do not want as much sex as men do not make it any easier for people to learn about themselves or realize that there is something unique about their lack of desire. No, it was not fair for your wife to lie to you but it is what many women are taught to do. I've lost count of the women I've had in here who say they were taught at a young age that women inherently don't like sex as much, that you just have to play along and deal with your husband's desires, that they were told they would grow to like it if they played along enough. How are they supposed to figure out they're asexual when they're brought up with these stereotypes and backwards ideas?

I suggest you spend some time in the Sexual Partners and Allies forum. There are people like you there, dealing with problems like yours, who can give advice and support with you clearly need. You're not going to get any useful answers by hijacking a thread to berate every asexual woman in a mixed marriage for your wife's mistakes.

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Rocko

I will go over to there, Hopefully there will be some asexual' women that can answer some of my questions, because it didn't happen on this thread..

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Einy

Sex is a natural thing between two people and is important more so for men then women and that's what most of the asexual's on this board who are mostly women, don't or won't understand .

I am a sexual woman and no, sex isn't more important to men than women, it's all individual.

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Sally
Rocko, on 18 Jun 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

I will go over to there, Hopefully there will be some asexual' women that can answer some of my questions, because it didn't happen on this thread..

We've answered, but you just don't like our answers. You will probably find the same answers on the Partners and Allies thread, and unless you listen with your mind instead of your anger, you won't like those either.

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Lady Girl

I guess my point is if you knew you were asexual before you met your husband then isn't it his right to know that while dating? If my wife had told me she was asexual when we first met I would have said I am not and moved on to someone else.

My wife never just laid on the bed and told me to stick it in and get it over with. She had orgasms, I don't think a woman that despises sex can do that.

Sex is a natural thing between two people and is important more so for men then women and that's what most of the asexual's on this board who are mostly women, don't or won't understand .

Lady Girl if you don't think sex is that important to a male in a marriage, then why do so many men look outside their marriage for it..

My husband is asexual...I'm not. Being able to have orgasms doesn't make you sexual...asexual people are able to be aroused and have sex, that isn't really the point.

I don't think sex is more important to men than it is to women. I agonized over our situation plenty.

The point of my posts was to explain that in really long term relationships where one person is asexual and didn't really know it, they weren't necessarily lying (they may have been trying to be what they thought was expected of them, or continued because they were afraid of losing their partner, etc.), and it doesn't do any good to blame them for who they are.

I understand that you're not happy...that's why I mentioned the options available to anyone who is in an unhappy marriage.

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Ravako

Rocko, I'm sorry that your understanding about how successful and happy every male's romantic relationships are is based on how much sex they get from their woman. I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting sex in a relationship, but I am sorry that you are too closed-minded to think that it may not be the most important thing to every sexual male.

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Elocent

This is so true <3

Frustrating and painful as hell more often than not, but true.

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Lydian

I love coming back to find angry sexuals taking over what was supposed to be a positive thread. Or angry anyone. It's charming, really.

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Serran

*sigh* Every few months we get another one of these. Rocko, can you please not take your personal drama out on an entire community and blame your wife's choices on every woman here? Your experiences and desires are not universal and it would do you well to keep that in mind.

Some people don't know about asexuality until it's too late and people like you who perpetuate this stereotype that there are default sexual needs based on sex and that women inherently do not want as much sex as men do not make it any easier for people to learn about themselves or realize that there is something unique about their lack of desire. No, it was not fair for your wife to lie to you but it is what many women are taught to do. I've lost count of the women I've had in here who say they were taught at a young age that women inherently don't like sex as much, that you just have to play along and deal with your husband's desires, that they were told they would grow to like it if they played along enough. How are they supposed to figure out they're asexual when they're brought up with these stereotypes and backwards ideas?

I suggest you spend some time in the Sexual Partners and Allies forum. There are people like you there, dealing with problems like yours, who can give advice and support with you clearly need. You're not going to get any useful answers by hijacking a thread to berate every asexual woman in a mixed marriage for your wife's mistakes.

Yep. That was a big part of why I had no idea about asexuality. My mom and my grandmother told me "No woman likes sex, we just do it for men and if you want a man, give it up or lose him to someone that will". Of course, that isn't true, asexual men have just as much trouble in mixed relationships as asexual women because WOMEN LIKE SEX AND WANT IT. And, on top of that horrible stereotype, we get told "you'll grow into it" "you just haven't hit your prime" "you just need to tell him what you like" "you just need to masturbate more and find out what you like" "you're just repressing it, accept that sex is OK and enjoy it!" etc etc ... never "Oh, you think you're not that interested? Well, you could be asexual, or just have a naturally low libido". When you're bombarded with everything except that maybe some people just don't like or want sex, you can easily not even think of it as an option. I never considered it as an option, because humans have sex in adult relationships, that was a given in my mind because that is what I was taught. So, I plowed on with it and went through everything I could think of trying to find the thing that would make it more tolerable, or enjoyable, because maybe I did JUST need to find what I liked...

Everyone always assumes an asexual knows they are asexual from birth or something. We don't. Sometimes we don't discover that until we're well into adulthood. When people are confused, it's natural to ask friends/family for advice. And the advice given to someone who doesn't seem to care about sex is often going to be bad advice. Confusion is not lying.

Now, I do think an asexual should tell someone they are dating, if they know. Of course. But, it's really easy to not know. Then you can't really tell.

As for women not wanting sex ha, if only. Asexual men wouldn't have any issues if that were the case. Women often seek sex outside of marriage as well as men. It's just more socially acceptable for a man to do it.

And having an orgasm does not mean you don't hate what is being done to you. R TW

Women who are experiencing rape can orgasm.

That MYTH is so annoying. Getting "wet" doesn't mean you are enjoying it. Having an orgasm doesn't mean you want it. Bodies respond to stimuli.

In response to why stop having sex - because sometimes peoples tolerances for things they dislike change. Imagine your partner LOVES to go shopping every weekend. They want you to go with them. You hate shopping. But, you love your partner, so you agree to go shopping with them. And you go, every weekend. But, 5 years later, you are so tired of shopping on the weekends and you really want to do anything else with that time, so you tell your partner "not this weekend honey".. then as time goes on, you skip more and more weekends, because you just can't stand the thought of shopping anymore. Or, say it was watching Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith every Saturday. You'd get pretty bored watching that same movie over and over and over JUST to make your partner happy, when you don't even like Star Wars. Sex, to me, is like watching comedies with my partner. I can do it, but if it's too often, I am going to become annoyed and cranky and not want to anymore. And I can't promise it's something I will always be able to do.

And of course, even sexuals can be touch averse (not wanting to kiss/cuddle). My cousin is sexual and doesn't even let his wife give him massages. Asexual doesn't mean no physical affection, sexual doesn't mean you love physical affection. Individuals are individuals, not "your orientation defines you".

Everyone who is unhappy in their relationships, including marriages, are free to leave them. Divorce exists. Not all sexuals are unhappy with their asexual partners though, even the ones that were confused about their sexuality to start - my partner didn't learn about asexuality until five years into the relationship (when I found out myself) and sure he was disappointed, but we've worked it out and three years later he asked me to marry him. So. Stereotyping sexual males or mixed relationships isn't very appropriate. Every relationship is unique.

BLAMING one person or the other in a relationship that is a PARTNERSHIP and expecting them to do all the changing, is not a healthy way to go about anything. Differences are awful and can be very painful. This includes sexual mismatch, or even mismatched religions. What is a deal breaker and what is not, varies by the people in the relationship. And it's up to BOTH parties in any relationship to try to either work it out, or decide it's not working at all. All blame does is feed anger and resentment, not solve anything.

My partner and I accepted we are just different, neither wrong. :)

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NotAllHere

Um... Everything Serran Says. That is all.

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Mysticus Insanus

I guess my point is if you knew you were asexual before you met your husband then isn't it his right to know that while dating?

I actually agree with this statement (and I'm asexual). If you know, then it's your duty to tell it to your partner (and I'd suggest to do so at the first date or earlier).

However, that's one hell of a big if (which is why I typographically stressed it in the quote, seeing as I'm all subtle and shit :P). People just don't always know either their orientation or their limits/boundaries/dealbreakers in relationships before getting there. In a hypothetical perfect world, yeah, maybe that's something we'd all be aware of from birth - but in the actual real world we live in, expecting this of anyone is a surefire way to massive disappointment and resentment.

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Ravako

I guess my point is if you knew you were asexual before you met your husband then isn't it his right to know that while dating?

I actually agree with this statement (and I'm asexual). If you know, then it's your duty to tell it to your partner (and I'd suggest to do so at the first date or earlier).

However, that's one hell of a big if (which is why I typographically stressed it in the quote, seeing as I'm all subtle and shit :P). People just don't always know either their orientation or their limits/boundaries/dealbreakers in relationships before getting there. In a hypothetical perfect world, yeah, maybe that's something we'd all be aware of from birth - but in the actual real world we live in, expecting this of anyone is a surefire way to massive disappointment and resentment.

Yeah. I knew I had no interest in sex when I was young, but I had no idea it was a sexual orientation until I was like four or five years deep into a relationship. I spent those years trying to "fix" myself, and maybe I could get myself to like it enough to make my partner happy. I got tired of feeling shitty about myself that I decided to search for any causes for my lack of sexual interest. And here I am.

I don't know your girlfriend's situation, Rocko, but I'm thinking it could have been similar to that, but again, you only really know what she told you.

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Dennis

I'm in a very long term relationship with my partner (many decades) and after seeing this site, I realised that I'm not "broken", but I certainly feel it at the moment. Partner is very angry with me being asexual and I don't know if we can compromise enough to get through this. I've compromised for all this time and waited for things to work out, but I feel I need to be "me" now and accepted for who I am. I feel sorry for the anguish I'm causing and just hope we can stay together, but on terms that suit us both.

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lissi

Dennis, my guess is that your partner is not angry with you for being asexual, more likely they are angry that you have been pretending to be something you are not and feel something you didn't. Try to understand that this can be absolutely devastating.

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Sally
lissi, on 28 Jun 2014 - 2:27 PM, said:

Dennis, my guess is that your partner is not angry with you for being asexual, more likely they are angry that you have been pretending to be something you are not and feel something you didn't. Try to understand that this can be absolutely devastating.

I did what Dennis said he did: tried to be something that I thought I should be, and thought I could be if I just tried hard enough and long enough. How dare you claim that we were "pretending". The anger of a sexual partner who doesn't understand what we were going through is "absolutely devastating" also. After two years of anger and claims that I'd lied to him, my ex-partner finally understood and we are friends now. But I still went through those two years.

Take notice of the title of this thread: stopping the blame game. Maybe you should consider that.

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lissi

You can believe whatever you like Sally, but trying to be something you thought you should be - is pretending. I understand now why it happens but that does in no way diminish the harm it can cause. I understand asexuals are harmed too but that doesn't make our hurt any less.

So yes, I dare say pretending. Maybe be people should consider being responsible for their own actions - unless they wasn't to be treated like children.

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Sally
lissi, on 28 Jun 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

You can believe whatever you like Sally, but trying to be something you thought you should be - is pretending. I understand now why it happens but that does in no way diminish the harm it can cause. I understand asexuals are harmed too but that doesn't make our hurt any less.

So yes, I dare say pretending. Maybe be people should consider being responsible for their own actions - unless they wasn't to be treated like children.

"People" would include everyone. You have the responsibility to take your life in your own hands and move on from wherever you are stuck, even if you are angry. You also have the responsibility to not make assumptions about the thoughts and feelings of people you don't know; instead, you should respect the fact that they are being honest about those thoughts and feelings.

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lissi

All I did was challenge Denis' assumption that his partner was angry that he was asexual. This is likely to be a false understanding and completely unfair to the sexual partner. Your response was aggressive and rude.

I have moved on. I am not angry with my ex because I understand why he did what he did. It helps that he understands what he did too and how unfair it was to me.

I will never believe that the normal standards of behaviour don't apply to asexuals - whatever the title of this thread.

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Sally
lissi, on 28 Jun 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

All I did was challenge Denis' assumption that his partner was angry that he was asexual. This is likely to be a false understanding and completely unfair to the sexual partner. Your response was aggressive and rude.

I have moved on. I am not angry with my ex because I understand why he did what he did. It helps that he understands what he did too and how unfair it was to me.

I will never believe that the normal standards of behaviour don't apply to asexuals - whatever the title of this thread.

No, you challenged my own knowledge about myself. And I believe that it is not the normal standard of behavior to accuse someone you don't know of pretending or lying.

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lissi

I challenged your definition of pretending. My tone was in response to you 'how dare you' comment.

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Zerο

Making a lot of assumptions here.

:huh:

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Sally

Lissi, if you are not actually still angry that your partner was "unfair" to you, I wonder why you're arguing with me. I'm not your ex-partner.

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lissi

How dare you claim that we were "pretending".

There is my problem with what you said.

I don't want to argue with you. I really have gained a lot of understanding from being around here about why asexuals find themselves in a position where they might pretend. I believe that if the asexual partner can understand why their partner is angry (and the sexual partner can understand why the asexual partner behaved the way they did), a lot can be done to lessen the pain and the anger.

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Lady Girl

Personally, I wouldn't call trying to be something you think you should be pretending. But that's just me. I think as with many things, a simple fact can have a negative or positive atmosphere to it simply by the words chosen to describe that fact.

She is strong.

She is pushy.

I think choosing words with negative connotations contributes to placing the blame for one's own bad feelings, poor choices, or simple mistakes onto someone else.

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Serran

Pretending would be implying actively trying to be something you are not. Many of us get told we ARE sexual, we just haven't found that thing that makes us sexual yet and we'll get there - so we believe it.

We have absolutely no idea what Dennis' situation is, what the intentions were or what the context of their compromise was. To imply that they actively lied to their partner, rather than just not understanding, is a bit harsh for a thread about not blaming. Let the person at least say their full situation before judging.

I had sex with guys for ten years because every time I ran to ask advice from someone, the response was "Oh, that's normal, women just don't like sex - nothing odd there" or "You just haven't found what you like yet. Keep trying and it'll happen." I suppose you could call that "pretending", but, how on earth should I have known? All these "experienced" and "wise" people that were way older and more wordly kept telling me to just keep on with it and it'll get there, or keep on it with it cause my gender never gets there. Experts say everyone loves sex, it's a healthy activity in a relationship, blah blah. I eventually told prospective partners after enough experimentation that ya know, sex is something I have trouble keeping interest in and doing long term and even they said "Oh, no big deal, that's perfectly normal and you just need ...". It's so frustrating having nothing out there about not wanting sex. It's unrealistic to expect every asexual in the world to know or understand themselves well enough to discount all the things they are told they SHOULD be and all the advice they get about just needing to "do it right" and all that. As far as I knew, I was heterosexual and just hadn't figure out what I like, or was just female and normal, depending on who I asked. Asexuality was unheard of and sex was something you do, that had been drilled in my head from childhood (I got told about sex when I was 5? 6?) ... you just do it in a relationship, that's how it goes. I didn't even entertain the thought there was another option for a long, long time.

Dennis: My partner was angry at first as well. We had been fighting about sex and I went onto google to find some fix to my dead libido, because, I thought I was just heterosexual. I stumbled onto here. Things clicked. We talked... and he flipped out. But, he calmed down, after about a month. Try not to take things said right now personally. Often anger comes from a place of hurt, so it's not really about you being broken - you aren't. To many sexuals, sex is important. But, not all of them require it. So, there is hope. Lots of communication and honest talking is about all that helps though. Good luck. :cake:

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Sally

I think I found an analogy: I was trying to ride a bicycle correctly. I kept trying to ride that bicycle for years and years, because everyone else around me seemed to be able to ride correctly, and have fun doing it. I was not pretending to ride; I was TRYING to ride.

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lissi

At what point does the would-be cyclist realise the damage their trying is doing to the bike? Early in the trying process, or once the bike is broken beyond repair? Decades? I guess some bikes are more robust than others but who cares? The would-be cyclist fell off and got bruised too.

It's fine to rush over and comfort the would-cyclists, tend to their wounds. Absolutely fine, as the bike has no feelings. To say 'hold on, what about the bike?', is ridiculous. I am being ridiculous.

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Humdinger

No, no no. The analogy goes: Bike = sex; cyclists = sexuals; would-be-cyclists = asexuals. So, I’d say partnered sex is like riding a tandem? :lol: And of course, if the would-be-cyclist fumbles with the tandem, or the cyclist gets a little too enthusiastic and daring, both can fall off together and get bruised, eh?

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Mysticus Insanus

No, no no. The analogy goes: Bike = sex; cyclists = sexuals; would-be-cyclists = asexuals. So, I’d say partnered sex is like riding a tandem? :lol: And of course, if the would-be-cyclist fumbles with the tandem, both can fall off together and get bruised, eh?

Epic. And spot on.

And seeing as there are bound to be a lot of people who'd think that if they even want to bother with cycling, they'd vastly prefer a regular one-man bike, not a tandem where you have to coordinate speed and steering and all that jazz, the analogy just keeps on giving. ^_^

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Humdinger

Oh, yes! And then there are unicycles, and motorbikes; mountainbikes and racing bicycles, exercycles, even cycling on a tightrope etc, etc... ;)

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