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Lydian

Stopping the Blame Game

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JDP

ok

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Lucinda

If sex with someone who isn't into it is just as bad as no sex at all, then why do some people opt for the sex? Is it because they don't really consider it a romantic relationship? Or is it because their desire for sex trumps their need for feeling attractive?

Lucinda

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JDP

Well, at the risk of generalizing, I'd say the latter. That's how it is in my relationship, anyway.

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Lady Girl

So far I know of only two married sexual women here who are with asexual husbands. One isn't happy and the other one... I dunno. I can't really tell.

If I'm one of the sexual women, I'm going to assume I'm the one you're not sure about...I'm actually pretty darn happy. Life didn't turn out the way I thought it would, but I have love in my life and to me that pretty much trumps everything.

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JDP

So far I know of only two married sexual women here who are with asexual husbands. One isn't happy and the other one... I dunno. I can't really tell.

If I'm one of the sexual women, I'm going to assume I'm the one you're not sure about...I'm actually pretty darn happy. Life didn't turn out the way I thought it would, but I have love in my life and to me that pretty much trumps everything.

I'm very glad for that, LadyGirl. I wonder if my mrs. thinks the same.

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vcat

I've never heard of a man saying that masturbating feels the same as sex... If this thread is pinned then should we try to keep fantasy out of it? Men and women have a sex drive and it is not related to the bonding drive or whatever fiction is being born here. If you want to make sex romantic, then you can, but to say that people just want sex for bonding, when the primary reason is a sex drive which, for sexuals, is not fulfilled through masturbating, is just silly.

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Lydian

I've never heard of a man saying that masturbating feels the same as sex... If this thread is pinned then should we try to keep fantasy out of it? Men and women have a sex drive and it is not related to the bonding drive or whatever fiction is being born here. If you want to make sex romantic, then you can, but to say that people just want sex for bonding, when the primary reason is a sex drive which, for sexuals, is not fulfilled through masturbating, is just silly. And I usually see asexuals blaming asexuals for the problems in their mixed relationship, not the other way around. Asexual self-loathing and a poor understanding of how it's ridiculous for a partner to demand sex from you whether you are both sexual or mixed. That's what I see, but let's pretend?

Well, aren't you the expert on exactly how sexuality works for sexuals. If it was purely physical, I'm pretty sure a lot less partners would be bothered by their ace partner not seeing it as a bonding experience. Nobody has the right to demand sex, no. You're not entitled to sex from anyone. What they are entitled to is a relationship they can be happy with and if they're going to be unhappy without sex then that's not their fault any more than the other person's. I don't think it's all purely bonding, no. Does that make desiring sex with your partner wrong? No. Believing you are entitled or trying to guilt or otherwise manipulate your partner into it is obviously wrong, but that's not the same. Each person has the right to leave if they are not happy, and to bring up reasons why they are not happy to see if they can be resolved.

I don't know how you somehow miss some of the people in AVEN who blatantly shame people for their sexuality. I've seen it and it makes me just as angry as people who blame the asexual. Our happiness is NOT more important than theirs. Just because the way they feel about sex isn't something we can fully understand, it's how they are and we ought to respect that. Their happiness is NOT more important than ours. If we are not comfortable with what they need to be happy then they should respect that as well.

I've seen quite enough people bashing on sexuals who wont go without sex, bashing on aces who "lower themselves" to compromise or acting like we should somehow be above such a horrible thing (even though for many, it's not horrible at all) and I've had multiple people try to warn me how horrible my boyfriend is for wanting sex. It happens, less so outside perhaps, but enough here in AVEN that I believe it warranted a thread.

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Ravako

VCat, if you have not seen people saying sexuals are wrong for desiring sex in a relationship and the asexual in the mixed relationship's needs were inherently more important (for some reason) around here on AVEN, you have not been looking very thoroughly. Also, sexuals don't see sex as purely emotional bonding. That's ****ing stupid. Everyone knows there's a portion of physical stimulation in that enjoyment *as well* as the emotional bonding. Both are also true for some asexuals who choose to engage in sex. However, a reason why people say it's important in their *relationship* is the emotional bonding factor, and, no, before you jump down my throat crying "FICTION!", no one is saying that's true for everyone.

The point of this topic is to say that no one person's needs are inherently more important in a relationship. If one person *needs* sex in their relationship in order for them to be happy, they are just as "right" in that feeling and desire as the one who needs to *not* have sex. If both cannot agree to something that makes them happy and fulfilled, either one is just as right to end the relationship. In all honesty, if an asexual is being demanded of sex by a sexual partner and the asexual doesn't like it, they really should just get out of the relationship. Yes, that's an over-simplification, but seriously, in this scenario the sexual partner clearly needs sex in their relationship to be happy, and the asexual doesn't want to have sex, and engaging in it may or may not affect them emotionally/mentally. In this hypothetical -- and common -- situation neither are happy. Wouldn't it make much more sense for them to seek happiness elsewhere? It's not that either were wrong, they just had incompatible in needs. It's not the end of the world. Plenty of people have incompatible needs (even in sexualXsexual relationships).

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Namidre

I noticed someone brought up sexual people (some) thinking of sex with an asexual (sometimes) as a pity fuck. Being the sexual in the relationship, I know for -me- it isn't the case. I don't feel as if my partner is pitying me. I am always humbled by the fact that she'll be willing to push herself out of her comfort zone for me. However, that does not bring me any joy during sex.

The simple reason why is that I know that her comfort zone lies elsewhere and though she is giving consent and willing, it makes me feel on the same level as a monster or even at times a rapist for indulging. I can come away from the experience absolutely horrified with myself that even though we are consenting adults. It doesn't stop the feeling of... How do I put this? I suppose filth that I get with myself. Now, my feeling sexual isn't wrong. I acknowledge this. Her desire not to have sex is perfectly OK as well.

On a sexual level, we are not compatible. However, we have so much to lose by separating. Right now the difficult period for both of us is how long am I going to be okay with how things are. I suppose we both have that sort of fear that any day I may say "I can't do this" and have to walk away. Which is within my right, but in that aspect I believe she may feel that I am the one who holds the cards. Because I am the one that tends to notice the 'missing' or as she says I'm the one who always feels unhappy. Which, in turn, hurts us both.

To me, in my sex life, my partners hold all the cards. Their right to say no trumps everything, as I personally believe it should.

Would I do it all over again? Six years of a lot of hurt and misunderstanding and searching for answers? Damn right I would. I'd hurt all over rather than not having her in my life. (Maybe that question was asked in another thread though. I've read so many!)

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Marimal

This topic is one reason why I joined this forum tonight. I identified as bisexual as a teen and lesbian starting at age 24, but now that I'm 46, I'm seeing that neither of these is accurate. I've been in so many relationships with men, women and trans people where the focus was always on their sexuality because mine was so amorphous... I've never really understood mine and have tended to try on many hats, so to speak.

But now, I would like to understand how I feel/respond and try to live more closely to what my needs are. I've been in a monogamous lesbian relationship for almost seven years, but haven't been sexual in it for 5 of those years. And I'm very tired of the blame game... very hurtful and not productive at all.

I look forward to learning more and meeting more folks here. I'm a student and went past the queer resource center a while ago and saw a poster about gray-a... piqued my curiosity so I decided to do a little research. I've never considered myself asexual, but demisexual and more focused on romance is definitely getting closer to what I experience.

Good night everyone!

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YeOldeToast

When you see asexuals react, I think its important to note that many of us feel that it is and always will be US that are expected to compromise, otherwise we would basically be with another asexual.

This is what I dont get about asexuals that choose to have sex. You're basically rendering your asexuality moot. To me its almost like a gay person forcing themselves to be with the opposite sex because there arent many gays in their area/vicinity.

Sorry if that offends anyone. Its not intended to.

Same could be said about a sexual forcing themselves to be platonic, it's quite a blurred line between what's more acceptable: A sexual pressuring their partner to have sex, or an asexual forcing their partner to be platonic. It really is completely variable and when it comes to compromises it should be entirely with utilitarianism in mind because from a black and white standpoint each alternative is as bad as the other.

What it really comes down to is would the asexual partner be ok with having sex to make their relationship as happy as possible? Or is sex completely out of the equation? A complete sexual animal who needs it in a relationship would obviously feel in purgatory with no contact, and a repulsed asexual giving it a go will just not end well (duh), but if said sexual animal's partner would feel minimal resentment at having sex, if any at all, and feels a sense of happiness that they're making the partner they love happy then that's the way to go; and vice versa, if the sexual partner is happy to show restraint to keep their repulsed partner comfortable then that's a deal. Obviously this is easier said than done, a lot of sexual/asexual relationships aren't so simple and unfortunately a lot of the time seem to be a match-up between a sexual animal and an unwilling asexual partner, in which case that's probably just not gonna work.

Forgive me if I just seem like a rambling prick stating the obvious here, I probably completely misinterpreted what you were saying since it seemed to me like a 'no sex for asexual pride' sort of thing, in which case I'm a moron and I sincerely apologise. I just felt I should say something.

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The Great WTF

Can we please not refer to sexual people as animals? I doubt you mean any disrespect by it but it's really not a very pleasant term.

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YeOldeToast

Sorry, I didn't mean it in a derogatory way. I'll avoid further use of it.

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The Great WTF

Thanks. It's just one of those things that never seems to fly very well, especially since a lot of militant antisexuals tend to use animal to refer to sexual people.

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MikeysGrrrl1979

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the original starting post of this thread, I think it may have helped me feel a little more accepted here on AVEN. I know that I am new to the community, but I've been lurking for a few months, scared to post anything because I've read the posts in threads where the sexual is getting picked on and make to feel bad for not only wanting sex but enjoying it as well.

I'm the sexual partner in my marriage, my husband is either Asexual or Gray A, in any event it's been over 7 months since we were last intimate and it really tears me up inside, it feels as though a part of my heart is breaking off each and every day.

Despite what some people may believe, as a sexual I could honestly care less if I had another orgasm (yes it feels amazing, but if it was really all that important, I would just take care of the matter myself). For me it really is about the emotional connection that I share with my husband, making love is the ultimate closeness, you cannot possibly getting any closer to another person physically), my husband and I used to make love 3-5 times a week, he used to tell me that it was so amazing and wonderful and then he just stopped. Prior to that, He had been the initiater 75% of the time, it wasn't like I forced myself on him.

Not everything is so black and white, I miss that closeness. It's not about getting off, not even in the slightest.

If I could do it all again, I would in a heartbeat! I love my husband more than anything, our marriage is important to the both of us. We're still trying to figure things out, no one has a perfect marriage, some people fight about money, kids, work etc... we'll just have tiffs about intimacy or lack of it.

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Sebas320

Im a sexual man dating an asexual woman. In my case my girlfriend loves the feeling of sex and the intimacy within it. But she is not one to initiate it (though she has in the past) nor is she one to desire it. I am coming into terms with her being asexual and I do not love her any less. There are times when she comes over and tells me off the bat "I don't wanna have sex"...does this frustrate me? Absolutely but it doesn't make me an animal and I get over it pretty quick, especially since we still cuddle, kiss, hug, etc. Not all sexuals are animals/savages. YES we do crave and desire sex, sometimes more often than we should but as long as we are able to contain ourselves and learn to compromise, that is what will seperate us from sexuals who do act like animals and guilt their partners into sex for that sexual void fullfillment.

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VindicatorPhoenix

Carmilla, I completely agree with your post; pride in one's sexuality is just as important as the respect for that of others.

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noregrets

I like the original post ^_^ 'twas something I needed to read tonight.

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Debdolittle31

My marriage was just awful because of me not having a need for sex! I was constantly told that there was something wrong with me and that I should want it! But I didn't! We divorced last year and well I'm not in a relationship now as its much easier to stay on my own rather than be told that I'm not normal! I am normal! Normal for me! I would have been quite happy to stay married if he could've accepted me as I am but he wouldn't and so it ended! I can imagine that this will always happen with new relationships so I take the choice to be alone! Upsets me yes but I can't keep going through what my asexuality causes in relationships.

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Aesthete

Debdolittle31, I am so sorry to hear that you have had such a bad experience. I do hope that you don't give up hope, though: there are people all along the asexuality/sexuality spectrum, so it's definitely not out of the question that you could meet somebody who is more compatible with respect to what is important to them in a relationship.

And certainly, I would hope that most people wouldn't start accusing their partner of not being normal just because their need for sex isn't the same as theirs. I don't think that's destined to happen with a new relationship; it all depends on how reasonable the other person is, and on there being good communication about hopes and expectations at the outset. But I know that it doesn't always feel as if there is any alternative to being alone, and so I sympathize with how you feel.

Accepting and loving one's spouse for who they are is a critical baseline for any relationship, in my opinion. But the way you phrased it does remind me of conversations between my wife and myself that have ended with her saying "why can't you just accept me as I am?". I am the more sexual partner, though I don't think I have ever felt overly sexual at any time in my life; I have always loved being affectionate in a non-sexual way, though. My wife doesn't identify as asexual, and I would certainly never assign an unwanted label to anyone... but I have been reading the forums here for a few weeks to try to better understand how she might be experiencing things. I read a lot that resonates.

But I read many forum postings about "compromise", but what strikes me is that there is an inherent asymmetry between more sexual and less sexual partners, and rightfully so: every person has a right to be left alone, and certainly nobody has a right to touch another person, let alone to expect to be intimate with them. So when my wife would end a conversation by saying "why can't you just accept me as I am?", meaning: "why can't you accept that I don't want to be touched in any way at all", then that's kind of final. I of course would admit that, yes, I can accept (and love!) her as she is. But that still leaves the other partner yearning for affection. It is a bit of a dilemma, and difficult to resolve in an existing marriage. But I mention all of this just because it underscores how important it is to figure things out at the start of a new relationship. You could look at it this way: you have learned a lot, and gained a lot of experience so that next time, you can choose a partner whose expectations are more in line with your own.

It always sounds kind of trite (and unbearably cheerful) to say "don't lose hope". But really, it breaks my heart to hear someone feel that bad things are destined to happen, and moreover to feel that it was your asexuality that caused it; from what I can tell, one could equally well say that it was his sexuality, and closed-mindedness on top of it, that caused it.

Wishing you all the best,

A.

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ryu-no-joou

I can't offer any relationship advice, not having been in a relationship myself, but this topic makes me a bit sad. I understand how asexuals can feel oppressed or forced to compromise by sexuals. I also understand that sexuals can feel repressed or forced to compromise by asexuals. It's basically this: sexuals aren't wrong to want sex. Asexuals aren't wrong to not want sex. Every relationship involves some degree of compromise, and a good relationship involves a lot of communication and understanding. If those things aren't there, the relationship will not be happy, no matter what the partners' orientation/gender/desire/whatever.

Don't listen to me, I'm stupid. I just want everyone to be able to get along and be happy.

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PurveyorOfBadPuns

THANK YOU! I have been trying to articulate this for ages, but never found the words until now. Great point.

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Anom1990

This post I made me feel a bit split, I may have post some that that can be missing the other side of the coin (the sexual part) but I think I do it more because I don't think I can represent it not because I don't understand/try to understand there feelings and constantly try to compromise in my relationships.

Just wanted to make it clear that not all post that mention only one side is because of ignorance or "blame game"

(I am sure there are post that are as bad as you say)

best wishes.

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Hypnotech

@Ladeca,I agree with you 100%

I personally don't put down people who like sex or love sex or want sex but I just can't see that for myself.

I also feel that COMMUNICATION is the key before anyone gets into a relationship.

Like I'm asexual,why would I persue someone who isn't? That would cause tension and frustration for the both of us.

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Rocko

So to all the asexual women that have posted on this thread and are married to a heterosexual male were you a virgin when you got married? Did you have sex with your husband before marriage? Those kids you have are they adopted or biological? What I am getting at is did you lead your husband into thinking he was marrying a heterosexual female. did you deceive him by faking orgasms and telling him you enjoyed sex with him. Did you tell him you were asexual up front? Did you wake up one day after you were married and all of a sudden discover you were not heterosexual but asexual. Men who are in this type of relationship, pardon the pun but you got screwed. Woman why did you have sex with your husbands when you first met and/or were first married to him, have kids with him, and then tell him you are asexual?.

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Lady Girl

So to all the asexual women that have posted on this thread and are married to a heterosexual male were you a virgin when you got married? Did you have sex with your husband before marriage? Those kids you have are they adopted or biological? What I am getting at is did you lead your husband into thinking he was marrying a heterosexual female. did you deceive him by faking orgasms and telling him you enjoyed sex with him. Did you tell him you were asexual up front? Did you wake up one day after you were married and all of a sudden discover you were not heterosexual but asexual. Men who are in this type of relationship, pardon the pun but you got screwed. Woman why did you have sex with your husbands when you first met and/or were first married to him, have kids with him, and then tell him you are asexual?.

This can happen quite easily since asexuality is still a relatively unknown factor in society...that's why visibility is so important. It also happens that asexual men become romantically involved with sexual women (as in my case). The thing is, for most people, they love someone and if marriage is part of the picture, they both go into it planning to make the other person as happy as they can. It's not really faking, as much as it is trying to be what is expected.

After awhile, it can become more and more difficult to put aside uncomfortable or even repulsed feelings and continue with the initial level of frequency (and/or some of the other particulars involved in sexual relations).

Anyway, as the title of this thread indicates, blaming the asexual partner for not knowing or the sexual partner for feeling frustrated doesn't help...deciding how to move forward does.

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Rocko

So if an asexual partner, in my case my wife, was having sex to make me "happy" and as you say "trying to be what is expected". Then why stop doing this? I think it's much more than the above. Maybe this is where we differ. If it was so important to make me happy when we first started going together then why is it no longer important now? I am of the mindset that some women go along with having sex, having children with their spouse, then when they feel secure in their marriage they drop the A-bomb on their partner. Look we all do things for our spouse that isn't to our liking but we do it because we love them and it makes them happy. A happy wife makes for a happy life! Well not exactly. If having sex with your partner is so upsetting to you and that includes any physical contact like a loving kiss and cuddling it seems to me that there is more going on than you believing you are asexual. It's the asexual partner that needs to find the answers not the other way around. Sex is one of the three things a women needs to do to keep her man and by refusing to have sex with him, it becomes a doomed marriage in most cases.

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Lady Girl

It's sometimes harder to make someone happy at your own expense than one would think. I also think that as time goes by, doing something you don't enjoy (but are expected to do and enjoy) may become more difficult.

Yes, sometimes the relationship will end. Other times, the two people come to some kind of arrangement (willing sexual compromise or open relationship). Some sexual people can go without sex, some asexual people feel rather neutral about sex and don't mind maintaining that in the relationship. But it is not for us to say whether it is harder to go without (if you want it) or to have it (if you don't). Nor is it our place to judge how or why a person believes they are asexual...that is only for them to know and share.

It's the asexual partner that needs to find the answers not the other way around.

In a relationship, it is almost always the responsibility of both people to care for each other and find solutions to problems together.

Sex is one of the three things a women needs to do to keep her man and by refusing to have sex with him, it becomes a doomed marriage in most cases.

Sex is not one of the three things a woman needs to do to keep her man...but it sounds like it may be one of the three things a woman needs to do to keep you.

I don't consider it refusing another person sex...it's respecting their own mind and body. If they have previously compromised, who's to say it's not the sexual partner's turn to do so for them? Then again, parting ways may be the best answer. Every couple/relationship is different.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I understand your frustration (believe me, I do). But blaming our partner and not trying to understand how they might feel doesn't solve anything.

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NotAllHere

Why is there only one 'Like' button? I want to like LadyGirl a million and a half times!

If my boyfriend told me that I HAD to have sex with him, that it's my duty as his girlfriend to keep him happy... my response would be 'Then I don't feel you deserve happiness.' At least your post made me realize how awesome my boyfriend is because he doesn't think I owe him sh-t; and I'm glad I never dated anyone like you. Are the other two things Cleaning and Cooking? Maybe you're right and your wife not having sex with you has nothing to do with being asexual; maybe she just realized how much of a sexist person you really are and she's no longer attracted to you. Good for her.

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Rocko

I guess my point is if you knew you were asexual before you met your husband then isn't it his right to know that while dating? If my wife had told me she was asexual when we first met I would have said I am not and moved on to someone else.

My wife never just laid on the bed and told me to stick it in and get it over with. She had orgasms, I don't think a woman that despises sex can do that.

Sex is a natural thing between two people and is important more so for men then women and that's what most of the asexual's on this board who are mostly women, don't or won't understand .

Lady Girl if you don't think sex is that important to a male in a marriage, then why do so many men look outside their marriage for it..

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