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Lydian

Stopping the Blame Game

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Anajna

That's just gross >.< What a prick, glad you're not with him anymore.

Yes, it was a 2 year relationship and extremely traumatizing, on many fronts, alas I do believe there are many out there who really just can not help being the way they are (him included). It isn't as if society would teach about these things, but instead sex is used to sell almost any product now, and everyone is raised as a 'consumer', and that includes sex. There is no meaning attached to it AT ALL anymore, in my view. It has been depersonnalized completely, and that makes it harder and harder for us, who just do not feel this way.

He just could not understand, lacking any education on it, any taught restraint, and as humans are by evolution opportunistic, sex gets (ab)used for so much - and is even being advertised as 'healhty' and 'stress relieving'. How often I get to see facebook stuff, with the message that sex prevents this illness, or that illness, benefits your this or that - just isn't funny anymore. And it puts even MORE pressure on us, as it gives sexual partners this 'weapon' of guilt, in saying 'you don't have sex with me all the time - you risk me not being well and/or even falling ill!'

And if you think that is gross, try being in pain and another pointing at your mouth, saying 'but you are not in pain there' -.- I am just totally petrified now, not trusting any 'sexual' anymore, while same time feeling bad, as I am sure there are sexuals out there, who can develop understanding, and will not just look out for their own enjoyment, but involve their asexual partners in their concerns.

Heavens, even using the letters 'sex' has me shudder now >.<

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Anajna

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but sometimes I think there is a more sinister manipulation lurking behind all this, too >.>

It feels people are being pushed into 'sex obsession' almost, and if you are obsessed and addicted to something, it occupies your mind heaps, making you less likely to question authorities or anything beyond your immediate need to have your addiition satisfied. It looks to me definitely as one way to oppress and shackle the masses, to control them easier >.>

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RoL34

That's just gross >.< What a prick, glad you're not with him anymore.

Yes, it was a 2 year relationship and extremely traumatizing, on many fronts, alas I do believe there are many out there who really just can not help being the way they are (him included). It isn't as if society would teach about these things, but instead sex is used to sell almost any product now, and everyone is raised as a 'consumer', and that includes sex. There is no meaning attached to it AT ALL anymore, in my view. It has been depersonnalized completely, and that makes it harder and harder for us, who just do not feel this way.

He just could not understand, lacking any education on it, any taught restraint, and as humans are by evolution opportunistic, sex gets (ab)used for so much - and is even being advertised as 'healhty' and 'stress relieving'. How often I get to see facebook stuff, with the message that sex prevents this illness, or that illness, benefits your this or that - just isn't funny anymore. And it puts even MORE pressure on us, as it gives sexual partners this 'weapon' of guilt, in saying 'you don't have sex with me all the time - you risk me not being well and/or even falling ill!'

And if you think that is gross, try being in pain and another pointing at your mouth, saying 'but you are not in pain there' -.- I am just totally petrified now, not trusting any 'sexual' anymore, while same time feeling bad, as I am sure there are sexuals out there, who can develop understanding, and will not just look out for their own enjoyment, but involve their asexual partners in their concerns.

Heavens, even using the letters 'sex' has me shudder now >.<

I'm so sorry that happened to you, and if you ask me, its more his problem than society's. There are plenty of men out there who understand not to treat women like blow up dolls despite what the media says. That guy was a self-centered asshat and deserves to be kicked in the groin. Repeatedly.

I think we need to point something out - sex IS healthy. It releases endorphins, it lowers stress levels, and actually doing it only to have children really isn't that good of an idea. It is an important natural bodily function. THAT being said, being pressured into sex is far, far more damaging than being witheld it, and if anyone tries to bully you into doing something you don't want to, you need to get away from them. I don't know why we're asexual, I just know that we don't have those cravings like other people, or feel "backed up" (whatever that means) if we don't have sex often enough, and that's just how we are. And if a sexual person can't understand that, its their problem, not yours.

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Nogitsune

@Anajna: I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I just want to say, being mistrustful of people after experiencing something like that does in no way make you wrong or unfair. It's completely natural to feel like that after someone treated you like he was entitled to your very body. As you said, what you partner did was horrible and abusive - the groin thing for one would be classified as sexual assault because it was a sexual act you did not agree to, and while society is often toxic when it comes to the matter of consent, it's not something people genuinely can't help (or they'd have to be locked away for everyone's safety). Showing basic human decency to one's partner and not treating them like an object does definitely not require being on the asexual spectrum, but as you noted, because society is shitty, there is a power imbalance there, particularly when misogyny enters the equation. So being wary is nothing you should have to feel bad about and can in fact be a survival mechanism, though hopefully you'll meet many people in the future who care about you for being an amazing person, and who respect your boundaries because you're a human being who deserves respect, and who know you don't owe them anything for any of this.

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Ciri

How about we don't blame the patriarchy, men, sex positivity or sexuality for rape. Blame lies on the rapist, themselves. My "friends" openly mocked me when I told them my ex raped me and one even showed there distain for women who cry rape after bad sex (suggesting that was what I was doing). I went and locked myself in a bathroom for half an hour.

There is a difference between bad sex and rape. And it is up to both parties in a relationship to clearly outline their boundaries. Sometimes rape can be an honest mistake in which case the rapist must understand their mistake and make sure it never happens again - reporting themselves to the police if they believe it is the right thing to do.

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Anajna

I'm so sorry that happened to you, and if you ask me, its more his problem than society's. There are plenty of men out there who understand not to treat women like blow up dolls despite what the media says. That guy was a self-centered asshat and deserves to be kicked in the groin. Repeatedly.

I think we need to point something out - sex IS healthy. It releases endorphins, it lowers stress levels, and actually doing it only to have children really isn't that good of an idea. It is an important natural bodily function. THAT being said, being pressured into sex is far, far more damaging than being witheld it, and if anyone tries to bully you into doing something you don't want to, you need to get away from them. I don't know why we're asexual, I just know that we don't have those cravings like other people, or feel "backed up" (whatever that means) if we don't have sex often enough, and that's just how we are. And if a sexual person can't understand that, its their problem, not yours.

Yes, sex does have health benefits, but I tend to tell people that Gandhi lived without it, and had he not ended shot, I am sure he had grown old quite healthy too :) (;'( though to him ending shot)

What gets me is that it hands this 'weapon' over. I had that health thing used against me, and also that it was normal, while I was abnormal. These kind of reports fuel the fire in unfortunate ways, while at the same time there is no mainstream education provided that teaches about asexuality or its varying forms *sighs*

And thank you loads for the support, means heaps ^^

@Anajna: I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I just want to say, being mistrustful of people after experiencing something like that does in no way make you wrong or unfair. It's completely natural to feel like that after someone treated you like he was entitled to your very body. As you said, what you partner did was horrible and abusive - the groin thing for one would be classified as sexual assault because it was a sexual act you did not agree to, and while society is often toxic when it comes to the matter of consent, it's not something people genuinely can't help (or they'd have to be locked away for everyone's safety). Showing basic human decency to one's partner and not treating them like an object does definitely not require being on the asexual spectrum, but as you noted, because society is shitty, there is a power imbalance there, particularly when misogyny enters the equation. So being wary is nothing you should have to feel bad about and can in fact be a survival mechanism, though hopefully you'll meet many people in the future who care about you for being an amazing person, and who respect your boundaries because you're a human being who deserves respect, and who know you don't owe them anything for any of this.

Thank you so much for your kind words, and I think having found this forum and the fact that asexuality is indeed something naturally occuring (and not some 'disorder' or what not, as I was beginning to believe my attitude towards sex might be..) will help me heaps to gain an overall new confidence. That in turn will definitely enable me to explain myself to others with more weight behind me, which in itself should hopefully prevent me ending in those type of relationships ever again, as I now know I have a right to be this, and am not just weird or even 'ill'.

How about we don't blame the patriarchy, men, sex positivity or sexuality for rape. Blame lies on the rapist, themselves. My "friends" openly mocked me when I told them my ex raped me and one even showed there distain for women who cry rape after bad sex (suggesting that was what I was doing). I went and locked myself in a bathroom for half an hour.

There is a difference between bad sex and rape. And it is up to both parties in a relationship to clearly outline their boundaries. Sometimes rape can be an honest mistake in which case the rapist must understand their mistake and make sure it never happens again - reporting themselves to the police if they believe it is the right thing to do.

So so sorry to hear this happened to you, and yes, who needs 'friends' like that, when one can have enemies instead. Hope you were able to remove them and replace them with friends who actually know what support and caring means.

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C.F.L.

I think we need to point something out - sex IS healthy. It releases endorphins, it lowers stress levels, and actually doing it only to have children really isn't that good of an idea. It is an important natural bodily function. THAT being said, being pressured into sex is far, far more damaging than being witheld it, and if anyone tries to bully you into doing something you don't want to, you need to get away from them. I don't know why we're asexual, I just know that we don't have those cravings like other people, or feel "backed up" (whatever that means) if we don't have sex often enough, and that's just how we are. And if a sexual person can't understand that, its their problem, not yours.

You make some very good points. That sex can generally be good for a lot of ppl. And also that should always be something that a person freely choose to do, whether it is because of some innate desire; or possibly also because wanting to please someone else that's dear to him/her.

But I do want to make a small qualification, that: sex is healthy for SOME people. We don't know if the hormonal or other physiological benefits applies universally to everyone, or to people of every orientation, or that it should always be sought by the entire humanity. It is possible that these things, whether physiological or psychological, should apply only to a subset of human beings, and those that are biologically asexual would not experience or have the need for such things. And there isn't any study that I know of or any factual merit for this type of reasoning; but it's just kind of a popular assumption in society, it seems.

Sometimes, well meaning relatives of friends often apply pressure on ACEs in such as way, as to make them feel that they are missing out on something great and healthful, or that they are doing something that is less than optimal for their physical or mental health.

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C.F.L.

@Ciri and @Anajna;

So sorry to hear everything that both of you have gone through. I can't imagine what would it be like to be in that position; I still have to pinch myself sometime to wrap my head around the fact that these terrible things still go on every day.

Individual people definitely have to take responsibility for their own action. They can't just pretend that the things that they have done to hurt other people could somehow be ameliorated by the fact that their life or experience might have influenced them in some way; they have to face their decisions and actions, their consequences, and what they have done to damage others' lives.

Also, in some ways, the society, and the culture we live in, in many ways do make these things do make these things more prevalent, and occurring with more virulence, kinda like the "sex obsession" that you talked about. It's not to spread the responsibilities around or the collectivize guilt, or anything like that; but try to recognize how these dark spots in our culture can be damaging, and how we might be able to change them in the future, to avoid these incidences as much as possible.

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RoL34

I think we need to point something out - sex IS healthy. It releases endorphins, it lowers stress levels, and actually doing it only to have children really isn't that good of an idea. It is an important natural bodily function. THAT being said, being pressured into sex is far, far more damaging than being witheld it, and if anyone tries to bully you into doing something you don't want to, you need to get away from them. I don't know why we're asexual, I just know that we don't have those cravings like other people, or feel "backed up" (whatever that means) if we don't have sex often enough, and that's just how we are. And if a sexual person can't understand that, its their problem, not yours.

You make some very good points. That sex can generally be good for a lot of ppl. And also that should always be something that a person freely choose to do, whether it is because of some innate desire; or possibly also because wanting to please someone else that's dear to him/her.

But I do want to make a small qualification, that: sex is healthy for SOME people. We don't know if the hormonal or other physiological benefits applies universally to everyone, or to people of every orientation, or that it should always be sought by the entire humanity. It is possible that these things, whether physiological or psychological, should apply only to a subset of human beings, and those that are biologically asexual would not experience or have the need for such things. And there isn't any study that I know of or any factual merit for this type of reasoning; but it's just kind of a popular assumption in society, it seems.

Sometimes, well meaning relatives of friends often apply pressure on ACEs in such as way, as to make them feel that they are missing out on something great and healthful, or that they are doing something that is less than optimal for their physical or mental health.

My method is quite simple: if it feels good, do it. If it doesn't, don't. And just because something is good for one person doesn't mean it is good for others. The way i have fun is by riding roller coasters, yet some people are terrified of them. Should. I force them on Loch Ness Monster anf Alpengeist until they get over it? Yes, that is how stupid pressuring an asexual into sex sounds to me.

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alliace

Having a little trouble with the word "compromise." My understanding is that means everybody gives up a little of something that they want and settles for something less desirable. I want chocolate ice cream, you want pistachio, but we can only get one flavor so we compromise and get rocky road, which isn't either of our first choice, but each likes it better than the other's first choice. I can't figure out what the sexual/non-sexual equivalent is... It seems like it's either on or not. Are we talking about mutual sacrifice? Not saying that it's not worth it for love, and maybe that just doesn't sound as nice as compromise, and that's ok too, but is there something between sexual and non-sexual that I'm not thinking of?

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Ravako

Not saying that it's not worth it for love, and maybe that just doesn't sound as nice as compromise, and that's ok too, but is there something between sexual and non-sexual that I'm not thinking of?

Use your imagination. Plenty of asexualXsexual couples have figured it out. ;) It could be not a lot of sex (less than what the sexual wants and more than the asexual wants, but personally a compromise where neither is happy seems kinda lose/lose to me, but it may be different to other people), or it could be any number of other ways of being intimate that both are comfortable with.

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alliace

Not saying that it's not worth it for love, and maybe that just doesn't sound as nice as compromise, and that's ok too, but is there something between sexual and non-sexual that I'm not thinking of?

Use your imagination. Plenty of asexualXsexual couples have figured it out. ;) It could be not a lot of sex (less than what the sexual wants and more than the asexual wants, but personally a compromise where neither is happy seems kinda lose/lose to me, but it may be different to other people), or it could be any number of other ways of being intimate that both are comfortable with.

Ooops...yikes, sorry. Didn't mean to sound like I was asking for gory details, maybe we can all ignore my question? :redface: I get what you're saying - that lose/lose scenario (my perception only, I'm glad it does work for some people) though, is what I was looking for an alternative to... but now I can't think how anyone could answer such a thing anyway - everyone has to figure out what works/doesn't work for them, I suppose.

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Fitzsimmons ♡

I just found this song. Communication is important!

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Philiarocks

Alliace, compromise can also be about finding things that make both partners happy, as opposed to things which they're both willing to put up with. It can be a matter of self-discovery.

So for example: sexual partner says they need sex to feel loved, thinks ace partner doesn't love them because they don't feel sexual attraction. Ace partner explains that isn't true, in fact, they love sexual partner to bits! They just have no yearning to express love that way. In the process of communication, sexual partner realises that what they really need is not sex as such, but a sense of physical intimacy. The issue is that they had assumed that love and intimacy automatically equals sex. Together through talking and experimentation, they work out a dynamic solution which works for both of them: they'll snuggle more and practise sensual things to provide a greater sense of intimacy. Both partners learn something about themselves, each other, and find new ways to be happy together.

It doesn't always work, and it doesn't always work out that way. Some issues can't be reconciled without sacrifice, and that is difficult. I'm just pointing to a scenario in which the partners compromise lovingly and effectively, and come out happier in the end.

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alliace

I appreciate your patience in walking me step by step through your example.

It makes sense that rather than just an "I want this and you want that, and they are mutually exclusive" it could be possible to look at the components and the assumptions and expectations that make up those black and white statements, and that there might actually be compromise available within that information. This makes a lot of sense to me and feels really hopeful --

It's my intent to leave an old story behind where I discover in each relationship that I've "gone off sex." That might make sense or be fix-able if it happened once or twice, but not when it's been going on a lifetime. I'd like to approach a new relationship with a clear-eyed understanding that the most likely thing is that I will "go off sex" in a couple of months - that that is how my sexuality expresses, not some aberration of my sexuality - and even though I can imagine that I'll be sure that "this time will be different," it is something that I want to talk to a potential partner about and, by golly, if they need to run off, better that than feeling that I've mislead someone and need to "live up to it." Or whatever nonsense I get into my head.

But I kept getting myself stuck in an "ok, but why talk about something that has no potential resolution other than misery-for-someone." That kind of thinking has definitely not been leading me to let anyone get very close to me. I like that your example helps me move toward a gentler possibility --

Thank you!

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graham2109

Unfortunately, there are people driven by sex.

I have only ever had one relationship. I fell in love with someone who I knew was sexually active. I explained to them when I first met that I have no interest in sex, and I reminded him of that. He said he had no problem as he loved me. He started cheating me. I couldn't give him what he wanted and why should I have?

I really want another relationship now but don't know where to find someone like me. There are not many people on www.asexualitic.com

I have just discovered www.ace-book.net but many people haven't been online since 2009. I just wish I discovered the sites years ago.

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JDP

Having a little trouble with the word "compromise." My understanding is that means everybody gives up a little of something that they want and settles for something less desirable. I want chocolate ice cream, you want pistachio, but we can only get one flavor so we compromise and get rocky road, which isn't either of our first choice, but each likes it better than the other's first choice. I can't figure out what the sexual/non-sexual equivalent is... It seems like it's either on or not. Are we talking about mutual sacrifice? Not saying that it's not worth it for love, and maybe that just doesn't sound as nice as compromise, and that's ok too, but is there something between sexual and non-sexual that I'm not thinking of?

A very good analogy.

There are a lot of good posts in this thread, a lot of good people in this forum. I see a lot of suggestions from married asexuals about how to make it work with sexual spouses, but not a thing from sexual spouses who "compromised" with their asexual spouses.

It seems to me sexuals have a psychic need for intimacy that only sex, and sexual attraction, provides.

Cuddling, massage, touching -- that's like getting vanilla ice cream when you want your favorite flavor.

And to a sexual -- correct me if I'm wrong -- sex without sexual attraction is just a pity fuck. To them, it doesn't count.

An asexual may call sex in such circumstances a compromise, but I imagine to a sexual spouse it's a surrender of all hope something better.

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Lydian

Having a little trouble with the word "compromise." My understanding is that means everybody gives up a little of something that they want and settles for something less desirable. I want chocolate ice cream, you want pistachio, but we can only get one flavor so we compromise and get rocky road, which isn't either of our first choice, but each likes it better than the other's first choice. I can't figure out what the sexual/non-sexual equivalent is... It seems like it's either on or not. Are we talking about mutual sacrifice? Not saying that it's not worth it for love, and maybe that just doesn't sound as nice as compromise, and that's ok too, but is there something between sexual and non-sexual that I'm not thinking of?

A very good analogy.

There are a lot of good posts in this thread, a lot of good people in this forum. I see a lot of suggestions from married asexuals about how to make it work with sexual spouses, but not a thing from sexual spouses who "compromised" with their asexual spouses.

It seems to me sexuals have a psychic need for intimacy that only sex, and sexual attraction, provides.

Cuddling, massage, touching -- that's like getting vanilla ice cream when you want your favorite flavor.

And to a sexual -- correct me if I'm wrong -- sex without sexual attraction is just a pity fuck. To them, it doesn't count.

An asexual may call sex in such circumstances a compromise, but I imagine to a sexual spouse it's a surrender of all hope something better.

I have seen people who do consider it only a "pity fuck" and it is frustrating because what else can we do? But there are also some who realize that doing something to make your partner happy is not "pity". I would say how they feel about it is highly dependant on both people involved and also in how they look at it. I'm lucky enough to have someone who doesn't think it would be an act of pity, and appreciates that going outside my normal boundaries for him would be a really big deal and means I care for him a lot. I suppose in practice sometimes it's hard to keep that positive frame of mind all the time, but I don't think dismissing your partner's desire to make you happy as "pity" is fair either. The fact that your partner loves you enough to do something they wouldn't normally just to see you happy is not, to me, something to dismiss as a "pity fuck". If my boyfriend goes into a store he would normally avoid because he knows I'd really like to shop there, is that pity? Is watching a movie I wouldn't normally care to see because he wants to see it pity? I don't know anyone who would say so, so why is sex so different? Sure it's not ideal if the person isn't attracted to you, but don't degrade it as though it has no meaning.

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JDP

<snip>I have seen people who do consider it only a "pity fuck" and it is frustrating because what else can we do?<snip>

Exactly. That's my predicament. My wife has this need to attract, and to feel attractive, to me, which I don't. She doesn't want sex to be a "gift." She wants it to be the end result of attraction and desire.

<snip>But there are also some who realize that doing something to make your partner happy is not "pity". I would say how they feel about it is highly dependant on both people involved and also in how they look at it. I'm lucky enough to have someone who doesn't think it would be an act of pity, and appreciates that going outside my normal boundaries for him would be a really big deal and means I care for him a lot.<snip>

Most of the asexual/sexual marriages described here involve an asexual wife and sexual husband. I'm guessing, but as a guy I tend to think sexual male spouses are better at this kind of compromise than sexual female spouses.

How does a sexual wife enjoy sex with a husband that doesn't "want" her? How does a wife who would rather not masturbate have sex with a husband who would just as soon masturbate?

I'd give a paycheck to the person who can answer those questions. My analyst can't.

<snip>I suppose in practice sometimes it's hard to keep that positive frame of mind all the time, but I don't think dismissing your partner's desire to make you happy as "pity" is fair either. The fact that your partner loves you enough to do something they wouldn't normally just to see you happy is not, to me, something to dismiss as a "pity fuck". If my boyfriend goes into a store he would normally avoid because he knows I'd really like to shop there, is that pity? Is watching a movie I wouldn't normally care to see because he wants to see it pity? I don't know anyone who would say so, so why is sex so different? Sure it's not ideal if the person isn't attracted to you, but don't degrade it as though it has no meaning<snip>

I'm not the one degrading it. I'm the asexual. I was simply trying to see it from her point of view, which I am pretty sure I'm describing accurately.

From a technical point of view, I'm a great lover. I know all the techniques and use the ones my lover likes the most. Within a few minutes, she's having multiple, powerful orgasms.

That's not enough for sexual wives, because sex isn't just mechanical for them. It's not just a way of getting off.

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Lydian

I'm not the one degrading it. I'm the asexual. I was simply trying to see it from her point of view, which I am pretty sure I'm describing accurately.

From a technical point of view, I'm a great lover. I know all the techniques and use the ones my lover likes the most. Within a few minutes, she's having multiple, powerful orgasms.

That's not enough for sexual wives, because sex isn't just mechanical for them. It's not just a way of getting off.

No I know, I just kind of meant that as a general statement.

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JDP

OK, I thought so.

I'd like to hear from sexual women if they feel the ego needs of men are greater than, less than or equal to, those of women.

As a man, I would think if a wife said to her husband, "I'm not attracted to you, but you can have sex with me any time you want," he would probably say "OK, I can live with that."

Somehow if the shoe is on the other foot, it's different.

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Aqua-ace

A very good analogy.

There are a lot of good posts in this thread, a lot of good people in this forum. I see a lot of suggestions from married asexuals about how to make it work with sexual spouses, but not a thing from sexual spouses who "compromised" with their asexual spouses.

It seems to me sexuals have a psychic need for intimacy that only sex, and sexual attraction, provides.

Cuddling, massage, touching -- that's like getting vanilla ice cream when you want your favorite flavor.

And to a sexual -- correct me if I'm wrong -- sex without sexual attraction is just a pity fuck. To them, it doesn't count.

An asexual may call sex in such circumstances a compromise, but I imagine to a sexual spouse it's a surrender of all hope something better.

I have seen people who do consider it only a "pity fuck" and it is frustrating because what else can we do? But there are also some who realize that doing something to make your partner happy is not "pity". I would say how they feel about it is highly dependant on both people involved and also in how they look at it. I'm lucky enough to have someone who doesn't think it would be an act of pity, and appreciates that going outside my normal boundaries for him would be a really big deal and means I care for him a lot. I suppose in practice sometimes it's hard to keep that positive frame of mind all the time, but I don't think dismissing your partner's desire to make you happy as "pity" is fair either. The fact that your partner loves you enough to do something they wouldn't normally just to see you happy is not, to me, something to dismiss as a "pity fuck". If my boyfriend goes into a store he would normally avoid because he knows I'd really like to shop there, is that pity? Is watching a movie I wouldn't normally care to see because he wants to see it pity? I don't know anyone who would say so, so why is sex so different? Sure it's not ideal if the person isn't attracted to you, but don't degrade it as though it has no meaning.

Is the major distinction between pity sex vs. sex to make someone happy even if it's not their first choice, is that pity sex has no love behind it, and the motive is something like "...Fine... I'll give you sex so you'll stop whining about it..."? Or is pity technically a form of love, although a condescending kind at that?

However, I've also heard it's a matter of perception, like in the case of people who want for their partner to desire and enjoy sex as much as they do, else they feel their partner is just giving them sex out of pity.

Good question as to why compromise on sex is seen so differently from other compromises. My guess is because many asexuals can't get much, or anything out of sex directly, so there may be the assumption that pity must be the only reason why an asexual (or anyone else who happens to not be sexually attracted to their partner) would go through with it.

Edited by Aqua-ace

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JDP

<snip>Is the major distinction between pity sex vs. sex to make someone happy even if it's not their first choice, is that pity sex has no love behind it, and the motive is something like "...Fine... I'll give you sex so you'll stop whining about it..."?<snip>

That may be how the sexual spouse feels is the motivation of the asexual spouse in having sex.

That wouldn't be why I would want sex with my wife. My goal would be to give her pleasure, which would give me pleasure (although not sexual pleasure). However, I think she, like a lot of other sexual wives, wouldn't feel good about that.

It's like the knowledge that I'm not "into it" forms a mental block in her mind that keeps her from enjoying the sex.

Does that make sense?

<snip>However, I've also heard it's a matter of perception, like in the case of people who want for their partner to desire and enjoy sex as much as they do, else they feel their partner is just giving them sex out of pity.<snip>

Right.

<snip>Good question as to why compromise on sex is seen so differently from other compromises. My guess is because many asexuals can't get much, or anything out of sex directly, so there may be the assumption that pity must be the only reason why an asexual (or anyone else who happens to not be sexually attracted to their partner) would go through with it. <snip>

Exactly.

It's a dilemma for me. Right now I can't even talk about it with her.

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Philiarocks

Asexjoe, perhaps the fact that there are no sexuals posting here about their compromises is partly due to sample bias. AVEN is primarily a place for aces, after all. But if you head over to the forum for sexual partners, you'll meet some wonderful people who do compromise for their ace partners, and of course some who don't. Maybe you could encourage your wife to have a look there? Just an idea.

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JDP

Oh god no. I wouldn't do that. That would open a big can of worms.

So far I know of only two married sexual women here who are with asexual husbands. One isn't happy and the other one... I dunno. I can't really tell.

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Einy

Oh god no. I wouldn't do that. That would open a big can of worms.

So far I know of only two married sexual women here who are with asexual husbands. One isn't happy and the other one... I dunno. I can't really tell.

In the 'for sexual partners' forum, there are (or were) many more sexual wives with asexual husbands or partners. However, it seems, they are quite rarely happy.

And I understand why you wouldn't point your wife there, if I were asexual I wouldn't point my partner there either.

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JDP

One question I would ask all the sexual/asexual couples is: if they had the choice to do it all over again, would they?

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alliace

Well, in hindsight, I'm aware that my (ex)marriage was sexual-asexual (him-me) although I didn't at the time. Would I do it all over again - honestly, no. I take it as a learning experience and I did learn A LOT and we do remain friends at some level, which I wouldn't walk away from. But would I sign up for the relationship knowing how much pain and confusion and self-doubt I would experience in the next 10 years? Nah...

Now that I look at the question in context, perhaps you're asking about people who have found ways to negotiate the sexual/non-sexual challenges...

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JDP

Well, I'm testing the assumption that "compromise" is, to the sexual, making the best of a bad situation and something they wish they could have foreseen before committing to the asexual partner.

I'm also guessing that in most of the marriages that involve a sexual married to an asexual, the asexual thought in the beginning s/he was sexual.

I could probably count on one hand how many California sexuals knowingly marry asexuals.

When I think of all the times I've heard sexual "chemistry" or "intimacy" called the "glue that holds a marriage together," I want to vomit.

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fennnnario

<snip>Is the major distinction between pity sex vs. sex to make someone happy even if it's not their first choice, is that pity sex has no love behind it, and the motive is something like "...Fine... I'll give you sex so you'll stop whining about it..."?<snip>

That may be how the sexual spouse feels is the motivation of the asexual spouse in having sex.

That wouldn't be why I would want sex with my wife. My goal would be to give her pleasure, which would give me pleasure (although not sexual pleasure). However, I think she, like a lot of other sexual wives, wouldn't feel good about that.

It's like the knowledge that I'm not "into it" forms a mental block in her mind that keeps her from enjoying the sex.

Does that make sense?

<snip>However, I've also heard it's a matter of perception, like in the case of people who want for their partner to desire and enjoy sex as much as they do, else they feel their partner is just giving them sex out of pity.<snip>

Right.

<snip>Good question as to why compromise on sex is seen so differently from other compromises. My guess is because many asexuals can't get much, or anything out of sex directly, so there may be the assumption that pity must be the only reason why an asexual (or anyone else who happens to not be sexually attracted to their partner) would go through with it. <snip>

Exactly.

It's a dilemma for me. Right now I can't even talk about it with her.

The thing is, for a lot of sexuals, sex in a romantic relationship isn't just about the physical sensations. Otherwise, we could just masturbate. But when you're sexually attracted to someone, and they are to you, there's an amazing connection and it's the only thing that can satisfy my need for closeness. Unfortunately, that makes it so an Ace just can never sexually satisfy people like that. I don't know what kind of compromise would work, it basically depends on the couple. I just don't like this one-sided conversation, especially in a pinned thread about not blaming people for how their orientation works. It's not that sexuals don't understand that an ace partner would be doing it (us, lol) out of love and the desire to make us happy, it's that sex with someone who isn't into it is just as bad as no sex at all.

Also, to asexjoe specifically, I would appreciate it if you stopped generalizing people based on gender. I'm a man, and I feel the same way as you claim women feel. It has nothing to do with gender, it's just how a person views sex and what it means to them.

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