A(gender)vengers Assemble!

[Andiamo]

Hi Dodec! Thanks for the welcome cake! :cake:

[Luftschlosseule]

Do you guys know the card game Munchkin? It's like a fantasy RPG, with dungeons and monsters.

You start as a human level 1 of your own gender. The gender is important, because there are monsters that react differently or items that only one gender can use. There is a curse that switches your gender to the opposite.

Two days ago I realised that I need to include non-binary. Yes, I could include agender, but I think that including non-binary is simpler and includes more players. Since it has to be balanced, I am thinking that non-binary people get all the boni from items, but also all the bad things from the monsters because they are confused since they only know binary genders and simply attack.

So I have two questions that need to be solved: In the starter set is a weapon for men and a weapon for women. Is it enough that non-binaries can use both or should there be a non-binary only weapon?

And what happens if you get the gender-swap curse? In theory, nothing should happen. It feels right this way. But: If this curse has no power, it would be overpowering to create a non-binary weapon.

Since this is Munchkin, and curses are meant to be felt and are meant to hurt and have you re-evalue your stats, it would also make sense if the gender-swap curse would change you. One could arrange the genders in a circle and you switch to the next one clockwise: man -> non-binary -> woman.

This would also result so that every player, even the cis ones, would be non-binary. Or, to be precise, their munchkins, their characters. And this is the aim of the curse.

Of course, you have to know the other players before playing to know if including non-binary would first lead to frustrating discussions.

What do you guys think?

[Wayfarer]

Do you guys know the card game Munchkin? It's like a fantasy RPG, with dungeons and monsters.

You start as a human level 1 of your own gender. The gender is important, because there are monsters that react differently or items that only one gender can use. There is a curse that switches your gender to the opposite.

Two days ago I realised that I need to include non-binary. Yes, I could include agender, but I think that including non-binary is simpler and includes more players. Since it has to be balanced, I am thinking that non-binary people get all the boni from items, but also all the bad things from the monsters because they are confused since they only know binary genders and simply attack.

So I have two questions that need to be solved: In the starter set is a weapon for men and a weapon for women. Is it enough that non-binaries can use both or should there be a non-binary only weapon?

And what happens if you get the gender-swap curse? In theory, nothing should happen. It feels right this way. But: If this curse has no power, it would be overpowering to create a non-binary weapon.

Since this is Munchkin, and curses are meant to be felt and are meant to hurt and have you re-evalue your stats, it would also make sense if the gender-swap curse would change you. One could arrange the genders in a circle and you switch to the next one clockwise: man -> non-binary -> woman.

This would also result so that every player, even the cis ones, would be non-binary. Or, to be precise, their munchkins, their characters. And this is the aim of the curse.

Of course, you have to know the other players before playing to know if including non-binary would first lead to frustrating discussions.

What do you guys think?

I almost quit playing this game because of this exact problem. At the time, I proposed everyone roll the die at the start of the game to determine 'gender'.

Somewhere on AVEN I had a discussion with a couple others about how we could improve the rules to account for differences of gender. At the time, we game up with the following. We had two versions:

Munchkin gender rules to combat the Munchkin equivalent of gender dysphoria

Agender/Bigender:

After I started identifying as agender, I invented house rules for how gendered cards affect me. At the start of the game, I am agender. I can't use gender-specific cards and all gendered effects don't affect me. If a gender switch card is played on me, I am bigender, and suffer every gendered penalty and bonus that goes my way. Other players complain when this helps me, of course, but that's Agender Privilege for you.

Genderfluid:

At the start of your turn every round, before you do anything else, you roll the die to determine your gender.

1 - Everything is terrible. Gendered penalties affect you and bonuses don't.

2 - You're bigender. All gendered effects affect you.

3 - You're agender. No gendered effects affect you.

4 - You are male and are treated by the game as such.

5 - You are female and are treated by the game as such.

6 - Everything is awesome. Gendered bonuses affect you and penalties don't.

Other players can see what you roll each turn and get these rules explained at the beginning of the game, but if they can't remember what you rolled afterwards or what that number means, you can lie. If the sex swap card is played on you, you must instantly reroll your gender (you can wind up with the same one, though) and you take -5 in the next combat because reasons.

Yes, this is all purposefully kind of confusing - it's important to get the full genderfluid experience.

I found these 'rules' on my computer somewhere, I'd saved them when we created them, suspecting I might want to use them again.

I can't recall who originally came up with the rules, I just know that it wasn't me. Credits go to whomever did come up with this.. was it Dodec, or Heart? If anyone knows who it was, please claim your creation!

The 'non-binary' option Luftschlosseule is describing looks a bit like the agender/bigender version we built. I personally think adding special 'non-binary' weapons would be difficult, it would involve changing the game, adding cards to the deck. While that in itself is not a bad thing, it might be a bit more complicated to add them.

We could also write to the people who designed the game, and propose they allow for a non-binary option ;)

[Dodecahedron314]

This wasn't my idea, but my dorm plays a lot of Munchkin, and because we generally make sure to play it for maximum hilarity anyway rather than the game making any sort of sense, I'm very tempted to try adding this in next time we play. Or perhaps if we ever play it in one of the queer groups on campus, which I feel would be rather less weirded out by it (I'm still the only trans person in my dorm, after all).

I'm honored that I'm thought of as creative enough to come up with something like this, though :D

[Dodecahedron314]

Double post

[Luftschlosseule]

In on add-on I have there are blank cards and I think they are meant to built your own cards.

Thank you for your input! As I was posting this, I was afraid that nobody would like the topic and now I am thrilled!
I have to think about it and ask the guys whom I play with.

[Heart]

Hey everyone. I have been woefully absent from AVEN while my home internet got unexpectedly cut out at the beginning of November, so I'm sorry about that. I just got it back, so I'm catching up as fast as the slow AVEN will let me. But I wanted to come here first and foremost and offer my ear. To all the Americans and people living in America who feel a cocktail of emotions right now, who wonder at the place of genderqueer and trans people in the coming years, I am here to listen. I am here to support in any way I can.

AVEN PMs aren't working very well for me. I haven't been able to open them lately (the new server is on it's way...). So if you want to chat, please do reach out to me. Just, I can't guarantee I'll be able to open PMs on AVEN (even if they say they are "read", sometimes they just won't load). So... if you want to chat, quote this post and I'll pay attention in this thread, and everywhere I can. We'll find a way to chat privately, if you want, or we can find a place to chat collectively.

You are all important. Some battles may be harder for the next little while than they needed to be, but that doesn't mean we've lost them. We're all here for each other. By being here, you have a whole world-wide network. We care about you. You aren't alone.

:cake:

[Heart]

Hehe. Wayfarer, I don't think I was the one to write the final version (I think that was Kappamaki actually?), but I was definitely the person to inspire the need for a genderfluid option! I drafted some rules, they went through iterations, and we had plenty of fun with them somewhere on a thread in here.... somewhere ^_^ Does this make me part of the Munchkin history now? ;)

[Luftschlosseule]

Uargs. Since the options for the unread content don't work at the moment, I peeked in Hot Box and... I don't know.
Just because you don't feel a thing, and nobody you knows feels it, then it has to be nonexistent, right? Oh, wait, that's the reason why asexuality is so unknown. Ups.

I am a bit on edge at the moment. My doc found a malfunction in my heart and wednesday I've got an appointment with a specialist. Then it will be decided if and when they will operate on me. My dsyphoria is non-existing at the moment, because of a change in medication my heart hurts and I am too tired to do anything. I am lying down and playing Pokémon. But I am a little afraid of the stay at hospital, the first one after discovering I am agender. ...and because I am afraid of hospitals in general.
And thanks to being at home and not being able to think and work this semester is over for me already and my education will take another full year because Assyriology and Egyptology is so small that I'll have to wait a full semester for the courses.

[iff]

Hi luftschlosseule, sorry about your medical problems (I've seen a couple of speciality lately due to skin and eye lid problems).

Egyptology is something I like and have an interest in. Sorry that this has prolonged your education.

[Luftschlosseule]

Likewise! As much as I love diversity, it wouldn't be bad to be healthy.

Egyptology is not what I wanted to study, it was meant as a fill-in while waiting for another place to be free, but I totally fell in love with it. <3
We just opened a local exhibit with an Egyptian mummy at the local Museum of Archeology, to show the newly restaurated mummy and casket, and now people tell their stories with this mummy. It belongs to a school and it appears that the pupils wanted to arrange to mummy for an own exhibition and since the head was kind of loose, it fell off and some jerk stole it. That's why "our" mummy has no head.
... see, that's what happens when I start to talk about it. I can't shut up, and that's a sure sign that it's the right thing for me.

Personally, I have no problem with taking a bit longer for my education, but money sucks.
I am chronically ill besides and have no capacity for working for money.
Don't like to think about it when I can't change anything at the moment, so I'll go back to Pokémon.

[Andiamo]

I spent my Thanksgiving break at a friend's house. Overall it was really fun and I had a good time, except for one little problem: I have never been so frequently misgendered in my memory. It felt like every other sentence that was said about me had some reference to me being a girl. I am fortunate enough not to have a lot of dysphoria, but there was one evening when it got bad enough that when I changed out of the clothes that make my chest look flatter and into pajamas and put my hair down, looking at my reflection nearly brought me to tears. 

 

I'm back on campus now, though, and I spent the whole drive back singing mostly the male parts of various musicals while my friend sang the female ones, so I'm doing much better now.

[Mychemicalqpr]

13 hours ago, Luftschlosseule said:

Uargs. Since the options for the unread content don't work at the moment, I peeked in Hot Box and... I don't know.
Just because you don't feel a thing, and nobody you knows feels it, then it has to be nonexistent, right? Oh, wait, that's the reason why asexuality is so unknown. Ups.

I am a bit on edge at the moment. My doc found a malfunction in my heart and wednesday I've got an appointment with a specialist. Then it will be decided if and when they will operate on me. My dsyphoria is non-existing at the moment, because of a change in medication my heart hurts and I am too tired to do anything. I am lying down and playing Pokémon. But I am a little afraid of the stay at hospital, the first one after discovering I am agender. ...and because I am afraid of hospitals in general.
And thanks to being at home and not being able to think and work this semester is over for me already and my education will take another full year because Assyriology and Egyptology is so small that I'll have to wait a full semester for the courses.

Yeah, I know.  I was really tempted to go to that topic and point out exactly what you just said, but... I realized I would likely just be talking to air. Better to just ignore that until it dies down. I can't personally relate to the heart problems, but that sounds terrible, and I get being scared of hospitals. Hugs. 

Don't know how I missed the stuff about munchkin until now.  I love munchkin!  For some reason, the gender/sex mechanic doesn't bother me too much.  I guess because it's liable enough to change that it stopped feeling like more than a mechanic. I still love the idea of creating something more inclusive (and even more chaotic) though. I might try it sometime.     

[Dodecahedron314]

Best wishes for getting through the hospital all right, @Luftschlosseule. It's so cool that you're studying Egyptology, though! I really enjoyed reading about it when I was a kid, and it's great that you worked out what you want in life like that. 

 

In other news, I said so many things about not understanding why gender is a thing while I was "home" for Thanksgiving that I'm kind of surprised that my mom *hasn't* asked if I'm trans yet.  I feel like I'll eventually wind up coming out through apathy at this rate.

[Luftschlosseule]

Thank you, guys. (:

@Andiamo , do you have a favourite musical?

[Andiamo]

3 hours ago, Luftschlosseule said:

Thank you, guys. (:

@Andiamo , do you have a favourite musical?

It's really hard to choose a favorite, but right now it's probably Into the Woods. Probably. I kind of just love musicals in general (unless they're particularly bad). Do you have a favorite, or any recommendations?

[Luftschlosseule]

33 minutes ago, Andiamo said:

It's really hard to choose a favorite, but right now it's probably Into the Woods. Probably. I kind of just love musicals in general (unless they're particularly bad). Do you have a favorite, or any recommendations?

Aaah, I still need to watch that.
One of my favourites is the Little Shop of Horrors.

A long time I thought musicals were boring, until we had a great music teacher with whom we watched and analyzed The West Side Story, Porgi and Bess, Jesus Christ Superstar. I love the Rocky Horror Picture Show, but I still need to get further into it.
One problem is that around here people tend to translate the songs when you watch it, both in theatre and on television. And you can't translate rhymes properly, so everything gets awkward...

[Guest]

Did someone mention musicals???? I love musicals!! I have quite a list of favorites here.The lion king, Saturday night fever, Tarzan, Beauty and the beast, Annie, Starlight Express just to name a few. I don't always like it when they translate everything in musical but the singers are so good that it doesn't really matter.

Ah it has been a while since i visited this thread

*Waves*

[Andiamo]

We did West Side Story at my high school! I love that show. Little Shop of Horrors is really good, too! I did a scene from it in my drama class last year. A few others that I really like are Next to Normal, Jekyll and Hyde, Fiddler on the Roof, Wicked, and Hamilton, though out of those I have only been able to see performances of Wicked and Fiddler so far.

 

It makes sense that translating musicals would be kind of difficult. It's nearly impossible to capture the original intention of the lines while keeping the meter and rhyme.

[Luftschlosseule]

But to be fair, translated musicals are not as bad as translated Shakespeare. *shudders*
I saw Wicked, and really loved the stage, costumes, make-up and melody, but the texts were awful. I always am in for the story and the language, that's why movie adaptations of books usually don't work for me, or why I view them as only happening to have the same story and characters.

I played at an amateur theatre group for a few years, and now I am in awe of actors in musicals. Acting, singing and dancing! And looking as if it were easy!

I thought a lot about acting in theatre in the last weeks, because I reviewed when I have dysphoria and when not, and I realised that it didn't matter what I wore for theatre. I knew it was not supposed to be me, nobody would think it's me or my choice. I always felt very, very, very comfortable in the costumes - although they were old and smelly, because theatre. :D

[Andiamo]

I've noticed the same thing regarding dysphoria and costumes! As long as I'm in character, I'm fine wearing whatever they put me in. I even enjoy it! Just day-to-day, though, not so much.

[Carsonspire]

Hi everyone. Just poking my head in here. 

Agender internal identity, assumed to be woman by the outside world. Most days I know who I am, regardless of what other people assume. Except for those days when I don't. Then I get sad and don't see the point of even trying to exist in this world. Asexual, agender, queer non-binary feminist. Spaces where I can openly be all of these things are exceedingly rare. (Can you tell today has been one of those harder days?) 

I'm glad you're all here. 87 pages so far: what should I know about this thread?

[Heart]

Welcome Carsonspire!

This thread is just a place to hang out, so you can make of it what you will. It's a place of support, a place of fun, a place of discussion, a place of imaginary librarians, tea, and comfy chairs. And the odd gremlin. Watch out for the librarians, I hear they can be nasty ;)

The most important thing though is that you're welcome here. I'm sorry you're having one of those bad days. Would some warm tea and cake help?

*brings over freshly brewed loose-leaf tea of your favourite kind and a piece of your favourite *

[Luftschlosseule]

Huhu. (:
I find this thread great if I have had a day like you had. Hope this helps you, too.

 

Wait, the librarians are imaginary? We should change that.

[Heart]

Yeah, that's my fault. I accidentally multiplied by i somewhere... my bad. I swear I had another i around here somewhere though, if only I could find it I could fix this whole conundrum...

*wanders off searching*

[Dodecahedron314]

Well, it depends on the sort of librarians we're talking about. Just regular librarians are fine, but if they're Librarians* (the ones referred to a few pages ago when this thread got...interesting :P ), it might be best to leave them as imaginary.

(* The capital-L Librarians are a Welcome to Night Vale reference. Let's just say they're not the human kind that helps you find books.)

[Luftschlosseule]

They're also a Discworld reference, are they not? 'Cause of L-Space they're everywhere! And then there are the The Quest librarians as well... and don't forget Madame Pince.
I swear I've seen peanut shells somewhere.

[AspieAce]

**Joins** Hiya do you think there are more agender Avenites than other minorities it seems to be a higher proportion I wondered whether this had something to do with femininity and masculinity being sexualised. 

[Andiamo]

Hi!

 

I have no idea for others, but I do feel like that was a bit of a factor for me. It might contribute to my discomfort with my body.

[Ianjthorn]

Hello. Also new. 

Discovered my gender identity like a month back and does now comfortably label myself as agender and neutrois. 

I think it's interesting how I came to question my gender so late in my life. At first it made me very confused. But I'm excited to be on this journey, though also a little horrified. Dysphoria is so annoying and the idea that people will continue missgendering me is scary. 

I'm hoping to get to know you all!