Marr Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Hi. I've just stumbled into your community space following on from reading a comment about a physically asexual being on the Halfbakery, and wondered if anyone here happens to be, or have links to information about this variant of asex humanity? Halfbakery Article: http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Anti-unrequ...drug#1029256939 [search page for 'Toby'] Link to post Share on other sites
quarridors Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Try searching for 'intersex'. Intersex is the umbrella term for all the sexes (ie genitals, chromosomes etc) which are not male or female. I know of intersex people whose genital area is 'just smooth skin'. It should be noted that Toby seems to be genderqueer/non-gendered, intersex /and/ asexual. Being any one of those doesn't lead to being the others. Personally I am non-gendered (and androgynous) and asexual but not intersex. There are many sexual and gendered intersex people and many gendered and binary sexed asexuals. Also 'physical asexuality' would suggest things like asexual reproduction... it's probably better to use terms like 'sex-less'. Although I'd prefer to let the intersex people to choose their own labels. Hope this is vaguely helpful, Oh and you might like this website: http://www.chaparraltree.com/raq/ and this by the same author on intersex: http://sexuality.org/l/transgen/intvoca.html Nat. Link to post Share on other sites
Marr Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 Thanks for the links and language primer.. I'll stick to words based on 'sex' and 'gender' to keep distinctions clear hereon. I tried to use the 'a-' prefix where it seemed to fit because my experience in other fields is that people generally find it less pejorative to be labelled 'a-thing' than 'un-thing' or 'thing-less'. Eg: Atheist, ungodly, godless. I'm still not clear on how to use these words to refer to someone like Toby, though. Asexually intersex? > [Technical Terms] .. Being any one of those doesn't lead to being the others. I'm hoping that no-one has been dealt the hand of being gendered without any physical sex. > Also 'physical asexuality' would suggest things like asexual reproduction... Something which I believe will be quite common in humanity's mid-term future. It would be a tragedy to allow nature to deny this to those who richly deserve a place in our genetic heritage, but have no sexual option. Link to post Share on other sites
quarridors Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Yep. The important thing to remember is that 'sexuality' refers to who you're sexually attracted towards (men, women, both, etc) and therefore 'asexuality' implies not being sexually attracted to anyone. Even in a biological sense, asexual beings don't have sex with each other to reproduce, it's not so much about sex (ie the genitals), it's about the sexuality (ie the intercourse, or in this case, lack of it). Excluding transsexuality, words relating to humans with 'sexuality' in them are, unsurprisingly, referring to sexuality not sex. Male, female and intersex are sexes. Gay, straight, bi, asexual etc are sexualities. Man, woman, androgyne etc are genders. It's really useful to distinguish those from each other and from sexual acts. I'm still not clear on how to use these words to refer to someone like Toby, though. Asexually intersex? The word for someone with no sex is 'neuter'. Toby also happened to asexual (not sexual) and genderless. I'm hoping that no-one has been dealt the hand of being gendered without any physical sex. Actually the intersex people I know with a completely smooth genital area were sexual, and found that smooth skin a very potent erogenous area. There's an awful lot more to sex than penetration. Something which I believe will be quite common in humanity's mid-term future. It would be a tragedy to allow nature to deny this to those who richly deserve a place in our genetic heritage, but have no sexual option. Actually it's my personal opinion that infertile people would benefit the species much more through adoption. Maybe I have a more holistic perspective. I'm not sure how the genetic hertiage benefits from cloning -- wouldn't that just keep the gene pool stagnant (or at least keep that particular person's genes constantly present unchanged (assuming that the neuter/intersex would be passed on in the genes and wasn't caused by hormones in the womb or some other developmental event))? Link to post Share on other sites
Marr Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Ah. Yes, of course, I can't just tag things onto the word 'sex' and expect it to work, it's far too loaded down for that. Okay, let's see if I have this straight: (Rimshot) Gender - Biological equipment, inherent reproductive capabilities. Sex - Social appearance, role, identity. Sexuality - Carnality, classical forth circuit imprint. The aspect which has an 'a-' prefix for most regulars of this forum. Good to know that being neuter rarely, if ever, implies a lack of nerve endings. Strikes me, then, that everyone has a gender and sex, we just happen to not have words for many of them. > Actually it's my personal opinion that infertile people would benefit the species much more through adoption. Maybe I have a more holistic perspective. Adoption is of great benefit to the parents and children in question, and to society generally, and the propogation of strong psychologies, which needs no genetic relationship, is certainly of far more benefit than simple breeding, but it's still an unnecessary loss to abandon the genes of an otherwise adaptive person just because they happen to be infertile, for whatever reason. > I'm not sure how the genetic hertiage benefits from cloning -- wouldn't that just keep the gene pool stagnant (or at least keep that particular person's genes constantly present unchanged? Not necessarily. We know the mechanism by which people mix and match their genetics, so it should be possible to clone (for example) on a many to one basis. Of course, you could argue that cloning would then no longer be asexual in any meaningful sense, but that's just one, almost-natural option among endless possiblities for artificial variation and evolution. So long as we recognise that stagnation and uniformity are bad, dangerous and ultimately boring, I trust that we will find ways to avoid them. Link to post Share on other sites
quarridors Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Gender - Biological equipment, inherent reproductive capabilities. Nope you've mixed up sex and gender. Remember that bodies have sex, people have gender. Sex is things like sexual organs, sex chromosomes, sex hormones, primary and secondary sexual characteristics and so on. Gender is things like gender identity, gender role and so on. Not necessarily. We know the mechanism by which people mix and match their genetics, so it should be possible to clone (for example) on a many to one basis. Well then that's artificial sexual reproduction rather than artificial asexual reproduction (using the scientific meanings of the words... asexual reproduction involves one parent's genes, sexual involves a combination. So it's really just a fertility treatment question and not so much about helping intersex or asexual people, more about helping all people who can't reproduce through intercourse. Anyway, I hope you're vaguely clear on things now :) Nat. Link to post Share on other sites
Marr Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Dammit. That'll teach me to skip read terminology definitions. Okay: Sex physical, gender social, sexuality psychological. I thought something was off key there. Link to post Share on other sites
Pituitarygal Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 I just found this site, while doing research. I can tell you there are some people, who, like myself, are or were physically asexual. I've had a pituitary tumor for over 25 years, and my hormones were completely out of sync. As a result, I had NO desire for anything, romantic, physical, psychological or otherwise with EITHER sex. Only after a change of medication, when my hormones finally came back to within normal limits 3 years ago, did I seek companionship. I spent 25 years as a virtual "asexual" person. Now I'm having experiences I never DREAMED I'd have...and I'm happy this way. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
lizardbuddy Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Sex is things like sexual organs, sex chromosomes, sex hormones, primary and secondary sexual characteristics and so on. Gender is things like gender identity, gender role and so on. Yep.. I like to say "Gender is between your ears, sex is between your legs" :D Please, no one take this the wrong way.. it's just how I tell the difference between sex and gender. And gender identity is brain sex. Ok Ok, I admit I'm still learning all this stuff but I'm doing pretty good comparing I've only been studying since I've had the internet, which is about a year :P Take care yall! -LizardBuddy Link to post Share on other sites
lizardbuddy Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 btw, this is an interesting site if you wanted to know more about trans and gender identity.. http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0106.htm and here's one on intersex and gender.. http://www.glbt.pilbara.net/intersex.html I think you all will find the last one very interesting -LB Link to post Share on other sites
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