Surgical modification (nullification)

[fluffy]

This topic may make some people pretty squeamish, but I've seen several references to surgical nullification on here so I figure some people on here may have actually gone through with it.

I've been pretty interested in gender nullification surgery for a while (probably since I was a teenager), and although I've found whatever information I can online, it's fairly sparse and mostly on the erotica side.

Has anyone here had it done? Did they go through a surgeon, or through more "black-market" venues? What did it cost, how hard was it to get accepted for the procedure, and what was recovery like? What about the results - was the result a nice smoothness, or were there still bumps/stubs left over? What about sensitivity?

Obviously I'm going to make *absolutely sure* this is what I want before I go through with it, though my OEM bits are definitely not the right ones for me (and I don't think a simulacrum of the other kind are right for me either).

That said, I don't want to be completely gender-neutral; I do want breasts (because they're cute!), and I see myself as at least somewhat female anyway. But sex-wise, I'd rather just be free of something that I'm not.

Anyway. I'd be grateful for any insight anyone can spare. Thanks!

[-V-]

Tried www.eunuch.org ? Someone there might know more.

[fluffy]

Eh, isn't eunuch.org more of a fetishy erotic-fiction archive than a source of information for people considering castration? That's what it's seemed like every time I've browsed it, and the stories are seldom about nullification (and the ones which are all frame it in a fetishistic point of view, which is definitely NOT what I'm looking for).

[Silly Green Monkey]

There are many threads about nullification, searching for "null" will probably net you several threads with useful links.

[fluffy]

I did, that was my first step actually. It didn't turn up anything aside from "many people here think about it" and the like.

[-V-]

Did you post on their boards asking if anyone knew anything helpful?

[borrowedTime]

I've often seen people post links to articles on bmezine.com with information about this. It seems to have a wealth of information and personal accounts (most of which completely terrify me :shock: (only because they're so intriguing, of course...)).

Can you really get a proper surgeon to do it? I didn't think it's a standard medical procedure (unless there's some other health reason for it to be done).

[fluffy]

Again, eunuch.org comes across as exactly the wrong kind of place to try to find actual useful information about this. I definitely don't like the vibe I get from it, in any case.

I used to peruse bmezine regularly for this kind of stuff, but back then they didn't have a general-purpose forum, just the "question a day" thing. I'll check them out again... thanks for the reminder.

[Kombucha2000]

another keyword you could do a search for is "neutrois".

[fluffy]

Yeah, I came across that keyword while searching on 'null' but it didn't seem to come up with anything more. Maybe I mistyped it before though. :)

[Dippy]

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[fluffy]

Well, yes, I know all that already. I'd actually been seeing a therapist for a while a few years ago, though I stopped seeing her because I kept on feeling like we were running in circles and she was refusing to understand me and where I was coming from.

However, some people have managed to do it through reputable American surgeons, and at least one of the Thai SRS surgeons lists nullification as something they'll do as well.

A lot of SRS is not after "many years" though. The minimum requirement is just one year of "real life training" and even then there's a lot of wiggle room for the truly determined.

Anyway, I'm 26, this is something I've felt that I've wanted since I was 15, and it's not for fetishistic reasons nor is it coupled with any sort of obsessive-compulsive "I need to get rid of this stuff NOW" thing.

[Dippy]

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[Friendly]

I haven't done any research on this subject, but if I could get it done safely and without too much annoying counseling, I think I probably would. Honestly, some of the bits and pieces I have are just plain annoying to me, and I have absolutely no plans to use them for what nature designed them to do. So I'd love to get rid of them if I had the opportunity.

[fluffy]

For me it's more than just not wanting to use them. I don't have much gender identity, but what I have is more on the female side than the male side. But there's not enough on the female side for me to want to switch from one incorrect thing to another.

I also have had very little libido all my life, and a bit over a month ago I started taking grey-market estrogen (didn't dive into it head-first or anything; I've been researching it for the last 6 years and wanted to go legitimately but, again, couldn't get the therapist I was seeing to understand where I was coming from), and that's just made what little libido I had go away entirely. I don't miss it.

(I'm also starting to grow breasts, which I'm also happy about. Now I just need to get around to laser hair removal or something, and I'll be a nice happy androgynous fluffy!)

[Friendly]

Me, too. No identification with the gender my body is + lack of libido = want to get rid of what I don't want/need to use.

[Neabsco]

Could you tell me why reputable surgeons wouldn't do nullification surgury?

[Hexpiral]

I think we all understand the concept of nullification, but what would the surgery be in practice? What would a man need to change to be null? Same for women.

Also, some body parts are either masculine or feminine. For example, if breasts are feminine and no breasts are masculine, what would be null? Genitals? Excretory apparatus? Other secondary gender characteristics?

[fluffy]

The Harry Benjamin Standards of Care specifically say to not recommend surgery or even hormonal treatment for people who don't plan on making a full transition both in terms of physical apparatus and "social gender role," whatever the hell that means. That was the issue I kept on figuratively butting heads against my therapist with -- she didn't want to do anything contrary to the HBSoC. Nor do many other psychologists, even ones who specialize in transgender stuff.

Also, one place where I'm different than most would-be neuters is that I do want breasts, and to be seen socially as female (just not sexually); when people call me "he" or "sir" it kinda infurates me, sorta. (I'd actually rather be called "it," honestly.) Even though I fully intend to continue to have "typically male" jobs (what with being predominantly a computer programmer). But that's just socially-constructed crap too; at the office I work at there's around 100 programmers and I'd say around 20 of them are women.

Stuff like this is why I always run into a wall when I try explaining things to people; "so you don't want female genitals, and you don't want to take on a female gender role, so how would you be any different aside from not being able to have kids?" Grr.