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Homosexuality and Religion


Daisy G.

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The Honey Bear

I was having a chat with my Christian friend about this the other day. Her feelings were that homosexuality is sinful, but it's also something the person can't help-- she compared it to the genetic disease she has. But she also said that everyone sins and just because you're gay doesn't mean you're going to go to hell; God looks at everyone on a one-to-one basis and looks at the bigger picture.

All the same, it made me sad. :( I said that even if homosexuality is genetic (which I believe is just a theory, anyway) it doesn't have to be a negative thing like a disease. Genetics determine our hair colour and eye colour; I've always thought being gay or straight was the same equivelent of being born with blond hair or ginger hair.

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Alan Degas

... my understanding is that the only true unforgivable sin which will result in God punishing anyone is denying Christ as Saviour...

The only unforgivable sin, mentioned in the bible, is to "blaspheme against The Holy Spirit".

LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven"

MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

...Too bad that my cousin and I dared each other to do that as kids, lol! :lol:

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... my understanding is that the only true unforgivable sin which will result in God punishing anyone is denying Christ as Saviour...

The only unforgivable sin, mentioned in the bible, is to "blaspheme against The Holy Spirit".

LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven"

MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

...Too bad that my cousin and I dared each other to do that as kids, lol! :lol:

This is really interesting, thank you. :) Based on your own personal judgement/experience within your own religious community, is this what most of your friends/family/acquaintances share as value of "unforgivable sin", or you have found that they consider others as well? (you are free not to answer if it is too personal, obviously :) )

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... my understanding is that the only true unforgivable sin which will result in God punishing anyone is denying Christ as Saviour...

The only unforgivable sin, mentioned in the bible, is to "blaspheme against The Holy Spirit".

LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven"

MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

...Too bad that my cousin and I dared each other to do that as kids, lol! :lol:

Ahhhh ... I guess that misunderstanding is the result of my evangelical upbringing ... thank you so much for the clarification.

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Christine L.S

As an Episcopalian in the US...my perception that the opinion of homosexuality is in a gray zone guarded by legal jargon. The acts within the United States are written that everyone is happy and nothing is officially said...sorta like whatever comes out of politicians' mouths. The decision therefore about homosexuality is left up to the individual congregation. It boils down to no official statement. Apparently...lesbians and gays can be a part of the congregation, but the acts say nothing about if their actions are allowed.

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is marriage between homosexuals allowed in the Episcopalian Church?

Depends on the congregation. If the congregation is a member of the integrity movement, they will do homosexual marriages even if the state does not allow them officially.

http://www.integrityusa.org/

Other congregations might not have a problem with homosexuality, but are not listed on integrity's website.

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And if yes, how is it perceived today from the religious community, as far as you can tell?

It usually depends on where the congregation is located. If they are located in a "liberal" area, probably homosexuality is okay. There are some exceptions to this geographic rule of course. It also depends on the age. The younger a member is, the more likely they are to not have a problem with homosexuality.

Of course...I am not a priest...so this is from a layperson.

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Woah! Lot's of interesting points here. I think I'll add my two cents.

While Revelation does say that homosexuals will go to hell, it never says that you should hate, discriminate, or hurt them at all. Instead, I believe you should simply say: "Hey, you know that the Bible doesn't seem to support your life style right? Oh, you don't care? Okie-dokie then, let's get on with it then." And that should be it.

As for asexuals, I haven't seen any place in the Bible that condemns it. And I think the whole void marriage thing is...not okay :( . So here's my chart:

Asexual + Sexual(?) = marriage is fine.

Older Sexual + Older Sexual = marriage is fine.

Infertile Person (Sexual or not) + Other person (Sexual, fertile, or neither)= marriage is fine.

It really shouldn't matter. Yes, we should have children at the right time, I think, but if you simply cannot, either due to sterility, age, or you just can't ah..."get it up" so to speak, be you male or female, I don't think God will send you to hell for not making babies. We have enough of them, really. So as long as you love the person, and you don't care the consequences, whatever they may be, than you can marry you dog, if that's what you really want :P !

Of course, while sex is to ehem "make babies" (that is the biological purpose), it is also something that Bible encourages couples to enjoy and do together. It's something to show love and encourage intimacy between them. Check Songs of Solomon, peeps! ;)

And I totally agree with the original post!

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Revelations says homosexuals will go to hell?? I have never seen that there, and I have read the book, chapter and verse, please.

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SorryNotSorry

And in this corner...

According to Haitian Voodoo, lesbians and gay men are victims of a practical joke played on them by God (demonstrating that He does have a sense of humor, hurtful though at times it may be). Erzuli Danto is the loa lesbians are instructed to turn to, and I forget which loa is supposed to represent gay men.

Modern Wicca, for the most part, seems to be ok with homosexuality... perhaps its practitioners find the implied notion that "sins can be genetically transmitted" to be preposterous. But kicking all the straights out of a coven so it'll be all-gay is a no-no.

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Guest member31022

Revelations says homosexuals will go to hell?? I have never seen that there, and I have read the book, chapter and verse, please.

Seconded, because I don't reckon it does.

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Modern Wicca, for the most part, seems to be ok with homosexuality... perhaps its practitioners find the implied notion that "sins can be genetically transmitted" to be preposterous. But kicking all the straights out of a coven so it'll be all-gay is a no-no.

While Wicca is highly sex-positive and generally quite accepting of alternate sexualities, most paths of modern Wicca are pretty massively heteronormative. There's huge significance layered onto male-female couplings with the whole Chalice-Athame ritual that has been a part of every Wiccan event I've witnessed. Heteronormativity is built into it in a way that even Christianity or Islam doesn't have.

But yes, most Pagans individually seem pretty tolerant and accepting of homosexuality. Except Heathens, but they're a bit of an exception in Pagan circles going by the books I've read. I've yet to see a proper Heathen sect though, possibly because I don't speak German. So all I have there is hearsay from a book describing it among various other branches of paganism.

Seconded, because I don't reckon it does.

Well, there's a comment about the "sexually immoral" or somesuch. But the term is poorly defined.

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Guest member31022
Seconded, because I don't reckon it does.

Well, there's a comment about the "sexually immoral" or somesuch. But the term is poorly defined.

Yeah, this is why I'm curious as to the particular quote they're referring too (oh, and actually, which Bible edition it's from too) since if something has been translated as 'homosexuals' it's a very poor translation, since homosexuality as we refer to it is a much more modern concept than people tend to remember.

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Peaceful & Happy

Well ia, aromatic and asexual and the bile gives me the ability to stay away from most sexuals by giving me an excuse...God is very kind and everyone has different issues to contend with. I have a friend who is a hermaphrodite, both sets of reproductive organs. Where would she fit in all this?

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Yeah, this is why I'm curious as to the particular quote they're referring too (oh, and actually, which Bible edition it's from too) since if something has been translated as 'homosexuals' it's a very poor translation, since homosexuality as we refer to it is a much more modern concept than people tend to remember.

Well, last I heard the argument spelled out, "sexually immoral" was supposedly a reference to one of those lists Paul gave, which tended to include a particular portmanteau that Paul appears to have made up in the first place, which is sometimes translated these days as "homosexuals". Of course, more accurate translations might be "those who lie with a man on a wife's bed", depending on how you reconstruct the portmanteau. This could refer to gay sex, or merely cheating on your wife with a man, or possibly to female adulterers. The term is, simply put, obscure - which itself is odd, since it's not like gay sex was an unknown concept to the Greeks, and Paul was writing in Greek. He would have had several available terms to refer to them, but chose a portmanteau of ambiguous meaning instead. Odd.

Personally, I favour a reference to cheating on your wife with a man. Even today, some try to argue that's not "cheating" because it doesn't "count" if it's not with a woman. Laying that to rest might have been sufficient motivation to invent a word to describe that situation, and include it in his lists of sexual immoralities.

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Not all Christians are against homosexuality. Some are pretty awesome about LGBTQ rights ^_^

And this is coming from somebody who has never been a Christian :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Institutionilized

*sigh* I must admit, this is a great debate :) Even if it is quite a mouthful to sit down and read. ^^"

My two cents on the matter is that if Christians are supposed to be all-loving, then they should love thy neighbor as thyself (sorta pseudo paraphrasing there). I was raised a Catholic (I'm an atheist/agnostic now), so I can't speak for any denomination besides Catholicism.

Since I'm a panromantic asexual, I kinda side that says that (if I believed still) God would not have a problem with homosexual people, or bisexual, or anything like that. I don't believe that God would create something that he despised so much he would want to be put to death. Of course, Catholicism doesn't interpret the Bible literally, so at least under the denomination I know, the Leviticus argument doesn't hold (although Catholicism will choose to interpret that literally as a sinful act. :rolleyes: ).

In my opinion, Christians who bash LGBTQ+ people and demonize them aren't behaving like true Christians. Yes, a lot of denominations believe that homosexuality is a sin, but most also believe that every single person is a sinner. They should be accepting and understanding. It's too bad that a lot of radical (because that's what they are, if they're demonizing the people themselves) church figures choose to voice their disagreement with homosexuality through vile, and hateful terms. It makes all Christians look bigoted.

That said, I think dismissing religion and faith as a whole is just as bad as dismissing asexuality, or homosexuality, or whatever other orientation you may have. People have done some horrible things in the the name of faith, but people will do horrible things in the name of just about anything. It doesn't make faith in itself wrong.

I LOVE this part of the OP's comment. <3 ^_^ And it basically sums up my stance on the matter. I know some Christians are wonderful people, understanding, and caring. I also know some that aren't so nice and caring. =/ But I think that since under the understanding that humans are sinners, I don't see a reason to be so angry about people expressing their love differently because they feel it. I'm a guy (biologically), and I've had crushes on women before; but the only person I feel I've ever loved (well, am still currently loving) was (is) male. I grew up understanding (this is probably a byproduct of growing up in Mississippi) that homosexual love didn't exist, and that it was just a lie that was concocted to spite God. Whether or not I choose to believe in God, I have felt love towards someone of the same sex. So that whole statement is wrong to me. :3

Not trying to start a debate, I just wanted to comment on this lovely thread~

~Institutionilized

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I fully support the rights of homosexuals I think bigotry against any group is absolutely ridiculous. As a Deist I believe the Divine Creator whoever made people the way they are and theres nothing wrong with it. More blood had been spilt in the name of God than anything else the contradictions the people who demonize others in the name of God and their persistence in trying to tell me how to live is a contributing factor to me becoming a Deist. by the way I mean no offence to anyone.

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  • 2 weeks later...
TheLinguist

Hope I don't get in trouble for necromancy but here goes...

To me, the Bible was written by men with vicious prejudices and cold hearts. Whatever they did not understand or saw as abnormal, they looked to eliminate it by stamping the words "God says..." over it. They did not understand God's love and just how great it is.

My great-grandmother, a woman who was born in the 1910's, was Catholic and should have been on the side of those who believed homosexuality was a sin or a psychotic disorder, fought for LGBTQ before it was even OK to. The story goes, though, that there was a musician who worked at the bar she and my great-grandfather ran who was gay. His family had him put in a sanitarium for shock therapy (this was during the '60s) and, right up until the day she died, my great-grandmother fought for him. There was nothing wrong with that man at all and she tried to help him in a world where she should have just turned a deliberately blind eye to what his own family was doing to him. She could have said it was "for his own good".

If those who are against homosexuality and use the Bible to defend their stance are so Christian, then they are blind to the true nature of God's love for us all. They don't know Christ as much as they think they do.

... God it's Sunday and I'm going on a total preaching rampage. o_o;; Sorry guys!

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