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Would anyone rather be euthanized than live in a nursing home?


Beachwalker

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Ah well, I agree. I think the thread started with the idea of elderly people who have something terminal, who would normally end up in a nursing home.

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CompassRose

I don't see how "appropriate supported living situations" are anything other than nursing homes by another name. Home care can be different, and better, but any caregiving institution will be a better or worse version of a nursing home.

I'm sure different people have different motivations that they find valid and appropriate for opposing euthanasia. But I believe an often unspoken motivation is peoples fear of death, and their fear of what happens after death. If you believe you only get one life, and when you die you are gone forever, that will greatly color how strongly you believe it is appropriate to cling to physical life. If you believe you only get one life, but when you die your soul will go on to eternal torment or joy, that will support a different perspective on how death should be approached. If, as I do, you believe we are all souls having one of multiple physical experiences, that will again change how you believe these end of life issues should be dealt with. Are there any other broad categories of belief I've forgotten?

The problem then (at least in the US) is that we aren't supposed to make laws based on our beliefs, except that people always bring their beliefs into this kind of thing. They may not acknowledge them in public where they can be discussed openly, but coded methods of presenting them do pop up. So how can rational discussion that accommodates the rights of people with such different beliefs be achieved when so few are willing to be honest about their beliefs, and perspective, and biases, and such? The answer so far has almost always been *I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and humming and refusing to hear the problem* till some "nut" like Kevorkian forces it into the public discourse. At least for a time.

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I'm not sure, but I'd probably prefer euthanasia, especially considering what my grandmother is going through right now.

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I would love to be able to spend out the rest of my days solving murder mysteries in the British countryside and going to various places on my nephew Raymond's dime, but I don't see that happening.

To me it has always been euthanasia > nursing home. I can't see me going to a very nice one of those which just leaves the bad ones, and being alone, that would be rough.

My grandmother passed a few years ago who suffered from Alzheimer's and I am constantly of the mind that if something like that should befall me I would certainly take my own life. I don't have much, but I have my mind and to lose that would be horrific.

A very interesting documentary on assisted suicide (sort of on topic) the suicide tourist

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Undecimilla

My Mum often says to me, "I never thought I'd end up with needing people to care for me," - and I usually reply, "I'm not 'people' I'm your daughter Mum." Having worked as a social worker I've seen altogether too many sad and bewildered old folk sitting around in nursing homes and I vowed that I'd never do that to my own Mum (My Dad died some years ago).

Just as a by the way my brothers are completely hopeless and plain just don't want to know. Other daughters I've talked to who are caring for their elderly Mums have told me much the same story when it comes to their own siblings. From my own observations men are quick to put their elderly parents into care, where as women will stick with looking after their parents almost to the bitter end. Anyone want to comment on that?

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My mum died in 2010 and had become more and more confused and unable to do anything very much. To be honest it was a release for her when it happened, she'd never come to terms with my father's death (1966) and basically had wanted to die for many years. I don't have a daughter and I certainly wouldn't want my son looking after me as I had to with my mum.

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The Great WTF

After having watched my father slowly die of Alzheimer's, I definitely would prefer to be euthanized than to live in a nursing home. Watching his intelligence, curiosity, and wit slowly drift away from him was heart breaking. When he started losing words, you could see how much it upset him, and when he started to become confused and disoriented, you could see the fear in his eyes. For this man who was so stable, so strong, so confident in every word and action, to find himself slipping up, losing words and time and memories for the first time in his 70 years, it must have been terrifying. I get the feeling it would terrify me, too, because I am so much like him.

Dad had me and my siblings. Among the 9 that lived close together, they managed to ensure he could stay at my brother's and live comfortably until he finally died, but I'm not going to have that and I don't want to live out those last years like he did. The idea of not having my curiosity, my imagination, my sharp tongue and wit terrifies me. If I do start to slip, I think I will find a way to quietly end my life before I am too far gone.

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I developed a neurological condition in my early 30's and have been in a wheelchair since 2005. I had hearing difficulties before but had normal speech until my condition developed. Now speaking is difficult and i get involuntary muscle movement.

Despite this I manage to live independently. I have an assistance dog, now reaching retirement age so going through application for another dog to take the strain of my older dog.

When I first got my condition I thought I didn't want to live like this and had decided I would wait until after my current dog had passed away before I decided to end my own life, as I couldn't leave her here distressed if she couldn't wake me up if I had tried to do anything, as I don't get visitors for weeks or months sometimes.

Recently I managed to improve my physical situation a little via a therapy that has worked for me reducing the spasms and giving me a little more control over movement. I've decided I can cope with things at this level, the thing I hate most is the thought of having to wait for social services to come in and dress me or been stuck in a nursing home cos I couldn't do it myself (again cos it involves intimate physical contact from a stranger) but with a Canine partner trained to help me with that job I could so I changed my mind and decided to go for another dog to take over the physical stuff so my older dog gets a nice retirement and the pampering she so deserves in her old age!

I'm hoping this decision will mean I don't have to face a nursing home for many years yet, if I can stay on top of things regarding how much I can physically do for myself with a bit of canine assistance!

JJ

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Beachwalker

I developed a neurological condition in my early 30's and have been in a wheelchair since 2005. I had hearing difficulties before but had normal speech until my condition developed. Now speaking is difficult and i get involuntary muscle movement.

Despite this I manage to live independently. I have an assistance dog, now reaching retirement age so going through application for another dog to take the strain of my older dog.

When I first got my condition I thought I didn't want to live like this and had decided I would wait until after my current dog had passed away before I decided to end my own life, as I couldn't leave her here distressed if she couldn't wake me up if I had tried to do anything, as I don't get visitors for weeks or months sometimes.

Recently I managed to improve my physical situation a little via a therapy that has worked for me reducing the spasms and giving me a little more control over movement. I've decided I can cope with things at this level, the thing I hate most is the thought of having to wait for social services to come in and dress me or been stuck in a nursing home cos I couldn't do it myself (again cos it involves intimate physical contact from a stranger) but with a Canine partner trained to help me with that job I could so I changed my mind and decided to go for another dog to take over the physical stuff so my older dog gets a nice retirement and the pampering she so deserves in her old age!

I'm hoping this decision will mean I don't have to face a nursing home for many years yet, if I can stay on top of things regarding how much I can physically do for myself with a bit of canine assistance!

JJ

Hi JJ

Welcome to Aven :cake:

I hope you are able to live indepantly for many years with the assistance of your dog. I love dogs they are remarkable animals and definitely deserving of the 'mans best friend' saying. The concern for your dog if you were to take your own life is commendable and it is tragic that people's options are so limited that these things are realities that need consideration.

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I think there's a lot to be said for assisted suicide and/or euthanasia. There's also a lot of potential for abuse, too. I think it's something that should be carefully controlled.

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I think there's a lot to be said for assisted suicide and/or euthanasia. There's also a lot of potential for abuse, too. I think it's something that should be carefully controlled.

I think that goes without saying, but it's as much a reason to not allow it as the potential of someone abusing their child is a reason to not allow people to have children. When someone has children, there's always a potential for abuse. But obviously that's frowned upon and controlled (when discovered).

With living wills, at least where I live, the witnesses can't be people who would benefit from the individual's death - as I understand it, not being a lawyer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'll take euthanasia every time.

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I would much rather go into a nursing home than become one of the increasing numbers of battered parents (no, my son isn't but it happens)

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Cookie Dough

There are many nursing homes that give enough sedatives to euthanize a person.Yet the medical staff who does this are able to live with themselves. I don't know how. I think it would be best to put an end to sedatives that are given to elder people or people who have heart issues or any other health issues that are affected by strong sedatives such as haldol and ativan to name a couple. The medical staff hands these deadly sedatives out to patients in hospitals as well as residents in nursing homes. This really needs to stop. When elders are given these they have been known to appear to have dementia and if they are given enough drugs they not only appear to be in the last stages of dementia they really can be in the last stages of life itself because these drugs do kill. They are very dangerous for elder people. If elder people were not getting these drugs then more people in nursing homes would be walking rather than using a wheel chair. I do not know why these deadly sedatives are even used at all. They will just damage a person and make an elder person deteriorate and die, elders are not the only ones who are affected, others who have certain health issues are also affected as well. Another thing that needs to change in nursing homes is if an elder person can use the restroom there is absolutely no reason for them to be using diapers as their bathroom. it is just easier for the staff which really upsets me. The staff drugs the residents and all they can do is sit in a wheel chair veg and use diapers. Diapers are used even if they can use the restroom and can walk on their own.At least they would be able to walk straight and use the restroom without falling if they were not drugged. I have actually heard staff say no use your diaper if the patient or resident wants to use the restroom. The staff cant let them since they are just like any other drunk person and will fall and can get hurt if they try to walk to use the restroom.Such a horrible thing to do to people. If enough people got involved there could be change so these terrible things would not be done to human beings.

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Cookie Dough

A few places have legalized euthanasia but not many and in some places where it was legalized it has been overturned. We don't tend to let animals suffer even though we have no way of knowing how they are actually suffering but we make decisions for them because it's considered the humane thing to do. Humans though who can verbalise and clarify their suffering and their wishes cannot legally choose or receive assistance to end their own lives in most places of the world. It doesn't make sense to me.

It isn't euthanasia (that's killing someone else). It's called assisted suicide, because the person themselves is given medication to commit suicide.

Animals are also euthanized because there is not enough room in the shelters.I think that a person who is taking up a bed in a hospital that is needed can also be euthanized.It is not legal but has been known to happen. If a doctor makes what the family would think as an educated guess about the quality of life of the patient then patient or family can do or encourage assisted suicide based on what the doctor says. That seems very risky. That is a good reason why I think it needs to stay out of the medical field. It could also become convenient not only to the medical staff but the family may want to use and encourage euthanasia as a way of inheriting from the patient if there is some kind of inheritance.That is another reason why I do not encourage or want euthanasia of any kind,the list goes on and on. Instead I worry about how we can enforce the law when euthanasia is done.

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Cookie Dough

My Mum often says to me, "I never thought I'd end up with needing people to care for me," - and I usually reply, "I'm not 'people' I'm your daughter Mum." Having worked as a social worker I've seen altogether too many sad and bewildered old folk sitting around in nursing homes and I vowed that I'd never do that to my own Mum (My Dad died some years ago).

Just as a by the way my brothers are completely hopeless and plain just don't want to know. Other daughters I've talked to who are caring for their elderly Mums have told me much the same story when it comes to their own siblings. From my own observations men are quick to put their elderly parents into care, where as women will stick with looking after their parents almost to the bitter end. Anyone want to comment on that?

I would take care of your mom you can get help if need be. Just keep her away from the powerful sedatives and she will have a much better life.

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Cookie Dough

I am pro-euthanasia for the most part...

I wouldn't want to end up like the guy from The Diving Bell and Butterfly. I'd definitely want to be dead before reaching that type of stage. (Great movie by the way.)

U live Ur life by what happens in a movie really?????

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Cookie Dough

Both of my grandfathers ended up in nursing homes against their will.

I don't need a doctor... I've been re-reading Final Exit and have decided on my method of dispatch if need be.

In some states in america there are laws that no matter what anyone says elders are allowed to stay in their homes and not be forced into a nursing home. I would like to get that law everywhere. I believe in freedom liberty and justice for all not just for those that are under a certain age.

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Cookie Dough

Yes, absolutely. I think if we can euthanize our pets when they are terminally ill, why can't we humans be euthanized?

really? they also euthanize animals that are over crowding the animal shelters so that makes it right to euthanize people that are overcrowding the hospitals. Sounds too convenient to me wow

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Cookie Dough

I think there's a lot to be said for assisted suicide and/or euthanasia. There's also a lot of potential for abuse, too. I think it's something that should be carefully controlled.

That is why I say to keep it out of the medical field. We can keep it how it has been for so many years, if a person wants to take their own life they will find away. This is the safe way and will not put other innocent lives in danger. It is already a problem in the medical field and it is not even legal.

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Unfortunately, as with so many things in life, much of the quality of life one might expect in a nursing home has much to do with how much you are capable of paying for your care. I have an aunt who lives in a very, very, nice home and as far as I can tell she seems to be much happier than she was when she was still in her own home. She has made friends her own age and younger, she's 94. It was entirely her decision to make the move to the home. I believe the ability to make this decision for oneself has much to do with the outcome. No one in the family applied any pressure and, in fact, twice before when a position became available she decided against moving. But, she kept herself on the waiting list and the third time the residence called to let her know that a spot would be opening up she decided to make the move. On the other hand I have read horror stories about some places. If family and friends stay involed with the person's care many of these abuses can be avoided. So, no, I don't believe I would choose death over a nursing home as long as I wasn't living in constant agonizing pain for which there was no hope of relief.

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Moonchaser

Unfortunately, as with so many things in life, much of the quality of life one might expect in a nursing home has much to do with how much you are capable of paying for your care. I have an aunt who lives in a very, very, nice home and as far as I can tell she seems to be much happier than she was when she was still in her own home. She has made friends her own age and younger, she's 94. It was entirely her decision to make the move to the home. I believe the ability to make this decision for oneself has much to do with the outcome. No one in the family applied any pressure and, in fact, twice before when a position became available she decided against moving. But, she kept herself on the waiting list and the third time the residence called to let her know that a spot would be opening up she decided to make the move. On the other hand I have read horror stories about some places. If family and friends stay involed with the person's care many of these abuses can be avoided. So, no, I don't believe I would choose death over a nursing home as long as I wasn't living in constant agonizing pain for which there was no hope of relief.

I agree that care varies depending on what you can pay. My grandmother was in a perfectly horrible place - Medicare paid for. My mother-in-law, though, was in an expensive place. The retirement "home" side was great. But when she got to the point where she needed round the clock nursing care, the quality of life still wasn't that great. Once one is helpless, and especially when dementia sets in, it's pretty miserable no matter where you are. The loss of independence of not being able to even potty on your own, the mind breaking down, and so forth, is not something I wish on anyone, especially myself. Most people I've known who have dementia and are in nursing care are panicky, afraid, confused, don't want to be there, and really would, IMO, be better off being euthanized if that was what they chose when they were lucid enough to make the choice. I would never let a pet get to that point, I think it would be cruel.

I remember one woman, in the nursing home where my SO's aunt was, who stopped every stranger to tell them she was being held against her will and would they please contact her family. No doubt it was dementia that caused this - or she may have been under the state's care or a conservator-ship at that point and had no choice. Why, why would I want my family member or me to go through that kind of tortuous paranoia? It's just not right.

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test account

Yes that is awful. I hope they also have lucid moments when they know they're safe.

I was just going to make the remark that I'm glad I like my food only luke warm, because its unlikely I'd ever get a hot meal in a nursing home I can afford.

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I've had this disscussion with my mother. Her view is as long as she can take care of herself then let her be and enjoy life. However, she did tell me if she lost her mind(in terms of alzheimer's and such) he she would want me to take her up camping in a deserted place and leave her. Dark, isn't it?

So for me, I think I would like assisted suicide if I could no longer take care of myself or lost who I am.

I am an RN in a hospice. I also live in the Pacific Northwest, where the right-to-die law falls under the Death with Dignity Act. You cannot arbitrarily choose to participate under that Act unless you are diagnosed with a terminal illness (including Alzheimers, ALS and all those other memory-loss diseases), alert, oriented and able to make decisions for yourself. There is no "assisted suicide" as such, because no one can assist you. You have to be able to make that decision on your own, you have to be able to swallow, and you have to be able to be deemed psychologically sound enough to make the decision. No one can make it for you--not your Medical Power of Attorney, not your partner, your mother, your father, siblings--no one. Then you must visit with at least two physicians for certification. All of this takes time. And as far as I know, the only two states where this service is available are Washington and Oregon.

This is a serious subject, folks. I work with families who tell me that their loved ones wanted to have so-called "assisted suicide," and some of them expected us to do this for them in the hospice. We do NOT assist; that would be murder, and we will not be a party to that. I cannot say strongly enough that the time to make a decision is when you are still alive. If you are NOT sick, then get a POLST or whatever your state uses (5 Wishes, Living Will, etc.) or another type of advanced directive to instruct health care professionals to NOT take heroic measures on your behalf. That means no resuscitation, no CPR, no tube feedings, no antibiotics, no IV fluids, nada.

If you age and stop eating, start losing weight and become lethargic and STILL do no have a DNR or POLST, then you probably will end up in a nursing home unless you get those little documents in order or, as is the case with my mother, you have someone to take care of you in your own home. But then you will be probably be a candidate for hospice under the criteria of "debility". And no, Hospice is not a nursing home. It is a place where we ease suffering (yes, with drugs) so that you can die in peace in your own time frame.

Hopefully this clarifies some issues, the most important of which is to take care of the paperwork while you're still alive. Then you can go about the business of living without having to worry about dying. This would include your mom, Sari. If she ended up with Alzheimer's, she would be a hospice appropriate candidate, so there would be no need to just take her somewhere and leave her. I know she meant that in a type of "jest" because I hear it all the time. But very few people know what hospice is or what we do, and I think it's important to clarify it as an alternative to those who have waited too late to make a decision. It's heartbreaking to see what leaving that decision to others does to the one who has to make it.

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