90 replies to this topic

[goodyears]

I joined Aven the end of January. Have been mostly reading posts, feeling a connection to others like me, educating myself and most of all feeling thankful for the much needed support.

February 6th I gathered up the courage and gently described Aven to my husband and asked if he would take a look and then we could discuss it. The only indication that he was [alive] during this short conversation was when he said OK.

Since he never has been one to initiate a conversation having to do with our now 11 year old issue, about a week ago I mentioned something about us not having talked yet. No response. Now, yall know at this point anger (although under wraps) is beginning to rear it's ugly head, right!

So today, he says to me, "hey, you don't mind if I go play 9 holes of golf with my buddies do you"? OK, so now I've had it. "Well, whatever, I guess playing golf with your buddies is more important than talking to your wife. It's been a month now and you haven't said one word". Needless to say things escalated and now he says, "see, that's why I can't talk to you because you're always angry"!!! Oh brother!!!

I swore I wasn't going to "dance the dance" anymore, but I just let myself get "set up" only to end up falling right back into that cycle/dance that we do.

Can someone PLEASE give me a new starting point. I'm unable to see beyond my anger. Any offering would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[evanescence]

<< Needless to say things escalated and now he says, "see, that's why I can't talk to you because you're always angry"!!! Oh brother!!! >>

That was a manipulative and disingenuous thing for him to say. I don't blame you for being mad. In your shoes I would ask him if the two of you could schedule a date/time to talk. Let him decide, if possible. If he hasn't looked at AVEN by then, have the computer with you during the talk, show him the home page and definition, and ask him what he thinks.

E.

[Sally]

Goodyears, frankly, he sounds like a pain in the a--!

This isn't being an asexual on his part, it's being a completely uncooperative, noncommunicative, and inconsiderate partner (or non-partner). Maybe you need to think about whether you're ready to give him some sort of ultimatum. Sex sounds like only one of the problems.

[Lady Girl]

I have to say I agree with Sally Goodyears...I don't have a better suggestion. I know I encouraged you to try this second failed attempt at having a talk about it and I'm sorry. Maybe an ultimatum is what's left...I just don't know. I'm very sorry for the unhappy scene today. I wish I could offer you something more.

[goodyears]

It's been such an incredibly frustrating uphill battle. I really do process what is said here in trying to make informed decisions on how to handle this. And, yes, I did take your suggestion Lady Girl...thought it was a good one too!!! If you were serious about your offer to do something more...Hummm, let me see...maybe a new and improved "sexual" partner would be nice!!!

Sally, you were being way to nice in your description...the way I feel right now I would have at least added F***** Pain in the A** (Hummm, not sure if Aven allows so many asterisks). Your right about my scenario not being an asexual behavior. I have identified him to be Passive Aggressive, but guess what...It's ALSO is not a medically recognized personality disorder!!! Could someone please just let me have "common" problems! So coupled with my impending discussion I have to dig through the BS just to get there.

Evanescence, you hit the nail on the head! And this is the crap I had to put up with in counseling too...blame, blame, blame. I plan on taking your suggestion(s)... schedule a time (I have done this many times in the past) and have my lap top ready to go in case he hasn't looked at or really grasped the essence of Aven.

Thanks so much!

[Sally]

This may be beyond AVEN's resources to get through to him, Goodyears. AVEN can often get through to asexuals-who-don't-know-they-are-asexuals, but people simply behaving like assholes, not always.

[Lady Girl]

Aw Goodyears, please keep us posted on how things develop for you.

You do have friends here.

[Sally]

Aw Goodyears, please keep us posted on how things develop for you.

You do have friends here.

Not that we don't hope that things can work out, but regardless, we're on your side, Goodyears.

[Philip027]

This most likely is an issue he's avoiding discussion on because he knows it will turn heated.

I have the same issue with my mom regarding subjects that inevitably lead to arguments because we cannot see eye-to-eye on the matter. I'm not a fan of arguing with her so I tend to avoid the subjects as much as I can in the hopes that she forgets about them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't >_>

I'm not condoning his actions, just commenting that it seems remarkably similar to my own.

[Sally]

This most likely is an issue he's avoiding discussion on because he knows it will turn heated.

I have the same issue with my mom regarding subjects that inevitably lead to arguments because we cannot see eye-to-eye on the matter. I'm not a fan of arguing with her so I tend to avoid the subjects as much as I can in the hopes that she forgets about them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't >_>

I'm not condoning his actions, just commenting that it seems remarkably similar to my own.

You're not your mom's husband, Philip. It's not at all the same thing.

[Philip027]

You're not your mom's husband, Philip. It's not at all the same thing.

Different relationship, different subjects, but likely the same concept. Sure, it's a guess on my part, but I don't think it's entirely without merit. Some people avoid discussion/confrontation on subjects they're uncomfortable with. Conflict avoidance. Not an entirely alien concept, I don't think?

It's not like our squabbles are about sex, either. Eww.

[goodyears]

Sally & Philip027 ~ Sounds like you're both right in that the "dumb ass" component in yesterday's dance with my husband does not relate to asexual behavior, but I'm still not sure if his asexuality stems from orientation or childhood baggage. And, if passive aggressive (to include conflict avoidance)is a self-induced copping mechanism to deal with the aforementioned?????

It's complicated! And, I don't want to exhaust the people here like I did with a couple girlfriends (come on, Goodyears, either shit or get off the pot!) so I think my outreach will stay focused on the asexual topic. I suspect that a couple of you won't be saying goodbye to Aven any time soon (thank God) so I am sort of glad you now have a bit more background.

It may have taken until 53 to find this site and people who understand and have empathy, but better late than never! I'll keep you posted.

Thanks-A-Million

[crucis]

Some people avoid discussion/confrontation on subjects they're uncomfortable with. Conflict avoidance. Not an entirely alien concept, I don't think?

I agree that it could be conflict avoidance. Which (i happen to think) is also one of the worst ways you can use to deal with an issue in a romantic relationship. It just means that person doesn't care if there is a breakdown in communication. I agree with Sally that this is different from a child-parent relationship.

So if it is conflict avoidance, Goodyears, can you remember exactly how the last discussion between the two of you on the subject of his asexuality went? What were the issues at stake, and when did discussion lapse into indignation or anger?

I suspect that he is incapable of comprehending why you have a right to seek a sexual element to your relationship (just like why many people cannot understand why asexuals do not desire sex). Therefore it actually sounds like he could be blaming you for refusing to empathise with his asexuality; he cannot see that he also has an equal obligation to make compromises. This is particularly potent if his ego is at stake.. perhaps he feels a loss of self-esteem because of his asexuality, and therefore loathes it when you remind him of it.

In any case, he is definitely wrong to choose to ignore the issue. You have every right to be angry at him for doing so. I hope he manages to see the light.. if you think he deserves it, you can still try to explain things calmly.

All the best..!

[PiF]

.

[goodyears]

Definitely conflict avoidance. I have always felt that he doesn't care if there's a breakdown of communication. In fact, he not only avoids, but the other part of the dance is he then becomes ultra nice, helpful and connected (in his own way) in hopes I'll just get over it.

Although yesterday wasn't a discussion, the issue was I've been waiting to talk about Aven and he's ignoring me. About a month ago is when I gently told him about Aven, the wealth of information here and support for couples like us struggling with the sexual relationship issue. So the asexual conversation hasn't happened yet. And, yes, he has loathed it each time over the past 11 years when I remind him and just plain refuse to surrender.

This is particularly potent if his ego is at stake.

You are absolutely right...In as much as I've been sensitive to my husband's self-esteem over the years, it's that darn "ego" that rules.

Before he left work for today I asked if he had some time to talk tonight and he agreed. My goal is to create an understanding that "we" are hurting...and that it's not a blame thing, but, I anticipate running up againt that proverbial brick wall again. For him to even get the word "sex" out of his mouth, much less have a conversation about it is terrifying for him...and it's always been like this for him.

Thanks for the insight.

[kupenda]

Hi. I'm new here too and going through the same thing. My husband also doesn't want to talk about it. I think it's easier to derail than to face it - attack is the best form of defence. If he can turn the conversation round to you, then the focus is off him, could that be it? It's really unfair when they won't even allow us to express our feelings about it.

Edited to clarify - by 'they' I mean your husband and mine and not people who are asexual generally!

[Lucinda]

What were your reasons for divorcing your previous husband?

Lucinda

[goodyears]

What were your reasons for divorcing your previous husband?

Lucinda

Well, Lucinda, now I feel like I'm being analyzed, but here goes with a bit more of an answer than you really asked for!!!

The relationship with my exhusband was totally different. Everything was wonderful...excellent emotional/sexual connection, similar backgrounds, good careers, nice house, great friends, planned a family, etc. Once my son was born I became the super mom/wife that could do it all, but things started falling apart for him...he lost his job after many years and really stuggled finding the right fit with other employment. Despite my supportive attempts, things started spiraling downward and he became abusive. Counseling was short lived because he didn't believe in it and stopped going. When my son was 3 I filed for a PFA and got him out. I focused on motherhood and my career for the next 2 years until I started dating my current husband who works in the same profession as I do. And, no, my husband was never married before and did adopt my son.

So does this help you help me, Lucinda?

[Sally]

Goodyears, don't feel you have to explain your life to anyone who asks.

It might work better if you concentrate on yourself rather than him. He obviously doesn't want to talk about sex, so that isn't going to work. Think about what you want in order to continue with the marriage. What's your bottom line? If XXX doesn't happen, will you leave? If so, what is that XXX? That isn't telling him HE must change, it's telling him that you have an idea of what marriage is to you, and you don't want to compromise what you need. If you can't have that with him, then the marriage won't work. Tell him that you don't blame him for anything but not being willing to talk. He is who he is; you are who you are. If the two of you can't reach an understanding, then you need to give up on the marriage.

That sounds pretty cold, but otherwise you may spend the next XXX months asking him to talk with him, being told "yes", and then getting nowhere.

[zoidberger]

I agree with Sally in this last post here. It's probably come to an ultimatum time.

"I am unhappy because we cannot discuss something that is essential to me (or missing) and if we can't have a decent talk on the issue, I will..."

Conflict avoidance is nice and all but a horrible way to communicate with your partner. Nothing will ever be solved and resentment and pushiness among other things are bound to be felt by both parties.

[Down in Texas]

I am going to go against the grain here. Just know that there is not an easy answer to our problem with our men or partners. I am much older and have been married for quite some time now. Sex or the lack of has always been the main problem in our marriage. I am the sexual one and I too am a female. I only found this site a few weeks ago so I am not a lot further along in this process than you may be. All I can do is tell you what I did. I printed the front page on the site and one night I handed it to him and said you need to read this and let me know what you think of it I think I have just found the answer to our problem. He took it sat for a good while, while watching TV and would read a little then stop then read they stop as if he was not interested in it at all. That was three weeks ago the subject is now in his court. I have not brought it up nor has he at this point. I can tell you that he has been a lot more attentive than he has been in a long long time. One day it will come up again for us and when it does then we will talk about whatever he wishes to talk about for now I am just waiting. Three or four years ago on our Anniversary weekend out, he came across a book titles "Sex Starved Wives" he bought it, read it then I read it. After that, we went through a rough spot the book talked about how most woman when put in our situation left and found happiness with others. It took a long time before he stopped checking on me to a point of almost becoming majorly possessive. If I did not answer the phone on the first couple of rings, "something had to be wrong". Everybody responds to things differently. You cannot take any one approach and expect it to work for you. None of us know you or your specific relationship on all other fronts even if you make him sound as if he is a “Hard Ass” which he may be but we do not have the right to label him or label you. In my case, my husband’s lack of ability to talk was because he really did not know how to say it or what to say because HE does not understand anything to do with sexual intimacy and therefore cannot discuss something he cannot understand. It would be the same as having a person walk into your home, hand you a knife, and tell you you had to do a delicate procedure to save someone’s life and you are not a Doctor. I can understand where you are coming from I have been there but divorce was never an option for me. In all other areas, we got along just fine. You and you alone will have to decide how you wish to approach him and when and where. All I will say is do not push too hard too fast. Give him time to process what he can or has read and reassure him of your love if it is still salvageable and your intentions. Let me say it one more time he cannot talk about something he does not fully understand. If he could, you most probably would not be in need of this site. Best of Luck to you May God be with you.

[Percivel]

Goody,

I wish so much that I could help you. I wish I could give you a man/husbands point of view. The problem is that being asexual is so foreign to me and what it would do to me if I was asexual...I just cannot comprehend! I wish I could explain him to you. But, I can't. All I can tell you is that I could never allow my wife to suffer the way you are suffering if there was any way I could help it.

[Sally]

All I will say is do not push too hard too fast. Give him time to process what he can or has read and reassure him of your love if it is still salvageable and your intentions. Let me say it one more time he cannot talk about something he does not fully understand. If he could, you most probably would not be in need of this site. Best of Luck to you May God be with you.

but aside from what needs to be talked about, the fact that talking has not happened, no matter what Goodyears has said or done, seems to me to be the problem. No matter what the issue is, marriages need communication. Whether either of them understand or don't understand what's going on, it needs to be talked about. There's a point beyond which waiting isn't an option. Sounds like Goodyears is at that point, and needs to say that.

Again, I don't think this is about sex any longer. It's about being ignored.

[goodyears]

Hey guys,

Well, I'm back so that means I didn't die after having "THE TALK" with my asexual husband, but boy was I scared!!! Wasn't sure how to tell you without you getting totally board so I will just do the outline thing...

- ground rules: no anger, no covert abuse (PA)
- my approach: did you visit Aven (when he said "NO"...I could have just lost it, but stayed calm)
- the introduction: explained to him what Aven about
- overcoming his ego; using "us" instead of "you"...was VERY careful about this.
- my feet firmly planted, stayed focused, with a loving posture
- no one is to blame, "we" are both hurting
- how it feels to be sexual, why it hurts, gave examples
- asexual isn't bad is just different than sexual
- asexual doesn't care about excuses or blame...it's an orientation not a behavior
- looking back...the reason it wasn't working...what "we" were doing to each other
- gave assurances of confidentiality (I know this a big thing with my husband...goes to ego)
- unlocking a door to happiness and a world of compromise
- weighing our options

I almost felt like it was an out of body experience...listening to myself as though all of you were talking through me. I can only relate it to other sexuals here who post things like, when they lay there at night next to their ace, thoughts of things learned here on Aven enter their mind and they find their need to have sex is not as great. For better or for worse, the impact of this community for those who embrace it is huge.

It was because of the insight and support I received from everyone here that I was able to articulate my thoughts, words and posturing in a way that my husband was able to take in the idea of asexuality.

Instead of ultimatum, I used the word closure. After all my years of searching for an answer to "why"...I now have closure and can move forward. I've reached that fork in the road. Where we go from here has yet to be decided.

In conclusion...my husband was receptive, mostly listened, agreed to continued dialog and appeared to be relieved. It's a start to whatever the outcome may be.

HUGS TO EVERYONE!!!

[Safara]

Reading the thread, this sentence jumped out at me:

For him to even get the word "sex" out of his mouth, much less have a conversation about it is terrifying for him...and it's always been like this for him.

I couldn't help but wonder if this is the salient point here. Does he avoid conflict generally or is it just this topic? If he really is terrified it might help to imagine it as something akin to a phobia - much as you know it's irrational it can be extremely difficult to overcome, although it can be done.

Edit - the above was posted as I was writing this, so probably not very relevant now...

[goodyears]

Some people avoid discussion/confrontation on subjects they're uncomfortable with. Conflict avoidance. Not an entirely alien concept, I don't think?

I agree that it could be conflict avoidance. Which (i happen to think) is also one of the worst ways you can use to deal with an issue in a romantic relationship. It just means that person doesn't care if there is a breakdown in communication. I agree with Sally that this is different from a child-parent relationship.

So if it is conflict avoidance, Goodyears, can you remember exactly how the last discussion between the two of you on the subject of his asexuality went? What were the issues at stake, and when did discussion lapse into indignation or anger?

I suspect that he is incapable of comprehending why you have a right to seek a sexual element to your relationship (just like why many people cannot understand why asexuals do not desire sex). Therefore it actually sounds like he could be blaming you for refusing to empathise with his asexuality; he cannot see that he also has an equal obligation to make compromises. This is particularly potent if his ego is at stake.. perhaps he feels a loss of self-esteem because of his asexuality, and therefore loathes it when you remind him of it.

In any case, he is definitely wrong to choose to ignore the issue. You have every right to be angry at him for doing so. I hope he manages to see the light.. if you think he deserves it, you can still try to explain things calmly.

All the best..!

Just want to say that your input about my asexual husband's self-esteem, ego and inability to comprehend played a huge part in how I approached this talk we had last night.

I now believe success or failure in "The Talk" has alot to do with being able to have empathy for our partner. For me, I needed to work through all MY feelings first before I could begin to look at his.

Thank you Crucis

[Lady Girl]

Sounds like you had the outcome you really wanted and needed! This is good news.

I'm glad Crusis was able to say those things to help you...I felt it was valuable advice as well. Our hurt is great, and their's is probably comparable...I think we tend to forget this when we're so aware of our own pain. Talks like this always go best when it's not about one person or the other, but rather about us.

Congrats Goodyears!

P.S. Having why answered is huge.

[crucis]

..Just want to say that your input about my asexual husband's self-esteem, ego and inability to comprehend played a huge part in how I approached this talk we had last night..

Wow.. I'm really, really glad that I was able to be of any help at all!

Despite his flaws, you have definitely taken a LOT of initiative to reach out to your husband. No matter what the future brings, you can rest assured that you have done everything in your power to help your relationship. At least he seems to realise some of that now.

You were very brave and reasonable, Goodyears, and I'm happy for you that things worked out the best way that they could. Hugs and cake for you!

[Down in Texas]

All I will say is do not push too hard too fast. Give him time to process what he can or has read and reassure him of your love if it is still salvageable and your intentions. Let me say it one more time he cannot talk about something he does not fully understand. If he could, you most probably would not be in need of this site. Best of Luck to you May God be with you.

but aside from what needs to be talked about, the fact that talking has not happened, no matter what Goodyears has said or done, seems to me to be the problem. No matter what the issue is, marriages need communication. Whether either of them understand or don't understand what's going on, it needs to be talked about. There's a point beyond which waiting isn't an option. Sounds like Goodyears is at that point, and needs to say that.

Again, I don't think this is about sex any longer. It's about being ignored.

I agree Sally, and I hear everything you are saying. I am glad she was able to talk and to keep things in the “WE” rather than an “I OR YOU“ approach. My only worry was that she was too emotional at this moment to address the matter calmly. I know that there has to be communication but it comes in different ways, as we all know. It can be confrontational, empathetic or even as a unifying talk. After being away for a few days and reading, I got the impression that her emotions were too high to have a talk of this importance in a calm rational matter. I am glad she was able to do just that. As we all probably know the talking is not over it must continue until things can be acceptable to both parties involved. I have found in my situation that I am heard more when I confront my husband with just what it seems Goodyear has done staying calm and making it a “we” discussion goes so much further than an attack approach. One of the analogies that I have used is to tell him to take me off of the shelf he has put me on. That I had rather be used as a comfort blanket and played with as if I were his favorite toy rather than sat on a shelf and looked and as if saying “she is mine look what a treasure I have”. I had rather be the tattered Velveteen Rabbit than an unused possession that was only looked at from afar. This analogy got me much further in my relationship than almost any of the others put together. I am only offering it as a tool that worked for me.

[Down in Texas]

Hey guys,

Well, I'm back so that means I didn't die after having "THE TALK" with my asexual husband, but boy was I scared!!! Wasn't sure how to tell you without you getting totally board so I will just do the outline thing...

- ground rules: no anger, no covert abuse (PA)
- my approach: did you visit Aven (when he said "NO"...I could have just lost it, but stayed calm)
- the introduction: explained to him what Aven about
- overcoming his ego; using "us" instead of "you"...was VERY careful about this.
- my feet firmly planted, stayed focused, with a loving posture
- no one is to blame, "we" are both hurting
- how it feels to be sexual, why it hurts, gave examples
- asexual isn't bad is just different than sexual
- asexual doesn't care about excuses or blame...it's an orientation not a behavior
- looking back...the reason it wasn't working...what "we" were doing to each other
- gave assurances of confidentiality (I know this a big thing with my husband...goes to ego)
- unlocking a door to happiness and a world of compromise
- weighing our options

I almost felt like it was an out of body experience...listening to myself as though all of you were talking through me. I can only relate it to other sexuals here who post things like, when they lay there at night next to their ace, thoughts of things learned here on Aven enter their mind and they find their need to have sex is not as great. For better or for worse, the impact of this community for those who embrace it is huge.

It was because of the insight and support I received from everyone here that I was able to articulate my thoughts, words and posturing in a way that my husband was able to take in the idea of asexuality.

Instead of ultimatum, I used the word closure. After all my years of searching for an answer to "why"...I now have closure and can move forward. I've reached that fork in the road. Where we go from here has yet to be decided.

In conclusion...my husband was receptive, mostly listened, agreed to continued dialog and appeared to be relieved. It's a start to whatever the outcome may be.

HUGS TO EVERYONE!!!

I am so glad things went so well for you. I am wishing you all the success in the world. We all love happy endings even though yours is not fully there yet. You have taken the first and hardest step. Just know we all understand where you are coming from and will always listen. God Bless you as you journey forward.