What is 'Sexual attraction'?

[DefinitionPhobic]

Let me go one level deeper:  For purposes of defining "sexual attraction", what is the definition of "sex"?  Is it penetration only?  Genital contact only?  Any physical contact leading to pleasure or arousal (whatever that is)?

 

I recently read a personal ad from a woman who identified as "asexual".  Among other things, she said (details changed to protect the innocent) that she melts when someone rubs her feet.  I've always viewed myself as very sexual - but with a very broad definition of "sex" and little interest in penetration.  Considering genitalia to be the only sexual organs seems horribly limiting, when there are ears, necks, shoulders, thighs, toes, etc. which can give one pleasure.  And I've always considered giving pleasure by playing with any of those body parts (as well as genitals)  to be a sexual activity.   So, in my mind. rubbing her feet until she melts would be a sexual activity, while she considers it asexual.   Not that there's a right or a wrong when it comes to individual sexual preferences and orientations, but which one of us is right and which one of us is wrong?  😉

 

One more question:  What about sex without attraction?   Suppose someone engages in some  form of completely anonymous (dark room, blindfold, gloryhole, etc.) sex?   Does that count as "sexual attraction," when the other person's identity is completely irrelevant, and only the sex act matters.  If "sexual attraction" is defined as a reaction to a specific person (as the first post in this thread does), can someone who has (and desires and enjoys) frequent anonymous sex be asexual?

 

[ryn2]

32 minutes ago, DefinitionPhobic said:

So, in my mind. rubbing her feet until she melts would be a sexual activity, while she considers it asexual. 

To me this hinges on the meaning of the word “melts.”  Does she mean “completely relaxes,” e.g., or does she mean “becomes aroused”/“gets sexual gratification from”?

 

The former could be wholly nonsexual, as could something like “melting” over an adorable puppy or kitten.  The latter would be sexual, so they’d be ace things only if you rubbed your own feet.

[TheAP]

And asexuals can be aroused by sexual activities. I believe it would only be sexual if the person actually desired to perform those acts with someone else for sexual pleasure.

[ryn2]

12 minutes ago, TheAppallingPhantom said:

And asexuals can be aroused by sexual activities. I believe it would only be sexual if the person actually desired to perform those acts with someone else for sexual pleasure.

Agreed, although I’m not sure everyone else agrees.  

[Snao Cone]

Asexual people often find a need to distinguish between sexual and sensual activities. For sexual people, foot rubs might be considered erotic foreplay that they associate with sex. That's understandable, given their motives and perspectives and associated experiences. But if that foot rub will never lead to more definitively sexual activity (because the person who wants the foot rub does not want sex) then it loses the sexual association. If a couple (of any orientation) hadn't had penetrative, oral, or manual sex in a year, but one partner said they had sex daily because they give regular foot rubs, the other partner could rightfully object to that statement. 

 

Regarding sex without seeing or knowing the person, the individual driven to have that kind of sex desires partnered sex for their own pleasure. They may not be sexually attracted to the other person, but they're attracted to something that makes them want partnered sex. 

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, Lusnaofer said:

If a couple (of any orientation) hadn't had penetrative, oral, or manual sex in a year, but one partner said they had sex daily because they give regular foot rubs, the other partner could rightfully object to that statement. 

That’s why I like “engaged in sexual activity” over “had sex”... the former is often understood to be broader.

[ryn2]

22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Counting footrubs as sexual activity is pushing the term beyond its reasonable limit I think.

Even if they’re done for sexual arousal and sexual gratification? That would normally fall under paraphilia/fetish territory...

[ryn2]

31 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

But wasn't what @Lusnaofer meant and you can't generalise from it.

 

Fucking AVEN and its edge cases.

DefinitionPhobic started the foot discussion (saying “melting” from foot rubs implied a sexual response).

[Snao Cone]

I disagree that "melting" is necessarily sexual. People can describe therapeutic massages that way, and the same goes for relaxing foot rubs outside of a sexual context. People can also feel "melted" by delicious food or impactful performances without it being sexual (though sometimes it may be associated with sex). 

[ryn2]

Just now, Lusnaofer said:

I disagree that "melting" is necessarily sexual. People can describe therapeutic massages that way, and the same goes for relaxing foot rubs outside of a sexual context. People can also feel "melted" by delicious food or impactful performances without it being sexual (though sometimes it may be associated with sex). 

Agreed... it depends on what the ad-writer meant, which isn’t clear from the excerpt posted here. 

[ryn2]

In this case a sexual person said that melting over foot rubs was something they considered sexual.  I was just explaining that it could be, or not.  It didn’t seem like a crazy edge case discussion...

[Duke Memphis]

I enjoy a good foot rub. I see it as nothing but an activity that relaxes the feet from the stresses of walking and running.

 

You know, there's a scene in Pulp Fiction that talks about foot rubs. This conversation reminds me of that scene.

[ryn2]

I, ironically, am super-ticklish and don’t like foot rubs in either a sexual or sensual way.  😂

[DefinitionPhobic]

Thanks everyone for your replies.  You've helped me understand the definitions.  

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I have, and do, melt into my car, but it definitely isn't sexual. In our case it's love and contentment.

[K9DMM]

TL;DR the entire thread, but I do have a question / comment and rater that start a new thread I'll put it here. 

 

Maybe it's my aspie brain, but I've equated the enjoyment of looking at the female form with sexual attraction and I'm starting to question that. 

 

Currently: I like looking at women and studying their bodies therefore I must be sexually attracted to them, but I don't want to sleep with them and am confused what that means... So just avoid it... 

 

I guess it's the attraction/desire thing. Also does attraction have to be sexual? There's been artwork, classic cars, etc that I've obsessed over and really just enjoyed studying the lines trying to figure out why it's attractive when something similar isn't. 

 

I think I've surmised that you can be attracted to someone without having desire to engage in sexual activity. I also think that not all attraction is sexual, even if it's something that a sexual person would find sexually attractive. 

 

The fact that I have zero desire, even with someone I find mesmerizingly attractive would suggest that I am in fact asexual. I've been struggling with that lately because it's been suggested that since I'm attracted to women I must be sexual. 

 

Thanks

[everywhere and nowhere]

6 minutes ago, K9DMM said:

I guess it's the attraction/desire thing. Also does attraction have to be sexual? There's been artwork, classic cars, etc that I've obsessed over and really just enjoyed studying the lines trying to figure out why it's attractive when something similar isn't. 

 

I think I've surmised that you can be attracted to someone without having desire to engage in sexual activity. I also think that not all attraction is sexual, even if it's something that a sexual person would find sexually attractive. 

 

The fact that I have zero desire, even with someone I find mesmerizingly attractive would suggest that I am in fact asexual. I've been struggling with that lately because it's been suggested that since I'm attracted to women I must be sexual. 

I've been wondering about this a lot recently. Basically: is sexual attraction without sexual desire possible? Most will probably say that what you experience is just esthetic attraction and not sexual attraction. But sometimes these feelings have a clear sexual-ish aspect - and still don't lead to actually desiring sex.

A few ad hoc hypotheses:

1. Perhaps it's an autochorissexual/fictosexual thing - just being able to experience sexuality only vicariously, without any willingness to actually engage in it.
2. Perhaps a term for something between esthetic attraction and sexual attraction would be useful. (It's not sensual attraction either because it doesn't have to lead to desire for any kind of personal contact.)
3. Perhaps it's a sex aversion thing, with the arc of sexual response breaking somewhere on the transition from arousal to actually desiring sex and chanelling into other forms such as third-person fantasies.

Still, I feel very unwilling to label sex aversion as simply pathological. If I feel content with being sex-averse, if I have no desire to take my sexuality further than imagination, if I feel strongly - even when admitting the "vicious circle" character of such feelings - that I wouldn't like to actually have sex and my sex aversion protects me from that - why should I feel forced to adopt a definition completely alien to me? For me sex aversion and nudity aversion is a part of my personality I fully accept and have no desire to change.

[ryn2]

Even within the mental health diagnostic process, something has to be causing distress and interfering with your life to be considered pathological.  If you are experiencing something others might consider a problem but are entirely unbothered by it... and it’s not getting in the way of your work, social activities, status as a law-abiding citizen, etc... then it’s not dysfunctional for you.

[ryn2]

22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

AVEN calls what you're experiencing 'aesthetic attraction'. Sexual attraction  to someone is feeling a strong pull that given the right circumstances, you'd like to have a sex with them for your own enjoyment. Looks don't necessarily come into it. 

For example, I love watching Sergei Polunin dance.  In fact, I just love looking at Sergei Polunin.  I think his physique is amazing, I love the way he moves and is so in command of his body, and I could stare at him for hours.

 

There’s nothing sexual about it for me, though.  Looking at him does not arouse me, or make me wish I wasn’t old enough to be his mother, even if he is entirely naked.

 

I wouldn’t personally call it aesthetic attraction, but that’s what it would go by here.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

5 hours ago, K9DMM said:

TL;DR the entire thread, but I do have a question / comment and rater that start a new thread I'll put it here. 

 

Maybe it's my aspie brain, but I've equated the enjoyment of looking at the female form with sexual attraction and I'm starting to question that. 

 

Currently: I like looking at women and studying their bodies therefore I must be sexually attracted to them, but I don't want to sleep with them and am confused what that means... So just avoid it... 

 

I guess it's the attraction/desire thing. Also does attraction have to be sexual? There's been artwork, classic cars, etc that I've obsessed over and really just enjoyed studying the lines trying to figure out why it's attractive when something similar isn't. 

 

I think I've surmised that you can be attracted to someone without having desire to engage in sexual activity. I also think that not all attraction is sexual, even if it's something that a sexual person would find sexually attractive. 

 

The fact that I have zero desire, even with someone I find mesmerizingly attractive would suggest that I am in fact asexual. I've been struggling with that lately because it's been suggested that since I'm attracted to women I must be sexual. 

 

Thanks

Yep, that just sounds like aesthetic attraction to me I get it a lot.

[Random Human]

I am so confused... If sexual attraction is attraction that leads to sexual thoughts, and sexual desire is desiring sexual contact with someone, then how does one have sexual attraction WITHOUT desire? How does one have attraction of a sexual nature but then not have any sexual desire? Am I missing something? 

Edit: Just to clarify, I understand that it's possible to be attracted to someone without having sexual desire, but wouldn't that then be purely aesthetic? And if not, what differentiates attraction and desire? I can't find a way to make both contrasts work at once 🤔

[IrishArcher]

20 hours ago, Random Human said:

I am so confused... If sexual attraction is attraction that leads to sexual thoughts, and sexual desire is desiring sexual contact with someone, then how does one have sexual attraction WITHOUT desire? How does one have attraction of a sexual nature but then not have any sexual desire? Am I missing something? 

Edit: Just to clarify, I understand that it's possible to be attracted to someone without having sexual desire, but wouldn't that then be purely aesthetic? And if not, what differentiates attraction and desire? I can't find a way to make both contrasts work at once 🤔

I had a conversation with a friend a couple days ago where we discussed different forms of attraction. She is allosexual (lesbian), and knows that I identify as ace, so she asked me if I could relate to a certain feeling she gets when looking at people. At first I said yes, and described what I would call aesthetic attraction: I have the urge to look at people who are aesthetically pleasing, but I have no desire to interact with them at all (either romantically, sexually, or even platonically in most cases). I feel nothing beyond a certain appreciation for a person's face/hair/style, and a desire to study them from a distance. She told me that wasn't quite what she was talking about, and proceeded to describe a different experience: she looks at some people and feels aroused, but she doesn't consciously think "I want to have sex with that person," nor does she necessarily feel any urge to act on that arousal. To me, this seems to be the difference between sexual attraction and sexual desire.

[Custard Cream]

On 10/25/2018 at 11:13 PM, ryn2 said:

I, ironically, am super-ticklish and don’t like foot rubs in either a sexual or sensual way.  😂

Yeah - anyone touching my feet does so at their own risk. Likewise tickling.

[space ace with a mace]

ok, I'm about to make this conversation a lot less intelligent sounding, but in my mind, it took me a while to realize that when people find others attractive, they are like "i want to put my bit in their bit" or vice versa. It kinda blew my mind because I find people attractive as in when I see someone I like, I want to date them and spend lots of time with them and bake and be silly and just like cute relationship stuff, and it never occurred to me that other people didn't think the same way. I think that this forum is really useful for helping people understand sexual attraction.

[andreas1033]

2 minutes ago, space ace with a mace said:

ok, I'm about to make this conversation a lot less intelligent sounding, but in my mind, it took me a while to realize that when people find others attractive, they are like "i want to put my bit in their bit" or vice versa. It kinda blew my mind because I find people attractive as in when I see someone I like, I want to date them and spend lots of time with them and bake and be silly and just like cute relationship stuff, and it never occurred to me that other people didn't think the same way. I think that this forum is really useful for helping people understand sexual attraction.

I agree.

 

I found it funny, that females liking a male, have a desire to sit on that males face. Females often when they like males in that way i found, desire to sit on a males face.

 

Its bizarre isn't it?

 

Of course all sexuals have there own unique thing. Its a very weird thing. It probably comes down, to what they like to do, and people have unique likes.

 

I always found it weird how females would like a male, and they want to sit on his face.

 

What weird desires.

[Snao Cone]

6 minutes ago, andreas1033 said:

I agree.

 

I found it funny, that females liking a male, have a desire to sit on that males face. Females often when they like males in that way i found, desire to sit on a males face.

 

Its bizarre isn't it?

 

Of course all sexuals have there own unique thing. Its a very weird thing. It probably comes down, to what they like to do, and people have unique likes.

 

I always found it weird how females would like a male, and they want to sit on his face.

 

What weird desires.

..."sit on his face" is an expression for wanting a guy to perform oral sex, and rarely means actually sitting on his face. It's not literal, it's...

 

 

😎

 

 

...clitoral.

 

 

YEEEEAAAAAHHHHH! 

[Ita25]

I'm in a weird spot because I feel very strong connections to women I'm attracted to. First and foremost I want to get to know them, build an emotional and mental bond, find happiness, and eventually I do want to connect physically. I love making out and "getting physical" with everything involved in that right up to the line of having sex. It's just the sex that doesn't appeal to me. So where would that land me on the scale of sexual attraction? 

[NickyTannock]

On 2/8/2019 at 4:40 AM, Ita25 said:

I'm in a weird spot because I feel very strong connections to women I'm attracted to. First and foremost I want to get to know them, build an emotional and mental bond, find happiness, and eventually I do want to connect physically. I love making out and "getting physical" with everything involved in that right up to the line of having sex. It's just the sex that doesn't appeal to me. So where would that land me on the scale of sexual attraction? 

No. We define Sexual Attraction as leading to the desire to have sex with someone.
Meaning if what you're feeling doesn't lead to the desire to have sex with the person you're feeling it towards, then it's not Sexual Attraction.
But there are other types of attraction besides Sexual Attraction.
There's Romantic Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to have a romantic relationship with someone.
There's Sensual Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to have intimate non-sexual physical contact with someone, like kissing or cuddling.
There's Aesthetic Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to appreciate someone's aesthetic beauty.
There's Platonic Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to have a deep friendship with someone.
And more.

[Ita25]

11 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

No. We define Sexual Attraction as leading to the desire to have sex with someone.
Meaning if what you're feeling doesn't lead to the desire to have sex with the person you're feeling it towards, then it's not Sexual Attraction.
But there are other types of attraction besides Sexual Attraction.
There's Romantic Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to have a romantic relationship with someone.
There's Sensual Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to have intimate non-sexual physical contact with someone, like kissing or cuddling.
There's Aesthetic Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to appreciate someone's aesthetic beauty.
There's Platonic Attraction, which we define as leading to the desire to have a deep friendship with someone.
And more.

So based on that I guess I'd fit into all those categories of attraction except for Sexual. Not sure where that lands me in the asexual realm though. I've been labeled as Heteroromantic Gray A. Does that sound right? 

[NickyTannock]

13 hours ago, Ita25 said:

So based on that I guess I'd fit into all those categories of attraction except for Sexual. Not sure where that lands me in the asexual realm though. I've been labeled as Heteroromantic Gray A. Does that sound right? 

That depends: A Greysexual (Gray A) experiences Sexual Attraction sometimes, whereas an Asexual doesn't experience Sexual Attraction at all, and a Sexual experiences the average amount of Sexual Attraction (They would like to have sex around twice a week or more).