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S*** Sexual People Say (to Asexual People)


swankivy

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I've posted this elsewhere already some of my concerns, but I was wondering has anyone considered maybe just dropping the "sexuals" bit off the title?

Yep! I don't know if you've been to the link that has the details in my first post, but in the first thread of comments I already pointed out my intentions back on January 13. (Note: I never call people "sexuals," and didn't do so in this title either, but have on occasion used "sexual people" when compared with "asexual people." Both terms have raised objections with some people, though, and I know this.)

Since you may or may not read the comment thread I pointed out, here's the gist:

Someone wrote "I've got such a full life I often wonder how sexuals squeeze it in." And I replied, in part, with this:

Though speaking of "sexuals," I might try to title the video something slightly different because I've heard some subsection of sexual people don't like being called "sexual people" when compared to asexual people. I don't think I really get it, because even though I don't just walk around telling people I'm a cis female, I don't mind further defining myself that way if we're in a situation where trans or genderqueer people are being discussed and a name for non-trans, non-genderqueer people needs invoking. I don't want to ruffle their feathers in stupid ways, because like most of my outreach, I don't want this to just be a video talking to ourselves. I want the sexual folks of the world to hear and process the message, and if they're too busy being offended by "omg you called me 'sexual' and that means you think I'm just walking around with my penis out all the time" then they won't listen. :(

Further discussion shows me suggesting I'll probably just say "people," because it is people of various sorts who are saying this to us, but I think the main problem with just saying "s*** that gets said to asexuals" is that this is a parody that took wing as a sort of meme, and it originally came from "Shit Girls Say" and the first popular one I saw was "Shit White Girls Say... to Black Girls." I want mine to be an asexual version of that and easy to find, so I'd like to keep the same title format, but sounding accusing toward an entire group because we want to point out unhelpful and condescending things they say is not my intention. (That's probably why I like my title "Asexual Bingo" on the previous "crappy comments" video, because pretty much everyone can watch that video and not feel that the people feeding me bingo squares are representative of any group they belong to.)

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I've posted this elsewhere already some of my concerns, but I was wondering has anyone considered maybe just dropping the "sexuals" bit off the title?

Further discussion shows me suggesting I'll probably just say "people"

Okay, cool! I am glad this was already being addressed. :cake:

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...that feels a lot less...attack-y...for lack of a better word. I don't know, the other title (the "Shit Sexual People Say") sort of evoked this defensive reaction out of me and I don't know why.

Well, I think part of the reason we all threw that in there is that it's the format of the parody. You can see the black lady who made "Shit White Girls Say...to Black Girls" getting told that she is being racist all throughout the comments, and even though exposing ignorance is NOT an attack (and it's not even TALKING TO YOU if you're not one of the people saying these things), it can certainly be interpreted that way. People get defensive. People feel attacked. And then people won't listen to your message because they're too busy subconsciously looking for a reason why they shouldn't have to, and it's so much easier to just assign you a hateful/prejudiced/angry/whatever attitude so that it's you who is unreasonable. Therefore, they do not have to take anything you say as usable advice, and they do not take steps to look at themselves and see whether this is them.

I'm not black, or trans, but I really enjoyed watching "Shit White Girls Say...to Black Girls" and "Shit Cis People Say to Trans People." I've never said any of the things the "white girls" say in the video--and completely understand why they'd be wrong to say--and I've said one of the things the "cis people" say in the video (but not in the same context and not for the same reason, so I don't feel they were addressing me). The point, I think, is for a member of a minority to tell the majority (whatever it is) that they are stepping on toes by saying these things, and that way it's a tool for us to not have to individually take every person in our lives aside and explain the no-no's every time they say one of these things.

I'm definitely going to prepare a document for linking in case people legitimately don't understand why the statements aren't really right to ask us/say to us. I might also want to elaborate on how the spirit of some of the statements isn't necessarily ignorant, but the phrasing can make it sound that way. For instance, I've been asked "Aren't you going to regret that?" or "Don't you think you're missing out on an essential part of being human?" Those questions are absolutely phrased to sound condescending and clearly are delivered expecting the answer "of course." Like it's self-evident that we'll regret our "decision" or that sex is "part of being human." But if someone honestly wants to know whether I worry about my future as an asexual, or wants to know whether I feel left out of the overwhelming majority to the point that I feel like an alien, and they want to discuss these experiences with me, there are constructive ways of asking those questions. They just need to learn to do it without telling us with their phrasing and their word choice what the only acceptable answer would be in their eyes.

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Sometimes to provoke thought, it works to provoke the individual. =P

There's also the saying "no publicity is bad publicity", but that also depends.

Ah, I dunno what I'm saying anymore.

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5_♦♣

There's also the saying "no publicity is bad publicity".

That's exactly what I was thinking.

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I got this one (about not wanting anything to do with sexual things):

"I'm very open minded. Don't you just find it scary?"

... how very open minded <_<

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I got this one (about not wanting anything to do with sexual things):

"I'm very open minded. Don't you just find it scary?"

... how very open minded <_<

"Oh yes, sir, how very open-minded you seem." Indeed. I've seen this before too--they point out that since THEY are "open" to trying lots of sexual things, it's bad to be the way you are. And "open" varies in definition for these people--it could be that they're bi or pansexual and don't understand WHY people can't develop attraction for many many people (and assign those of us who don't "close-minded" attitudes, as if we can choose), or it could be that they're straight or gay only but are "open" about plenty of different kinds of sex positions or whatever (and assign an unadventurous, walleyed attitude to those of us who experience revulsion at the idea of sex with people we aren't attracted to).

The whole "This doesn't bother me/I like this, so it's UNREASONABLE for it to bother you/not like it" mantra is very common. These people need to acknowledge that they are not us, and that it isn't unreasonable or mock-worthy to feel the way we do. It is inappropriate for them to try to change our feelings when those feelings are about what experiences we want in this world and about our own personal happiness. THEY are close-minded if they can't accept that everyone experiences life differently and that we all have the right to pursue what makes us happy.

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About people having issues with the term "sexual", the problem, from what I understand, is that the word "sexual" has certain connotations that go beyond sexual orientation, or don't even have anything to do with sexual orientation. Granted, several people I've seen object to the term were not focusing on that and in fact mostly ranting about how much asexuals suck, but after thinking this through, I do believe the word "sexual" is not one I'm too comfortable using in this context. Not just because there are "sexual" people, especially queer "sexual" people, who aren't okay with it, but also because there are asexual people who have a "sexuality" in a different sense.

I've come across an awesome blog where an asexual person thought about this and came up with an alternative: "poikkisexual" (explanation of the word by the one who came up with it here: http://aceadmiral.tumblr.com/post/12161047814/more-suggestions-to-replace-otj). I'm probably going to go with this, because I refuse to call people who aren't asexual "non-asexual", but I also acknowledge that a big difference between "sexual" and, say, "cis" is that "cis" is usually only used in a specific context and has a pretty clear meaning while "sexual" gets used in a lot of contexts and can mean a whole lot of different things. So, not meaning to tell anyone else how to handle this, but in case you're looking for an alternative for this video and/or future videos, I thought I'd mention it. I was only recently made aware of how much asexual-hate can be found in social justice contexts and am still trying to figure out which complaints are valid and which ones are just ridiculous.

Er, yeah. Hope this was relevant.

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About people having issues with the term "sexual", the problem, from what I understand, is that the word "sexual" has certain connotations that go beyond sexual orientation, or don't even have anything to do with sexual orientation.

Yep, I personally have read and understood the arguments, though I'm not participating in the poll and I'm not going to call people something as non-intuitive as "poikkisexual." Until or unless there comes a term that is by consensus accepted by both asexual people and people who experience sexual attraction, I'll probably have to dance around it, though I don't love that either. I don't want people to think I'm calling them "sexual" in a more specific way than an umbrella term, and I can understand why some people don't like it (kinda like I'm not a big fan of being called "celibate" or "a virgin" even though both of those things do apply in my case; they're just not definitive). They don't always know, understand, or accept what we mean by "sexual" when we call them that in the context of discussing asexuality, so I guess I have to accept their complaints.

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Yep, I personally have read and understood the arguments, though I'm not participating in the poll and I'm not going to call people something as non-intuitive as "poikkisexual." Until or unless there comes a term that is by consensus accepted by both asexual people and people who experience sexual attraction, I'll probably have to dance around it, though I don't love that either. I don't want people to think I'm calling them "sexual" in a more specific way than an umbrella term, and I can understand why some people don't like it (kinda like I'm not a big fan of being called "celibate" or "a virgin" even though both of those things do apply in my case; they're just not definitive). They don't always know, understand, or accept what we mean by "sexual" when we call them that in the context of discussing asexuality, so I guess I have to accept their complaints.

Yeah, the term not being intuitive is the problem I have with it, too. Using it would only really make sense if most of the asexual community went with it (and no complaints worse than "it's a label!" popped up), which is obviously not the case at the moment. On the other hand, I've not found anything better so far, and I personally prefer it over just not naming the majority, because that makes me feel like they're "normal" while I'm... well, "an asexual person". However, I'm sure you'll handle the issue well - I certainly can't come up with a great solution, either, and your videos (or at least the ones I've seen) are awesome. And while "people who experience sexual attraction" is pretty long, I think it works.

Anyway, regarding the original topic... I was recently told being asexual is like having never seen the sun. (Though I don't have a recoding of it, anyway, so just mentioning it.) Good luck with your video!

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Yeah, the term not being intuitive is the problem I have with it, too.

I can at least understand that if everyone started doing it, it would eventually BECOME intuitive (and some people say "asexual" isn't intuitive, but I think it is MUCH more so than "poikkisexual"). But the thing is, to use a comparison from the trans and genderqueer community, the VERY FIRST TIME I heard non-gendered invented pronouns "ze" and "zir," I understood it in context. "Oh, that person's writing it that way because ze doesn't want to specify the gender or wants to specify that the gender isn't important here." It's much less binary-enforcing than "s/he," and clearer in certain situations than "they," so to me, it didn't matter that it was invented. It's intuitive. Some people think it sounds silly. It would eventually stop sounding silly if people used it.

Using it would only really make sense if most of the asexual community went with it

Actually I think most of the asexual community was happy with "sexual people," but those labeled as such complained and said they'd prefer something else. While it's kind of odd for a majority to be complaining about what a minority calls them during their own discourse, we do want to engage them, and alienating them using a term they find offensive isn't going to help. We've mostly gotten pushback from outside the community, I think, so it'd need to be more than just the asexual community going with it.

I personally prefer it over just not naming the majority, because that makes me feel like they're "normal" while I'm... well, "an asexual person".

Yeah, that's the main objection I've seen. The majority doesn't have a name, and it needs one. I honestly think that intuitively "sexual" makes the most sense, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that people are saying it's offensive because it can be understood in other contexts (you know, like "asexual" can refer to reproduction and not to our orientation--just like "sexual" can) or because they feel it paints them as hypersexual or defined by sexuality/sex when we say they're "sexual" people. But even though in the context of discussing asexuality vs. not-asexuality, "sexual" makes sense (isn't it just "sexual" modified, after all?), I absolutely can't just tell them "you shouldn't feel that way about it." If they DO feel that way about it, it will get in the way of the discourse, and people are always more important to me than politics.

I was recently told being asexual is like having never seen the sun.

Give me a break. Wow. (And I guess blind people, who also may have never seen the sun, should be condescended to and treated like they're missing an integral part of the human experience too, huh?) Well, I've not had that exact one, but I've definitely heard similar ones about how I don't know real love, real pleasure, real humanhood, real LIFE, if I don't experience sex. Clearly they can only process their own lives as the standard, and process everyone else lacking the essential elements of theirs as having gaping holes where those things "should" be.

I sometimes make a writing analogy for this one. I'm a writer, and being a writer is so central to who I am that I don't consider "writing" a hobby; being a writer is an identity. I can't imagine who I would be or how I would interact with the world or with my own mind if I wasn't a writer. But that doesn't mean I've ever considered saying to non-writers anything like "But how can you NOT be compelled to write books?" or "I guess you'll just never experience intellectual ecstasy then, and I'm sad for you," or "Why don't you just TRY it and learn how it feels to get involved in the best thing that could ever happen to you?" I know that I, as a writer, feel this way about writing because it's part of who I am, and that others who aren't writers wouldn't feel the same about completing a book and don't feel the same calling that I do. They might try it, and they might even like it, but they aren't writers. They're people who write. And there's nothing they can do about it--or should want to do about it.

Sadly, this extended metaphor is often shot down by people who believe sexuality, by contrast, is a driving human force while being a writer cannot be. "It's not the same," they argue. I think the analogy makes a lot of sense, but still they believe I must be missing pieces or live my life with a well of sadness at the center of my heart because I "lack" this fundamental (to them) drive. Well, all I can say is I indeed don't have that puzzle piece, but that I appear to have been fully formed without it. I don't have a hole there. And as I like to say, if you keep poking me there expecting to find a hole, you're either going to cause an open wound or a callus. Guess which one I have.

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Regarding terms, I've been playing with the idea of using mono/polysexual. Has its roots in polyamorous community, I guess, and it seems intuitive enough to me XD

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I think using the term sexual on AVEN makes sense because its, well, necessary. The point of the video is made equally well without using the term sexual, so in that context it makes sense to drop it. Plus not everyone's going to know what it means anyway.

I don't know if this is going to make sense, but I hope the video details statements that are... more extreme. It seems to me that asking basic questions about asexuality, like "aren't you afraid of being lonely" or "does that mean you don't masturbate" are reasonable questions and shouldn't be mocked. Even if its annoying to answer the same questions over and over again (I get the "but don't you want a family" question ALL THE TIME), you don't want to discourage well-meaning family and friends from engaging in conversation with you about your orientation. I imagine there are enough ridiculous comments you can pull from without delving into the more innocent ones.

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I don't know if this is going to make sense, but I hope the video details statements that are... more extreme. [ . . . ] I imagine there are enough ridiculous comments you can pull from without delving into the more innocent ones.

I'm actually planning to mostly highlight comments that are more in the middle. It's not

with the terrible comments, but it's not the totally legitimate, nicely phrased questions that are natural when someone new to the concept wants to discuss asexuality. (In my article "How to Be an Asexual Ally," published in Good Vibrations, I have a longer discussion of what kinds of questions we tend to appreciate and how to avoid alienating asexuals if you're a sexual person wanting to talk about it.)

But I think the video is more aimed at people who are usually well-meaning but still saying inappropriate or ignorant things. I don't think it's wrong for someone to be curious about our masturbation habits or whether we're going to have children, but the phrasing matters. "So do you masturbate?" is a polite enough question (provided the person who asks it has a relationship with me where that would be okay to ask me even if I wasn't asexual; I don't want a stranger asking me that). But "You DO masturbate, though, RIGHT?" or "If you're masturbating, that means you ARE sexual" aren't appropriate, even though they're on the same subject. I also object to being told the purpose of my body is to make babies, while I don't object to being asked what my feelings on having children are. It's all in the delivery.

Most people watching the video should be able to tell immediately why the statements included aren't appropriate, even if they're designed to be supportive (e.g., "You must be so spiritually enlightened!" or "I admire that you're saving yourself"). But in case they don't know in some cases, a document explaining the reasons behind the statements being considered ignorant will be linked in the video. We don't want people to think we're nastily mocking them.

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Oh wow, you beat me to it!

That's what I get for waiting a week with my idea in the age of the internet.

Still accepting submissions?

I think it should just be called

"shit EVERYONE says to asexuals."

Sometimes we make the mistakes of seeing things in the way of the dominant sexual culture, also.

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I don't know if this is going to make sense, but I hope the video details statements that are... more extreme. [ . . . ] I imagine there are enough ridiculous comments you can pull from without delving into the more innocent ones.

I'm actually planning to mostly highlight comments that are more in the middle. It's not

with the terrible comments, but it's not the totally legitimate, nicely phrased questions that are natural when someone new to the concept wants to discuss asexuality. (In my article "How to Be an Asexual Ally," published in Good Vibrations, I have a longer discussion of what kinds of questions we tend to appreciate and how to avoid alienating asexuals if you're a sexual person wanting to talk about it.)

Link's not working :mad:

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Oh wow, you beat me to it! That's what I get for waiting a week with my idea in the age of the internet.

I know how you feel--one person already made an asexual version of this, so I'm not even the first.

Still accepting submissions?

Absolutely! The link I included in the first post has all the details on what I'd like you to send and how to get it to me.

I think it should just be called "shit EVERYONE says to asexuals."

I see your point, but since "everyone" doesn't say these things (there are some awesome people who don't feel compelled to judge us constantly, after all!), I don't want to use "everyone" either. I'll probably just say "people" or "some people."

Sometimes we make the mistakes of seeing things in the way of the dominant sexual culture, also.

ABSOLUTELY. Just yesterday I got a bunch of dumb comments FROM AN ASEXUAL about how awareness for our community just isn't necessary because it's only the business of our significant others if we have them, and it's better to just be quiet about it. I love the closet, don't you?

How can I join? :)

If you're talking about the collaborative video project, all the details on how to send me a video and what to do in it are in my announcement at this link.

If anyone is inspired, don't forget any of these classics:

Thanks! Some of the Bingos might work well too.

Bingo 1 by jmerry

Bingo 2 by me

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Link's not working :mad:

Which link isn't working for you? Both are valid links and when I click them today they're both loading for me.

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Link's not working :mad:

Which link isn't working for you? Both are valid links and when I click them today they're both loading for me.

How to be an asexual ally. It's probably my computer's fault. It's been weird lately.

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How to be an asexual ally. It's probably my computer's fault. It's been weird lately.

Sorry to hear that . . . perhaps you'll be able to access it another time. Though I probably should say that Good Vibrations magazine is a sexuality magazine and there may be some, uh, questionable advertisements on the side. I always laugh when I review one of my articles for them and I have to do so with an animated rotated ad for vibrators scrolling along the side.

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The video discussed in this thread is now done! We had a total of 16 volunteers for the project, and though some only sent me one or two clips, I felt like it really helped with making it visually interesting and especially with driving home the frequency of some of these comments (when they were featured multiple times). I'm sorry if any of you were hoping to contribute and didn't get a chance. Here's the final product:

Please share everywhere you'd like to. It also has closed captions (like all my videos do) for anyone who's deaf, hearing limited, or possessed of crappy/non-working speakers! :) And let me tell you, editing together more than a dozen different sets of video, each with its own individual background noise that had to be edited out, was difficult. I didn't get the sound perfect on everything, but tried to make it so you could a) hear everything and b) not be knocked over by feedback/buzzing that rose and fell between clips. Some of the clips are a little muddy and there's nothing I can do about it because it was caused by echo or muffled speaking in the originals. Hopefully you guys will love it anyway!

Keep in mind also that this was "Shit People Say to Asexuals," not "Asexual Bingo"--the

I made contains much more offensive and deliberately hurtful comments, while "Shit People Say" is mostly stuff said by people who are well-meaning or supportive or just ignorant. There is an attached info sheet to explain to people why certain phrases were included, in case they can't understand why certain statements or questions might be inappropriate. I hope it'll make a good educational tool as well as being entertaining for other asexuals. ;) Enjoy!
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Awkward Turtle

Hey, swankivy,

I have seen your Asexual Bingo vid, and totally loved it! There's definitely a lot to draw on there for the bones of a S*** People Say to Asexuals video. I'll echo the sentiment that the purpose of S*** Y say to X videos are to challenge deeply held power/privilege ideas, rather than the outright hurtful things that people say. It's more about identifying and challenging the things people say when they mean to be helpful that ARE NOT HELPFUL AT ALL, which I think you get.

So, my vote would be more for the things like:

"Oh, that's so sad."

"It's okay. You'll totally meet someone and it'll all just come together"

"Are you sure it's not a medical thing?"

"My cousin had depression and he couldn't get an erection for months. Is it something like that?"

"Oh, yeah. Sometimes when I'm PMSing, the idea of sex turns me off too. I totally know what you mean."

:) and :cake:

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I have seen your Asexual Bingo vid, and totally loved it!

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I'll echo the sentiment that the purpose of S*** Y say to X videos are to challenge deeply held power/privilege ideas, rather than the outright hurtful things that people say. It's more about identifying and challenging the things people say when they mean to be helpful that ARE NOT HELPFUL AT ALL, which I think you get.

Of course. And interestingly, the girl who made "Shit White Girls Say to Black Girls" publicly stated several times that the statements she highlighted weren't things she considered to be racist. Just insensitive or ignorant. Basically, sometimes people who talk to asexuals don't understand that they're being dismissive, devaluing the asexual's experience/opinion, being condescending, misinterpreting, judging, or just being rude. Most of the statements in Asexual Bingo are the opposite: they were said to shame me, beat me down, make me hurt for claiming to be asexual, try to punish me for it somehow because they don't like being challenged.

I think most people can see that the Asexual Bingo statements are inherently hurtful and delivered in an offensive way. For Shit People Say to Asexuals, I thought it might be more of a learning tool for people who do actually want to understand us. (That's why I included the info sheet to elaborate, too, because you really lose people's attention if you elaborate in the actual video.) I don't want people to feel like they can't ask questions, especially of those of us who are pretty public activists/advocates.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah, I think "cat ladies" are an image people are eager to put on women who aren't married or involved, while I don't think I've ever heard "cat guy" to describe someone people think is oh so lonely and makes up for it by collecting cats just so someone will give him love oh god.

::eyeroll::

Sheldon as a cat guy in the Big Bang Theory:

Leonard as a cat guy in the Big Bang Theory: http://bigbangtheory.wikia.com/wiki/Leonard_Hofstadter

Leonard, if dumped, will go on a two week cycle of emo songs and calling Sheldon down to pet stores to look at cats.

:lol:

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  • 3 months later...
Great Thief Yatagarasu

This girl who does a show called "The Asexuality Chronicles" did her own version of this, full of responses that she herself has personally gotten (I totally laughed at the "You've just been brainwashed by the media!" one, because I've had my MUM tell me that one):

http://blip.tv/theasexualitychronicles/shit-ignorant-people-say-to-this-particular-asexual-5968206

She also did a "Shit Asexuals Say" video, and I admit to laughing at that one - it was loads of things like "Oh, so and so character is SUCH a homoromantic ace!" and "Sherlock is THE BEST."

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  • 1 month later...
Ace Student

From a sexual roommate, unaware of my orientation, when I commented on how much I hate tampons:

"Well, how are you ever going to have sex, then?"

(assuming I'm going to?)

"Once you try it, you'll learn to love it!"

"You should try reading romance novels!"

"I saw you watching that sex scene in that movie!"

(it wasn't a porno, just a regular movie... I don't watch or look at porn!)

"It's God's plan for marriage!"

(is it God's plan for everyone to get married in the first place?)

"It's because you're so logical. Quit overthinking it!"

"Live a little!"

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  • 3 weeks later...

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