Henny

The global youth unemployment crisis

91 posts in this topic

Speaking your mind and not bothering to build up relationships, may affect your prospects. Every company I have worked for, has relied on each of us doing favours for one-another and building up relationships. With my present company, those people who have spoken their mind, well, they've all been made redundant, unfortunately.

Ah, I'm sorry I think I may have come off wrong in that last post. What I meant by it was simply that I feel horribly uncomfortable in new environments which makes me wonderfully withdrawn. If I enjoy the job (or don't abhor it) or even the people, I will open up faster than in other environments. I had a job over my last break and I did not make a single friend because I did not like one person there enough to bother. I also did not attempt to make connections because the job was not in my field of interest, it was simply a job for me.

I don't try to make things difficult either. I don't try to make trouble unless something is happening that I feel is morally wrong. I also don't speak poorly of other people, I tend not to gossip. I have no problem being friendly with people and doing people favors, it's just that I can't do that right off the bat. I apologize for giving the wrong impression, it just seems like the companies I apply to tend to want people who are chipper immediately.

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Theres also another reason younger people might not get a job in te fast food industry and other lower jobs. (this isn't to say that they get a free pass as to why they aren't taking these jobs, just as a way to say that there might be a reason other than they feel too good to take that kind of job).

When I was growing up, I always heard "you have to do well in school and go to college, you don't want to be flipping burgers". And now, we're stuck with a majority of jobs for people without experience to be in the fast food industry, where we were told as children is the job you get when you fail getting into college.

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Theres also another reason younger people might not get a job in te fast food industry and other lower jobs. (this isn't to say that they get a free pass as to why they aren't taking these jobs, just as a way to say that there might be a reason other than they feel too good to take that kind of job).

When I was growing up, I always heard "you have to do well in school and go to college, you don't want to be flipping burgers". And now, we're stuck with a majority of jobs for people without experience to be in the fast food industry, where we were told as children is the job you get when you fail getting into college.

that may be a reason why you don't think you should have to work in fast food. It isn't a reason why you should not take a job in fast food if there's nothing else available.

If you're an adult and on your own, there's no value in complaining about what you were told as a child. You do what you need to do to pay rent and buy food.

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Theres also another reason younger people might not get a job in te fast food industry and other lower jobs. (this isn't to say that they get a free pass as to why they aren't taking these jobs, just as a way to say that there might be a reason other than they feel too good to take that kind of job).

When I was growing up, I always heard "you have to do well in school and go to college, you don't want to be flipping burgers". And now, we're stuck with a majority of jobs for people without experience to be in the fast food industry, where we were told as children is the job you get when you fail getting into college.

that may be a reason why you don't think you should have to work in fast food. It isn't a reason why you should not take a job in fast food if there's nothing else available.

If you're an adult and on your own, there's no value in complaining about what you were told as a child. You do what you need to do to pay rent and buy food.

I know that, and I'd gladly take any job I could find. While there are some people who would rather complain and wait out for a better job, there are tons of others who will take the job. I'm just pointing out that at one time, having a job at fast food was once considered to be the job of a failure to some. I know some older adults (not many) that still hold that view. The reasons some people may feel entitled to a better job might be because of this view, stupid as it is to still have this view with the unemployment rate so high.

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I know some older adults (not many) that still hold that view. The reasons some people may feel entitled to a better job might be because of this view, stupid as it is to still have this view with the unemployment rate so high.

Definitely, a job in a fast food place is not the hope that people hold out for themselves. As far as older adults, the fast food places in my area have a fairly high proportion of older adults working in them. It's really hard to live on Social Security now and most older Americans don't have pensions.

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I don't know about you guys, but when I was unemployed I would have taken a cashier job. The problem is, when there's a huge unemployment crisis in this country, store managers have enough people applying for the job with a high school diploma, so they don't have to hire people with graduate degrees. The "overqualified" issue is an issue. It actually isn't true that anyone can walk out the door and get a crappy job. My mom retired young, at 45 years old, but ended up wanting (and kind of needing) to work again when she was 55. No one would hire an ex-CEO to work at their flower shop or grocery store. She literally couldn't get hired anywhere and ended up starting her own business.

That said, I did have luck working as a temp. A lot of people overlook temp work, but it's not a bad way to go. Then there's people like my girlfriend, who says she can't temp in offices because of her tattoos, piercings, and haircut... well I have no sympathy for those people. Want to look weird because you like to look weird? Fine, but accept that its a choice that you're making... it is definitely not discrimination for someone to not hire you based on something you could easily change.

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Been looking for a job since September... no takers yet, and I just moved to a small town where my chances of employment have fallen drastically. Doesn't mean I won't stop looking, however!

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That said, I did have luck working as a temp. A lot of people overlook temp work, but it's not a bad way to go. Then there's people like my girlfriend, who says she can't temp in offices because of her tattoos, piercings, and haircut... well I have no sympathy for those people. Want to look weird because you like to look weird? Fine, but accept that its a choice that you're making... it is definitely not discrimination for someone to not hire you based on something you could easily change.

This is something that I have to take a bit of issue with. For some, how they choose to modify themselves is about far more than simple physical appearance. There can be a very deep spiritual and personal meaning behind their modifications, as I know is the case for me. Personally, I think it should be something protected in the same way religious expression is protected. I know I am not the only one for whom body modification has an important spiritual meaning.

I understand that in some jobs that involve working directly with the public, there may be certain motivations towards not hiring those who have decided to become modified. There is the idea out there, right or wrong, that in some lines of business to have a piercing or a visible tattoo is to look unprofessional and that can negatively impact customer interactions.

Taking out of the equation direct public jobs for the moment, however, discrimination is discrimination pure and simple. It is NOT ok to decide not to hire someone simply because they have a visible tattoo, especially if they are the most qualified person for the job. If it is not OK to discriminate against transexual people in hiring practices and it is not OK to discriminate against those of different religions than it should likewise not be OK to discriminate against those who choose to modify themselves.

This is coming from the perspective of someone who is not only visibly and increasingly heavily modified, but also someone who has gone into this personal journey with the understanding that it would make being hired in the workplace more difficult. Realistically I acknowledge that in the world we live in, such discriminatory practices are accepted and something that has to be considered in the decision to modify. However, that in no way makes such discrimination right in any sense of the world. Just because I have visible ink and visible piercings does not mean that I am less qualified for the job.

I am fortunate in the fact that I have a good job that I mostly enjoy with an employer that does not discriminate against the visibly modified. I think that, slowly but increasingly more employers are realizing that discriminating because of visible modifications isn't acceptable. Unfortunately it is a very slow process and there are still more that find it acceptable than those that don't.

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I'm sorry but I disagree. Yes, of course if you can do the job just fine and have tattoos (or whatever), then you shouldn't be passed over for a job. But if interacting with clients/ customers/ funders is part of the job, and those people will be put off by your appearance, I think its perfectly fine to pass you over. Your employer shouldn't have to lose money just because of your personal choices. I worked for awhile doing probate law. Death is a pretty conservative field. I had to dress a certain way, I had to have conservative hair. I understood that. I didn't prefer the requirements, but they were there to make the clients feel comfortable, and since the clients have the cashdollars, and I want cashdollars, I have to do what makes them happy. I used to have spiky, cotton candy pink hair and facial piercings. I had a choice. Ditch the look and get the job, or vice versa. It's always going to come down to what you value more - and just because it's not a pleasant choice doesn't mean it's not still a choice. I have no problem with trying to educate society to make them more understanding and accepting of alternative appearances, and if some employers want to take a stand on that issue, more power to them, but they shouldn't have to be economically disadvantaged if they don't want to be.

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I could be totally off base and an elitist ass, but I assumed that in addition to the likelihood that you'll leave your shitty job at the first chance, is also the issue that people don't like to be the boss of someone with significantly more education than them. Same reason why young folk sometimes don't like to hire older employees... its hard to boss around someone who reminds them of their mom.

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I'm sorry but I disagree. Yes, of course if you can do the job just fine and have tattoos (or whatever), then you shouldn't be passed over for a job. But if interacting with clients/ customers/ funders is part of the job, and those people will be put off by your appearance, I think its perfectly fine to pass you over. Your employer shouldn't have to lose money just because of your personal choices. I worked for awhile doing probate law. Death is a pretty conservative field. I had to dress a certain way, I had to have conservative hair. I understood that. I didn't prefer the requirements, but they were there to make the clients feel comfortable, and since the clients have the cashdollars, and I want cashdollars, I have to do what makes them happy. I used to have spiky, cotton candy pink hair and facial piercings. I had a choice. Ditch the look and get the job, or vice versa. It's always going to come down to what you value more - and just because it's not a pleasant choice doesn't mean it's not still a choice. I have no problem with trying to educate society to make them more understanding and accepting of alternative appearances, and if some employers want to take a stand on that issue, more power to them, but they shouldn't have to be economically disadvantaged if they don't want to be.

This is exactly why I put in the stipulation regarding working directly with the public. Honestly I'm really not sure where I stand when it comes to direct public interaction jobs because I really understand and empathize with both sides of the issue. I am inclined to say that, in cases where direct public is involved, appearance has more of an import but it still feels very wrong for me to say that. After all, a Sikh turban is protected against discrimination, so why shouldn't my equally spiritual tattoos not also be protected?

While I do understand where employers are coming from when it comes to direct public interaction jobs, its a much more black and white situation when the job involves little or no direct public interaction. For example, if you work in a closed office where there is no public involved, there should be absolutely no justification for discriminating against someone who is visible modified. In my case, I work in a call center and the only interaction I have with the public is over the phone. I'm lucky enough that my call center doesn't mind my modifications because they are 100% irrelevant to the job, however not all call center jobs are like that. Despite a complete lack of face to face public interaction, there are some call center jobs who will still not hire if you have piercings or visible tattoos and that is completely unacceptable.

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I kind of side with Skullery for the reason that body modification is just one expression of who you are, and most jobs do require leaving some of who you are at the door, unfortunately, much as I wish that would change--heck, much as I think that it's wrong to discriminate that way in most cases. To that extent, it's no more illegitimate to turn down an applicant for tattoos or piercings than for any other way they present them self.

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I kind of side with Skullery for the reason that body modification is just one expression of who you are, and most jobs do require leaving some of who you are at the door, unfortunately, much as I wish that would change--heck, much as I think that it's wrong to discriminate that way in most cases. To that extent, it's no more illegitimate to turn down an applicant for tattoos or piercings than for any other way they present them self.

There are a couple of things to consider in this statement. The first is permanence and the second is the meaning behind the mods. As far as permanence goes, there's a huge difference between a piercing and a tattoo. True, a piercing you can simply take out with very little effort and very little permanent mark. A tattoo or large gauge piercing is difference because once its there, even if its not permanent, its not easily removed. Again, excepting jobs with direct public interaction in which case you might have an argument, I do not believe it reasonable for an employer to expect you to remove a tattoo for the purposes of having a job. A few piercings or tattoos do not impact at all one's ability to do a job.

The second comes down to the import of the modifications. My own modifications have very deep spiritual and personal significance and to remove them would be like removing a major part of myself. If being transexual is protected and being of any particular religion is protected, why is body modification not also protected? I am not the only one whose mods hold spiritual significance, not by a long shot.

Its one thing when one's mods impact one's job. Working with the public is an excellent example of this because they could directly impact customer or client interaction. Working in a kitchen that requires the removal of piercings for sanitary reasons is another good example. It is an entirely different situation when one's mods do not in any way impact their ability to work the job, such as call center work. No client will ever know that I have many hours of tattoo work and subdermal horns so why should that have the least amount of impact on whether or not I get hired? The answer is that it shouldn't.

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Theres also another reason younger people might not get a job in te fast food industry and other lower jobs. (this isn't to say that they get a free pass as to why they aren't taking these jobs, just as a way to say that there might be a reason other than they feel too good to take that kind of job).

When I was growing up, I always heard "you have to do well in school and go to college, you don't want to be flipping burgers". And now, we're stuck with a majority of jobs for people without experience to be in the fast food industry, where we were told as children is the job you get when you fail getting into college.

that may be a reason why you don't think you should have to work in fast food. It isn't a reason why you should not take a job in fast food if there's nothing else available.

If you're an adult and on your own, there's no value in complaining about what you were told as a child. You do what you need to do to pay rent and buy food.

Why not flip burgers until something better comes along? It's a start. You have to start small. It gives you work experience. There is no shame being a college graduate and being a waitress or a janitor or a grocery store clerk. It's honest work. I washed cars when I was a kid, I cleaned houses, too. It was a few bucks, so what the heck.

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Its one thing when one's mods impact one's job. Working with the public is an excellent example of this because they could directly impact customer or client interaction. Working in a kitchen that requires the removal of piercings for sanitary reasons is another good example. It is an entirely different situation when one's mods do not in any way impact their ability to work the job, such as call center work. No client will ever know that I have many hours of tattoo work and subdermal horns so why should that have the least amount of impact on whether or not I get hired? The answer is that it shouldn't.

I think we're all in agreement about this.

Personally I think the public at large should pull their heads out of their asses and realize that tattoos, etc, don't impact a person's ability to do their job. If my accountant had subdermals I wouldn't care one bit. I'd probably think it was cool. Unfortunately not everyone thinks that way. By modifying your body, you are putting your values right out there in the open, making it far easier for people to decide that they don't share your values and judge you for it. I don't feel that it takes away from my beliefs the fact that strangers don't know what they are. I don't need other people to know who I am. Vamp, this isn't directed at you AT ALL -- but I do know people with the tattoos, piercings, awkward haircuts, who seem to think that they are somehow tied up with those physical trappings. Like, if a stranger on the street can't tell that they're a hipster queer, then they are somehow less of a hipster queer. I think that's immature and I don't have much sympathy for any difficulties they run into because of their appearance. At some point we need to grow up and understand that who we are on the inside isn't impacted by what we look like on the outside.

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Surely some young people, especially those who attended college, feel entitled to a better job than they can get.

I've got a friend who is... not so much entitled, but naive. She believes she will be able to get the exact type of job she wants. She doesn't see that being picky is a luxury not many have right now.

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I'm not really interested in debating or proving anything,

Just interested in implying that people are lazy and then running to hide, apparently.

I could list 10 people right now who have followed all the expert advice to get a job and are still unemployed. It comes down to numbers.

Ehh, maybe I should have stayed out of this thread if this is such a sensitive subject to some. One has to remember that in reality this "global" unemployment crisis is rather local in nature. There are some areas in the world where it deeply affects the entire society in general, and some areas where it might not.

Anyway, I suppose I just tried to offer some advice to those who say they absolutely can't get any job at all, which I find rather suspicious since everyone I've known have had no difficulty in getting jobs, regardless of their work or education history. Again, I don't deny that a lot of people might have some problem, and I hope things work out for you. That is all :)

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Surely some young people, especially those who attended college, feel entitled to a better job than they can get.

I've got a friend who is... not so much entitled, but naive. She believes she will be able to get the exact type of job she wants. She doesn't see that being picky is a luxury not many have right now.

I knew a few people like this, too =/

For example, I had a fellow nursing friend who complained about not being able to find a job but when I asked where she applied, she said, "I only want to work in hospitals close to home" (i.e. the same city). After graduating, she didn't find a job until months and months later. In the meantime, I had snapped up a job shortly after graduating - it was far away from home and required me to move out on my own but I was thousands of dollars ahead of her by the time she got hired. Worth it? I think so. After gaining experience where I am now (and I've gained LOTS), I plan to move back close to home eventually, anyway.

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Too many people, too little use for them all.

It is unfortunate to say the least.

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Just thought I'd share a post I found on another forum regarding the same topic:

Tee hee hee! We're hitting the limits of planetary economic growth, essential basic resources are on the verge of becoming luxuries for even governments, and better yet, we're seeing today's old people -- themselves raised in the wake of glorified empire and visibly spoiled as hell -- mocking their own children and grandchildren after they raised them so poorly. Go to university! It's shameful to do hard manual labor! It's for Mexicans to do. Go into massive debt, it's practically part of the package. If the jobs aren't there afterwards, you have to wait. Should have told your parents to keep their pants up and have you be born later. And if you are lucky enough to flip burgers then you'll be yelled for not making something of your life. And besides, are those wages enough for a family and a house -- er, apartment?

You know what I think? I think today's aging Europeans and Americans thought they -- and their children -- could coast by on university degrees, the stock market, generic white collar work and let the darkies do the rest of the real work for the rest of all time. We live in a society where not being rich gets you mocked -- I know, it's happened to me in the past. What kind of mindset does that lead to, collectively?

But alas, the whole system is, you know, unsustainable. Neither "left" nor "right" can clearly fix things and the whole political superstructure is now looking suspect. This isn't even getting into the whole miserable common lifestyles and culture in and of itself, which is so materialistic, rotten, shallow, and youth-obsessed that we're going to start treating 30 year olds as actual kids.

"Training wages" are the absolute best thing in this thread. We used to call that minimum wage, you know, but minimum is too much. Oh, it'll be "spending cash" at best. Just enough to keep from being called slave labor. Let's let today's young (and less and less young) people live with their parents well into their 30's and beyond. Spending cash, though. Can't get a house or even an apartment but they can get toys. How ironic! And let's keep charging first world prices for it all, anyway.

P.S.: a personal anecdote: my last job offer was from the state government and they weren't willing to pay me. I would have had to do the typical white collar work but also manual labor around the office because 1) the employees were too old to do it themselves, I was related to people in there so I could be trusted, and I would have been the one person there young enough to do that sort of thing, and 2) they couldn't afford to actually hire people to pay to do it.

My last PAYING job offers were prostitution in Sydney and some sugardaddy offer in Los Angeles. Hmm. Maybe I can be a valiant capitalist after all and cause significant growth in the private sector!

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Just thought I'd share a post I found on another forum regarding the same topic:

Tee hee hee! We're hitting the limits of planetary economic growth, essential basic resources are on the verge of becoming luxuries for even governments, and better yet, we're seeing today's old people -- themselves raised in the wake of glorified empire and visibly spoiled as hell -- mocking their own children and grandchildren after they raised them so poorly. Go to university! It's shameful to do hard manual labor! It's for Mexicans to do. Go into massive debt, it's practically part of the package. If the jobs aren't there afterwards, you have to wait. Should have told your parents to keep their pants up and have you be born later. And if you are lucky enough to flip burgers then you'll be yelled for not making something of your life. And besides, are those wages enough for a family and a house -- er, apartment?

You know what I think? I think today's aging Europeans and Americans thought they -- and their children -- could coast by on university degrees, the stock market, generic white collar work and let the darkies do the rest of the real work for the rest of all time. We live in a society where not being rich gets you mocked -- I know, it's happened to me in the past. What kind of mindset does that lead to, collectively?

But alas, the whole system is, you know, unsustainable. Neither "left" nor "right" can clearly fix things and the whole political superstructure is now looking suspect. This isn't even getting into the whole miserable common lifestyles and culture in and of itself, which is so materialistic, rotten, shallow, and youth-obsessed that we're going to start treating 30 year olds as actual kids.

"Training wages" are the absolute best thing in this thread. We used to call that minimum wage, you know, but minimum is too much. Oh, it'll be "spending cash" at best. Just enough to keep from being called slave labor. Let's let today's young (and less and less young) people live with their parents well into their 30's and beyond. Spending cash, though. Can't get a house or even an apartment but they can get toys. How ironic! And let's keep charging first world prices for it all, anyway.

P.S.: a personal anecdote: my last job offer was from the state government and they weren't willing to pay me. I would have had to do the typical white collar work but also manual labor around the office because 1) the employees were too old to do it themselves, I was related to people in there so I could be trusted, and I would have been the one person there young enough to do that sort of thing, and 2) they couldn't afford to actually hire people to pay to do it.

My last PAYING job offers were prostitution in Sydney and some sugardaddy offer in Los Angeles. Hmm. Maybe I can be a valiant capitalist after all and cause significant growth in the private sector!

Not the most intelligently thought-out or phrased post in the world. I didn't know before I read it that as an old person, I was "visibly spoiled", nor that I mocked my children.

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Tee hee hee! We're hitting the limits of planetary economic growth, essential basic resources are on the verge of becoming luxuries for even governments, and better yet, we're seeing today's old people -- themselves raised in the wake of glorified empire and visibly spoiled as hell -- mocking their own children and grandchildren after they raised them so poorly. Go to university! It's shameful to do hard manual labor! It's for Mexicans to do. Go into massive debt, it's practically part of the package. If the jobs aren't there afterwards, you have to wait. Should have told your parents to keep their pants up and have you be born later. And if you are lucky enough to flip burgers then you'll be yelled for not making something of your life. And besides, are those wages enough for a family and a house -- er, apartment?

You know what I think? I think today's aging Europeans and Americans thought they -- and their children -- could coast by on university degrees, the stock market, generic white collar work and let the darkies do the rest of the real work for the rest of all time. We live in a society where not being rich gets you mocked -- I know, it's happened to me in the past. What kind of mindset does that lead to, collectively?

But alas, the whole system is, you know, unsustainable. Neither "left" nor "right" can clearly fix things and the whole political superstructure is now looking suspect. This isn't even getting into the whole miserable common lifestyles and culture in and of itself, which is so materialistic, rotten, shallow, and youth-obsessed that we're going to start treating 30 year olds as actual kids.

"Training wages" are the absolute best thing in this thread. We used to call that minimum wage, you know, but minimum is too much. Oh, it'll be "spending cash" at best. Just enough to keep from being called slave labor. Let's let today's young (and less and less young) people live with their parents well into their 30's and beyond. Spending cash, though. Can't get a house or even an apartment but they can get toys. How ironic! And let's keep charging first world prices for it all, anyway.

P.S.: a personal anecdote: my last job offer was from the state government and they weren't willing to pay me. I would have had to do the typical white collar work but also manual labor around the office because 1) the employees were too old to do it themselves, I was related to people in there so I could be trusted, and I would have been the one person there young enough to do that sort of thing, and 2) they couldn't afford to actually hire people to pay to do it.

My last PAYING job offers were prostitution in Sydney and some sugardaddy offer in Los Angeles. Hmm. Maybe I can be a valiant capitalist after all and cause significant growth in the private sector!

First thought: Jesus fucking christ that's stupid.

Subsequent thoughts: How does one get a job offer for prostitution and/or sugardaddyism without actively seeking them out? How is accepting a state internship a bad thing? In what way does being an intern make you a victim? I worked many internships in my life and was glad to do it. I actually got my first real grown up job after working as an Americorps VISTA for a year. I got my foot into the Portland legal scene by working for free at a law firm for 6 months. In no way do I think I was a "slave". I was given an opportunity to learn. How fucking selfish does a person have to be to think they should be paid for learning?

Re: spoiled, mocking old people? You don't want people to discriminate against you for being young? You may want to shrug off that HUGE chip you have on your shoulder first.

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The "overqualified" issue is an issue.

Hells yes. There are several stores I would love to work at but they won't hire me.

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The "overqualified" issue is an issue.

Hells yes. There are several stores I would love to work at but they won't hire me.

There are two fairly rational reasons for not hiring overqualified people:

1. Many employers have had the experience of overqualified people exhibiting a patronizing attitude toward fellow employees doing the same job (I've witnessed this happening)

2. Many employers have had overqualified people leave as soon as they can find a job that suits their education (I've witnessed this happening also)

That's a tough situation for the overqualifieds in a tight job market, but the reality is that employers hire people they think are best for the job that's open.

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The "overqualified" issue is an issue.

Hells yes. There are several stores I would love to work at but they won't hire me.

Maybe then don't tell them you are "over-qualified?" Don't tell them all of your work history or education. Cut stuff off your resume... Try that. See if it works.

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If you want work somewhere, become a regular.

Interact with them, don't go overboard, but interact with the people there enough for them to feel that you are not just another resume or customer. If you're interested in a certain line of work, ask questions, in person or through letters. Make connections.

It's how I got my work at an independent used video game shop. I've been frequenting the place since it opened, and when there was a position, they called me up, we did an interview and they hired me. I've been there for a year and a half, it's not much, definitely nothing I could ever live on, but it's a start.

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I get worried when I see reports like this.

As with any advanced society living under false paradigms: they who have the most to lose, will be the last to wake up.

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As with any advanced society living under false paradigms: they who have the most to lose, will be the last to wake up.

You don't get "most to lose" by sleeping in. In a early-bird-catches-the-worm kind of way.

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