Member33070 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 This thread is under construction, as this subforum is still rather new and we are still gathering all the information we can find on it. If you have any edits to make to this post, please PM me instead of posting here. I will then make the edits. Since this will hopefully be stickied once the kinks are ironed out, I want to keep it pretty...silly edits can just go to PM...lol. If you have any useful information for this thread, feel free to share. WHAT IS GRAY? First, let's start with what gray is not. Gray is not asexual: An asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. (source)Gray is a part of the asexuality spectrum, because grays do not experience sexual attraction in exactly same style that sexuals do. By the way: Sexual is the opposite of asexual. That is, a sexual person (noun form: a sexual) is a person who experiences sexual attraction. (source)Yes, grays experience some level of sexual attraction (otherwise, they would be asexual). But not to the same extent that sexuals do. To oversimplify things, grays are everything "between" asexual and sexual. To give a visual, take a look at the AVEN triangle. To approximate levels of sexual attraction, take asexuals as the black tip, and sexuals as the white edge at the top. The two upper points of the triangle represent heterosexuality and homosexuality, with bisexuality in the middle. Pansexuality, unfortunately, has to approximate to the biological gender binary. Grays would fit in the "gray area" between asexual and sexual. For simplicity's sake, many people who are close to asexual simply identify as asexual. Likewise, people who are very close to sexual may choose to identify as fully sexual. But what is this gray area exactly? From the AVEN wiki article on Gray-A: Asexuality and sexuality are not black and white; some people identify in the gray (spelled "grey" in some countries) area between them. People who identify as gray-A can include, but are not limited to those who: do not normally experience sexual attraction, but do experience it sometimes experience sexual attraction, but a low sex drive experience sexual attraction and drive, but not strongly enough to want to act on them people who can enjoy and desire sex, but only under very limited and specific circumstances people who experience some parts of sexuality but not others Some people choose to identify with the gray area, even though most AVENites would consider them asexual, because they prefer a narrower definition of asexuality than AVEN's. For example, an asexual with a sex drive who prefers the nonlibidoist definition of asexuality might identify as semisexual rather than asexual. Similarly, some people who might technically belong to the gray area choose to identify as asexual because it is easier to explain. For example, if someone has experienced sexual attraction on one or two brief, fleeting occasions in their life, they might prefer to call themselves asexual because it is not worth the bother of having to explain these one or two occasions to everyone who asks about their orientation (source)This definition has been worked on over time, starting with a long discussion in the AVEN forums. In the past, people with low sexual attraction were referred to as hyposexual: Hyposexual can be used as a catch-all term for the gray area, but in standard medical parlance the term refers to a sexual person with a low sex drive.[1] This can be a lifelong condition or occur because of stress or changing hormone levels. Most professionals consider hyposexuality a sexual dysfunction, but on AVEN the consensus is that, like asexuality, it should not be treated as a disorder if it does not cause the hyposexual person any distress. (source)A good discussion on the gray spectrum (using the hyposexual term of old) can be found here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/19379-hyposexuals-semisexuals-demisexuals-pseudosexuals-unite/ This discussion is where many of the definitions were ironed out and determined to be acceptable. Not all of the definitions on the original post were kept. Since then, some topics have come up that have further attempted to pin down the difference between asexuals and grays, as well as the difference between sexuals and grays. To get a better idea of the gray spectrum, I created a poll that asks how often grays experience sexual attraction, whether they have libidos or fetishes, etc. Find it here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/64720-grays-ive-got-some-questions-for-you/ Alright, got this much up...I have apartment hunting to do. If you have any more ideas for sources, let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 A question that's been in my mind for rather long: what are "some parts of sexuality and not others"? Does it mean, for instance, that a gray might desire a kind of intercourse (e.g. oral) and not another (e.g. "traditional")? By experiencing sexuality, do you mean there's an actual desire for that part of sexuality to be experienced? A little reference to my own case (might be TMI): By experiencing it, I have found out that I enjoy mutual manual stimulation in a couple, and may "want" it sometimes - sort of, since I could do without just fine anyway. So I'm basically evaluating my level of grayness out of curiosity. Link to post Share on other sites
Rebuilder Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 A question that's been in my mind for rather long: what are "some parts of sexuality and not others"? Does it mean, for instance, that a gray might desire a kind of intercourse (e.g. oral) and not another (e.g. "traditional")? By experiencing sexuality, do you mean there's an actual desire for that part of sexuality to be experienced? A little reference to my own case (might be TMI): By experiencing it, I have found out that I enjoy mutual manual stimulation in a couple, and may "want" it sometimes - sort of, since I could do without just fine anyway. So I'm basically evaluating my level of grayness out of curiosity. Gosh, I've been pretty thinking the same for a while now. Well, I guess it might be tied in with fetishism, for example Asexuals may be able to enjoy say S/M with someone who shared the same fetish as them. So having an interest for 'alternate' forms of sex or mutual masturbation could fall within the sphere of (Grey-)asexuality. Or maybe Greys could view Sexuality (umbrella term) as something they could stay afloat without. Just my thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 We're also talking about this on the demigrace forum if any of y'all are interested Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Gosh, I've been pretty thinking the same for a while now. Well, I guess it might be tied in with fetishism, for example Asexuals may be able to enjoy say S/M with someone who shared the same fetish as them. So having an interest for 'alternate' forms of sex or mutual masturbation could fall within the sphere of (Grey-)asexuality. Or maybe Greys could view Sexuality (umbrella term) as something they could stay afloat without. Just my thoughts. That's the reason why I identify as asexual. Apart from not really feeling sexual attraction (since what I put in spoiler, I mostly like because it feels good and not because I get the urge to do it with someone), I also DON'T want sex. I'm not indifferent to it, I just don't want it. If I were gray, I wouldn't mind it. Link to post Share on other sites
SorryNotSorry Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Instead of infinitely variable shades of gray, I'm understanding it as a merging of black and white stripes of opposing incremental thinnesses, if that makes any sense to you. The definitions I've read from other posters so far re demis sound to me like "sorta feel sexual attraction, sorta feel the urge to have sex"... but to me this makes no sense. Either you do or you don't, there is no "sorta". It's like saying something "sorta" exists. Forgive me if I sound like I'm grandstanding, but when I learned what a "demivierge" was (literally, half-virgin), that cleared it up for me: a demivierge does all the things which could be considered lovemaking except actual sex (the person who gave me the definition made no mention of oral sex, but I'd categorize it as sex). So to me, "demi" means someone who experiences sexual attraction (in my case, hetero), but who has no desire whatsoever to participate in sex. That describes me to a T. Additionally, in my case, "demi" even extends to my fantasies about the opposite sex. So... all demis can be considered "gray" (or at least somewhere along the B&W stripe ratio scale), but not all grays are demis. Link to post Share on other sites
Tegid Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 The way I view it, demisexual and demiromantic are both cases of "experiencing one half of the attraction, but not the other half, whether or not you experience either half of the drive." Attraction type 1: attraction based on externally-detectable information, which means it can be directed at anybody, including total strangers; this can include their physicality, social status, anything at all that you can tell just by looking or listening or smelling, without necessarily knowing them closely Attraction type 2: attraction based on information that can only be gleaned after you know somebody an extended time, such as trustworthiness, kindness, intelligence, and any degree of emotional or trust-bond you develop with them Drive type 1: the drive or desire to actually engage in a romantic relationship or sexual activity just to get pleasure, physical or emotional, from it Drive type 2: the drive or desire to actually engage in a romantic relationship or sexual activity for reasons unrelated to your own pleasure, such as creating or having help in raising children, financial benefit, the OTHER person's pleasure, social benefit of having a partner, etc. In the case of a demisexual or demiromantic, at least one of the attractions (typically type 1) is "missing", or underdeveloped or ignored. The other one is present. If both types of attraction are missing entirely, they are asexual and/or aromantic. In the case of a semisexual or semiromantic, at least one of the drives/desires (typically type 1) is "missing", or underdeveloped or ignore. The other one is present. If both types of drive/desire are missing entirely, they are nonsexual (no libido) and/or nonromantic (disinterested in romantic relationships, period). A person who experiences "less than one, but not neither" or "less than both, but not all of both" would fit anywhere else in the grey-ace/grey-aromantic and hyposexual/hyporomantic spectra. Demi- and semi- are relatively specific points on the overall spectrum, which you arrive at when you realize you experience only one attraction or only one drive. There are other types of attraction and desire, such as aesthetic, physical/sensual, kinetic, fantasy, platonic, and so on... but at least right now, these are treated as essentially independent of romance and sexuality, because unlike the drives and desires, one can have any or all of them to a high degree without being remotely sexual or romantic, while having any degree of romantic or sexual drives or desires kinda' pulls you out of "total aromantic nonlibidinistic ace" and into the realm of grey/hypo- romantic/sexual. Ermn... I hope this has made sense? :) Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 What is Gray? Birdie don't hurt me Don't hurt me No more~ ... Now then, time to make this post actually worth something so she actually *doesn't* hurt me. The definitions I've read from other posters so far re demis sound to me like "sorta feel sexual attraction, sorta feel the urge to have sex"... but to me this makes no sense. I would guess it's somewhat like not being sure of whether or not you're hungry. Maybe that never happens to some people, but it certainly does happen with me. By the way, demisexual just means that you only experience sexual attraction under the condition of an emotional/romantic connection with another person; it won't just happen for the random guy/gal walking down the street. In that sense, yes, it can be considered a subcategory of gray. Link to post Share on other sites
SorryNotSorry Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 By the way, demisexual just means that you only experience sexual attraction under the condition of an emotional/romantic connection with another person; it won't just happen for the random guy/gal walking down the street. In that sense, yes, it can be considered a subcategory of gray. I'll buy that. It's not the "any old cow/bull" mentality of promiscuity. Link to post Share on other sites
Epochryphal Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 It's not the "any old cow/bull" mentality of promiscuity. Whoa. That sounds way too much like slut-shaming for me to be at all comfortable not commenting. Grey and demi identities are about attraction, not behavior. Anyone of any identity whatsoever, who feels any level of attraction (or lack thereof), can go forth and have sex with any number of people (or none). To actually have sex with someone, sexual attraction is not a requirement. Demisexuality gets accused of being inherently slut-shaming because it gets misinterpreted as this moral high ground of behavior. Actually, it's simply describing an internal experience. Link to post Share on other sites
SorryNotSorry Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Demisexuality gets accused of being inherently slut-shaming because it gets misinterpreted as this moral high ground of behavior. Actually, it's simply describing an internal experience. I understand and agree. This is how we know that "dirty virgins" are not oxymorons. Link to post Share on other sites
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