To Sexual Partners

[ColBrandon]

[quote name='loving_partner' date='Jun 20 2009, 09:59 AM' post='1310503'

And it's not necessarily just sex - even if an asexual partner is willing to compromise and engage in the act that might not be enough. To quote a cheesy song, "I want you to want me, I need you to need me" - as a sexual, I need to feel desired. Sometimes I want to be pursued - sometimes I want my partner to be the initiator. And every time, I need to feel that she wants this and wants to be here with me. She may not be capable of that.

Thanks loving_partner, this is exactly the issue that has come up between my wife and I. I wonder how many of the other sexuals reading this board feel the same way?

[Hallucigenia]

And it's not necessarily just sex - even if an asexual partner is willing to compromise and engage in the act that might not be enough. To quote a cheesy song, "I want you to want me, I need you to need me" - as a sexual, I need to feel desired. Sometimes I want to be pursued - sometimes I want my partner to be the initiator. And every time, I need to feel that she wants this and wants to be here with me. She may not be capable of that.

Thanks loving_partner, this is exactly the issue that has come up between my wife and I. I wonder how many of the other sexuals reading this board feel the same way?

I'm not dating an asexual, but it's essentially the same for me. Feeling desired is a big part of it.

[Issac313]

I have been having similar issues with my partner. I am sexual and she is asexual. The topic of sex is always awkward for us. its not that i have an overbearing need to have sex, its just ive always believed it was part of a loving caring relationship. ever since she came into my life 3 years ago ive been changing a lot of my perspectives on things.

For one thing i never knew what asexuality was until i became intimate with her. she told me she was asexual one night, thinking that it would be the end of us. that i would not want a relationship with no prospect of sex. this in fact is where we began dating officially. i didnt see her asexuality as a big deal. After facing my own emotional issues, with much of her help, i was thankful to just be able to feel happy in life. sex was just as out of reach as a real feeling human connection for me. but sex didnt rank anywhere near feeling the love i do for her now.

This is my first real relationship ive had since i stopped suppressing my emotions. Its my first serious caring relationship. it was something i never had before. i was so excited to just hold her hand or smell her hair as i held her in my arms that sex was far from the front of my mind. but it is there. it may be a little but it is there. ive thought of the compromises that are talked about in these forums but she has difficulty with just the touching we do now.

The issue that sex causes is from both of us. She is repulsed by the idea of sex. it makes her anxious and nervous just thinking about it. even kissing her would hurt her and that is something i can not bear to ever do. for me, im a heterosexual male and im a virgin. i always thought of sex as something you saved for someone you loved. without a doubt i know we love eachother. one night i told her how i felt, that i loved her and was attracted to her in so many ways including sexually. but i knew she was asexual and how she felt about it, how much her idea of sex was nothing like my own. i could never hurt her, id rather die. but it was sad admitting the nagging thought in my mind that i wanted sex. i had suppressed it like i had my emotions for a long time, believing that to give into those impulses would go against my personal ethics of what a man should be. but i told her and out of all that she said that she would be willing to try to have sex.

i knew she was asexual and that sex gave her nothing but anxiety, pain, and boredom. when she made that offer i was disgusted at myself for thinking of accepting it. that i would use her love for me to make her have sex, that i would hurt her just to make me feel good for a few minutes. she had to help me to understand. that she could try sex willing and i would not hurt her by accepting it. she said that she would be very bad at faking it, probably be bored, and might giggle a bit. but i would not hurt her by doing it. it is that part that has me considering it. i love her and want a family with her, i just never saw how it could be possible. but i still wish that the experience could be shared, that my feelings could be reflected in hers.

So now i get to the part where i poll the audience. does it seem possible that an asexual who is repelled by sex and contact as my girlfriend is, could really have sex out of love with no severe or lasting emotional/mental harm? i dont have an extreme desire for it but being a virgin its enough that i know it wont go away. i dont think i could ever do something like put a time table or demand for sex. the option of a poly or open relationship with someone else was offered by her before but i just couldnt be with someone else with my feelings for her. it would feel to much like betrayal. i believe that sex is something that belongs to the person you love, even if they dont want it. i could never live with myself if i hurt her. she helped me in on of the worst time of my life. she was the reason i got help for my personality disorder and reconnected to my emotions in the first place. i owe my capability for love and happiness to her. even through all that she offers to help me in another way at possible risk to herself. do i even have the right to accept that? is there some other way i should try dealing with my impulses for sex if i cant?

[Sally]

Maybe you're overthinking (or overfeeling) this. She's offered; she said she'd probably be bored and maybe giggle, but she's made clear she's ready to try it. You're simply not going to know how it works out until you try it. Asexuals exist on a wide continuum; some of us have sex and actually like it, although we're not impelled to do it like sexuals are; some of us can stand it but it's nothing interesting; others are really repulsed. If she were repulsed, she probably would not have offered to try it. In any case, all your worries are just conjectures, and probably overthought conjectures; it is unlikely that she will be mentally or emotionally damaged. Talk with her more, but not forever. Sooner or later you should take her at her word and try it.

[AVENCakes]

i love her and want a family with her, i just never saw how it could be possible. but i still wish that the experience could be shared, that my feelings could be reflected in hers.

There are ways to have children without sex. First- adoption is always an option. An adopted child can be just as much your own child as one that shares your genetics. Second- you don't need intercourse to get the sperm to the egg. I'm not talking about anything fancy, but essentially the turkey baster method- you masturbate into a cup, suck the sperm into a turkey baster (or similar) and squirt it up there. If you have the money, there's a great many other options, too.

does it seem possible that an asexual who is repelled by sex and contact as my girlfriend is, could really have sex out of love with no severe or lasting emotional/mental harm?

You need to talk with her about this. If she says she's okay with it, she mroe than likely is, but that it'd cause her pain to be kissed makes it a bit more concerning. I, personally, don't think I could have sex- but I also wouldn't say I could, and I still feel like that even though I've found a way to be with my partner sexually so compromise might be an option. I agree that there shouldn't be any lasting mental damage, you aren't raping her.

Also, some advice:

Discuss this and try to find out if there's anything that would make her more comfortable, anything that you absolutely shouldn't do. Discuss it with the plans of doing it, but accept if she realizes she can't do it (don't expect her to, but be aware of the possibility).

Try to find a way to make it so you don't feel like you're forcing her or taking advantage of her, because that won't make it easier for either of you to enjoy this.

Make sure she's aroused as possible, if arousal isn't possible use plenty of lubricant or else it'll hurt way more than it should. If you're using condoms- make sure the lubricant won't eat through the condom.

I've heard that inserting fingers into her (start with one, work up to 3 or so) can lessen the pain of the first time some because it stretches it out- ask if that might help. It's something she can do to herself privately if she'd prefer. I don't know how long this takes- I've never done it- but don't rush it and watch out for fingernails. The point is to lessen the pain, not add to it.

i believe that sex is something that belongs to the person you love, even if they dont want it.

Could you love her and love someone else? If not- you couldn't do poly, it's just not an option. If so, that's what poly is. You love her completely, you also love any other partners completely.

Polyamory is the idea that you can love more than one person. If you had children- you'd love all of them, right? You probably love your family members, your friends. You can love more than one person non-romantically, a polyamorous person is one that can also love more than one person romantically.

As I said- not everyone is poly. If you couldn't love someone else while loving her, then there's your answer. But it isn't a betrayal and won't hurt anyone involved when done correctly.

i owe my capability for love and happiness to her. even through all that she offers to help me in another way at possible risk to herself. do i even have the right to accept that? is there some other way i should try dealing with my impulses for sex if i cant?

You have the right to accept it, if you think it's on the level.

[Issac313]

Thanks for the quick reply RDraconis. I know there are other ways to have a family without sex. adoption and fertility methods are a possibility. its just that she has always wanted to have one naturally. with the mountain that is sex this would seem unlikely. perhaps we want most what we cant have. but we are both proof that we can have what we never thought we could. our relationship existing is one such thing, perhaps children could be another.

The problem with sex that she described to me is that she tried so hard to be something she was not. in past relationships she tried to act heterosexual and it tore her up inside. the self loathing she described alone made me never want to consider sex. we have both improved much from who we were before our relationship. i can feel almost like a normal person and she is almost comfortable with closeness to me. i would never put myself in a position the hurt her, especially old wounds.

But as my feelings opened up for her i realized that i was also attracted to her sexually. with one came the other. i considered suppressing them like i had once done with my emotions. To kill my attraction like that would most likely destroy by emotions as well. so when i brought my dilemma to her i told her that i could not live like before. i could not kill my love for her. but i still have desires of a sexual. and this is where she made the offer of a compromise. she offered to try sex. i knew what it had done to her in the past to do it. but she told me that it would be like seeing herself in the 3rd person. if she had time to prepare for it she said she should be ok.

my issues with it is that the sex would be one sided. she would get nothing out of it. she can get aroused but never around other people, only by herself. this killed me and some of my beliefs about sex because i could never please her in that way. it makes even considering it extremely difficult for me. it would be only one sided. to me i see that as exploiting her love for sex, as if i forced her in some passive way. best case scenario im happy for 5 minutes and ive made her disgusted in herself for a week. im not sure if its worth it. maybe it can work out better than i expect, but thats if she can detach and go 3rd person for the whole thing. There are some hot buttons that she said i should never press. one is kissing. it is too close to fake those emotions and responses. as well as being something that would hurt her despite anything i could try.

she did offer some ways that i could make it up to her. my whole focus of beliefs about sex is centered about my partner and what i can do for them, so this kinda filled that. though it would not be pleasing her directly she can get aroused herself. there is this European monstrosity of a vibrator that she said would make an amazing Christmas gift. it may be just the thing i need to help her satisfy herself. im trying not to see it as buying a gift for sex.

As far as Polyamory goes i dont think i could ever do that and live with myself. to love her fully and then love someone else would feel like a betrayal to one and cheating the other. even when she suggested other ways it would only be to satisfy my sexual feelings. i would always be loyal to her and could never give equally to another while im with her. she did suggest things that i was more morally objected to like a one night stand or prostitute. even if i could lower my values of sex i would still feel like i cheated my girlfriend out of that part of me that should be hers.

So this leaves us in an awkward situation. i think i might be ok with trying sex if im sure it wont hurt her. i can focus on that i can make her happy later. she might be able to detach in an out of body way and hopefully it isnt too much for her.

[happylife]

Issac313

Why do you keep thinking you are going to hurt her even though you (and me) know you are the last person in the world that's going to deliberately hurt her? Why do you keep seeing things from your sexual point of view? Probably because you're a sexual. :P Well, let's say I live in a kingdom where most of the people love rock climbing. But I happen to be one of those that doesn't like this exciting outdoor activity. I would just love to see my husband doing it and enjoying it sitting on the grass near the rocks. The sex would very likely be one sided. But that doesn't necessarily mean it would hurt your partner unless you are forcing yourself on her, I mean, not you "feeling as if", but literally raping her or ignoring the word "No!". I would be much happier if my partner didn't care much whether I was experiencing sexual pleasure because I would feel some kind of pressure and discomfort if they did. If you say you're afraid you might feel like you are a bad person getting pleasure while your partner is not getting any, I would like to tell you that I don't think that would make you a bad person as long as you are not forcing her to share something with you that she never said she would love to or be willing to do.

My one and only advice is this: communicate. Openly and honestly communicate your feelings to each other. Ask her to let you know immediately if it's too much for her. Don't worry too much about anything until it's become a real issue between the two of you. And stop assuming and start asking her.

[loving_partner]

Well, let's say I live in a kingdom where most of the people love rock climbing. But I happen to be one of those that doesn't like this exciting outdoor activity. I would just love to see my husband doing it and enjoying it sitting on the grass near the rocks. The sex would very likely be one sided. But that doesn't necessarily mean it would hurt your partner unless you are forcing yourself on her, I mean, not you "feeling as if", but literally raping her or ignoring the word "No!".

I'm starting to understand this myself. One-sided sex isn't the most fulfilling, and someday you might get to the point where it's not enough, but sometimes you need to take what she's capable of giving and try to be happy together. Ask yourself - would you honestly be happier not being sexual with her at all? That she's willing to try to make this compromise with you says something about how much she cares.

But I understand your point of view - sometimes this feels pretty awful.

I would be much happier if my partner didn't care much whether I was experiencing sexual pleasure

Another paradox in the making - If I didn't care whether my partner was experiencing pleasure, I wouldn't be the kind of man she wants to be with. I think that it's because I'm gentle, giving and I watch out for her needs that she can trust me and open up to me as much as she does. Maybe that's not true for everyone.

My one and only advice is this: communicate. Openly and honestly communicate your feelings to each other. Ask her to let you know immediately if it's too much for her. Don't worry too much about anything until it's become a real issue between the two of you. And stop assuming and start asking her.

Agreed. These forums have been a good place to get advice, bounce ideas off people and generally clear your head, but nothing is getting resolved until it's you and your partner talking together.

[Issac313]

Thanks for the replies. I know communication is key, its what our relationship was based on and began with. I only know these things about her because she has told me how it is. she tells me when ever she has reached her limit for a night. she told me how she feels about sex and every thing she ever said didnt sound promising. its only because this compromise came up that she has considered sex. I know i wont be raping her, but from what i have learned about some asexuals in these forums, it could still be damaging even with consent. im not sure if i can not care about how she feels so not being concerned if she feels pleasure might not be possible. but ill have to see how an indirect compromise helps with that. my only concern is her. so if it does work out great but if it doesnt work out ill find a way to live without it.

[AVENCakes]

The problem with sex that she described to me is that she tried so hard to be something she was not. in past relationships she tried to act heterosexual and it tore her up inside. the self loathing she described alone made me never want to consider sex. we have both improved much from who we were before our relationship. i can feel almost like a normal person and she is almost comfortable with closeness to me. i would never put myself in a position the hurt her, especially old wounds.

There's a difference between having sex out of love and doing forcing yourself to be normal. This is why visibility is such a huge deal- when you're true to yourself, the self-loathing vastly decreases. She isn't forcing herself to be straight or sexual, she's fully accepting herself as asexual while making a choice to do something extremely intimate with her partner. There might be a bit of difficulty at first, it might bring up unpleasant memories and feelings that you'll have to take time to get past, but I think she'll be fine.

I can't give advice on teh one-sidedness, I think lovingpartner covered that.

[Sally]

I'm even more wondering now if you're trying to take on the role of "producer". She will be an equal partner in anything; if she decides to do it, that's her decision, not yours. You can't be and shouldn't feel yourself responsible for any mental/emotional difficulty anything causes her, unless you've done something deliberately to hurt her, which it doesn't sound like you have or will. She apparently doesn't think you will either, or she wouldn't have suggested this. The fact that she helped you when you needed help, and that she's been hurt in the future, doesn't mean that you have to guarantee that she will never be hurt again. You simply can't do that; it's her life and she has decision-making power over it. You also can't guarantee that it will turn out OK for you.

There really is no way to know what will happen except to do it.

[happylife]

Another paradox in the making - If I didn't care whether my partner was experiencing pleasure, I wouldn't be the kind of man she wants to be with. I think that it's because I'm gentle, giving and I watch out for her needs that she can trust me and open up to me as much as she does. Maybe that's not true for everyone.

If you may be the kind of man she wants to be with, you are not the kind of man I want to be with if you feel more fulfilled and satisfied when your partner finds joy in doing sexual activities with you. The reason is simple. Not being touched too much during sex is what I need.

[happylife]

but from what i have learned about some asexuals in these forums, it could still be damaging even with consent.

Has she had similar experiences?

ill have to see how an indirect compromise helps with that.

Can I ask what an indirect compromise here means or would be like?

my only concern is her.

You should be your concern, too. You are wanting to have sex. With her. Only her. Very much. But you cannot break free from the annoying feeling that you might end up hurting her. This is such a painful dilemma.

[loving_partner]

Another paradox in the making - If I didn't care whether my partner was experiencing pleasure, I wouldn't be the kind of man she wants to be with. I think that it's because I'm gentle, giving and I watch out for her needs that she can trust me and open up to me as much as she does. Maybe that's not true for everyone.

If you may be the kind of man she wants to be with, you are not the kind of man I want to be with if you feel more fulfilled and satisfied when your partner finds joy in doing sexual activities with you. The reason is simple. Not being touched too much during sex is what I need.

That's why these are incompatible needs. That my partner feels nothing is a killjoy - I care about her, and I can't feel pleasure knowing that my pleasure brings her discomfort. To be comfortable just "having my way with her", I would have to be a very different, much more selfish person. If I were that selfish person, she wouldn't be comfortable enough with me to be willing to be sexual in the first place.

Because she loves me, she's willing to even though she doesn't want it. Because she doesn't want it, it will never be fulfilling for me. I don't see any way around that.

[Issac313]

well i talked it over with her. we decided to pull back and wait for a while. the prospect of considering sex was indeed difficult for her as i feared. i dont want to force this on her. i know that the only sure way that she could rationalize sex is for the sake of children and we are not ready for that. i do have a better understanding of how she thinks and views sex. her reactions as an asexual are rather severe. she has an instinctual disgust of kissing sex and touching. for no other reason that can be seen other than asexuality. It is nice to know that the cause is not from me but that also means there is not much i can affect the situation. if there where problems caused by me i might be able to do something about them.

the indirect compromise happylife, was the gift i could get her that might help her please herself. from her past experiences with sex she had taken a detachment policy. when ever she tried it she would pull away in the third person and detach. like seeing yourself from the outside. but she said that with me, love would make detaching impossible. yes i know you say i should be concerned with myself as well happylife, but thats the benefit of circular logic. if she is happy i am happy because she is. if she is sad then i will be sad, even if its doing something to make me happy. but i can be happy even when im sad, if its by making her happy. so concern for only her is still by association concern for myself.

[happylife]

That's why these are incompatible needs. That my partner feels nothing is a killjoy - I care about her, and I can't feel pleasure knowing that my pleasure brings her discomfort. To be comfortable just "having my way with her", I would have to be a very different, much more selfish person. If I were that selfish person, she wouldn't be comfortable enough with me to be willing to be sexual in the first place.

Because she loves me, she's willing to even though she doesn't want it. Because she doesn't want it, it will never be fulfilling for me. I don't see any way around that.

If someone is having sex with me, making sure I don't experience pain, fully respecting my needs and wants, that is, making it simple and quick, then I don't think it's having their way with me and that they are being selfish. If anything, they are showing me they are a very patient and caring person.

[happylife]

well i talked it over with her. we decided to pull back and wait for a while. the prospect of considering sex was indeed difficult for her as i feared.

The best, surest way to find an answer is to ask someone who can give it to you. Asking is a very good thing.

i know that the only sure way that she could rationalize sex is for the sake of children and we are not ready for that.

I find this to be a very strange idea. I fail to see any reason for her to need to rationalize sex. Nowadays there are many ways you can have children without sex.

her reactions as an asexual are rather severe. she has an instinctual disgust of kissing sex and touching. for no other reason that can be seen other than asexuality.

Not all asexuals dislike sex and kissing. In fact, many asexuals have no problem expressing their love passionately. Some love cuddling. Some don't mind kissing. Some find they enjoy sex. The one thing asexuals all share is lack of sexual attraction.

the indirect compromise happylife, was the gift i could get her that might help her please herself.

How about this? Ask her what pleases her. Again, stop assuming, start asking.

yes i know you say i should be concerned with myself as well happylife, but thats the benefit of circular logic. if she is happy i am happy because she is. if she is sad then i will be sad, even if its doing something to make me happy. but i can be happy even when im sad, if its by making her happy. so concern for only her is still by association concern for myself.

You can't make her unhappy because when she's unhappy, you're unhappy. But it's okay for you to be sad. Then do you think she could be happy when you are sad?

[Sally]

You can't make her unhappy because when she's unhappy, you're unhappy. But it's okay for you to be sad. Then do you think she could be happy when you are sad?

It's quite a responsibility--actually, it can be heavy pressure--to know that your state of mind controls someone else's.

[Glenn]

You can't make her unhappy because when she's unhappy, you're unhappy. But it's okay for you to be sad. Then do you think she could be happy when you are sad?

It's quite a responsibility--actually, it can be heavy pressure--to know that your state of mind controls someone else's.

Not terribly. Really, if someone you love is miserable- could you be happy? When I'm doing something I love, if someone in the room is clearly miserable, even someone I dislike, I can't enjoy it because they're that unhappy.

It' must be quite an existence, knowing you can be the happy while a person you love clearly isn't. I hope you enjoy it, but I certainly couldn't associate with someone like that.

[Olivier]

I'm with Sally. The healthy response to a loved one being miserable is concern, not automatically joining their misery. That's just dependency, and adult dependants are a burden that the miserable rarely need.

[Sally]

Really, if someone you love is miserable- could you be happy? When I'm doing something I love, if someone in the room is clearly miserable, even someone I dislike, I can't enjoy it because they're that unhappy.

It' must be quite an existence, knowing you can be the happy while a person you love clearly isn't. I hope you enjoy it, but I certainly couldn't associate with someone like that.

But that's not what I said. I said that it is a lot of pressure feeling that your state of mind completely controls someone else -- in other words, they're completely dependent on your mood. That has nothing to do with being happy when someone else is miserable.

[happylife]

You can't make her unhappy because when she's unhappy, you're unhappy. But it's okay for you to be sad. Then do you think she could be happy when you are sad?

It's quite a responsibility--actually, it can be heavy pressure--to know that your state of mind controls someone else's.

It would worsen the situation when someone else thinks you are the cause of their misery and expects you to do something about it. It's sad that some people don't seem to understand there's no better reason to refuse to do something than because you don't want to. I think not doing something because you don't want to shouldn't be confused with being cold and selfish.

[happylife]

I'm with Sally. The healthy response to a loved one being miserable is concern, not automatically joining their misery. That's just dependency, and adult dependants are a burden that the miserable rarely need.

I often feel that mood is contagious. Someone else's state of mind can affect you. You would feel more vulnerable when you feel you have caused or contributed to their pain even though you know it's not true logically but your heart sometimes tricks you.

It would be hard not to feel bad if your loved one was crying and shaking in the bathroom after sex(a normal consensual sex act carried out attentively) or if your partner got more and more depressed and started to curse their sexuality, look for ways to reduce sex drive and hate themselves as a sexual being. They may sound like unrealistic situations but I'd imagine these things can happen.

As long as you are capable of feeling, you get to feel.

[loving_partner]

Because she loves me, she's willing to even though she doesn't want it. Because she doesn't want it, it will never be fulfilling for me. I don't see any way around that.

If someone is having sex with me, making sure I don't experience pain, fully respecting my needs and wants, that is, making it simple and quick, then I don't think it's having their way with me and that they are being selfish. If anything, they are showing me they are a very patient and caring person.

Sex that is best described as "simple, quick and mostly painless" is not satisfying or fulfilling for either partner! You don't expect to be satisfied - you don't like the stuff and want to get it over with. But if you can't get into it, you can't be the equal partner in the sex act that your partner needs. Having an equal partner who is also into the act not only makes the physical sensations feel better, it also puts the partner into the right emotional place as well. Not having that makes for extremely unsatisfying sex, and for a sexual person unsatisfying sex is sometimes worse than no sex at all.

So your partner wants to respect your needs and wants because he does care, but your needs and wants are cross-wired to be the opposite of his own needs and wants. They can't both be met at the same time.

The irony I'm trying to point out is that a person who could reliably be satisfied in that situation, without the engagement of their partner, is very self-focused in their sexuality. They could reliably "get off" with an indifferent partner because they focus only on their own needs. But because they're self-focused, they probably wouldn't care if you were in pain - you don't matter to their experience, only they do. Knowing that, you wouldn't trust that kind of person enough to open up to that level of intimacy with them in the first place (or at least not more than once).

[loving_partner]

It would be hard not to feel bad if your loved one was crying and shaking in the bathroom after sex(a normal consensual sex act carried out attentively) or if your partner got more and more depressed and started to curse their sexuality, look for ways to reduce sex drive and hate themselves as a sexual being. They may sound like unrealistic situations but I'd imagine these things can happen.

As long as you are capable of feeling, you get to feel.

You're not only right, but I don't think those are unrealistic situations at all. Some of that hits uncomfortably close to home.

[Issac313]

Happylife, i appreciate the concern but i dont think i explained the situation well enough. she wasnt trying to rationalize sex for the sake of children, she was trying to do it for me. that was the only way she could see it as a shared experience. These are not things i am assuming. every thing i say i have talked over with her. I know that some asexuals are ok with things like kissing and sex but she is not one of them. she is the type that is disgusted by sex and physical contact. there is nothing i can do that pleases her.

as far as happiness goes its alittle different for me. I still have a great deal of control over my emotions since i got help for my personality. i can still stop some and encourage others at will. if only one of use can be happy then id choose her. as far as her feeling my emotions it wouldnt be a problem. as long as she is happy, i can make myself happy from that.

[hunter_gatherer]

Well, hello ya'll. Thanks for having this discussion. Before I found this site, I kept thinking that other people Must be having the same types of problems that I am having, but who the hell to talk to about them?

I read the older posts in this sticky thread, and immediately saw similarities, and even found myself finally putting words to the feelings I have had over the past 8 years. I am a sexual man, married to what appears to be an asexual woman. We have found ourselves to be compatible in all areas except the bedroom. I think that I have an original take on this, so bear with me.

Soon after we started dating, she began to experience real pain during sex. After a few years of her bearing it (because she thought it was what she was supposed to do) we found -- through doctor and counselling visits, that the body has ways of rebelling when you tell it to do things that it doesn't really want to do. I learned that we were both in a sort of denial about this -- we were both fairly sexual prior to meeting -- so it was hard to believe that we could be so incompatible in this way.

So my unique take on this (in addition to having all the feelings in the earlier posts -- hurt, not wanted, my fault, rejected, etc.) I can add the fact that I know it physically hurts her -- not in exactly a psycho-somatic way, but if you imagine damaged nerve endings that are triggered by certain emotions combined with penetration, then you can start to see what is going on in there.

Imagine all the feelings of love and respect and trust that I naturally have for her (and she has for me), and contrast that with being in the moment, knowing that I am about to hurt her, and then seeing her eyes "go dead" like someone earlier described. That is a truly horrible feeling. Sure I want to be desired, and sure I want the "special sauce" that lovemaking brings to a relationship... but it cannot come at that price.

So here we sit. Very hetero-romantic, and she (unaware of being asexual, but clearly so.) I think that there is a certain denial among "previous-sexuals" at being suddenly, or even cumulatively asexual -- So I am torn about asking her to come here. These sorts of conversations end up (despite a million re-assurances to the contrary) with her saying she is broken, and why don't I go have an affair (followed by tears and door-slamming.)

I am confused on all points. I am a loving, romantic, helpful, sharing, clean, respectful husband. I don't do bad things, yet I am denied the very thing that for the prior 15 years, was literally everything to me. I don't know how else to describe it to people who did not have a lot of very good sex for a long time... but there is no feeling like it. It was (mostly) safe, and nothing was promiscuous -- I remember being fairly serially monogamous (that ugly term again) and I always made sure that the woman I was with was made Very happy during our lovemaking. I have no problem telling you complete strangers that this was a fantastic feeling. I sought it out, I worked hard to get good at it, and to a person, we were all very happy doing it.

ejayo hit a lot of points in his post, but I have to say that it does feel abusive, inasmuch as i understand that term. I do not think that abusers are doing it for fun, but that some of them honestly do not realize that their behavior is tearing up the very person they love so much. In her implicit denial of this "latent-asexuality" (if I may coin that phrase) she often reminds me of how good sex was for her in college, or with other lovers -- how can she not realize that that is killing me?

We talk about this fairly intently, enough to have gotten past the trite her saying "you just want to have sex all the time" and me saying "it is not about penetration, it is about being desired by the one you love". Possible solutions have been proffered. I learned that she would like it "if it felt more romantic." This feels like an excuse for not wanting to do anything -- like "a headache" or "too tired" (which I also hear) I know for a fact that it is VERY romantic, and moreover, I like it that way too. I never was much for one-night things, and I truly appreciate the emotional connection that makes a hot sexual encounter really explode from the power of two highly-charged individuals at the peak of their physiological connectedness. So that is how I see it, so it is hardly surprising that I view that experience as one that leads to more emotional connection, and leads to more mind-blowing sex, and on and on in a wonderful cycle. I want it like I want air and food and water.

So i can hardly believe I have written all this so far... I actually have a question. What HAS worked? Let's say that divorce is out of the question. Stipulate further, that the auto-erotic avenues have been well-trodden, both alone and together. Has anyone "gone poly" and had it work out? I completely see how taking a lover would lessen the pressure on the relationship, but given my propensity to seek out that extra-hot emotional sex, then there is NO WAY that couldn't hurt our marriage.

Prostitutes are out -- the ultimate non-emotional sex. I have seriously considered getting involved with couples from time-to-time. The couple thing is intriguing since there is a wall there that would stop anything from getting too emotional, and I would not want to mess up anything they have. Truly, I don't want to mess up the connectedness that my wife and I have either, but it is .....seriously suffering. You A's must be sympathetic to the feelings she is having (not good enough, not a good wife, all her fault, "my poor husband", etc.)

What the hell to do? It defies logic that things could be so good and also so bad, at the same time.

[happylife]

Sex that is best described as "simple, quick and mostly painless" is not satisfying or fulfilling for either partner!

Not quite right. Not for either partner. But for the one that's desiring more.

But if you can't get into it, you can't be the equal partner in the sex act that your partner needs.

Depends on the partner I'm with. When I'm with someone sexually compatible with me I can do sex very comfortably and the other person enjoys the sex we have very much.

So your partner wants to respect your needs and wants because he does care, but your needs and wants are cross-wired to be the opposite of his own needs and wants. They can't both be met at the same time.

They can't both be met at the same time. So,, obviously the next step to take is??

The irony I'm trying to point out is that a person who could reliably be satisfied in that situation, without the engagement of their partner, is very self-focused in their sexuality. They could reliably "get off" with an indifferent partner because they focus only on their own needs. But because they're self-focused, they probably wouldn't care if you were in pain - you don't matter to their experience, only they do. Knowing that, you wouldn't trust that kind of person enough to open up to that level of intimacy with them in the first place (or at least not more than once).

If someone constantly tried to do various sexual things with me ignoring my request to make it brief I would think they are very self-focused and not easy to trust. I was not describing a rape situation. Your description resembles rape so I find it disturbing.

Maybe you feel frustrated now because I'm still sounding like I don't get your point. Please don't, loving_partner, I understand what you are trying to say.

[savemymarriage]

In thinking about it more, I think a big part of the issue for me is that regardless of how purely physical and superficial sex can sometimes seem, I believe that sex is much more than that and that there is a very spiritual and emotional side to it as well. I find myself able to be much more vulnerable and feel very connected to my wife during sex and would feel a big part of our relationship is missing without those times together. Not to mention the physical as well, don't get me wrong.

I guess the bottom line is that sex is a very complex thing and that it has a very complex role in a relationship. Talking about it is so important even when it is hard.

Thank you so much for your post. I am new to this site and this is my first response.

I am a sexual female married to "what I believe" to be an asexual husband.

You mentioned that sex can also be emotional and spiritual. For me, that would be an understatement. Without that connection, I feel a huge hole in me, in us, our marriage, and it is a very lonely place.

I really don't know how to replace that-snuggling is fine, but I feel like I am living with a room-mate that I can snuggle with.

We've been married 18 years. I hope to learn more, understand more, and hope that I can come to terms with the thought of not having that connection in my life. sudoko and watching movies won't cut it, I can do that with my friends.

I have one foot out of the door. . . Our marriage is hanging by threads. He has not admitted to being asexual. The subject actually hasn't come up. When the lack of sex in our marriage (nonexistent) comes up in our arguments, he just states that it's my fault. I've been hearing that for years. It's been a long & lonely 18 years. I truly hope I can change that by understanding more.

[savemymarriage]

[quote name='loving_partner' date='Jun 20 2009, 09:59 AM' post='1310503'

And it's not necessarily just sex - even if an asexual partner is willing to compromise and engage in the act that might not be enough. To quote a cheesy song, "I want you to want me, I need you to need me" - as a sexual, I need to feel desired. Sometimes I want to be pursued - sometimes I want my partner to be the initiator. And every time, I need to feel that she wants this and wants to be here with me. She may not be capable of that.

Thanks loving_partner, this is exactly the issue that has come up between my wife and I. I wonder how many of the other sexuals reading this board feel the same way?

I do, I do. I feel the same way!!!!